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Think About It... The Borderline and the narcissist. The borderline tends to be dominated mostly by abandonment fears, and the narcissistic person, by fear of the loss of specialness or appreciation.When the promise of that bond is threatened, the borderline responds with blame and attack defenses. The narcissist tends to withdraw, fears a loss of specialness, easily becomes injured or outraged ~Joan Lachkar, Ph.D..
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Author Topic: Borderline Personality Disorder and the Impossible Scenario for Nons  (Read 6176 times)
PotentiallyKevin
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« on: February 11, 2010, 10:58:47 AM »

I had a very vivid dream last night. I dreamt about her and it was so real. The dream was reliving one of our many break-ups and my attempts to get her back. I woke up in a cold sweat thinking about it. Her coldness, bitterness, indifference, haughtiness, etc that she was portraying in my dream was a perfect example of how she was every time she discarded me and I flailed about trying to get her back. Like I said, I was very disturbed by all of this, but it got me thinking.

I was watching a video last night about BPD and how therapy tends not to work because the therapists are going about it all wrong. I didn't agree with a lot of this video, because the gentleman was adamant about dropping labels like "BPD" and that personality disorders aren't diseases and therefor should not be treated through pharmacology. The part that I did find so fascinating, was where he compared treating a normal "diseased" person who had depression or bipolar disorder or schizophrenia with treating someone with BPD, or "nondiseased". With a "diseased" person, they actively are seeking treatment from a "healthy" therapist. They understand that they are unhealthy and therefor, reach out to someone who IS healthy that can help them heal.

Not so with borderline. At the root of borderline personality disorder is the feeling of being inferior. Borderlines explicitly feel this way, like they are nothing. If a borderline were to actively seek someone "healthier" than themselves, naturally this person would be viewed as "superior." This elicits a powerful response in the borderline to fight this unequality - the borderline MUST be equal. If a therapist goes into therapy treating the borderline as if they are weak or dysfunctional, the borderline will DO ANYTHING to fight against this appraisal. The only hope for therapy, and I have read that DBT actually uses this platform, is to try and establish and equal, trusting relationship between the "client" and the therapist.

I know this is probably not making a lot of sense right now, as my mind is going 1000000 miles per hour ... one of my "AHA" moments. But i promise you an epic post when I can put this all on paper.

When thinking back to my own relationship, I am now seeing how doomed this relationship was from the get go. My exBPDgf was initially attracted to me because I am what you would consider a "strong" or "colorful" character. I had what she desperately wanted, a sense of control, power and belonging. I have hobbies, friends, goals and am a very vissionary person. What would a borderline want in a person more than that... that is also why borderlines are extremely attracted to narcissists. Narcissists offer the fantasty of power, control, substance...

Anyways, this ultimately lead to why my relationship with her was doomed because she could never respect me for what I possessed because in the end it was threatening to her - it brought out her INFERIORITY COMPLEX.

Although I believe the resent studies and observations on borderline personality disorder are extremely invaluable and have added to mine and the communities understanding on the disorder - definitely causing awareness - but I believe the research is going in the wrong direction.

There seems to be a big backlash to Frued and Psychoanalytic Theory lately. The focus has turned much to the hybrid studies of Behavioral Theory and Cognitive Theory especially with the emmergence of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy as the psychological powerhouse. This recent movement has shifted focus and tried to explain BPD as a trauma based disorder. In fact, I have seen studies claim as high as 80% of borderlines were abuse victims... many sexually abused. There also seems to be a large focus on borderline and PAIN and the catch phrases "Fear of Intimacy, and Fear of Abandonment." Although I do believe that bordelines do have problems in this area, these two are actually powerful manifestations of greater problems at the core psyche. They are: Inferiority Complex, Emmotional and Cognitive Immaturity, and Identity Disturbance.

Borderlines do not fear intimacy or abandonment in the traditional sense. It took me the longest time to grasp this concept, because I could never wrap my mind around why a borderline would sabatoge their safety net. If they really feared intimacy and abandonment, they would clinge to their safety net and probably have Dependent Personality Disorder - not the bizarre behaviors of Borderline PD.

Let me explain my scenario. Like I said before, I am a strong character. I know who and what I am. I grew up being told who I wasn't and what I wasn't capable of doing - and I fought this tooth and nail. Along comes my borderline partner. She initially worshipped me for what I represented - everything she desperately wanted for herself. But, as we became more attatched to one another, my strenghts became insulting to her - just the representation that I was strong, made her feel week and useless. At first this elicits a positive response in the borderline: "I will show him how wonderful I am!" So she bought me gifts and toned her body into a supermodels and praised the hell out of me... everything she could do to try and feel wonderful, needed and important. How did I respond, I treated her like a Queen, bought her gifts, showered her with attention etc. Unfortunatley, borderlines interpret this as YOU being once again superior to THEM. You have just upped the ante and once again they are beneath you...indebted to you.

