Red flags? More like semi-transparent, light pink, cellophane flags?

[Think About It...]

Many posts talk about the early red flags they see, in retrospect, when analyzing HOW they got in such a relationship. Over 3 years ago I met a guy who seemed the dead opposite of all the unstable (and/or alchoholic) men I'd dated in the past. He had a great job with a top magazine (had been there over a year) did not drink, was down-to-earth and seemed to truly enjoy the simple things in life. Our taste in film & art was identical and he had a very gentle, patient nature. There was no "instant obsession" on his part - our pacing in the beginning was mutually mellow - both on the same wavelength and felt such comfort & ease around eachother.

The only red flag I can look back on now was this - a vagueness about him whenever conversation started getting introspective. With everyone else I become close to, this is usually the major bonding time - to really start to know & trust eachother. Plus its FUN, like opening a treasure chest of the dark and light, similar and unique, etc. But with my bf, his responses, even in the "honeymoon phase", were always subtley at arms length, like he was sometimes making stuff up, contradict feelings/facts from previous conversations, or I could just TELL he was saying what he wanted me to hear at times. There was just a...VACANCY. A warm, accomidating vacancy, but a vacancy nontheless - . He is a very intelligent person with a capacity for abstract thought (he's an amazing visual artist and musician) yet when it comes to talking about HIMSELF, when he didn't seem to be struggeling to piece a simple opinion/thought together, what he could say clearly was often negative, self effacing or critical of others (boss, parents, brother, exes, etc). After the 1st few months I began to realize the guy almost never asked me ANY in depth questions about myself. ALL info he had about me I had to initiate. He seemed perfectly happy just being with me, while knowing very little about me. All my friends said ad nauseum that "guys are just like that!" so, while deep down I did find it odd and frustrating, I was made to feel i was "asking too much" to want a guy who "got" me, who I could also "get" - over time it just became more and more impossible to tell how he really felt about anything, aside from the many things he felt jealous, inferior to, or threatened by. I did not want to face the fact that maybe there was just a void there - an endlessly clenched muscle keeping the pain at bay, leaving no energy to spare to truly get to know (and trust) someone else.

SO! what i mean by all this is HOW THE HELL do I see "red flags" as vague and questionable as his were in the beginning of my next relationship? Reluctance to open up at first is a trademark for many "normal" men, how do I tell the difference before I fall in love? My BP ex did not fully let his freak flag fly till after he lost his job (i later found out this was a reoccuring thing - his "issues" w. authority/ie bosses). Then the paranoia and twisted memory and meanness started. Just feeling very unsure of my own judgement right now...

[slimslowslider]

Many posts talk about the early red flags they see, in retrospect, when analyzing HOW they got in such a relationship. Over 3 years ago I met a guy who seemed the dead opposite of all the unstable (and/or alchoholic) men I'd dated in the past. He had a great job with a top magazine (had been there over a year) did not drink, was down-to-earth and seemed to truly enjoy the simple things in life. Our taste in film & art was identical and he had a very gentle, patient nature. There was no "instant obsession" on his part - our pacing in the beginning was mutually mellow - both on the same wavelength and felt such comfort & ease around eachother.

The only red flag I can look back on now was this - a vagueness about him whenever conversation started getting introspective. With everyone else I become close to, this is usually the major bonding time - to really start to know & trust eachother. Plus its FUN, like opening a treasure chest of the dark and light, similar and unique, etc. But with my bf, his responses, even in the "honeymoon phase", were always subtley at arms length, like he was sometimes making stuff up, contradict feelings/facts from previous conversations, or I could just TELL he was saying what he wanted me to hear at times. There was just a...VACANCY. A warm, accomidating vacancy, but a vacancy nontheless - . He is a very intelligent person with a capacity for abstract thought (he's an amazing visual artist and musician) yet when it comes to talking about HIMSELF, when he didn't seem to be struggeling to piece a simple opinion/thought together, what he could say clearly was often negative, self effacing or critical of others (boss, parents, brother, exes, etc). After the 1st few months I began to realize the guy almost never asked me ANY in depth questions about myself. ALL info he had about me I had to initiate. He seemed perfectly happy just being with me, while knowing very little about me. All my friends said ad nauseum that "guys are just like that!" so, while deep down I did find it odd and frustrating, I was made to feel i was "asking too much" to want a guy who "got" me, who I could also "get" - over time it just became more and more impossible to tell how he really felt about anything, aside from the many things he felt jealous, inferior to, or threatened by. I did not want to face the fact that maybe there was just a void there - an endlessly clenched muscle keeping the pain at bay, leaving no energy to spare to truly get to know (and trust) someone else.

SO! what i mean by all this is HOW THE HELL do I see "red flags" as vague and questionable as his were in the beginning of my next relationship? Reluctance to open up at first is a trademark for many "normal" men, how do I tell the difference before I fall in love? My BP ex did not fully let his freak flag fly till after he lost his job (i later found out this was a reoccuring thing - his "issues" w. authority/ie bosses). Then the paranoia and twisted memory and meanness started. Just feeling very unsure of my own judgement right now...

[slimslowslider]

sorry to repost but having a really tough weekend & could use some advice - he is moving out but his stuff is still all over the apt, and there is nothing I can do till he comes back from visiting family over xmas...long, lonely weekend here, trying hard not to replay the arguments in my head AGAIN...

[Tincup]

Hi, I can feel your pain.  I am not sure you could have seen these as red flags.  I think hind sight is always 20-20, but the frustrating thing with this whole process is that even hind sight in this case is blurred.  I also had a very comfortable beginning to the relationship.  She did come on strong, but at the time I thought I needed that as it was my first relationship since my divorce. 

Don't be hard on yourself for not seeing things.  Also try not to re-live too much of the past.  I am slowly coming to the realization that this whole thing will not make sense to me.  I am a logical person who likes to have things all add up right, the problem is that dealing with people with this disorder will never add up. 

take care of yourself, you will get through this.

[OutofOz]

Hey SSS,

Someone recently posted how frustrating it was that they couldn't talk with others outside of FTF about their experience and get any understanding at all.  I've found that a lot.  And I was reminded of that when I read that your friends told you your ex was "just being a guy".  For every red flag I experienced (and they were a long time in coming), I either had my own rationalization or a friend standing by with some platitude to explain it all away.  That's very hard for me, two years out now, because I still half-believe some of my own rationalizations.  It can be hard to get a handle on this.  Many BPDs are very normal in the early stages of love because there aren't bad memories to repress, and the love chemicals even them out.  Once things progress and there is history and less adrenaline, they can fall apart.  Don't comb your past too hard trying to blame yourself.  Hang in there!

OOO

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[goldenblunder]

Sounds like you have met a pretty stereotypical guy - especially a younger guy.  If they get more interested that that, only then can you assume they are really interested i a long term relationship.  Otherwise, it sure sounds like he is treating it as casual.

[OutofOz]

How do you mean goldenblunder?  That he looked like a stereotypical guy in the beginning?

I mean, I get it, the vagueness and not sharing feelings she described in the beginning is guy-ish.  But it's not an average guy thing to have so many problems with authority and bosses that you repeatedly lose your job.  It's also not normal to suddenly be paranoid and mean with distorted perception of reality.  There are deeper issues at that point.

OOO