PERSPECTIVES: Contact after the breakup [romantic partners]

[Think About It...]

Quote from Want2know:

      "because they so quickly go back into the sweeping someone else off their feet mode, perhaps, while we are in post-break up communication mode, it makes things muddy.  You are dealing with someone who is putting so much energy into getting someone new, that their communication with the ex (us) is colored by pursuing this new person.  If there weren't anyone new in the picture, and their energy wasn't going towards that, there might be more post-break up communication issues than not."

  Reading this was a light bulb moment for me...  You may be absolutely right. I to this day don't know if I was left because she was chasing somebody else, or just decided she had no feelings me all of a sudden, or wanted to focus on some new found cause to "wrap her life around". But, thinking of it through the context of what you wrote, it would sure explain the almost absolute zero contact from her from the day she left.  

[jpounce]

Quote from Want2know:

      "because they so quickly go back into the sweeping someone else off their feet mode, perhaps, while we are in post-break up communication mode, it makes things muddy.  You are dealing with someone who is putting so much energy into getting someone new, that their communication with the ex (us) is colored by pursuing this new person.  If there weren't anyone new in the picture, and their energy wasn't going towards that, there might be more post-break up communication issues than not."

  Reading this was a light bulb moment for me...  You may be absolutely right. I to this day don't know if I was left because she was chasing somebody else, or just decided she had no feelings me all of a sudden, or wanted to focus on some new found cause to "wrap her life around". But, thinking of it through the context of what you wrote, it would sure explain the almost absolute zero contact from her from the day she left.  

[Skip]

  SMP,  my two cents, I don't think Skip meant to say "Maybe she just wasn't that into you", when part of his response to Jalk included. "...The bigger picture would suggest she has little emotion about the whole thing..." I think, He was stating a variation on the same theme of what you had stated in your post, "... They just aren't that into ANYONE..."

   The nature of this BPD thing seems to be such that while they come on like an irresistible force to the object of their affection, and "fall in love", deeply, and quickly, and the whole thing sweeps us off our feet, WE are the ones that actually emotionally commit. They simply can't. That if left untreated, their disorder , if ya look at the big picture, precludes them from doing that, so they "fall out of love" just as fast, and then search for their next "latest obsession". And , because they also aren't really adults emotionally, and their thinking is kinda stuck on a child like level, they literally can't grasp why their behavior patterns in relationships are wrong, on so many levels.

    Because the BPD paradigm, through which they view their relationships is so different than us "nons", they can do things or go through situations, that likely arouse strong emotions in us,  while they feel very little emotion about it at all. Cause like you said, "...Bottom line... these people don't have a bigger picture..."  Well...  they do I guess, but they cant see or grasp it.

Well stated.

[angry hurt]

Well my contact was her texting me after she moved away to where she used to live. Where she had already lined up her next victim that she flirted with on facebook. She gave him a bit of rope and now he's besotted with her. She also has a bloke whom I know she was having an affair with as he was the boss of a shop she worked in as a manageress. I found an email between them ,before I kicked her out, talking of having a meet up soon for sex. Anyway. She was texting me and I nearly went down to see her even though I knew she had these other interests. I decided notg to once I realised she was BPD. This was 3-4 weeks ago.
Last two weeks she contacted me late on a Saturday night. " can we talk without arguing" ? I was sucked in to answer her not to rekindle us but I'm totaly amazed byt the BPD illness now and wanted to see what she had to say. I answered her with "ofcourse" . Her next line was "have you been out?"  ME "yes . Have you? "  Her "Yes its the first time in weeks"
Well I knew this was another lie as she's been back to our home town and has been meeting someone she pulled just after we split. This fella is a bouncer and proberbly dosn't even want to get to know her that well. Just another sex partner.I couldn't help but say the wrong words replying of " I've been to see Frankie boyle tonight and even he wasn't that funny"
She just replied "I don't want a fight after having a good night out . I'm away to bed"
She only text me as her new bloke was at work and she had no male company. End of.

