PERSPECTIVES: Ragephobia, the fear of being raged upon

[Althea]

Ifso and Dados, I too am experiencing less fear and more sassiness.  There is a lot of laughter in our house now.  When we started with our babies, I set boundaries.  I mean deal breakers, like name calling.  It is funny how a man knows the mama will leave, without a doubt, to ensure your babies have a good, calm, happy homelife.  So, it motivates him to watch his triggers, and his mouth.  We have been married for four years now, and are FINALLY having fun, and sharing responsibilities.  I was really happy to read others having the same joys and progress.  It was important for me to read your posts, because sometimes I become very sad about the posts and not being able to give some of the people here, a real, in person hug that would make everything better.  Whoa.  I am becoming my mom.  WTH  when did that happen?  ?

[dados76]

most of the time.. w/having good boundaries.. and learning how to validate.. things are pretty good.. R is always up and down.. daily usually.. but way less spill over to other people.. and he gets lots better at regulating.. when hes dealing w/his feelings w/out just losing his sh*t..

hes crazy.. im crazy about him.

[Althea]

"He's crazy and I'm crazy about him".  I love that!  I feel the same way, again.  I have done a 180 lately in my renewed love for my hubby, as he has devoted himself to being a better, husband, communicator and partner in all things.  And, he's smoking hot. 

[Auspicious]

Here's a personal example of "rageophobia".

Her: We need to buy X.

Me: {oh crap ... we can't afford it ... but I know from experience she's going to make life a living hell if I tell her that ... arrrgh, I don't even want to deal with this ... I wonder how much of my blood I'd have to sell to afford this ... or maybe I can get a loan ...}  I'll see what I can do honeybunch.


Now, it's not an irrational fear that she will pour on the emotional attacks if I say we can't afford it ... it's a rational fear, based on experience. But in the example above, I let it irrationally control me.


Let's try it again.

Her: We need to buy X.

Me: {oh crap ... we can't afford it ... OK, based on experience she's going to try to make life a living hell if I tell her that ... what can I do to protect myself from that? OK, if she starts in, I'll leave the room. If she follows me, I'll leave the house. I'm prepared.}  X would be very useful! We can't afford it right now, but maybe we can save up for it. What are your ideas on that?

[Nutts45]

We can't afford it right now, but maybe we can save up for it. What are your ideas on that?

What would you do If you wife agrees logically..but it still affects her emotional being.  And and hour later she starts getting irritated at every little thing.

You know logically that this is because she wanted something that she could have.  She has learned ranting and raging is not an option, so she is now reverting to childish behavior.

[Auspicious]

What would you do If you wife agrees logically..but it still affects her emotional being.  And and hour later she starts getting irritated at every little thing.

You know logically that this is because she wanted something that she could have.  She has learned ranting and raging is not an option, so she is now reverting to childish behavior.

The first thing I'd do - and I do have to consciously do this - is remind myself that this is an improvement. Verbal acting out is better than physical acting out. Snippiness is better than yelling. Etc. Just because you didn't teleport to your destination doesn't mean you aren't on the right path.

Then I remember I have choices. At any given moment, I can choose to end the conversation, take a time out if need be, try to hear and validate her emotions (e.g. "yes, it is hard to wait"), etc.  I don't have to just "endure" it. I have choices.


We have some really good articles on how changing our approach doesn't mean coddling or "surrendering".

http://www.bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a104.htm

[Steph]

 Yea, I think weve sort of taken the "rageaphobic" term and turned it into something that it wasnt meant to be..

1) Being raged at sucks. We all agree.

2) If we live with a rager, must we allow it to control our lives?

3) If we fear being raged at, are we not allowing ourselves to stay stuck in the FOG, or operating out of the FOG?

 So no one likes being raged at. This particular symptom of BPD greatly effects anyone in its path. I think its important, tho, that we not allow ourselves to be so afraid of it that we cannot express ourselves or otherwise cause us tremendous or paralyzing anxiety. We set boundaries around it, we walk out, we protect our kids..we do not allow ourselves to be controlled by this symptom of BPD. We also need to remember that we cannot control another persons emotions.

 Also, keep in mind raging isnt about us, so there is no reason to be around it. We have the ability to leave when raging goes on. If we stop allowing ourselves to stick around for it...and we know that it feels good to our person who is raging, we are reinforcing that raging works and it works well for them. So, raging continues.

Changing things by taking away the audience for a rager as opposed to allowing yourself to live in fear of raging, to me, makes the most sense AND it is also the healthiest option for you, your kids and for your rager

[Steph]

What would you do If you wife agrees logically..but it still affects her emotional being.  And and hour later she starts getting irritated at every little thing.

You know logically that this is because she wanted something that she could have.  She has learned ranting and raging is not an option, so she is now reverting to childish behavior.

The first thing I'd do - and I do have to consciously do this - is remind myself that this is an improvement. Verbal acting out is better than physical acting out. Snippiness is better than yelling. Etc. Just because you didn't teleport to your destination doesn't mean you aren't on the right path.

