"Don't talk about my dad like that... "

[Think About It....]

While laying awake in bed the other night, my oldest SD12 overheard a conversation between her dBPDmom and her boyfriend where they were bashing her dad. From the mouth of the boyfriend flew many descriptive words... and often the word "selfish".

Frustrated, my SD12 arose from her bed and walked into the room where they were and with conviction told the man she's known and lived with for a little over three months...

"Please don't talk about my dad like that..." and then walked away.

When describing the incident to her dad, my husband asked SD12 if she thought anything that was being said was true... to which she responded that not only did she think they were not true, but that she thought the exact opposite.  My husband gently told her, "that's all that matters to me. I only care about what you girls think, not this guy that I have never even met. How could he know all of these things when him and I don't even know each other?"

I can't say that this whole scene didn't have me flustered.  My husband does more than would ever be expected for those little girls (and their mom actually).  He has 50/50 custody and pays for everything lately from the court ordered expenses like daycare, health insurance, and child support... to the expenses that should be split like uninsured medical costs, school supplies, clothes, tennis shoes, sports fees, etc.

He coaches all three in softball.

I could go on... but that feeds my need to defend. And it doesn't matter what I say in the end.

My husband had it right.. it matters what the girls think.  They see the actions and don't believe the words.  I think we know that the boyfriend is simply reacting to what he's being told by the disordered person in our life.

I am so very proud of my stepdaughter.  I am so very proud of my husband for dealing with the circumstances with his pride not being his driving force... but the love for his daughter instead.  I'm actually even a bit proud of her dBPDmom for letting SD12 own her feeling and express it without reprimanding her. She actually apologized for the volume of what was supposed to be a private conversation.  

It's a lesson for the girls to learn about actions and words... and which speaks louder.  It's been a lesson for me to watch her stand up for what she believes is right... and letting go of the outcome... letting those around her be aware of what she won't allow.   I could learn a lot from that precious little one.    

 DreamGirl

[DreamGirl]

While laying awake in bed the other night, my oldest SD12 overheard a conversation between her dBPDmom and her boyfriend where they were bashing her dad. From the mouth of the boyfriend flew many descriptive words... and often the word "selfish".

Frustrated, my SD12 arose from her bed and walked into the room where they were and with conviction told the man she's known and lived with for a little over three months...

"Please don't talk about my dad like that..." and then walked away.

When describing the incident to her dad, my husband asked SD12 if she thought anything that was being said was true... to which she responded that not only did she think they were not true, but that she thought the exact opposite.  My husband gently told her, "that's all that matters to me. I only care about what you girls think, not this guy that I have never even met. How could he know all of these things when him and I don't even know each other?"

I can't say that this whole scene didn't have me flustered.  My husband does more than would ever be expected for those little girls (and their mom actually).  He has 50/50 custody and pays for everything lately from the court ordered expenses like daycare, health insurance, and child support... to the expenses that should be split like uninsured medical costs, school supplies, clothes, tennis shoes, sports fees, etc.

He coaches all three in softball.

I could go on... but that feeds my need to defend. And it doesn't matter what I say in the end.

My husband had it right.. it matters what the girls think.  They see the actions and don't believe the words.  I think we know that the boyfriend is simply reacting to what he's being told by the disordered person in our life.

I am so very proud of my stepdaughter.  I am so very proud of my husband for dealing with the circumstances with his pride not being his driving force... but the love for his daughter instead.  I'm actually even a bit proud of her dBPDmom for letting SD12 own her feeling and express it without reprimanding her. She actually apologized for the volume of what was supposed to be a private conversation.  

It's a lesson for the girls to learn about actions and words... and which speaks louder.  It's been a lesson for me to watch her stand up for what she believes is right... and letting go of the outcome... letting those around her be aware of what she won't allow.   I could learn a lot from that precious little one.    

 DreamGirl

[atwittsend]

your husband sounds like an amazing man.  and those kids sound great! 

[schwing]

Frustrated, my SD12 arose from her bed and walked into the room where they were and with conviction told the man she's known and lived with for a little over three months...

"Please don't talk about my dad like that..." and then walked away.

I'm glad that your husband and SDs have a good rapport to be able to talk about such incidents.

But I am a bit concerned that these kinds of actions, though important for your SD12 development as a young lady, will also cost her in terms of the kind of emotional punishment her BPDmomster is going to exact on her for standing up to her.  Then again, this kind of reinforcement might make her quite a stalwart the defender of what is right.

