Emotional Affairs

[Think About It...]

Some of you might remember my attempts to define an emotional affair in the recent past. I still have mixed feelings about what one is.

But I found this article that is interesting about emotional affairs.


http://dating.personals.yahoo.com/singles/relationships/24263/dating-question-are-you-having-an-emotional-affair


To me the examples sited don't look so much like emotional affairs since there have been actions associated with those feelings. But I thought it was a good article.

Emotional Affairs are a regular topic on this board and there allways seems to be alot of confusion about the subject.

[Checkmate]

Some of you might remember my attempts to define an emotional affair in the recent past. I still have mixed feelings about what one is.

But I found this article that is interesting about emotional affairs.


http://dating.personals.yahoo.com/singles/relationships/24263/dating-question-are-you-having-an-emotional-affair


To me the examples sited don't look so much like emotional affairs since there have been actions associated with those feelings. But I thought it was a good article.

Emotional Affairs are a regular topic on this board and there allways seems to be alot of confusion about the subject.

[Lemlover]

Thanks ABD.  EA are so tricky because they aren't always clear cut.
Growing up I had a lot of platonic guy friends--I had only brothers until adolescence when my sister was adopted (she is my age). So guys were always around, I enjoyed their company, their fun, and the fact that they were not "catty" or two-faced like some of my girl friends. I was in no way attracted to them.  I had boyfriends who were often friends with these guys and never had a problem that most of my friends were guys. 
So it was a complete shock when H and I were dating that he started accusing me of emotional attachments to my friends. He forced me to choose him or them.  Needless to say, I chose him  ?. From then on no more guy friends until years into our marriage.  He started accusing me of all kinds of things like are listed in this article--totally untrue and he was not witness to.  I told him everything this guy and I discussed in public places at work.  So, why?  He was projecting.
When projection was brought up in MC, T said he would create the climate for me to have an EA if he didn't back off.
We nons often express how our marriages can be lonely.  My question is this (and I am not justifying anything--just asking), are we having EA more, less, the same type of EA's as pwBPD because of the circumstances created by BPD? Any brave souls willing to share?

[Checkmate]

We nons often express how our marriages can be lonely.  My question is this (and I am not justifying anything--just asking), are we having EA more, less, the same type of EA's as pwBPD because of the circumstances created by BPD? Any brave souls willing to share?

You know it's only been in the last few months that I've begun to have that lonely feeling in my relationship. I am not lonely but I can sense the feeling beginning to grow. It's interesting that you mention this.

Great question ... Wonder what the responses will be ...

I have an ex and we were together for about five years. I was accused of having an affair. It was hinted at that I couldn't have certain types of friends. I never cheated. Heck, I've never cheated on anyone. When it ended my ex had been having an affair for the last six months of our relationship. The ex is udxNPD and dxOCD/Depression. Talk about projecting ... Those where five of the most lonely years of my life ...

[MaybeSo]

I’ve read the previous post about what EAs are or are not…and this one, too.
After the first 2 years w/ my so who suffers from BPD, gad and cyclothymia…I kind of felt like an expert on the subject of EAs.  I actually did a fair amount of reading on the subject so I could understand what I was experiencing.  One of the better recent books was written not too long ago by Shirley Glass and it’s called Not Just A Friend.
With the understanding that all couples can decide for themselves what crosses the line and what does not, in general…if a couple is in a traditional committed relationship…such that they are not agreeing to an ‘open’ relationship etc., then an EA seems to have some key components that make it different than a truly platonic friendship and these components of an EA can end up being just as damaging as a sexual affair, often moreso.