[angry hurt]

I've now changed my phone number and she had me blocked on facebook. When we first split before I knew she was BPD I had set up a secret facebook so we could keep our videos and photos private. As she was saying she wanted me to visit her still and said she'd visit me. I was like what the heck. Anyway. When she realised I changed my number to stop her getting intouch when she was drunk and alone. She unblocked me from facebook and sent me messages on there. She was asking why I had deleted some of our photos and I take it you are not going to reply to the text I sent last night. I told her that my phone was cut off and didnt ask what was in the text as thats what she was aiming at. I said I didnt think you'd log in to view our pics. She asked to have them. So I put them back up. I get a message other night saying "thanx I have the photos I need" and that was it.She was insinuating photos of her and her family but none of me I think. I sent one back being really nice as they can not handle you being nice to them. I said "agh niceone I'm pleased you got what you wanted"
Now I've blocked her from all my emails and face book. If she wanted to get in contact now she would proberbly open new email and send via that. I'll just delete it before opening and block again.
It's hard to have no contact. I keep falling into thinking I'll just play along with her game and maybe get some mad nights of sex with her. But I know I'm better than that.

Time to really move on. I have my interview for the magic circle toinight so I'm putting my head down and using that to help move on. I'm feeling really good about myself again.
Out of my relaitionship with my BPD she has spurred me on in life and I have found a new confidence.

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[Skip]

I keep falling into thinking I'll just play along with her game and maybe get some mad nights of sex with her. But I know I'm better than that.

Agreed.  That would be very bad boundaries.  

I think people sometimes get caught in this trap... we can see the bad boundaries on their side but don't realize that sometimes we have them too.

Joannak has made this point many times. Joe Carver, PhD also makes it one of his essays.  There is something far more powerful with them than no contact.  It's "no interest".

For example (not a criticism btw), hoping for a sex connection communicate is "interest". Blocking the email account and closing facebook actually shows interest.  So then the whole mutaul bad boundaries thing is in play.

"No interest" would be leaving the old facebook account open to her or having your computer delete email rather than kicking them back.

[Matt]

That's one of the hardest disciplines I've had to learn, Skip - just to not respond.  I have all these clever and righteous answers in my head, and I know that if I just say them, that will make her see the light!  She'll realize how wise I am and how important it is for her to begin seeing things the way I do!  And the key is to say exactly the right answer next time she contacts me about something irrelevant or inappropriate!

Of course it doesn't work that way.  When I quit responding - or, since we have kids together, just responded to the kid stuff and ignored the other stuff - things got way less dramatic and pretty soon I got far fewer inappropriate comments from her.  And when I do get something provocative, I get less wound up about it;  knowing that I'm not going to respond frees me from the need to figure out the best way to respond.

[JGirl2]

I'm just catching up this this thread now...

In my situation we are mostly at Post relationship fighting and Blackmailing.

With my ex it's a lot about control and having to control me and the kids.  If we don't act as he wants us to then he expresses that we hurt him in some way.  He gets so upset and even cries in front of the kids when the kids don't want to do what he wants.  It just feels like a constant battle where I now just make it clear that he is not in control of me .  The truth is he was completely in control for a long time - I hate to fight so I just about always gave in.  When I finally said no more - things need to change and took my control back the relationship got very explosive!  Now I'm separated for almost 2 years and very close to finalizing the divorce.  My S16 reacted to the controlling behavior by basically completely cutting his dad out of his life.  S13 is struggling with the issue. And along with the control is the blackmailing - accusing me of many things that are not true and running criminal background checks on my friends. I keep hoping for things to cool down with him but hold no hope for that.  It comes in cycles.. It will be quiet for a couple of weeks and then I will be hit with many accusations and problems.  I feel like I have to keep who my friends are very private because of how he invades they lives doing criminal background checks on them.

Common communication from him would be an email accusing me of keeping information from him. For example one of our kids is being tested to see if he has a learning problem.  I have emailed ex telling him of each appointment I made.  I have gotten emails back copied to his lawyer saying I haven't informed him of scheduled appointment. Since I do everything by email I have proof I did and just forward the proof onto him and his attorney.  I emailed him with my understanding of the testing process after the first time my son and I met the cognitive psychologist.   I got a respond saying that my thought are irrelevant to him and a complete waste of his time and to stop wasting his time with it.  I now just email short one sentence next appointment is so and so date and that is all.  He then gets upset that I'm not telling him more.  Can't win..  What ever I do gets attacked.  I just ignore the attack and communicate as little as I need too, just very professional emails.  The few times I have try to add anything personal to the conversation I would be told he has no interest on my thoughts and ideas.  

