"I" needed a time out

[Think About It...]

Sometimes we need to step away for our own sakes...

Being a single parent with a live in bf can be stressful under normal circumstances. Adding in BPD to the mix can make it really fun   

** brutal honesty here **
I'm not the cleanest person you'll ever meet. I can easily overlook many minor messes for short periods of time. My kids are learning from my example  ;p   While for the most part this doesn't bother my bf, there are times when he begins to feel bad inside (who knows why) so he all of the sudden begins to complain about how no one cleans up after themselves. This quickly turns into a critical listing of all the things my children do wrong around the house, and if I allow it, he'll toss in plenty of character assassinations with that.

Hearing my children being critiqued and degraded and having my parenting skills listed as being poor has the tendency to make me a little defensive...

And we know how well getting defensive works for us when we use it on someone who suffers from BPD... 

Bear in mind, this is a phone conversation...So he starts off with small things, but quickly builds up steam. I can feel my resentment building and my desire to counter attack him on HIS cleaning skills. I try to grit out a empathetic statement, but I know it is not heartfelt. As he gathers momentum, you can tell he is getting more and more worked up. I know I can stop it with just a few words of empathy and validation, but I can't get the words out of my mouth due to my own anger and resentment. When I realize that he is now totally dysregulated and that I am too, I end the conversation.

I know that my own feelings and emotions are going to get in the way of anything I say, and that being upset isn't the best time to discuss these kind of things. The time out isn't just for him - it's for me too.

While I hate hearing him be so critical, he does have a lot of points - we could all be a lot cleaner, esp my youngest (12S). I could pay more attention to guiding them to pick up after themselves. The fact that it isn't a major priority of mine, nor his much of the time, creates an atmosphere of inconsistency though, that leads to rebellion when applied to children. This adds to the lovely toxic mix of seething resentments and misunderstandings.

I didn't call him at all yesterday, since I was still struggling with how he delivered his message. I plan to today. This time, I will make sure that I practice the skills and comm techniques that will prevent this from getting worse, and that will work to make things better.


 

[united for now]

Sometimes we need to step away for our own sakes...

Being a single parent with a live in bf can be stressful under normal circumstances. Adding in BPD to the mix can make it really fun   

** brutal honesty here **
I'm not the cleanest person you'll ever meet. I can easily overlook many minor messes for short periods of time. My kids are learning from my example  ;p   While for the most part this doesn't bother my bf, there are times when he begins to feel bad inside (who knows why) so he all of the sudden begins to complain about how no one cleans up after themselves. This quickly turns into a critical listing of all the things my children do wrong around the house, and if I allow it, he'll toss in plenty of character assassinations with that.

Hearing my children being critiqued and degraded and having my parenting skills listed as being poor has the tendency to make me a little defensive...

And we know how well getting defensive works for us when we use it on someone who suffers from BPD... 

Bear in mind, this is a phone conversation...So he starts off with small things, but quickly builds up steam. I can feel my resentment building and my desire to counter attack him on HIS cleaning skills. I try to grit out a empathetic statement, but I know it is not heartfelt. As he gathers momentum, you can tell he is getting more and more worked up. I know I can stop it with just a few words of empathy and validation, but I can't get the words out of my mouth due to my own anger and resentment. When I realize that he is now totally dysregulated and that I am too, I end the conversation.

I know that my own feelings and emotions are going to get in the way of anything I say, and that being upset isn't the best time to discuss these kind of things. The time out isn't just for him - it's for me too.

While I hate hearing him be so critical, he does have a lot of points - we could all be a lot cleaner, esp my youngest (12S). I could pay more attention to guiding them to pick up after themselves. The fact that it isn't a major priority of mine, nor his much of the time, creates an atmosphere of inconsistency though, that leads to rebellion when applied to children. This adds to the lovely toxic mix of seething resentments and misunderstandings.

