Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 28, 2024, 02:04:29 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Skills we were never taught
98
A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
Communication Skills-
Don't Be Invalidating
Listen with Empathy -
A Powerful Life Skill
Setting Boundaries
and Setting Limits
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Email wars of the passive/aggressive kind  (Read 562 times)
Gaslit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 485


« on: January 30, 2010, 01:16:55 PM »

So, lately (well more lately) I have been getting the non-reply. She simply does not reply to some emails, not all. The non-reply's run the gambit to email's wishing her good luck, or just saying 'hi.' (Even if I saw her the day before and all was nice.) If challenged she'll say that she just never got around to it and try to change the subject. Or if she is emotionally deregulated she'll cite her long stand by of "I'm so busy at work." Yet I will see her posting on FB while she was 'so busy.' I kind of get when she has problems responding to 'feelings' emails. But I don't get not replying when I am just being nice. (If I keep it super sterile she will normally always reply)

Anyway, when she doesn't reply, maybe a few days later I will get a text or email that is brand new, that is, not acknowledging my last email. I never don't respond to any of her emails. It's rude. I think she will realize that she never responded to me and all of a sudden feel bad (or feel she is in 'trouble' about that because her emails are usually overly nice. I then of course reply all nice. Repeat.

But I am sick of it. So, her next email I will simply not reply to. And I won't email her after that. Maybe this is a game, but I don't feel like that. I am just sick of not even after a basic level of respect. Maybe I should move to the undecided board, but I am undecided! Anyway. I used to have a boundary set on replying to emails, but after a bad break last spring she proudly proclaimed that she no longer has to worry about replying to me or not. (Apparently that is an awesome feeling. This was before I knew about BPD or boundaries, yet I had set one only to see it no longer honored.)

So now what? I just feel done with all this.

Logged
RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING
This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

Ikwit
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 177


« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2010, 01:30:49 PM »

I'm not sure I have any words of wisdom, but I sure can empathize.  My H does this same behavior with verbal conversation.  I'll ask him something and he will just not respond.  He goes for days, sometimes weeks offering absolutely no conversation unless spoken to first.  Sometimes he gets stuck on something, like asking me "what's happening" or "how do you feel" like 50 times a day, with no other conversation.  It's kinda like a freeze out, but I'm not positive it's a game.  It seems like he can control it, but just doesn't want to work that hard to be better.  If I am also silent, he doesn't get it.  No matter what I do-address the behavior head on, mimic his behavior, do nothing, get upset-it does not change this behavior.  Sometimes it seems like he's in his own reality, not dissociated, but more autistic-like space.  I share your aggravation.  I got really sick of H pulling this all week I tried to address it via email.  That didn't work either cuz he uses email to send me a litany of junk that is always hurtful.  One therapist he saw described this stuff as him having a phobia of me.  Maybe, but it seems to fit borderline fear of abandonment stuff.   UGH!  I'd love some ideas on this too! 
Logged
dados76
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Relationship status: Living together for over a year
Posts: 2982


WWW
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2010, 02:11:11 PM »

email and text... can be realy hard... its hard to communicate if you make typos... and dont have voice... or being able to see them face to face... for people that are really hypersensitive... email usually aint the best way to communicate i think...

Excerpt
This was before I knew about BPD or boundaries, yet I had set one only to see it no longer honored.

boundaries... arent us changing somebody elses behavior... theres a good thread on here right now abt boundaries... theyre just stuff that you dont put up with... and the action that goes with... the only way for a boundary to not be 'honored' is if you dont honor it by enforcing it...

it sounds like... youre frustrated w/her lack of response... if youre writing just to say 'good luck' then your boundary might be... 'i will email when i have something specific to say... and not just to get a response back'

for the sterile emails... thats the only way i email w/my partner... the emotional stuff is too sticky and too hard to talk about over email... he gets dysregulated and pissed off and stops being able to understand me... i cant detach enough... or validate like that... so... a personal boundary i have... is i wont discuss emotional things over email... if something has him wound up... i ask him to write it down... so we dont forget... and we can talk about it later face to face... that way i have a better chance of understanding... and not as much gets lost in translation...