Communication is NC except email  or through lawyers.  I know there are other people he has been bad at in the past.  One for over 30 years and with all of them he has never moved past the anger part.  It scared me watching him talk about something that happened 30 years ago and how angry he still was with the person.  He is completely incapably of look at the other persons point of view in that situation and that scared me - the other person is one of the nicest people I ever met!  The anger was at the level where you would believe the event happened yesterday and not 30 years ago. So I'm not holding much hope that the Post relationship fighting stage will end.

He is hurting .. He takes the hurt out on me in what ever way he can.  With him it is so hard to figure out what he wants.  His actions seem to be opposite of what he wants.  He appears to feel hurt and want more information on his children, when I try offering it he attacks me. I just back off and start communicating just what I need to -  which hurts him because he really does want the information I emailed him that he attacks.  It's so crazy!  He also has huge issues with circular arguments and in the past I use to get caught up in these crazy emails with him that just would go on and on.  There is an insane one between him and the S16 that was the last one with the two of them because after that S16 decided to go NC.  Luckily it's all documented in email. I really think he highly enjoys these circular arguments and when he attacks me in email he really is wanting me to respond back to the attack.  I have found that if I say anything about how disrespectful his email was to me, then I would immediately get a 5 page ranting email back.  I now ignore all attacks, try to directly respond to the topic at hand,  and keep the email as documentation.

How can he and I develop some level of communication that works?  I don't see a way.

[Matt]

JGirl,

It seems to me that you have already developed a method of communication that "works".  It just doesn't work the way you wish it did.  (And I think your wish is very reasonable.)

Many of us have found that this very distant, emotion-free and usually e-mail-based way off communicating is what works.  It's sad, because two people who could accomplish much more together - especially when there are kids - good communication should be "1 + 1 = 3".  But that's not how it is for you, or for me, or for many here.  We need to accept that this distance is the healthiest thing, probably for both parties, and for the kids too, under the circumstances.

I've found that over time it's become pretty routine, and everybody's stress is lower, and then I can let down my guard a little, but always watching for signs of a problem, and never expecting to get much from my ex - just a very professional, detached discussion of kid issues.

The key is to get past your focus on your ex - your frustration with him, and your wonder at how he continues to live in such anger when he could get help.  And focus instead on yourself and your kids.  It's a hard shift to make but worth it.

(And hey, just as I was typing this I got an e-mail from my ex:  "Since your income is nearly twice what I make I ask that instead of splitting this summer camp cost down the middle, instead you pay slightly more.  So I would pay $115., and you pay the remainder.  I have already paid the $50."  Sounds sensible, right?  Except that she doesn't know what I make.  The little devil on my left shoulder is saying, "Tell her that she doesn't know what you make, and it's none of her business anyway, and we have a court order that says stuff like this is 50/50 so that's what you're going to pay."  But on the other shoulder is Skip - not an angel for some reason - saying, "The last thing you need is her going to court to demand documents saying how much you make - which, by the way, is way more than twice what she does.  So just agree to what she's asking - it's reasonable - and don't take the bait!"  I think this time I'll listen to Skip...)

[innerspirit]

Joe Carver, PhD also makes it one of his essays.  There is something far more powerful with them than no contact.  It's "no interest".

One of the best points I've ever read here.

[JGirl2]

Matt,

This was the best way I could think of dealing with communication - but I'm not happy with it.  Honestly I want there to be absolutely no contact - but with kids that just can't happen.

Yes, I have bend on some small stuff when I really don't want too.  In your example.  If things were reverse and she made double what you made, do you think she would consider a request like that from you?  Most of the stuff I let slide was because I thought about the lawyer expenses.  I totally understand that he will never accommodate a change in the parenting plan for me under any situation.

I still need to deal with how anxious I sometimes get because of the attacking emails.  It's a lot better that I don't feel like I have to defend and justify myself anymore and I have stopped doing that.  But the emails still depresses me.

Another thing I have been doing is ignoring phone calls.  Both kids have cell phones and the ex can reach them at anytime.  Sometimes the ex wants to talk to S16 and S16 decides he doesn't want to talk to his dad so he ignores his dad's texts and calls.  Ex will start calling the house phone to try to get me or S13 to get S16 on phone.  I just won't have it.  I've accidentally answered his calls a couple of times and he would ask to talk to S16.  I will go to S16 and tell him his dad wants to talk to him.  S16 usually/always refuses to talk to his dad and when I tell ex the S16 doesn't want to come to the phone, Ex starts up accusing me of not really asking s16 and trying to keep  S16 from ex, and so on.  This is a no win situation.  If S13 picks up the phone, he usually lies and says S16 isn't home.  Once S13 gave the phone to S16 without telling him who it was.  S16 was so mad at S13 for days.