The next reaction in the borderline psyche is: "If i can't be where he is, I will tear him down to where I am!" Then came the rages, the put downs, the relationship sabotoging... you know the drill. The purpose to all of this was to try and be on common ground - but of course, YOU AS THE NON won't let this happen. Neither would I. All of her attacks were met by my resilience. I was good! I was just! I was wonderful! and I was going to prove this to her! I will make it so she CANNOT see me as she does now!

All this ended up doing was invalidating her quest to become equal. By thwarting her attempts to tear medown, she increasingly felt more shameful, more worthless, more useless... "I can't ever make him feel the way he makes me feel". She hated me for this. All a borderline is trying to do when they pick fights, rage, and be abusive, is force you to feel exactly how they have been feeling all along. Dreadfully confused to why the "world" supposidly treats them this way. If you want to know how a borderline feels most of the time, just listen to their insults and rages, it is key to understanding exactly how they feel the world is treating them.

Anyways, I have to run back to work.

To be continued.
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po·ten·tial  adj.
1. Capable of being but not yet in existence; latent: a potential greatness.
2. Having possibility, capability, or power.
3. The inherent ability or capacity for growth, development, or coming into being.
4. Something possessing the capacity for growth or development.
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2010, 12:07:17 PM »

dude jesus.  have I told you lately how amazing your posts are?  you put my thoughts into words all over this place here so eloquently.  thank you
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harmony1
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2010, 12:12:48 PM »

dude jesus.  have I told you lately how amazing your posts are?  you put my thoughts into words all over this place here so eloquently.  thank you

ditto Doing the right thing
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C C
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2010, 12:41:41 PM »

Mobocracy  x,
I love reading your posts!

I've read a lot of articles and seen a lot of videos regarding BPD and it's "root" cause. This explains a lot and also proves the "child-like" mentality they have. The "if I don't have it you won't have it", "if I don't go, you don't go". For us nons having an adult with "chil-like" behavoirs is beyond confussing, we try to "rationalize" their behavior, but we never will. They are for ever in a "child-like"  mentality until they get help.
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"Taking responsibility for everything in your life gives you the power to change it. Taking responsibility for nothing ensures that you'll stay a victim"

David Viscott
GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?
This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving
All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)
997s
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2010, 01:12:47 PM »

My uBPDw's sister told me that she had only dated 'intelectually' inferior guys before she met me... she always like to feel more intelligent than her partners, and she almost always dumped them first... her last ex- before me left her, and she took that VERY hard.

I frequently get really hateful comments like '... just because i dont have a PhD from xxx...' she would say it with such a venomous tone in her voice... i really dont care about anyones schooing and qualifications, but for her its a big deal... oh and now she has dug out her degree and has it displayed on her nightstand ! Like a constant reminder of how smart she is.
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modernman
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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2010, 01:13:03 PM »


I've often thought Mobacracy needed 90% of his posts in a "Must Read" sticky...

Cudos to your insight and empathy for your plight.
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"My heart is not empty... its light and its free.  I have nothing but affections for all those who've sailed with me."  Bob Dylan
modernman
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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2010, 01:16:57 PM »



My stbxdBPDw gave me a huge red flag early on that I did not perceive...

she said I'm better balanced than what she is used to.  She said she typically sought out guys who were not as together, intelligent or good looking. (not that I'm all that, imho)... She said she dated guys 'beneath her' because they would always be afraid she'd leave them.  Kept them on a meat hook so to speak.

That bi+ch was ALL icing and NO cake.

Lord have mercy!
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"My heart is not empty... its light and its free.  I have nothing but affections for all those who've sailed with me."  Bob Dylan
997s
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2010, 01:23:40 PM »




That bi+ch was ALL icing and NO cake.


Awesome expression ! Doing the right thing
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PotentiallyKevin
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2010, 01:30:11 PM »

Real quick before I have to go back to work.

Has anyone seen the episode of "The Office" where Dwight keeps doing favors for people so he can be "one up" on them and they will owe him a favor? When he does this for Andy, Andy can't let anyone be "One up" on him, so its back and forth between the two of them. Eventually Dwight goes into a rage about it, neither of them are doing the favors out of kindness, its out of control and power.

I think this is a lot the same with BPD. The acts of kindness are just like Dwight's favors.

Anyways, I promise an epic post. I don't know if i will publish it here or on my blog as I am sure it will be long. It has a lot to do with Alfred Addler's theory of Inferiority Complex etc.

Thanks for the comments.
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po·ten·tial  adj.
1. Capable of being but not yet in existence; latent: a potential greatness.
2. Having possibility, capability, or power.
3. The inherent ability or capacity for growth, development, or coming into being.
4. Something possessing the capacity for growth or development.
C C
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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2010, 01:35:45 PM »

Quote
neither of them are doing the favors out of kindness, its out of control and power.

AMEN!  Doing the right thing

Yes, they do nice things to make THEM feel good. WE have nothing to do with it, but  we liked thinking we did!
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