Excerpt
No matter what I do-address the behavior head on, mimic his behavior, do nothing, get upset-it does not change this behavior.  Sometimes it seems like he's in his own reality, not dissociated, but more autistic-like space.

my partner does do this i think... from how you describe anyway... when theres a lot of emotional 'noise'... he unplugs... gets very spacey... lights on but nobody home... and it gets very hard to carry on a conversation with him... he gets confused easily... and usually things have to be repeated three or four times to get a response other than 'huh?' or 'i dont know' ... it is frustrating... he also comes out of it on his own usually after a little while... when thats happening... its usually bc theres some strong feeling hes struggling with... so everything else gets shut down... kind of like a computer w/out enough memory... everything freezes until this one thing gets processed...

my part... is to just let him alone... really... i cant make him talk if he dont want to... so i have to back off... and let him work out of it...
Logged

Gaslit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 485


« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2010, 05:18:00 PM »

Has anyone tried simply not emailing them back the next time they come around like nothing happened? What happened? (And I understand that this is a game. I would be smart to reply and then wait until we are face to face and then tell her about my concerns around not responding to email. I guess, right now anyway, I'm just not in the mood to placate or be the adult. What? We have 'moods' too!)

Logged
JoannaK
DSA Recipient
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Married to long-term 9-year partner (also a non)
Posts: 22833



« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2010, 05:37:50 PM »

What is the purpose of all of these emails, gaslit?  Are you trying to discuss a problem between you?  Are you trying to figure out where you are going to go or what you are going to do socially?  Are you just exchanging a few words about how the day is going?

Believe it or not, but you get to decide how and when you reply to emails, texts, or phone calls.  If the email is pleasant and about a topic that you wish to discuss, you reply.  If it isn't, you don't.  I agree with dados... .  thorny problems, discussions about emotions or what happened should never take place over email or text... best if they don't happen over the phone either.

Can you give us some specific examples?

We also have a Workshop about the "silent treatment/silent raging".  Sometimes this punishing behavior, sometimes splitting behavior, sometimes disassociating behavior.  It is best to take a step back and let the person come back to you in their own way and time.
Logged

Gaslit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 485


« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2010, 05:52:47 PM »

I actually just read earlier today that entire workshop! It was good.

I am talking about when things are mostly good (though I sense some deregulation but don't know why) she will sometimes just not reply to emails. These are normal emails. Not feeling emails. There doesn't always seem to be a pattern. Then, after a few days or so, she'll write me all nice like she never ignored my email, like my email never happened. I will then reply like a normal person but I won't ask why she never responded to anything in my previous email to her (unlike a normal person who would probably ask). I don't ask because all I get is she was busy, or, it will lead to a another non-reply!

I guess I am just curious as to examples from people who have said screw this and just stopped replying. I feel I am almost there. (I know I should reply and then tell her my concern in person). But those who have not, what happened?

Logged
ifsogirl26
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Married 5 yrs together 12 yrs
Posts: 1928



« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2010, 08:07:24 PM »

Why don't you talk on the phone or in person instead. I am one who doesn't respond to emails well except work ones cause I have to and my family has learned that if its important to call me.
Logged
DragoN
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 996


« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2010, 10:11:56 PM »

Excerpt
proudly proclaimed that she no longer has to worry about replying to me or not.

It's true and it's her choice.

It's on you how you choose to react to that.

You can't Make her DO anything she doesn't want to. That works on both sides of the street.



Logged
Gaslit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 485


« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2010, 10:32:49 PM »

All true. But she is not replying because she is pulling away because we are getting too close, though the threshold of being too close is very low now. So it is frustrating because just when things are going well, when we are getting along, she stops replying all of a sudden one day. And then, when after a few days, she no longer feels too close, she will email me as if she never ignored my last email. So, I'm sorry. I disagree with the notion of we can't make someone do this or that, because this isn't about that making anyone do anything. It is simply common courtesy and honestly I know of no one else who does not reply. Maybe not the same day, or even the same week, but when they reply they continue the thread. How else can one move forward with a a conversation?

So, sorry if people are getting hung up on semantics. The bottom line is what experiences have people had when they just decide to disengage? Does it just get twisted back on to you?
Logged
DragoN
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 996


« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2010, 12:01:09 AM »

Excerpt
So, I'm sorry. I disagree with the notion of we can't make someone do this or that, because this isn't about that making anyone do anything.