I didn't call him at all yesterday, since I was still struggling with how he delivered his message. I plan to today. This time, I will make sure that I practice the skills and comm techniques that will prevent this from getting worse, and that will work to make things better.


 

[DragoN]

   
Time out = beautiful creation for both parties.

It does suck when there are the grains of truth in there though...*sigh* guilty of the same thing. Little messes don't freak me out, but my H has an eagle eye for anything out of place...but heaven help me if he actually does something about it. that would be nice...rather he harangues about it, I grind my heels into the dirt ...and well I am better now. Not perfect. But better.

Could it have been something else that was really eating at him? It was just a convenient excuse to unload on you about another problem? 

[united for now]

Most likely... blue is never really blue - if ya know what I mean  ;p

[dados76]

ya... not usually out of the blue.. i think sometimes its harder to validate sometimes when they do have a point.. for me anyway.. b/c i just want to be the right.. sane.. one.. so its hard for me sometimes to hear his point..

[united for now]

I agree  ;p

Having our own faults shoved in our faces doesn't feel too good, making it doubly hard to find the desire to validate theirs 

[DragoN]

yeah...hmmm...owning one's faults is not a bad thing. Accepting them and making changes if it is important enough to do so...and time and energy allowing for it.

Running around like a chicken with it's head cut off to appease the Cleanliness Beast...is not always one of them. Although...when I am guilty, I am guilty.

So...make a plan of attack on that. May not be perfect...but that's ok. House work is always a work in process... which I loathe but...it's necessary.

The best defense with my H when he rags at me about the house : You know something, you're Right. You made a fair point. I'll do my best.
  if it's still not good enough...get off yer arse and help. <---kept to self.  

[dea0328]

It's the opposite with H and I. He's the messy one but I don't fuss about it. However, I can relate to how you felt when he was criticizing your kids and your parenting. I have so been there. And it is extremely hard not to get defensive. But you're absolutely right, time out is the best thing to do. I need to remember that.

[briefcase]

Hi UFN,

I'm going to stray from the usual playbook here, and wonder out loud about something that has been on my mind. 

Genuine validation in the context of an unpleasant or unfair conversation isn't always possible.  I have also tried to "grit out" something empathic when I wasn't feeling very empathic.  It does not work in my marriage.  At best, my "validation" has no effect.  At worst, it can inflame the situation and lead to charges that I am acting condescending or patronizing. (BTW, the Fruzetti lecture was a great explanation of the various ways to validate, thanks). 

Overall, validation is a great strategy to improve a relationship over time.

Tactically, in any given situation, I am wondering if sometimes we need to allow ourselves some room to express a little righteous anger in the form of a firm and immediate rebuke (no yelling, name calling, shaming or other abuse, just a good firm statement of our displeasure about a boundary violation). 

In your situation, I think, your bf is well aware of your boundaries when it comes to the way he criticizes your kids.  It's not like this is the first time you have had to discuss this issue with him, right?  If not, I agree the proper thing to do is let the situation calm and then explain your boundaries in this area later.

Assuming you already staked out your turf in this area, why not send up a quick flare when he crosses your trip wire?  Something like: "I feel like this conversation is heading towards a rant about my kids.  We've talked about how that makes me feel and you know I won't listen to it."  Or even something more or less forceful depending on the situation.  Would that have been better, for you, rather than trying to express empathy when you felt anger?

I'm not advocating for endless arguments or needless escalation.  I just think sometimes we need to be assertive and forceful in the moment, make an initial stand to see what happens.  We can always call a time out if things start to slip again.   

I am very curious what your thoughts are on this approach. Thanks.

[briefcase]

Also, did you call him?  I am curious about the follow up with him.  I have a natural tendency to say (to myself) that I will follow up later on these types of issues, and then never get around to doing it.  I am getting better about this though.   

