Trouble with Teens

[Think About It....]

It's hard to explain things to a 12yo and I wonder if she is just being an (almost) teenaged girl.

dBPDmom has a new boyfriend and I'm actually a bit proud of her because she has taken a different route this time.  DH has been very vocal about the numerous men that BM has exposed the girls to... lived with, dated, kicked out, moved back in, etc. BM's usual pattern is to jump in with both feet to the relationship and paint DH black.  She has not done it this time. Instead, she is calling DH or myself to pick up the girls when she has dinner plans or weekend trips or whatever. Rather than taking the girls around yet another fella.  The girls have voiced the desire to be picked up by their dad rather than be a part of the plans that involve the boyfriend.  BM has been very cooperative about trying to take it slow and not force this guy down their throats like she has in the past. (Good on her )  
 
However it seems that SD12 has decided that her mom "only cares about her boyfriend." I tried to explain to her that this is not true, and that mom is trying to balance time with her and her sisters along with this new relationship and isn't she glad that she is giving her the choice this time? She thinks mom should want to spend time with her and her sisters... I told her that she should talk to her mom about how she feels, because mom may not even realize that SD feels this way. "Yeah right..." was her response.

I, myself, had a similar conversation with my 13yo son just a week ago. He was mad at me because I got lost (stupid MapQuest) on my way to his football game where he made his very FIRST touchdown as a Quarterback (he's 3rd string). He let me know just how disappointed he was in me and that I should've been there. Accused me of "not caring".  I had a very candid conversation with him and reminded him of the other HUNDREDS of soccer, baseball, basketball, and whatever games I had been to and if my attendance to those had been negated by this ONE game that I inadvertantly had missed out on. I also questioned if he really believed that I did not "care"... if my actions (as his mom) really suggested that I did not absolutely adore him and care very much about him. In his typical teenage style, he replied with... "I guess"   

I can't speak for dBPDmom. Her actions don't always suggest that she "cares" in the traditional sense... I know and understand that she's just being who she is and is loving her daughters the only way she knows how. I just don't know how to convey that to my SD12 all the while trying to figure out if she's just being dramatic in her own little "typical" way. She's the oldest stepdaughter and only a year younger than my oldest... so I really am learning all the way around.

Thoughts?

[DreamGirl]

It's hard to explain things to a 12yo and I wonder if she is just being an (almost) teenaged girl.

dBPDmom has a new boyfriend and I'm actually a bit proud of her because she has taken a different route this time.  DH has been very vocal about the numerous men that BM has exposed the girls to... lived with, dated, kicked out, moved back in, etc. BM's usual pattern is to jump in with both feet to the relationship and paint DH black.  She has not done it this time. Instead, she is calling DH or myself to pick up the girls when she has dinner plans or weekend trips or whatever. Rather than taking the girls around yet another fella.  The girls have voiced the desire to be picked up by their dad rather than be a part of the plans that involve the boyfriend.  BM has been very cooperative about trying to take it slow and not force this guy down their throats like she has in the past. (Good on her )  
 
However it seems that SD12 has decided that her mom "only cares about her boyfriend." I tried to explain to her that this is not true, and that mom is trying to balance time with her and her sisters along with this new relationship and isn't she glad that she is giving her the choice this time? She thinks mom should want to spend time with her and her sisters... I told her that she should talk to her mom about how she feels, because mom may not even realize that SD feels this way. "Yeah right..." was her response.

I, myself, had a similar conversation with my 13yo son just a week ago. He was mad at me because I got lost (stupid MapQuest) on my way to his football game where he made his very FIRST touchdown as a Quarterback (he's 3rd string). He let me know just how disappointed he was in me and that I should've been there. Accused me of "not caring".  I had a very candid conversation with him and reminded him of the other HUNDREDS of soccer, baseball, basketball, and whatever games I had been to and if my attendance to those had been negated by this ONE game that I inadvertantly had missed out on. I also questioned if he really believed that I did not "care"... if my actions (as his mom) really suggested that I did not absolutely adore him and care very much about him. In his typical teenage style, he replied with... "I guess"   

I can't speak for dBPDmom. Her actions don't always suggest that she "cares" in the traditional sense... I know and understand that she's just being who she is and is loving her daughters the only way she knows how. I just don't know how to convey that to my SD12 all the while trying to figure out if she's just being dramatic in her own little "typical" way. She's the oldest stepdaughter and only a year younger than my oldest... so I really am learning all the way around.