[Manon46]

Not sure if I totally understand the thoughts here, but the bigger picture in a objective way..
Still hard for me to understand..I think the biggest after break up piece is indeed the bounderie busting..
Both ways, for me to draw the line, and for him to respect any bounderie..
I saw it frequently as a attempt to re-engage, what in fact was just to keep his what he thought was his..
I  think that for me, my addiction was so heavy, that I only saw what I wanted to see..whenever a part of the bigger picture was revealing, I immediately shut myself up, thinking that he couldn't be that mean, and that he had a bad time, and did love me.
In a way, as I see it now, the bigger picture had nothing to do with me as a person, but all about him and how he could prevend loosing his narcissistic supply.
However I still have trouble some times to see him as demonic as he appears, but I have to.
Now I think, that whatever contact is made by him, which is little at the time, it all has to do with his plans for the future, if he has any, and that nothing actually has to do with love or caring..
He did try to kill himself when the big break up came close, but it hadn't the outcome he desired..I was furious and he became worse than ever..normal people would immediately call out for help..but he despied psychologists, and the situation became horrible..he left and tried again to come over every weekend, and I continued to see what I wanted to see, he was trying and loved me, and was serious about us..
I took a test, told him my kids were going to live with their father..for him that was a sign to push harder..
he left his girlfriend, rented a room, and we started all over, talking about a future together..when it became clear that my children weren/t leaving, he reconnected with her again..deniying everything..left a lot of his things here and his sons.
I thought it was because he wanted out there, and seriously was looking for an appartment..he came over lesser and lesser..and I was detoxing..and in hell...he in heaven with her..
Finally I threw his stuff out and texted him more than thousands texts i guess..he kept saying he was busy looking for a room and a job..he didn/t want a devorce, and still I thought it was because he loved me.
THe bigger picture is that he wanted to have a 'safe house'...
When in an argue his gf kicked him out, or he left..he asked me to write him on my address again and to store his stuff again..this time I refused..
I hardly heard from him again, he moved in with his parents, wanted to devorce right away and that I would arrange that...I did it, and he was gone..last time I saw him, I thought he wanted to talk, and look back at what went wrong and how we could fix it.
He still kept saying I was the one..I still believed he finally hit rock bottom..he needed some papers from me than, I gave it to him...never saw him back..
He owes me money and I never expected to get it back, but he is paying his terms..still saying he misses me..Three months ago I still would have believed him..the bigger picture is ofcourse that by paying me and saying he misses me...he is probably keeping me in the spare zone...not because I am special to him.
Is he that cold,heartless,calculating is that the bigger picture objectively...I guess it is, but I am still very sure at times, that he is very much aware of the misstakes he made by treating me the way he did.
And he certainly does know that what he had with me, he will never reach that again..he knows..but if he cares ?  I still don't know... xoxox

[jalk]

Hi Skip.  Well, I think part of what you said may be correct however, I didn't expect her to acknowledge my feelings of sadness. I knew that she was not capable of acknowleging my feelings. When I went for a jog after she got to the house to visit the cat, I left for my run. More so out of self preservation than upsetting her. I needed to take care of myself at that time. Anything she had to say or do no longer mattered to me. She destroyed my love for her,she cheated and lied to me. I can not be a friend to anyone who lies and cheats. If she thought that possible, after what she did, it only proves how sick she really is.

No, she has no feelings or epathy for me. Has little thought in to anything that will NOT benefit her in some way. The picture of us at the university, had I responded to her with "wow, where can I go see this?" would have been followed with her saying "so, how have you been?".  I have no interest in sharing my life with her. She is toxic.

As far as her happiness goes...she is happy for as long as a three year old is happy with a new toy.  Once she gets bored and tires of the new toy, in this case Smokey (her new love interest), she will be on her way to something or someone else. She has done this six times in the past, that I'm aware of. Who knows? Maybe she had done this more times then I know of. Smokey is number 7. She will be taking her 4th set of vows next spring. Wow!.Incredible!