[united for now]

Some good thoughts on this briefcase 

Our own emotions can get in the way of validating, that's why it's best to take a time out - for yourself (which is what I did). Trying to feel something you aren't feeling is torture. Trying to make yourself do something you don't feel like doing is torture - even if it is the right thing to do. If you aren't feeling it - then don't do it.

So yes, we may need to allow ourselves some room and some space/time. We don't have to respond right away. They may want us to, but we have the right to say "not right now" or "I'll get back to you on that later", even "I'm not sure right now. Give me a little bit to think about it".

He is aware of how touchy I am on this, so when I told him I needed to go, he didn't try arguing, since he was aware that he had gone too far. That is my boundary, and my enforcement is "I won't discuss my kids when you become negative and harsh", so I either leave the room or I hang up. This isn't done in a screaming or FU kind of way, it is done with calm deliberateness on my part. That makes it easier later on to pick it up again and not have bad feelings on either side.

** I did call him **
He brought it up quickly, giving  me the "I know you don't like hearing that stuff, but I have a right to not be tripping over all their stuff too. It's been long enough that by now they should know what to do" speech. I offered him validation and showed him that I was listening and that his words were important to me. My words helped him stay calm, while my actions of not talking to him for a day and a half sent the message that his previous delivery wasn't the right way to get through to me.

[ifsogirl26]

We are messy too!

Sometimes he gets triggered by a mess and gets upset with me. I was sick recently and he wanted me to change the litterbox and I asked him to do it. He got upset. I told him that he was being abusive the way he was talking to me and since I was really sick and couldn't move then I needed him to back off and either do it himself or wait till I felt better.

He grumbled, did it himself and later apologized.

I really want to sometimes tell him off. He is as messy or more actually than me. But he feels like he can complain. I don't ever complain. Just clean up and ask him to do a specific thing which he will do usually.
Its weird he has this thing about not throwing stuff in the trash. He will leave all sorts of trash on the counter next to the trash can. SO when I get home from work I walk around and throw away all the trash strewn about the kitchen. WHY can't he do this. Oh well. I actually laugh about it now. I know I have certain bad habits that I do that I am probably not going to change and he has his. I can live with it.

I would love for him not to complain either. Just to clean if it bothers him. The complaining and triggering has gone done since I won't listen to anything mean from him. Its like he is venting but he is slowly learning that that kind of venting I won't stick around for.
We are pretty equal with what we can tolerate.

I take time outs too. They are really important. When he gets going about something that triggers me, I will tell him I will talk to him later or step away for a while.

[briefcase]

He brought it up quickly, giving  me the "I know you don't like hearing that stuff, but I have a right to not be tripping over all their stuff too. It's been long enough that by now they should know what to do" speech.

Funny, this is how it usually happens in my house too.  She knows she went too far and brings the issue back up, after the dust settles, before I bring the topic up.  There is never really an apology, just a half-a$$ justification for why she "had to" say or do what she said or did.  I am left with a vague feeling that I didn't address the issue to my complete satisfaction.  Curious what you think about this dynamic UFN. 

Is there a more satisfactory way?  Or, am I waiting for the   to bark?

Hope you don't mind I dusted a few days dust off this thread!

[an0ught]

I try to grit out a empathetic statement, but I know it is not heartfelt.

That is the crux, you are only human - sometimes tired, upset etc.. I have similar problems cropping up all the time when uBPDw insists the flat is dirty and messy especially the socks in the drawer.   Any attempt to convey a sense of balance or grey to her result in increasing rage. Grey is not a color that goes well with BPDs.

For cleanliness I sometimes try to reflect to her an even worse state than she described - occasionally it helps. But there are some topics where I just can't bring it over myself to utter those words. I could imagine that validating him feeling the overall cleanliness of the house is like a pig stable is not so hard - but validating that your children are the pigs roaming in the stable is. Whatever it is - some areas in our mind are so sacrosanct that we struggle with validating our SO's feelings - our sense of fundamental truths and obvious facts gets in the way.

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