Thoughts?

[ifsogirl26]

I don't have teens but I was one 

I used to tell my mom that she cared more about my younger brother than me. Now I just think that he was easier to deal with than I was. My poor mom used to get so upset that I thought that. When I got older we had it all out on the table and came to a better understanding of eachother. I wasn't fair to her and sometimes she wasn't fair to me. But I realize now that she did the very best she could and she was a loving, giving mom that I was lucky to have. It wasn't her fault that I had issues and acted out. It was just easier to blame her when I was a teen.

Your SD probably has some legitiamate reasons to feel what she does. I never really responded well to grownups telling me to appreciate my parents more but I did remember that I was told that and I agree now with it. Its good that she shares it with someone. I had a great mom who made minimal mistakes and I still felt slighted by her. Your SD has a difficult mom that makes a lot of mistakes and she loves her but I am sure she will have bad feelings towards her during the teen years. Maybe she will grow up to forgive what the things that her mom didn;t do and understand why.

Its always more complicated than just "mom only cares about her BF" I am sure that SD knows this can't be all true. Do you think that BM is spending a lot less time with SD now that new BF is in the picture? Does she have reasons to feel this at all? Maybe you can see that BM is at least not subjecting SD to BF but SD will see that BM is choosing to spend more time with BF than SD and that hurts. I can see how she feels.

[ifsogirl26]

Oh and I wanted to add that when you told SD that "its not true that BM only cares about BF" You were totally invalidating SD feelings!
Validating is not only for those with BPD its for all of us. I think having a validating conversation with SD will help alot. AND with your son. Sometimes we want to prove why others are wrong and give them evidence (ok alot of the time) but that ignores that what they are feeling is real and important.

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[DreamGirl]

Your SD probably has some legitiamate reasons to feel what she does. I never really responded well to grownups telling me to appreciate my parents more but I did remember that I was told that and I agree now with it. Its good that she shares it with someone. I had a great mom who made minimal mistakes and I still felt slighted by her. Your SD has a difficult mom that makes a lot of mistakes and she loves her but I am sure she will have bad feelings towards her during the teen years. Maybe she will grow up to forgive what the things that her mom didn;t do and understand why.

This makes a lot of sense. Her mom tends to hyperfocus on new BFs. It's not that she doesn't love her daughters and is "picking" him over them... I think she just feels safer in her role with them. I've had my own thoughts that mom will let the rest of the world stop when a new beau comes around.   I sometimes feel like mom can't do right no matter what she does when it comes to SD12 (and even DH sometimes). SD12 got mad at her mom when she didn't allow her to spend the night at a friends house on a weekend she wasn't supposed to have her (DH was out of town), stating that she wanted to spend time with her. I feel like SD is justified at times and sometimes not so much.

Its always more complicated than just "mom only cares about her BF" I am sure that SD knows this can't be all true. Do you think that BM is spending a lot less time with SD now that new BF is in the picture? Does she have reasons to feel this at all? Maybe you can see that BM is at least not subjecting SD to BF but SD will see that BM is choosing to spend more time with BF than SD and that hurts. I can see how she feels.

It comes across as feast or famine to me. When she is in her SuperMom (my favorite of her cycles by the way ) mode, all focus is on the girls and the girls really love it and crave the attention.  I think it's hurtful when she stops.

Oh and I wanted to add that when you told SD that "its not true that BM only cares about BF" You were totally invalidating SD feelings!
Validating is not only for those with BPD its for all of us. I think having a validating conversation with SD will help alot. AND with your son. Sometimes we want to prove why others are wrong and give them evidence (ok alot of the time) but that ignores that what they are feeling is real and important.

Good catch!  x

[boarderchic]

I can't speak for dBPDmom. Her actions don't always suggest that she "cares" in the traditional sense... I know and understand that she's just being who she is and is loving her daughters the only way she knows how. I just don't know how to convey that to my SD12 all the while trying to figure out if she's just being dramatic in her own little "typical" way. She's the oldest stepdaughter and only a year younger than my oldest... so I really am learning all the way around.