Then I remember I have choices. At any given moment, I can choose to end the conversation, take a time out if need be, try to hear and validate her emotions (e.g. "yes, it is hard to wait"), etc.  I don't have to just "endure" it. I have choices.


We have some really good articles on how changing our approach doesn't mean coddling or "surrendering".

http://www.bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a104.htm

 And also remember...just because your partner with BPD isnt raging does NOT mean they are not still someone with BPD. They are still disordered and not raging will NOT recover them from BPD. For them, its taking away a coping skill that they use to feel better, so they are going to struggle and feel miserable. You will need to deal with other behaviors as they come up.

Steph

[Checkmate]

What would you do If you wife agrees logically..but it still affects her emotional being.  And and hour later she starts getting irritated at every little thing.

You know logically that this is because she wanted something that she could have.  She has learned ranting and raging is not an option, so she is now reverting to childish behavior.

The first thing I'd do - and I do have to consciously do this - is remind myself that this is an improvement. Verbal acting out is better than physical acting out. Snippiness is better than yelling. Etc. Just because you didn't teleport to your destination doesn't mean you aren't on the right path.

Then I remember I have choices. At any given moment, I can choose to end the conversation, take a time out if need be, try to hear and validate her emotions (e.g. "yes, it is hard to wait"), etc.  I don't have to just "endure" it. I have choices.


We have some really good articles on how changing our approach doesn't mean coddling or "surrendering".

http://www.bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a104.htm

 And also remember...just because your partner with BPD isnt raging does NOT mean they are not still someone with BPD. They are still disordered and not raging will NOT recover them from BPD. For them, its taking away a coping skill that they use to feel better, so they are going to struggle and feel miserable. You will need to deal with other behaviors as they come up.

Steph

Steph you got that right ... Because my SO doesn't rage it took forever to figure out what was going on ... There is no doubt he has BPD any longer but it took a while to make this determination ... Even took his therapist 2 years ...

BPD can wear many faces ... It's the shapeshifter of the mental health world ...

[dados76]

And also remember...just because your partner with BPD isnt raging does NOT mean they are not still someone with BPD. They are still disordered and not raging will NOT recover them from BPD. For them, its taking away a coping skill that they use to feel better, so they are going to struggle and feel miserable. You will need to deal with other behaviors as they come up.

Steph

true.. my partner used drugs for a lot of years.. to cope.. and self injured on and off for even longer.. but when he got clean.. the SI stuff.. got really bad.. from a few times a month to several times a day.. and really hard to stop too.. but didnt stop until he learned healthier ways to deal..

[Nutts45]

Just because you didn't teleport to your destination doesn't mean you aren't on the right path.

You bursted my bubble..  I know I keep telling myself it took 3 years to get to where we are now, it didn't happen over night.  It will take longer to move forward, because what ever trigger or the core issues will take awhile to figure out.

It is so weird right now..my H is the person I love and know..at least he was went he left to run an errand.

For them, its taking away a coping skill that they use to feel better, so they are going to struggle and feel miserable. You will need to deal with other behaviors as they come up.

I know..just got use to dealing with the other..now I am at a loss..I wish I could just send him to his garage.  I can see it... H that wasn't very nice...why don't you go to your garage...and come back when you can be nice.

[LOAnnie]

That tactic works when you are an adult dealing with another adult in a chosen relationship, but that tactic is not an option for the child of a raging, out-of-control, emotionally and physically abusive parent.  Trying to walk away and protect yourself can get you worse abuse.

I grew up with a very high-functioning but very rage-filled bpd/npd mother who would act out emotionally and physically at us kids, and I developed rageophobia; I am drama-phobic.  I live alone in order to avoid as much interpersonal conflict and drama as possible; I think I have some avoidant personality disorder symptoms, even, as a result of being raged at so often.

So growing up being screamed at and shamed and vilified and humiliated and punished for just being an imperfect human being by a bpd parent can do great damage to a child and young person. 

-LOAnnie

The cure to healing from ragephobia isn't to ignore the rager - it is to take care of yourself by walking away. When you remove the audience (us) from the rager, you are removing the pay off they get from raging. If the rager then turns on the children, then that is another whole issue that needs to be addressed...

No one should stay and be an audience to someone who is out of control and raging. NO ONE...

[C12P21]

UFN, you always post such thoughtful topics that stretch me.  I particularly see myself in this topic.  I am afraid of being raged upon and fight the natural tendency to change my actions  in hopes of avoiding such hurtful behavior.

I hate being raged at and when my exnbpd raged at me, I walked away. He found me in the garage crying like a child. I told him, I cannot take being threatened or bullied in a rage.
It was the last time he raged at me until we broke up, he bottled all his rage inside and saved it for the last day. But part of what happened is this-I quit trusting him and I quit feeling free around him. It just cast a pall over our relationship, I started the eggshell boogie.
Thinking it through I know what it is I hate, when someone attacks me verbally in a rage. I hate it. And I will never tolerate it again, ever. Someone does that to me  I won't hide in the garage crying. They will hear one of two sounds, my door closing as they leave. Or their door closing as I leave.
I am done with abuse.