[Matt]

I still need to deal with how anxious I sometimes get because of the attacking emails.  It's a lot better that I don't feel like I have to defend and justify myself anymore and I have stopped doing that.  But the emails still depresses me.

The simplest thing to do is completely ignore the inappropriate parts and respond only to the appropriate stuff.  If he says, "I hate you and I'm going to be 15 minutes late picking up the kids." you can respond, "Then I'll expect you here at 5:15 instead of the usual 5:00.  I'll have the kids ready then."  (Dumb example but you get the point...)

Another option is to copy his inappropriate e-mails to a third party, with cc: to your ex.  Just forward the note to someone - I used our marriage counselor and our custody evaluator - with no comment.  The point is to make it clear that his behavior will not be kept secret.  That worked for me.

If his comments are really threatening you can always talk to the police or the civil court - maybe an Order Of Protection or Restraining Order.  You don't need a lawyer.  But that might escalate things.

Mainly I think you need to just accept that this is how it is.

[T2H]

I hear what PDQuick is saying.  I guess the two issues I have are...

- we've already stated that many people here may have partners who aren't bpd at all, just showing some of the traits.  So they aren't really disordered, or they may be, but we don't know.  If someone is diagnosed, then ok.  But if not, do we interact and treat them as we would anyone else, or not?

- if we're in the FOG, obviously we're not going to make the best decisions.  Sure maybe we're just boundary breaking like they are - but it seems both sides have very good (albeit different) reasons for that.  Part of being in the FOG is confusion, I'm not sure if being aware and clear that at that time we're simply having bad boundaries is going to help the next time we're FOG'd.

[Matt]

- we've already stated that many people here may have partners who aren't bpd at all, just showing some of the traits.  So they aren't really disordered, or they may be, but we don't know.  If someone is diagnosed, then ok.  But if not, do we interact and treat them as we would anyone else, or not?

Usually it works best to focus on the behaviors, not the diagnosis.

If you have a broken arm, that's pretty clear from the x-ray (and the pain).  And doctors know how to fix it, and you can be confident that it will really be fixed, and will work pretty much like it should.

I wish personality disorders and other psychological problems were like that, but they don't seem to be.  People with these sorts of problems don't always want to be diagnosed, and the "fix" isn't something the doctor can do for you - you have to do it for yourself, with help.  I don't know of anyone with a broken arm who doesn't want it fixed!  And I can't imagine a doctor saying, "Well you'll have to do it yourself, but I'll coach you through it.  Why don't you come in twice a week for a couple of years and we'll see how you're doing after that?"

So we can't always rely on a diagnosis or expect someone with a problem to get the help they need.

Instead, we need to observe the behaviors and figure out ways to deal with them, while staying with the person, or leaving.  That's the shift in thinking that's hard for many of us:  From trying to fix the other person, to learning to deal with them as they are.

[NoMorePain]

Think back to a normal breakup. It is usually tough, and it will hurt one of the participants, usually. Once "the talk" is over, and you have communicated a desire to not see one another anymore, that is usually the closure on the subject. In the case of post relationship contact, there is a firm boundary of not recycling the relationship. That will stand tall in the midst of it all.

The one breaking up will have an absoluteness about it. There is no teetering. There is a core sense of self, and desire. It maintains its thoughts and desires, not wavering in the fear, obligation, or guilt. The one being broken up with may try to recycle the relationship, but will encounter a brick wall of boundaries that quickly stops any and all attempts. Acceptance starts from that point.

Now take a disordered person, and inject them into the process. The big missing element is the strong core sense of self. Their thought processes move laterally depending on the fear and abandonment issues that they experience from day to day. One day, they may never want to see you again, and two days later, they want to have coffee with you. This leads to the massive confusion of the non, and the recycling process begins.

The boundary breaking comes from both sides of the fence. The lack of a core sense of self allows the disordered person to temporarily relieve themselves of any and all boundaries, and instigate contact. The FOG allows the non to take the communications, and read their own feeling into it, in their own utter confusion of the events.

We tend to think of what we would want if we committed certain actions. We judge others behavior, based on our own behaviors. If we call someone, and ask them to coffee, then it means we are interested in them. When someone asks us to coffee, we take the mindset of they must be interested in us. This type of uneducated thinking, leads us to drop our own boundaries. Boundary breaking is boundary breaking, even if it us who does it to ourselves, in our own misperception, or confusion of the events that are unfolding.