I think this is difficult because while a kid with "normal" parents might occassionally come out with the "you don't care about me" stuff, as your S did, with those kids you can actually point out that the overall behavior of the parent does not support this idea.  But with a kid of a BPD, you can't really point that out, because the overall behavior of the parent does support that idea.  I suspect your SD doesn't feel that her mother doesn't care only because she's spending time with the new BF, but that is just the straw that broke the camel's back, if you will. 

I struggled a lot as a kid with whether or not my mom cared.  Like your SD's biomom, my mom's actions, well, never suggested she cared in the traditional sense...or any other sense.  So when people tried to convince me she really did love me it was very confusing and difficult.  I had a very difficult time resolving her treatment of me with the idea that she really loved me.  It made it difficult for me to understand love in general, actually.  After all, if mom could treat me so terribly but still loved me (implication being I should try to understand, not take it personally, mom just loves me in the only way she can), then what is love?  Shouldn't actions be connected to the feeling?  Does love mean I should put up with bad treatment?  How do you show love?  Is it just words you say?  Love just seemed like something meant to obligate me to someone and make me feel guilty.  I didn't see many positives coming from love, honestly.  It was so confusing...and now I view her feelings more as NEED than LOVE.  She needed me, but she didn't really love me by any definition of love I could fathom. 

It comes across as feast or famine to me. When she is in her SuperMom (my favorite of her cycles by the way  ) mode, all focus is on the girls and the girls really love it and crave the attention.  I think it's hurtful when she stops.

My mom did this too.  When I was younger, I loved it, too.  After a while, I didn't feel loved during these stages either.  I recognized her SuperMom act as more for her benefit than for mine.  In the end, I didn't feel any of her actions were loving, and therefore I didn't feel she loved me.  It was easier to live with her during SuperMom phase, however, and I'd take it over Raging Beast phase any day

[DreamGirl]

Hey there my sweet boarderchic...  x

I struggled a lot as a kid with whether or not my mom cared.  Like your SD's biomom, my mom's actions, well, never suggested she cared in the traditional sense...or any other sense.  So when people tried to convince me she really did love me it was very confusing and difficult.  I had a very difficult time resolving her treatment of me with the idea that she really loved me.  It made it difficult for me to understand love in general, actually.  After all, if mom could treat me so terribly but still loved me (implication being I should try to understand, not take it personally, mom just loves me in the only way she can), then what is love?  Shouldn't actions be connected to the feeling?  Does love mean I should put up with bad treatment?  How do you show love?  Is it just words you say?  Love just seemed like something meant to obligate me to someone and make me feel guilty.  I didn't see many positives coming from love, honestly.  It was so confusing...and now I view her feelings more as NEED than LOVE.  She needed me, but she didn't really love me by any definition of love I could fathom. 

I can see how it would be confusing. I have a hard time wrapping my head around it sometimes. I feel like their mom loves them... very much. Her outlook on love and relationships may be blurry as well, stemming from her childhood.  I can see in her own mom's (the girls Grandma) behavior and relationship with her daughter some dysfunction going on there as well.

I think sometimes I'm focusing on making sure that SDs know that they are worthy of love (just like you boarderchic ).  I want the girls to understand that because someone doesn't live up to our expectations of what we think they should be... doesn't mean it's a reflection of ourselves. Does that make sense?

My mom did this too.  When I was younger, I loved it, too.  After a while, I didn't feel loved during these stages either.  I recognized her SuperMom act as more for her benefit than for mine.  In the end, I didn't feel any of her actions were loving, and therefore I didn't feel she loved me.  It was easier to live with her during SuperMom phase, however, and I'd take it over Raging Beast phase any day

Oh boarderchic.  x

I feel like the girls' mom does care, her priorities just get jaded. I think it's hard for them because they have an idea what she is capable of, and wish for her to be like that all the time... but can't grasp why she can't be.

I just want to help them work thru it and hold onto their self worth without feeding into the dramatics. My SD12 is very capable of being a DramaQueen... as are her little sisters. I've witnessed them make it sound like the world is coming to an end over a lost pair of earrings. 

