OCD/OCPD?

[Think About It....]

Think About It.... It pays to learn to Fair Fighting Rules: * Focus on solving a problem/reaching a solution rather than venting your anger or winning a victory. Think win-win. * Deal with one issue at a time. No fair piling several complaints into one session. * Stay focused on the present. Bringing up the past isn't fair * State the problem clearly - think through what your complaint is, make sure you have all the facts. Avoid blaming the other parent. Use an "I-message" to state how you feel. When the kids come back from spending time with you they are often hungry. I am worried that they aren't getting enough to eat at your house. * Be willing to listen to what the other parent has to say. Summarize what you hear the other person saying. This is called paraphrasing or active listening. * Focus on the problem - not the person * Brainstorm solutions. Be willing to compromise. Give a little to get a little * hoose the best solution that will work for everybody - especially your kids. * Implement the solution. If it doesn't work, schedule another time to talk and pick another solution. ~ Philip M. Stahl, Ph.D.

[JoannaK]

Show women huh? Well I think it's pretty normal to want an attractive woman. Most guys do. I'm just lucky enough to have the looks and charm that it takes to get them. I'm certain that unattractive ones have just as many issues as the rest.

Each to his own in terms of physical attraction..  I would think that nobody gets involved with anybody unless they think the other person is reasonably attractive, and as most people, including people that you or I think are really unattractive, wind up in couples, attraction really is in the eye of the beholder.

But I do think that the concept of "show women" needs to be explored.  There are some people who are simply more naturally attractive...  They don't wear a lot of makeup, don't feel a need to show a lot of skin when they are out and about, don't spend a ton of money on clothes, hair, etc.; would never really consider plastic surgery.  Actually, I would hope that most women have reached this "comfort in themselves" by the time they are in their upper 30's or 40's.  It doesn't mean they don't care about how they look, but they don't spend a lot of time and money on it. 

Then there are women who need to be "on display".  Style, fashion, all of that, may be important to them.  They are terrified of aging and will fight any visible signs of it.   Or they feel a need to be the "hottest" woman in the place, with hair, makeup, sexy clothes, hot shoes, etc. 

My sense, particularly as the woman crosses the border from 20's to 30's, is that the "show women" are often not going to be very stable.  The self-absorption that comes from preoccupation with looks can be a kind of red flag.

So....  what does a woman have to look like (and be like) to be attractive to you in the first place, Beast? 

[KateCat]

Sorry to be cryptic, Beast. I feel there's a tone of competition in most of your adventures. When you and your ex were in tune, you felt you two could "leave the world in the dust." When she left you for fugly, you were particularly upset that she was "out of his league." You speak repeatedly of your personal history, your track record of attracting women, your accomplishments and awards.

And if I try to imagine a guy like Skip or PDQuick having a weekend like the recent "San Francisco" one, I just can't do it. They've moved on. And you seem stuck.

[innerspirit]

And if I try to imagine a guy like Skip or PDQuick having a weekend like the recent "San Francisco" one, I just can't do it. They've moved on. And you seem stuck.

I don't doubt that Beast can defend himself but I find these comparisons neither fair nor constructive.  Let other site-members speak for themselves instead of projecting what their thoughts and experiences would be.

[Beast98]

Not stuck, just still on my way. Does it not make sense when you've been beat down to try to grasp the positives that exist in ones life? That's what I've been doing. And whatever it is it's working for me. I'm not where I want to be but I'm miles beyond where I've been. I'm a man. We're cavemen. It's the hardest thing in the world to accept being left for someone else, suddenly and in the most vile of circumstances. Everyone close to exbpdgf, friends, family, kids all say she's with the wrong guy. Ok fine. But she and I are the only ones that understand the reason. And it took me nearly 2 years to figure it out. Her abandonment issues run so deep that more than anything, she needs a man with few to no other options. It's that simple.

I'm working my issues my way. I don't care to be compared to anyone else. Besides, many here won't express their failures because of the potential backlash. I don't care. But I take all feedback to heart and try to pull out a message that can help guide me. For that, I'm sincerely appreciative. And I'll just keep moving forward at whatever pace feels right. 

[newlife3]

 Hi:
I've been reading the posts on here for awhile but haven't posted. I remember a lot of you..Hi IS..always so thoughtful and kind..
Hope its ok to comment..seems like a tight circle..

Think reflective questions that are non-judgmental are great but after all no one knows Beast except himself, so some of the comments & questions seem a bit intrusive & assuming the worst..

Good for you Beast in being so open & pointing out the assumptions..

I think we can all relate to at times wishing to be in a healthy, positive r/s..As you note Beast, you never dated, just married them..so dating and learning to keep it casual is a good thing..

[KateCat]

And if I try to imagine a guy like Skip or PDQuick having a weekend like the recent "San Francisco" one, I just can't do it. They've moved on. And you seem stuck.

I don't doubt that Beast can defend himself but I find these comparisons neither fair nor constructive.  Let other site-members speak for themselves instead of projecting what their thoughts and experiences would be.