This process is a very complicated one, and includes many variables. We are really at the infancy of understanding it. The most useful piece of information, that we must understand in viewing all of this is the lack of core self in the disordered participant. There usually is no continuum of thoughts and feelings present. What we experience from their end isn't concrete, but more fleeting. We try to base our decisions on concrete thoughts and feelings. Thus the large amounts of recycles in these relationships.

i like this.  it makes me feel sane.  because i do have a core sense of self.

[Liss]

I am currently in the make up/break up cycle.  Unfortunately I work closely with my exubpdbf so there is no possibility of NC.  We were broke up for 2 mos, talked at work & thought we'd try again but broke up again just a day ago.  This is very unhealthy for both of us. 

[PDQuick]

Expanded minds bring expanded thoughts.

I am currently in the make up/break up cycle.  Unfortunately I work closely with my exubpdbf so there is no possibility of NC.  We were broke up for 2 mos, talked at work & thought we'd try again but broke up again just a day ago.  This is very unhealthy for both of us. 

Liss, Im not picking on you, just proving a point. You said there is no possibility of NC. This may be true under these conditions. But the absoluteness in your statement is false. There is a possibility of NC, by finding a new job, or seeking a transfer. Kinda rash, isn't it? So, lets investigate a few things, because I'm sure you don't want to switch employment.

The goal here is to stop the recycling, and understanding the dynamics that are in play with your relationship with him. To understand fully, one must be able to detach. You have to come clear of the FOG. This is where a stern boundary can come into play. Lets say that you set the boundary that there is to be no communication between the two of you regarding the two of you. Only professional banter allowed. If he starts asking how you have been, or reminiscing about your relationship, you get up and walk away. You are in control of this, and you have to take the initiative, and the step.

I know, it isn't that easy, is it?

You will probably be the one who breaks your own boundary, by asking how he is, or giving into a moment of weakness and slipping into a conversation, without even realizing it.

Its ok if you do, because afterwards, you will see your part of the dance in the dysfunction, and begin to work on that. You cant control him, but you can erect, and maintain boundaries to limit his affect on you. Then, you can start working on yourself.

During this process, you will inevitably see what it is that we are talking about. You will communicate what you need, and what you will tolerate, and you will see just how he will try to walk all over you, and your desires. In most disordered relationships, this occurs on a day to day basis. The defining factor is that we, as nons, fail to see it consciously. When we are alerted to it, we will will see all of the actions, that the pretty words cover up. Only we can find this out for ourselves. We can't be told by an outside source, we have to hone in on it with our own observations, not ones by others.

Once we have communicated clearly what it is that we desire, we will see what the true intentions, and underlying meanings behind the disorder are. It isn't about us at all. It is more about their needs taking paramount, and ours falling to the wayside. This is the eye opening effect that releases us from the FOG. Once we determine that it is not us that is the focus, but rather them, it is almost impossible to feel guilt, obligation, of fear for the disordered person in our lives.

This is the fine line that thinking that they cheat, because we are inadequate, and knowing that they cheat simply because it is something they desire, regardless of what they have. It is the difference in thinking that we are doing something wrong, and knowing that what we do is consistant, but we are doing them for an inconsistant set of needs residing in a person. Its the difference between thinking that we can't make them happy, and knowing that they, themselves, can't be happy, because their needs and desires change on an ever consistant basis. It depersonalizes the events, and allows us to see the dynamic for what it really is.

In other words, it strips our desires of an outcome, and our rose colored glasses off. We finally, for the first time in these relationships, see things for what they are, not what we want them to be, and how we expect them to be based on our own thoughts and experiences.

I hope you don't mind me using your post as an example.  xoxox

[C12P21]

Now take a disordered person, and inject them into the process. The big missing element is the strong core sense of self. Their thought processes move laterally depending on the fear and abandonment issues that they experience from day to day. One day, they may never want to see you again, and two days later, they want to have coffee with you. This leads to the massive confusion of the non, and the recycling process begins.