   DreamGirl

[boarderchic]

Hey there my sweet boarderchic...  x

I think sometimes I'm focusing on making sure that SDs know that they are worthy of love (just like you boarderchic ).  I want the girls to understand that because someone doesn't live up to our expectations of what we think they should be... doesn't mean it's a reflection of ourselves. Does that make sense?

This makes total sense and it is a great way to approach this really confusing issue.  This approach would not have made me resentful at all and would have helped me understand that no matter how my mom behaved or what she really felt, love or not, it didn't matter - it wasn't a reflection of me that she acted the way she did and I was not inherently unlovable nor was I the cause of her acting inappropriately.  That is a key message that kids of BPDs need to hear and internalize.  Because I understood this intelectually - but really internalizing it took a lot longer.  Validation speeds that process up a lot.   

Oh boarderchic.  x

I feel like the girls' mom does care, her priorities just get jaded. I think it's hard for them because they have an idea what she is capable of, and wish for her to be like that all the time... but can't grasp why she can't be.

I just want to help them work thru it and hold onto their self worth without feeding into the dramatics. My SD12 is very capable of being a DramaQueen... as are her little sisters. I've witnessed them make it sound like the world is coming to an end over a lost pair of earrings. 

   DreamGirl

LOL - I know just what you mean about thinking the world is coming to an end over earrings!  As a teen, I could act that way if I couldn't find a shirt, or a variety of other small and insignificant things.  The dramatics lessened as soon as I left home and I realize now that they were a result of constant anxiety due to BPD momster.  Because I was on such edge all the time, it only took a small insignificant frustration to push me into full melt-down mode, even if I didn't seem especially anxious or stressed.  Plus, my BPD mom broke down at insignificant things too, so I thought those were normal reactions.  It's probably not easy to be on the receiving end though!  But hopefully your SD's will lose the drama as they get older and don't have to deal with momster so much.  I have never had a melt-down since I left my mom's house, and I have gotten much better at dealing with the small aggravations of life.  Your modeling non-dramatic behavior also helps - it definitely helped me to see my husband and his family not respond so outrageously to minor problems. 

I think you rock and are doing great.  I'm sure your SD's see your efforts to help them, and I bet the messages you are trying to send are getting through, even if you don't see it right now.   x 

[marlo6277]

However it seems that SD12 has decided that her mom "only cares about her boyfriend." I tried to explain to her that this is not true, and that mom is trying to balance time with her and her sisters along with this new relationship and isn't she glad that she is giving her the choice this time? She thinks mom should want to spend time with her and her sisters... I told her that she should talk to her mom about how she feels, because mom may not even realize that SD feels this way. "Yeah right..." was her response.

All I can say is UGH.  I know what you mean when you say that you want them to understand that not everyone lives up to our expectations, but it doesn't mean that they are not loved.  I get that totally. 

But mom's actions are obviously communicating a different message to your poor SD12.  Unfortunately, we are not there to see all the other stuff that mom perhaps is doing (or not doing as the case may be).  And perhaps your SD is using this as a means of opening a bigger conversation with you or her dad.  This is something that perhaps she thinks you can see and vouch for her on - mom is spending time with her boyfriend instead of letting SD have her time with mom.   

My skids have been noticing this for quite some time with their mom.  She tells them that she loves them. Tells them how she 'misses them so' when they are not there, even goes so far as to say "I lock their bedroom doors when they are not here as I just can't bare to know that they are not with me". 

HOWEVER - she up and left and moved to England for 8 months and didn't see them once in that time.  (This was immediately before DH and her separated and subsequently divorced).  THEN - she tells them how she loves them and can't bare to be away from them, but they go to her house and she pawns them off on family members as she "needs a break".  THEN - she tells DH to keep them and put them in school in our district and she will see them on weekends because her boyfriend doesn't want them around, so she decided that in order to keep her man, she will let go of the children that apparently she "would do anything for". 

The kids hear one thing and see another.  She tells them how her "heart is so empty" and how she "cries everytime they leave cuz she misses them so", and then has more children with this boyfriend and then explains to the kids how she doesn't have time for them because of the new siblings.

OSD caught on a while ago - sure mommy says she loves me, but she doesn't show it. 