[Nutts45]

What about the fear of having no fear!

When you reach the point where you are just honest, say what you feel...because enough is enough! 

All is good about their therapy, progress or life..but you have one concern!  The issues you can't voice not because your scared, but because you know it doesn't matter because they are not there yet.

[Nutts45]

Geez when I saw that the thread was bump up I..read the original post.  But being short on time only responded to the first..not realizing I originally responded in May of last year!

I just clicked on replies to your last post...now I have to look at which board this was moved to...

"As fear is based on something that we think may happen in the future, it is clearly a mental process which tries to predict the future - in that sense, the reason of fear is a projection of our mind.

We can be afraid to fall, but once we are falling, we are afraid to hit the ground, once we hit the ground, we may fear we have a bad injury, once we know we have a bad injury, we may fear the pain and the consequences of not being able to work for some time or become disabled etc. So one could say that fear is always based on something that has not happened yet, and is therefore a fantasy of our mind rather than fact. "  Quoted from http://viewonbuddhism.org/fear.html

Well...I think I answered my own post..

[BoulderCAT]

The cure to healing from ragephobia isn't to ignore the rager - it is to take care of yourself by walking away. When you remove the audience (us) from the rager, you are removing the pay off they get from raging. If the rager then turns on the children, then that is another whole issue that needs to be addressed...

No one should stay and be an audience to someone who is out of control and raging. NO ONE...

  Some of you have heard this before, but I think it bears repeating for those that havent heard it yet.

 Since my H recovered from BPD, we talked about raging alot. I am going to share some of his insight into it.

First, know he was a major raging guy..awful.

Now, he talks about it.

He says it felt GOOD to rage. Endorphins, powerful, etc. It felt GOOD. He emphasized that. It helped him feel power and in control and he FELT something positive. A high. Somehow, that 'fun' never happened to me, when I was his target

He also said that when someone is dysregulated like that, there is nothing for us, as nons to do, except "save yourselves". That means walk away, get away. We do NOT help the situation by staying. Raging destroys us and our relationships and it feels good, like a drug. WE need to stop enabling it to happen.

  Just wanted to add this to the discussion. It may help someone understand, from a recovered persons POV.

Steph-

My dBPDgf also openly discusses her raging as well (she's in DBT and well on her way to a full recovery). She has said the exact same thing as your H. She has also said that while she is raging she KNOWS exactly what she is saying and in many cases she realizes how utterly ridiculous some of the things she's saying truly are. It's just that when the RAGE begins she doesn't know how to stop. I found this to be very interesting as well.

[OTH]

Omphalophobia- Fear of belly buttons. (had to throw that one in  wink)

I can relate. You never know what is going to come out of there. 

[Cantor]

Hm I'm not sure I fear raging as much as I fear criticism from authority figures!
Maybe authophobia? I guess that could be fear of authors too though...  

[Shaktipat]

I used to fear rages,  but when I realized that I can only be responsible for my own behavior and that I have no control over others, that stopped. We all have to be responsible for our own actions and respect our own values. I act like a mature, emotionally stable adult,  even if I am the only one doing it.

[Iced]

I probably have Ragephobia at this point and ironically, I am fit to burst with my own anger issues (many of which stem from my experience dealing with the person in my life who had BPD).

I know that the worst that can happen is...   well...   nothing.  At least, nothing life-damaging like...   oh say, dying.

But when I revisit the time where my gut reaction to RAGE turned into what it is now, I can also see where that Ragephobia comes from, too.

Though I certainly didn't die from being Raged at, very shortly after what I call our final confrontation, I literally became ill and ended up needing hospitalization as all the stress from everything triggered a relapse in a previously managed medical condition unrelated to anything psychiatric in nature.

Post-hospitalization, I ended up being put on anti-anxiety medication because between worrying that my friend would kill themselves and feeling shaken up from basically being their punching bag for hours on end (I should have and could have walked away at that time, but my concern for their safety won over) and not having the mental and emotional defenses to stand strong against it at the time, my emotional and mental strength buckled.

During this time, I initiated NC and though things had already gone bad, things went even worse and then the stalking and flurry of messages and notes from everywhere (the I hate you, don't leave mes; the you're a monster, you ruined my lifes; the I hope you're miserable for the rest of your lifes; the you should never be allowed to get close to people and if you get close to anyone i know, I will make life miserable for yous etc) started - first active and then later - years later, passive.

Still recovering from the hospitalization and the relapse, all of that only made it worse and that was when my Ragephobia was ultimately born.  Or rather, Ragephobia in regards to dealing with people who have a tendency to RAGE out of control and without any kind of self awareness and then never acknowledge (to you) or apologize (to you) for it.

When I go back into therapy, this is definitely an issue that I will address with them; I hate this fragility that has developed and I want to be strong enough to be able to handle rage appropriately and without letting my gut reaction take over first.