Best wishes, Schwing

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[DreamGirl]

But I am a bit concerned that these kinds of actions, though important for your SD12 development as a young lady, will also cost her in terms of the kind of emotional punishment her BPDmomster is going to exact on her for standing up to her.  Then again, this kind of reinforcement might make her quite a stalwart the defender of what is right.

 

My exact fear, schwing. What happens now?

How do I tell her what she should or shouldn't do? She has to do what she feels is right for her. She's the one who gets to deal with mom... and I think she's at the point where she needs to lead the way in what that entails.

And for what it's worth... she didn't stand up to mom. SD12 stood up to the boyfriend who she felt was lacking in the right to talk about her dad who, by her perception, was not all the awful things he was saying about him.  

I also think that it's a good boundary for her. You don't get to talk about my dad (or my mom for that matter) in a way that I don't think is acceptable.

I think she's right.

~DreamGirl

[PDQuick]

Im kinda proud of all of the participants in the scenario. Maybe even the new boyfriend got a lesson from this little lady. Give her a big hug from the board, will ya DG?

[schwing]

And for what it's worth... she didn't stand up to mom. SD12 stood up to the boyfriend who she felt was lacking in the right to talk about her dad who, by her perception, was not all the awful things he was saying about him.  

That may be.  But the BPDmother will probably take it as a direct personal affront.  I hope that PDQ is right, that this admonishment might give the boyfriend second thoughts about the appropriateness and truthfulness of her mother's account.

How do I tell her what she should or shouldn't do? She has to do what she feels is right for her. She's the one who gets to deal with mom... and I think she's at the point where she needs to lead the way in what that entails.

You shouldn't scold her for this behavior.  Just give her a head's up on the nature of this behavior without mentioning that her mother might be mentally ill.  Something I might say is: "Sometimes people, in order to feel better about themselves, especially when they might be ashamed or embarrassed about something, people put down other people.  They might even say things that aren't necessarily true, because they just want to feel better about themselves by making other people look or feel worse."  "What you say and believe is correct, but prepare yourself in case your mother might try to get you to behave differently.  Sometimes she just wants to feel better without thinking about whether or not what she does is the right thing to do.  I don't think you have that problem, do you?"

I also think that it's a good boundary for her. You don't get to talk about my dad (or my mom for that matter) in a way that I don't think is acceptable.

Yes that is a good boundary.  She needs positive reinforcement for this behavior.  And perhaps she needs to anticipate that her mother may produce negative consequences, when SD12's behaviors might affect her mother.

I think she's right.

Absolutely she is right.

[DreamGirl]

PDQ... you bet I'll give her a hug.  x

But the BPDmother will probably take it as a direct personal affront.

Perhaps, but I don't think so. I hate to say this, but I think mom is most comfortable when everybody around her is contentious. Triangulating is a technique that she uses often to pit those of us who love her against one another. Even her daughters.. who have yet to actually like a boyfriend that she's lived with.

 I hope that PDQ is right, that this admonishment might give the boyfriend second thoughts about the appropriateness and truthfulness of her mother's account.

I doubt it.  ;p


schwing, I love your ideas in explaining how a person will sometimes put others down to bring themselves up. Her and I have embarked in conversations in neutralizing this in our lives... negative comments about others balanced with the positives. I also think your dialogue is right on.    

I just don't know that I feel so comfortable in "warning" my stepdaughter about her mom's reactions and what they might be. I'm all about explaining that mom's behavior is often more about her own stuff (when she's stressed, tired, etc.) but I am not so sure about explaining what may come... I can't always predict what the heck she's gonna do and I would hate to cause confusion in trying...  

Please help me understand this better.

   DreamGirl

[schwing]

Perhaps, but I don't think so. I hate to say this, but I think mom is most comfortable when everybody around her is contentious. Triangulating is a technique that she uses often to pit those of us who love her against one another. Even her daughters.. who have yet to actually like a boyfriend that she's lived with.

Hmmm... that is unexpected.  I might have to pay attention to her specific flavor of BPD.  "comfortable when everybody around her is contentious."  Witch/hermit?  I may have to browse through your post history and see what I can notice.

I just don't know that I feel so comfortable in "warning" my stepdaughter about her mom's reactions and what they might be. I'm all about explaining that mom's behavior is often more about her own stuff (when she's stressed, tired, etc.) but I am not so sure about explaining what may come... I can't always predict what the heck she's gonna do and I would hate to cause confusion in trying...  