Perhaps your SD is starting to feel the same way. From a 12 yr old perspective that is (let's face it - all about me, me, me at that age) is likely looking at it like this - why can't she go out at night with her boyfriend when I'm at Dad and DGs?  Why does she have to go out when I'm there and then I don't get to see her and her boyfriend is the cause of it.  Sure she was instead allowed to spend extra time with you and your DH, but perhaps your SD would just like her mom's undivided attention, that she is percieving the new boyfriend is getting and she is getting tossed by the wayside.  (in her eyes) 

Yes, it's absolutely awesome that her mom is not subjecting her to a barrage of different boyfriends, etc...but in turn, she perceives it as missing out on her mom's time that perhaps she also sees it as her mother would rather spend time with him, instead of her when her time with her mom is limited enough as it is.

I also truly get that she is loving her daughter the best and perhaps - only way - that she knows how, but clearly your SD has issues with how she is being loved and being shown love.  I think it is fantastic that she continually - time and again - chooses you and your DH to speak to.  God only knows that if every child had just one person in their lives that they could depend on and trust with their thoughts and feelings, I think the world would be a different place for them.  It totally rocks that she chooses you so often.  Big responsibility for a stepmom because of the kid gloves that we need to use to handle such situation (no pun intended). 
 
Suggestion - next time she makes such a statement, perhaps ask her why she feels that way.  Then ask her how she would rather have the situation play out instead.  My guess is that she will probably say something like - I wish that she would just spend time with me.  Or "I wish that she would just see him when I was visiting you guys".  Then that provides you the opportunity to then pose some questions to her - Have you mentioned this to your mom? Would you consider letting her know your feelings? Why or why not? Do you think your mom knows how you feel about it? Why or why not?

You can't solve the problem for her, but even just reminding her that you love having her at your house and that she is always welcome there will no doubt add some comfort to her.  And you can even remind her that your feelings are not hurt that she just wants to spend time with her mom.  You can understand how it would make her sad, but she should always know that she is welcome to come and hang with her stepmom, too - and you'll do your best to cover up the hairy stepmother wart!

[blackandwhite]

Hi DreamGirl,

I read this thread a day or more ago and have been thinking about it ever since. First I wanted to say how much your love for your SDs shines through. That's making all the difference in the world.

The other thing that stands out is that your SD is employing black and white thinking. Either mom loves BF and doesn't love me, or mom loves me and doesn't love BF. You can work on shades of gray with her, without invalidating that it is indeed hurtful to SD when mom chooses to spend time with BF and not SD.

But I do see a bigger context, as all have noted already on this thread. SD's teens probably will be rough. She has the usual stuff, plus a whole extra layer of crazy to deal with. It sounds like she's a "truth teller," or at least is at this age. She's pointing out what's obvious to her. She's naming it, and that's actually a really good thing. Maybe you could work with that quality, that urge to name things for what they are? Hearing her complaints about her mom and your concern that she know she's worthy of love, you might if this comes up again talk to her about what she thinks love is. There are lots of definitions, what's SD's, now at least? Let her know that this is a work in progress and that her definition might change over time. You can talk to her about your definition. You can talk to her about how it's important to define what you feel is needed in a relationship based on love, and look for people who share your values and are able to build those kinds of relationships. That other definitions aren't necessarily wrong, but you should know and feel calm and confident about your definition and what you feel you deserve in a loving relationship. You can validate that she does indeed deserve those things, and you can turn back on her any questions about whether her mother provides those things. If she says, no, she doesn't, you can validate her feelings about that without necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with what she's said.

It was very liberating to me to realize, when I was MUCH older than your SD, that I could decide for myself what love was. My uBPD mother believed it was one thing--me sacrificing myself to her to the point of self-annihilation. I realized, luckily, it was something else for me. There was a thread a while back on the coping with relatives board about whether the members there loved their BPD parent. It's coming from the other side, both in perspective (the child's) and time (the child as adult). But it might make interesting reading in light of your SD's feelings right now: http://BPDfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=86429.0.

It's great to see your parenting in action, DreamGirl. 