Well... .it sort of kind of IS. You want HER to respond, she doesn't want to for whatever her reasons may be. That's on Her, her choice. You cannot make her develop better manners in responding if she doesn't want to.

Excerpt
It is simply common courtesy and honestly I know of no one else who does not reply. Maybe not the same day, or even the same week, but when they reply they continue the thread. How else can one move forward with a a conversation?

I understand your frustration there gaslit... .it's like a surreality a disconnect. I get that. She operates on another plane of awareness. The two do not meet. They are riddled with cognitive dissonance and what have you. You are frustrating yourself with this.

Excerpt
So, sorry if people are getting hung up on semantics. The bottom line is what experiences have people had when they just decide to disengage? Does it just get twisted back on to you?

I disengage, detach so that *I* am no longer fueling the fire. No emails out, therefore expect no replies. Reply to nothing is expected. Logical too non?

Gaslit, this one IS on you... .and I know you don't like it. I agree with common courtesy aspect... .I know what you mean. So, it is on YOU, to not send her all those emails. Let her come to you... .
Logged
Gaslit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 485


« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2010, 12:13:44 AM »

You're right DragoN. Which is why, at the end of the day, I am left wondering: Really? I put up with this? This is worth it? I'm dealing with strange things I don't have to deal with in any other relationship (certainly not just this one email issue, but all the nonsense over the past years). Which always reminds me: Would I put up with any of her behavior if it was anyone else, if I was not enmeshed? Of course I wouldn't, I would boot it.

It's funny that you comment on manners only because she once told me that what she learned from me was that when one cancels, one offers another time to reschedule. I thought that totally whacked at the time! Really, she didn't know this as an adult? It never came up? Wow.

Well, bottom line. I'm not responding to her when she writes. I hope to move to the disengaging board. Living one's life having to employ techniques for dealing with this illness and getting little in return does not sound awesome. However many months of sadness hell are ahead, certainly beats a whole life of the same.

Logged
DragoN
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 996


« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2010, 12:18:01 AM »

Excerpt
Would I put up with any of her behavior if it was anyone else, if I was not enmeshed? Of course I wouldn't, I would boot it.

Yes and No... .depends again on you.

Excerpt
Living one's life having to employ techniques for dealing with this illness and getting little in return does not sound awesome. However many months of sadness hell are ahead, certainly beats a whole life of the same.

That is a personal decision for each of us. No one will urge you to stay. I won't. However... .I would ask you to work the Tools for a while longer. Give it a chance... .and if nothing is getting better... .then you walk away with a clear conscience.

Does that sound fair to you?

Look at it this way, the tools are not for her, they are for you. And they will make the disengaging process easier as well. win win. And they won't make things worse either.
Logged
Gaslit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 485


« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2010, 12:25:57 AM »

I know I wouldn't put up with the same behavior. I believe a lot of us can say that. We know this from our past. We know this from the 'friends' we left behind, the friends that were not additive to our lives. We are not friends with them anymore. Or they are at a far.

But yes, it is fair to work the tools some more. I just don't know if I can. I guess I need to work on myself before I can work on her or us.
Logged
DragoN
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 996


« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2010, 12:36:05 AM »

Am glad you feel it's fair. I know for myself, much like you, I balked at doing anything that required "changing" to put up with my husband... .or so that was the perspective I had at the time.

However... .I did. I focused only on the aspects that I felt were about ME.

That alone made a huge difference , Boundaries... .then... .I bothered with validation.

It's a win win no matter where you go with the Tools in your back pocket.

It was my last kick at the can... .made a huge difference in that it worked, just not how I thought it would work. But... .it worked.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Give yourself the TIME to work it and make mistakes along the way. A time line is also helpful for yourself. 6 months to really learn and use them consistently. 6 months to see changes... .or less whatever works for YOU.
Logged
Gaslit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 485


« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2010, 12:04:06 PM »

Thanks dragoN! I like what you have to say.

I don't think I can make a 6 month plan, but maybe I'll see where I am after actually trying for a full month.
Logged
MaybeSo
Distinguished Member
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Together five years, ended suddenly June 2011
Posts: 3680


Players only love you when they're playing...


« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2010, 07:31:52 PM »

Excerpt
It's funny that you comment on manners only because she once told me that what she learned from me was that when one cancels, one offers another time to reschedule. I thought that totally whacked at the time! Really, she didn't know this as an adult? It never came up? Wow.



I said the same thing to myself about my bf as I got to know him... .many times.   How did this guy make it to his 40s not knowing this stuff?  I don't know if this is universal to BPD, but in addition to emotional dysregulation, it seemed as though he missed most basic courtesy instructions that are handed out or picked up from adoclecence to adulthood.  I don't know if he missed all those 'memos' becasue he was partying so hard during those years that it just went by him, or if it was part of the very poor parenting he got... .but I was agog quite often at his blatant lack of basic courtesy that one usually learns in both adult social and professional world.  

Replying to emails was not a huge problem, but showing up on time, or calling to say he was going to be late or need to reschedule... .these things went RIGHT by him.  

So early on... .I trained him.  He showed up late once, no problem, things happen.  Showed up late the second time, I politely explained that my time is important,  too, and if this continues, I simply won't be 'here' when and if he finally shows up.  The third time he was over an hour late... .I left and he found an empty house with doors locked.

 This was about 4 months into dating him.  I had NO intention of continuing to date, much less marry a man who showed that little respect for my time (he wasn't showing much respect for himself, either.)  Believe me, when he called that night he went ballistic, totally disregulated, screaming at how I have NO compassion for the day he just had... .etc.  When he yelled/screamed, I hung up. I didn't speak with him until he was able to talk without screaming at me.  

Gaslit, I had nothing to lose.  I did not scream back at him... .but he got the message very clear... .arrive late, and Sue will have moved on with her own plans, and she had no interest in arguing or yelling with you back and forth about the drama of it all... .she just won't be there.  He can be as disregulated as he wants, but he won't have me there as an audience for it, which kind of begs the question 'if a tree falls in a forest and there's no one there to hear it does it still make a noise?   There's just nothing... .zip.  

After this incident, he never left me waiting like that again.  He knew I wouldn't be there and I wouldn't 'argue' with him about it.  Oh, we had all sorts of other 'issues' to work out that were more complicated in nature, but he learned very quickly there was NO benefit and no upside to this particular behavior.

If it were emails, I don't know... .If I emailed to him something like "thinking about you" and I almost never got any kind of reply back to that kind of email,  I would either ask him about it (do you just not like getting emails of that nature?) or  I think I would simply stop sending emails of this nature, and stick with the kinds she does seem to respond to.  If you email someone with a direct question, I would expect an answer sooner or later either via email or phone or in person.  But If I'm emailing something that's more a comment "Hope you have a great day" I think a 'thank you' would be nice but if it I never got any response to those kind of messages,  I would stop sending them.
Logged

Gaslit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 485


« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2010, 08:35:18 PM »

MaybeSo, nice work early on not allowing the lateness! The chronic lateness with anyone drives me batty. We have things to do too! I too made that a boundary of mine early on. In addition to being rude, it is problematic when meeting when time is short, like lunch for example or if you are waiting somewhere for someone. Now if she is a little behind, she'll drive 80 miles an hour to be on time! That isn't good either. But overall she is always on time, which I appreciate. Meanwhile, I somehow always end up being early!

The 'thinking about you" emails are interesting because I find she sends those to me if she is worried I am pulling away! I always respond nicely to those. When I send her similar ones, it is hit or miss on how nicely she'll respond. I'm better off with something less emotional, like "I miss you, kind of!" Then I will get, "I kind of miss you too!"

Anyway, your advice is great on just not sending certain kinds of emails. I probably cause myself problems by sending emails that are a little too 'sweet' when I know she is deregulated. I need to stop that. Though in all honestly, her responses are often hilarious! They are all super business-like and formal when deregulated. So strange or I guess interesting!