Perhaps warning her is not a good idea, especially if you are not comfortable with it.  My hope is that if you can describe broadly, behaviors that her mother may or may not exhibit, she might eventually come to you for advice.  Especially if she can see that your track record for anticipating her unpredictable behavior is good.  I am assuming you want to build this kind of rapport with her.

Hmm... considering that you overhead her previous conversation, I wonder if she is not comfortable talking to you about her mother's behaviors.  I guess it might make sense that she wouldn't be.

I think maybe the best route is, when she seeks it, to give her unconventional advice that might apply more to BPD behavior (which may also actually help her relate to some of her peers).  Then again, this all hinges on to which kinds of BPD behavior your SD12 is exposed.  I don't know what the heck she's going to do either.

I just know that not understanding why a uBPDmother does the things she does, may make it very difficult for her to relate to female authority figures in her life.  I'll try to come up with some examples when I get a chance to browse your history.

Here's one example that might be helpful. 

I had a lightbulb moment in my relationship with my uBPD mother when I realized that there were many many times when she might purposely say things that I found uncomfortable.  Perhaps she might criticize me or put me down in some indirect way.  She would always defend herself as "being a mother" to me, but the affect was that it upset me.  Then it dawned on me that she was the one who was upset first, and she was only provoking me to be her "sparring partner," that was a huge observation for me.

A way to put this might be: "Sometimes people can be in a bad mood, and they don't really have a good reason to be in a bad mood.  So they might go look for a reason, and it's easier to find that reason in other people, than to look inwards to see why they might be upset.  And so they might poke and prod you, and when you say 'ouch' they get mad you because your 'ouch' makes them look bad.  It's best to think of such people as human porcupines, because when you get too close to them, their spines will poke you, especially when they are already in a bad mood."

[marlo6277]

YAY SD!  Wow DG.  She's got a little chutzpa doesn't she?  Good for her.  I really do hope though that it doens't come back to bite her later.  But that too, will be a learning experience for her.  And she has you on her side to help her work through it if it comes to that.

My skids came home 2 summers ago from their mom's.  And I was standing in the kitchen and they just turned to me - 2 of the 3...can't remember which 2 - but they turned to me while I was at the counter and said, "Marlo, why do mommy and (sf) say that you are a ____ of hte highest order? What does that mean?"

I had to have that conversation with them - the one about how ppl will sometimes put others down to make themselves feel better and I felt bad taht they had to hear that, because I really don't know either of them that well, so they don't really know me that well either and it's upsettign that soemone would say such things about someone that they really didn't know.

It sort of ended it there...didn't hear much about that after that one occasion...

But it's just a sad sad sitch when they are faced with those things and those comments...

Good for SD for standing up for her father. She could have said nothing, not told your DH anythign and pretended like it never happened. And your DH would be none the wiser...She's a keeper there, DG.  I'm so proud of her.  YAY SD! 

[Buff]

These are the kinds of threads that are truly a joy to read!  The little lady has guts!  She knows the truth and she's not afraid to defend it...pretty good character trait I'd say!   

The score...a clean sweep for anyone with the integrity to uphold the best virtues in people, and a shut-out for those that want to sling the mud.  It must feel pretty good to see wonderful traits in you and her dad model, shown so valiantly.

Keep up the good work, and celebrate this victory together over an ice cream sundae!

Best, Buff

[cynthia1964]

I had posted a couple of weeks ago about my 16S standing up for himself in refusing to go with BPD/npd dad for the first time ever, in an attempt to protect himself, which gave me hope for him and his future.  Same for your SD...just wonderful she was brave enough to speak up and even more wonderful she seems to know the "real deal".  More hopeful news from our kids!  Thanks for sharing.

[PDQuick]

Ok Marlo, what is chutzpa? 

[marlo6277]

chutzpa...you gotta say the ch like you have a hair ball caught in your throat...

soooooooo...HOOTspa (with a hairball)..

chutzpa is a set of brass you-know-whats!  Gumption, gusto and gall! 

I   DGs SD!   

[PDQuick]

chutzpa is a set of brass you-know-whats! 

DG's SD has BB's? 

[marlo6277]

LMAO 

10-4 on the BBs of the SD to DG. 

...and carry the one?   

[DreamGirl]

 

 

[PDQuick]

Im not carrying the one, you do it.