B&W

[DreamGirl]

Suggestion - next time she makes such a statement, perhaps ask her why she feels that way.  Then ask her how she would rather have the situation play out instead.  My guess is that she will probably say something like - I wish that she would just spend time with me.  Or "I wish that she would just see him when I was visiting you guys".  Then that provides you the opportunity to then pose some questions to her - Have you mentioned this to your mom? Would you consider letting her know your feelings? Why or why not? Do you think your mom knows how you feel about it? Why or why not?

I think this is a really good idea. We've been down this road in the past. I think it boils down to SD just wanting to have some one on one time with mom.  As much as she would like to, I'm not sure that mom can fulfill this want of SDs. Mom places a lot of value in her romantic relationships because this part of her life is very validating to her. It gives her a sense of worth.  She can't quite figure out how to exist without a boyfriend. We've all encouraged her time and time again to evaluate this in herself, but old habits are hard to break.

I think my skids' BPDmom really lacks the capabilty to balance between being a mom and a girlfriend (which isn't all that unique, I struggle with this balance as well), but often will attempt to do the right thing. She listened to DH and discussed the entourage of men that the girls were witnessing and agreed that an alternative solution be offered. This was probably very difficult for BM to admit and concede to... DH was very validating and understanding as not to make her feel like she was being criticized (which really she wasn't). They both agreed that mistakes had been made in the past and that in the interest of the girls that BM be allowed a little room to date this new fella without involving the girls.

SD12 just perceives it differently and I believe is taking it personally. She doesn't understand and it is hard for me to explain to her. SD12 also is accusatory in her approach when talking with her mom which has mom throwing up her defenses. When SD has talked with her mom in the past about this subject, a common reply has been "I can't live my life for you, SD12... I deserve a life too." I've had discussions about this with SD and have encouraged her to own only her own feelings when talking with mom... but she's only 12 and I don't know how well she's processing all of what we talk about. I think SD is conflicted a lot of the time. I know she loves her mom but she feels let down in certain aspects and doesn't know how to confront the person who is causing certain conflicts without being angry... and in return is being met with anger.

They're a lot alike really.

[DreamGirl]

The other thing that stands out is that your SD is employing black and white thinking. Either mom loves BF and doesn't love me, or mom loves me and doesn't love BF. You can work on shades of gray with her, without invalidating that it is indeed hurtful to SD when mom chooses to spend time with BF and not SD.

I see this too. I wonder though if it isn't just because she's 12. Just like my 13yo exhibited the same. My son also has zero accountability and blames me for everything wrong in his life right now. I'm pretty sure my mindset was geared in that general direction at their age as well.

However, I also know and accept that there is a pretty good chance that one or all of my SDs will struggle with having some BPD-like traits. As a contstant, I am trying to counteract some of the behavior that seems to trickle down. I also am aware that it's just part of being immature as well. We do a whole lot of talking and analyzing in my household. It's exhausting.   ;p

It sounds like she's a "truth teller," or at least is at this age. She's pointing out what's obvious to her. She's naming it, and that's actually a really good thing. Maybe you could work with that quality, that urge to name things for what they are? Hearing her complaints about her mom and your concern that she know she's worthy of love, you might if this comes up again talk to her about what she thinks love is. There are lots of definitions, what's SD's, now at least? Let her know that this is a work in progress and that her definition might change over time. You can talk to her about your definition. You can talk to her about how it's important to define what you feel is needed in a relationship based on love, and look for people who share your values and are able to build those kinds of relationships. That other definitions aren't necessarily wrong, but you should know and feel calm and confident about your definition and what you feel you deserve in a loving relationship. You can validate that she does indeed deserve those things, and you can turn back on her any questions about whether her mother provides those things. If she says, no, she doesn't, you can validate her feelings about that without necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with what she's said.

I think for me, it goes back to the whole idea of "what's right for me". Showing and defining love is different for all of us... as is accepting when people can't show us love sometimes like we want them to. Yet we still deserve to love and be loved just the same. I'm learning this very thing myself actually.

There was a thread a while back on the coping with relatives board about whether the members there loved their BPD parent. It's coming from the other side, both in perspective (the child's) and time (the child as adult). But it might make interesting reading in light of your SD's feelings right now: http://BPDfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=86429.0.

This was heart wrenching for me to read, and eye opening as well. Thank you so much for this, B&W.