I went through this..he offered friendship and one day I was okay, the next, uh no thanks. I know my strong core sense of self got lost for awhile. Really lost. And this concerns me, I am working on boundaries in T and reading books to help. I suspect how he attacked me the last day triggered somethings inside me that were unresolved. The other is getting caught up in the recycling of the relationship, the hope, the magical thinking. I did not feel like myself for a time and am still struggling with a few things. But I know I will get there, in time.

Once we have communicated clearly what it is that we desire, we will see what the true intentions, and underlying meanings behind the disorder are. It isn't about us at all. It is more about their needs taking paramount, and ours falling to the wayside. This is the eye opening effect that releases us from the FOG. Once we determine that it is not us that is the focus, but rather them, it is almost impossible to feel guilt, obligation, of fear for the disordered person in our lives.

This is very true. I got a call today and was upset for maybe five minutes. Then I thought, you know, it is about his need to humilate and control me. I didn't get sucked in, no response, and felt okay. I don't owe him anything, but I owe me peace of mind and sanity. It is looking at him as a disordered person and knowing I don't have to be stuck there with him.
I disagree on one point. I cut off facebook, to save myself from being tempted to look at his posts on friends sites. I cut off the email as a drop, not a reject, in order to save myself from looking every day to see if he contacts me but he doesn't know this. I blocked the phone, to help me detach, not to send a message. to him. I am protecting ME right now.  When I am in the place of "no interest" then I will be able to demonstrate "no interest". Right now I am in the place of shredded head and heart. Too vulnerable. 
I think in a healthy relationship, folks can be friends down the road. But not with this kind of disorder, there is no middle ground, and the mental work it would take to be in the middle ground is not worth the effort.
Thanks for the insights guys.
C

[Manon46]

You said there is no possibility of NC. This may be true under these conditions. But the absoluteness in your statement is false. There is a possibility of NC, by finding a new job, or seeking a transfer. Kinda rash, isn't it? So, lets investigate a few things, because I'm sure you don't want to switch employment.

I found that very true in my own search of recovering, thinking I had no choice, so I couldn't take off, or blocking mail/phone
and in that matter continuing my own suffering, what you are saying is, that you always have a choice..
I did have a choice ofcourse, could have sold my house, took on another job, move away, but it seemed to me to much of an effort, I didn't want to do all that. I didn/t want to make such huge changings which would effect my life and my girls life so so much. I felt I had to be stronger than that, running away,throwing lifes upside down, just because I couldn,t bear the loss and hurt. I truely felt he wasn't worth that...so I stayed, and made my suffering subsidiary to my girls life and peace of mind. They suffered enough..I couldn't let my ego dominate theirs..So I had a choice and made it..and went through hell..
And what it showed me along the way, was his real intention, the glasses fell off, the fog disapeared,it showed me the real him, the real disorder, I had to face it, there was no more running away from it, no more ignoring of facts, I just couldn't, it proved itself..
I never blocked anything, but through it all I realy had to face myself also, my intentions, my wants and needs, which I probably would never had done if I had run away..and maybe that was the most painfull..acknowledging the lies I told myself, the fact I was so addicted, the fact I was so desparate that I found all the excuses to avoid myself and my behavior,which was at times just as disordered as his..did I realy love him?
I thought I did, but deep down I could't found much respect for him, I wanted to love him, but I also wanted him to be what I wanted him to be..for my own sake, not his..actually I came to the point realizing that it was all about me..auch..
He had to stay what I wanted him to be, in order to keep my dream alive..He made me realy look unfog'd at myself..since that became clearer, the bounderies were easier to keep,the pain lessens, the wounds started to heal..
So I made a choice, and not the easiest one, it took a lot and I gained a lot..They on the other hand have a choice as well, but they always (most of them) make the choice of running away and not facing anything..they prefer the easy way out in stead of the right way out, it's always the easy way for them..and maybe if I had not to deal with the house, my children, I would have made a different choice, and might have run away too,the love for my children forced me to do it different..
And afterwards I am glad, it was the right way, not the easy way, and made me a lot stronger and able to see him for what he is, and facing my fears, the fear for the truth, made me capable of dealing with him and took away his power over me.
He is evil and evil hides in the dark, the light of truth makes him powerless,I feel nothing for him, no friendship wanted, no re engagement wanted, he is not even a bad memory, he is just what he is..and not better or worse than me, just different and no longer someone I want to be with..no fear,obligation or guilt left..just no interest..and able to show that..poor him..he lost more than I did. xoxox