1)   Secrecy.  The secrecy could be anything…about how much time you spend interacting w/ the individual, the content of the communications, etc.  If you find yourself hiding the phone and not wanting your partner to know what you’re up to…then something has shifted.  I would not include in this example people who are with an UNREASONABLY jealous person who have found they HAVE to hide even innocent communications no matter what…I’ve heard of spouses hiding the fact that they went to lunch with their own mother!  So, those circumstances are different.  All things being equal, if you’ve never had a ‘jealousy’ problem w/ a partner, but you find you are hiding some aspect of a friendship w/ someone who under different circumstances you would be ‘hot for’ (it’s a person who if you were single you’d find attractive and would likely want to date) then it’s probably more of an EA than strictly a friendship especially if the next two components are present….

2)   Venting about your partner to someone else, to the point that…this ‘friend’ who is attractive and there is some sexual tension there… …starts to know more about your relationship woes than the person you are in the relationship with …..then it’s probably more of an EA than strictly a friendship. 

3)   I think I read on the previous post something about how love is rather nebulous and it’s kind of silly to think we can control how we feel about others, and that makes an EA kind of nebulous and confusing to pin down.  However, when I was researching this subject, I found that there are certain behaviors that people engage in almost universally that stimulate ‘attachment’ or the feeling of ‘falling in love’.  Almost universally, there is quiet or one on one time together, and a lot of personal disclosure and sharing, and a lot of close and ongoing eye contact…which is your basic ‘courting’ behavior that you will see any couple on a date engaged in (if the date is going well at all) and that behavior stimulates a person’s attachment response…making it possible if not likely to expereince romantic ‘love’ for the person you are doing this with.  This is how people ‘sexually and romantically bond’.  Sharing, alone, with eye contact…if it’s with someone sexually attractive and available, th you’ve got the makings of ‘falling in love’ even if you have never removed a stitch of clothing. So, if we are in a committed relationship…while no one wants to feel like they are in chains and can’t have ‘friends’…. perhaps being aware of the kinds of situations/activities that lead one to stimulate their attachments systems…would be useful information.  If I’m married, I’m probably not going to put myself in a lot of situations with highly attractive men where we are alone, gazing into one another’s eyes and sharing our souls.  While I’m not doing anything ‘sexual’…and I could argue that he’s just a friend all day long and twice on Sunday…I’m definitely engaging in classic courting behavior that will likely stimulate my attachment instincts.  We all have people in our lives who are truly ‘just friends’.  We know what that looks and feels like.  It does not look and feel like dating or courting behavior.  So, when a spouse is having an EA and telling their partner ‘we’re just friends’…and the partner is not buying it…I think it’s because most of us on some gut level know what courting behavior looks and feels like v. strictly friendship.  For many…committed means we are no longer ‘dating others’.  If my committed partner is engaging in dating behaviors…but assures me he is not having sex with them…I am not going to be real jazzed about that.  If I wanted to be with someone who is still dating, I wouldn’t be in a committed relationship...I’d be single and enjoying the freedom to date, too!

4)   And finally, some couples perhaps are okay with EAs but not sexual affairs.  Everyone is different. As a woman, for me, an EA has the potential to be much more threatening than just sex.  If my fiancé went to Vegas, got drunk and did the wild thing w/ some gal and doesn’t even know her name or have her number…I’d of course be very upset for a whole host of reasons including being afraid he did something stupid that might give him a disease.  But it wouldn’t break my heart.  If he came home from a business trip and told me he’s madly in love with his assistant even though they have never had sex…I’d be crushed.  The Vegas hottie poses no real threat to a valued relationship.  The assistant he’s madly in love with poses a huge threat and may likely spell the end of my relationship. 

As for the question of nons perhaps having EAs due to the stress or lonliness of being in a BPD relationship…in most relationships an affair is considered a symptom that something is most definitely wrong or not working in the relationship.  My fiancé engaged in all the EA stuff I just wrote about above for 3 years, but more out of a panic to be alone and a need to feed his ego….while I remained 100% faithful.  Even during ‘breaks’ I was faithful.   But on the last break up, I started seeing someone.  Then my bf tried to get me back.  I did not agree or commit to him, but I had started to re-engage and talk seriously about trying again.  Normally, I’d have cut off the other guy.   However…one night, I still went out with the other guy I started seeing during the last break up, even though I was seeing my bf again.  We ended up kissing at a bar and I got home really late.  I’d have never done that under normal circumstances…I just wouldn’t…but after three years of getting the run around with my bf and all his push/pull and all the women he paraded me through who he kept telling me were ‘just friends’ (they weren’t)…my attitude was at that point…screw this!  After three years of playing by the rules and getting duped every time… enough is enough!    I felt bad about it, but there’s only so much B.S. a person can take. 