Logged
dados76
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Relationship status: Living together for over a year
Posts: 2982


WWW
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2010, 08:41:46 PM »

Excerpt
They are all super business-like and formal when deregulated. So strange or I guess interesting!

my partner gets like this too... some of it is that hes not comfortable expressing feelings at all usually... good or bad... good feelings he usually ends up expressing pretty formally like... 'i enjoy your company too... ' for a while... he had a friend that would laugh about how formal he was talking about feelings... now he doesnt have that friend anymore... bc he stopped enjoying time they spent together...

the more dysregulated he is... the harder it is for him to explain what hes trying to say... the more formal he ends up sounding... bc hes trying to find the words for what he means...
Logged

MaybeSo
Distinguished Member
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Together five years, ended suddenly June 2011
Posts: 3680


Players only love you when they're playing...


« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2010, 01:37:47 PM »

Sweet equals being emotionally vulnerable.  That's probably too scary/triggery for her.  Scary leads to disregulation.  So she gets business-like instead.  It's safer. 

If it helps at all... .scary/disregulation could look much, much worse than quirky or odd 'businesslike' responses or non-reponse.  Much worse.

So, we have to assess for ourselves with any realtionship, what's a deal-break versus what's  just annoying/odd/quirky.   

Ain't no one out there that's pefect. 

Danm it!
Logged

livingw/ochaos
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 1699


« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2010, 03:54:47 PM »

My H does this kind of thing.  He will sometimes not respond to communications (whether, in person, on the phone, or via email). 

According to him, something about the communication might be triggering, in which case, he defaults to silence (since he doesn't know what to say or do).

And believe me these "triggers" can be absolutely impossible for us to anticipate.  For example, I can ask him to purchase milk on his way home from work, and he can interpret this as "obviously you are trying to shame me, since you are implying I should have offered to buy milk without your prompting". 

It's not really a game. 

It's a painful way to live.

I just can't imagine that attempting to show them the same disregard they show us will help heal anything.  I mean if you are stuck in a "tit for tat" sort of engagement with them - no one will win anything.

Have you ever just asked if she received the last communication and let her know it upset you that she didn't reply?
Logged
dados76
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Relationship status: Living together for over a year
Posts: 2982


WWW
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2010, 05:09:10 PM »

Excerpt
It's not really a game.

It's a painful way to live.

true... i think... the 'game' idea kind of... ends up being in our head a lot... bc it feels like a game to us... ive seen my partner 'play' with people on purpose... and its a really different thing... than his usual weirdness... if it bothers you that she doesnt reply... dont send the message... i think... the easiest way to approach contacts over email and text... is to send them bc you have something specific you want to say... and to be ok without a response... if its not going to be ok w/out a response... just wait and talk in person...
Logged

Gaslit
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 485


« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2010, 06:17:44 PM »

Well, if last Friday you would have asked if I would email her today, I would have said no blank'n way! But I felt different today, so I did. She replied, nice, but still kind of blah. When she is like this, her emails lack any real detail. But, it was nice. Anyway, for the fun of it, I emailed her at the end of the day, just something short and funny, and to my surprise, we ended up emailing back and forth being funny. (I still struggle with the 'to my surprise.' I wish things I take for granted with others were not a 'pleasant' surprise with her. But that is my issue.)

"Have you ever just asked if she received the last communication and let her know it upset you that she didn't reply?"

I'm seeing her at the end of the week. We have other stuff to talk about so I plan to bring this up, in the nicest, calm voiced, validating way possible! Yeah, wish me luck!

Good stuff btw regarding just waiting a few days and then letting them know you are thinking about them. I agree that they eventually feel guilty and then are like scared to email us because we might be angry.

Logged
unicorn2014
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 2574



« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2015, 09:52:57 AM »

What is the purpose of all of these emails, gaslit?  Are you trying to discuss a problem between you?  Are you trying to figure out where you are going to go or what you are going to do socially?  Are you just exchanging a few words about how the day is going?

Believe it or not, but you get to decide how and when you reply to emails, texts, or phone calls.  If the email is pleasant and about a topic that you wish to discuss, you reply.  If it isn't, you don't.  I agree with dados... .  thorny problems, discussions about emotions or what happened should never take place over email or text... best if they don't happen over the phone either.

Can you give us some specific examples?

We also have a Workshop about the "silent treatment/silent raging".  Sometimes this punishing behavior, sometimes splitting behavior, sometimes disassociating behavior.  It is best to take a step back and let the person come back to you in their own way and time.

Are there any specific threads on punishing behavior? That's what I'm looking for.
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!