[united for now]

I think the loneliness you are referring to is real and an easy status to fall into when you don't feel safe and secure sharing yourself with your partner. We all deal with this loneliness in different fashions, so yes, I could see someone finding themselves in an emotional affair in an attempt to get their needs met.

IMO, most of those people wouldn't be on here though, since this message board is where I suspect most of us - including "me" - get our needs met 

[Lemlover]

UFN,
    It's funny you said

IMO, most of those people wouldn't be on here though, since this message board is where I suspect most of us - including "me" - get our needs met  grin

because I was thinking something along the lines that posting on the boards might be considered EA, when I posed the question.
MaybeSo,
    I totally get what you are saying about the feelings of EA's vs. relationships that are truly friendships. 

While I’m not doing anything ‘sexual’…and I could argue that he’s just a friend all day long and twice on Sunday…I’m definitely engaging in classic courting behavior that will likely stimulate my attachment instincts.  We all have people in our lives who are truly ‘just friends’.  We know what that looks and feels like.  It does not look and feel like dating or courting behavior.  So, when a spouse is having an EA and telling their partner ‘we’re just friends’…and the partner is not buying it…I think it’s because most of us on some gut level know what courting behavior looks and feels like v. strictly friendship.

    Gut level I know H is projecting his EA's onto me.

[MaybeSo]

Gut level I know H is projecting his EA's onto me.

I'm sure your gut is right.  In the example I used of knowing people who could not even go to lunch with their mom w/out the partner getting jealous...that was my older sister.  Her first husband was insanely jealous and monitored her every move.  I was much younger, but was close with both my sister and her jealous husband who was like a big brother to me.  Weird thing is...when I was about 13 years old...and I hung around w/ my sister's husband a lot becasue he was a teacher and had summers off...I witnessed him behaving in ways that would be considered pretty inappropriate with my girlfreinds...also 13 years of age.  Including once telling me to wait outside while he went with my 13 year old gf into her room to 'talk' privately for an extended period of time when her parents were not home.  Even at 13...I felt like...wow...that's weird...something is not right here.  So now years later looking back, I can see, this man had his own issues and was behaving inappropriately...and projected all of his crap onto my sister who was most certainly NOT inappropriate and was always very faithful to him.  After 20 years of his scrutiny and torturing her with accusations...my sister finally did have an affair and left her jealous husband for the new man in her life...and now years later, she is happily remarried to this new man, who thankfully, is not pathologically jealous and lets her be herself and trusts her. It took twenty years...my sister is a very loyal person at heart...but I think you can push anyone to their breaking point.

I also think our guts are pretty accurate in telling us when it's projection.

[an0ught]

We nons often express how our marriages can be lonely.  My question is this (and I am not justifying anything--just asking), are we having EA more, less, the same type of EA's as pwBPD because of the circumstances created by BPD? Any brave souls willing to share?

You know it's only been in the last few months that I've begun to have that lonely feeling in my relationship. I am not lonely but I can sense the feeling beginning to grow. It's interesting that you mention this.

Same here. Actually I find it an interesting feeling. The last few weeks I had times where I was lonely, bored. No spinning head, no need to distract myself to stay sane. Distractions feel shallow. My head seems to be able to do more again. Growing sort of captures that.

[DragoN]

We nons often express how our marriages can be lonely.  My question is this (and I am not justifying anything--just asking), are we having EA more, less, the same type of EA's as pwBPD because of the circumstances created by BPD? Any brave souls willing to share?

Good question, next question...Intent.