Thank you for pointing this out, IS. It is a very unfair statement, to all concerned.

Maybe I can state my thought less projectively. As you're still searching for your place in the world, and as your own dad seems not to have been the best role model, maybe you can observe and learn from other men your age who seem to enjoy life and have a steady sense of self. Not because they are better than you are, but because you can borrow strategies from them that your own family didn't provide you. I think we all see you so very close to what you could be enjoying . . . but somehow having it continue to elude you in repetitions of old patterns.

[Beast98]

But I do think that the concept of "show women" needs to be explored.  There are some people who are simply more naturally attractive...  They don't wear a lot of makeup, don't feel a need to show a lot of skin when they are out and about, don't spend a ton of money on clothes, hair, etc.; would never really consider plastic surgery.  Actually, I would hope that most women have reached this "comfort in themselves" by the time they are in their upper 30's or 40's.  It doesn't mean they don't care about how they look, but they don't spend a lot of time and money on it. 

Joanna,
I tend to agree with you here in principle. However, there's a demographic to consider. I've travelled this country extensively in my career, and nowhere else have I found the environment for what you describe above like we have here in southern California. There are plastic surgeons on every block. Like the car thing, cosmetic surgery is part of the culture here. I can't count the number of 'enhanced' women I know. And being this close to the border exacerbates the situation because the countless clinics there are much cheaper than here and put that within everyone's reach. The normalcy associated with that here would amaze people from other areas of the country. In fact, recently my own daughter got augmentation, against my wishes. And she's one of the most naturally beautiful, secure women I know. She's literally a poster child for the Mayo clinic, on their kiosk at the airport where their hospital is. But she was self conscious about the scar that her open heart surgery left and I suppose if that helped her, so be it. I just don't think it's a gage in and of itself that a woman has issues, though I'm sure many do.

So....  what does a woman have to look like (and be like) to be attractive to you in the first place, Beast? 

Ok, as far as looks go:

Must have: Pretty face.
Prefer but not at all must haves: Thin over fat, dark features over light (I've been around hispanics all my life), large breasts over small, short over tall, shapely rear over flat.

How should she be?

Must have: Outgoing, having a bit of an edge, or at least acceptant of mine. Conversationalist. Sense of humor. Enjoys sex. Doesn't take life or herself too seriously.

The rest can all be worked around. I've said it before...I've always looked for looks, brains and passion. Now I've added sanity to the list but understand that 4 for 4 may be unrealistic. 

[KateCat]

Any possibility that what you're grappling with is less the culture of Southern California than this particular aspect of your past?

I had a father at home but then not really. We weren't close and when I became a teen he and my mom bought a tavern and were gone until 3 am every night, leaving me to fend for myself in gangland.

I think that could easily generate a sense of anxiety over the thought of missing out on fine entertainment, fine dining, fine company and excellent times, even half a lifetime later. When the thought of being alone on the weekend is challenging, maybe it's the resurgence of that boy who felt abandoned and unworthy of the time and attention his parents were spending on others.

When you do spend time alone, maybe you can feed yourself a steady diet of atta-boys! and pride over the children you've raised and the life you've made for your family. 

[Beast98]

Thanks kate. I was lucky enough to spend some time with my daughter this weekend. Yesterday she picked me up from a car show in the neighborhood I grew up in. Car shows can be very boring, as you're stuck there from early morning to late afternoon. And right now, even walking around the huge park where the show was is tough. I'm still not healed from my accident in Mexico.

I moved to a much more peaceful part of the city when she was very small, so she knows very little about the place I grew up, other than to stay out of there. I took her to this restaurant, that really isn't a restaurant. These 3 Mexican brothers converted a small house on this side street by the high school. There's no sign, nothing. But they make cheap, fantastic tacos, the real Mexican way. She couldn't believe a place like that existed, let alone that I knew about it. And it was packed...Maybe 50+ people crowded everywhere there was space, waiting for the delicacies. She said it's like being in Mexico without being in Mexico. It was another of the many bonding experiences that she and I share. She's probably my best friend.

While at the show, we were hanging out with one of my buddies while he waited for his low-functioning bpdgf to show up. She was analyzing my choices in women. She told him, 'Yeah, my dad's probably dated 15 or 20 women since my parents got divorced, but I've only met about 5, and hated them all. He seems to prefer them kind of trashy'. I was a bit puzzled by that. It makes me think about how perspectives can be so different. Then again, her mother is about as non-trashy as it gets. Do I look for the opposite of her, or with her being on the opposite extreme, does it just make others look that way? Something for me to waste some analysis time on. 

[BPDUSoCrazy]

Do I look for the opposite of her, or with her being on the opposite extreme, does it just make others look that way? Something for me to waste some analysis time on. 

I know it's terrible, but I've found myself shooing away women who I didn't think were as attractive as my ex. It's like I have a standard in my head that I want someone as attractive or more so.

[KateCat]

Go, Beast's Daughter! 

[Beast98]

Do I look for the opposite of her, or with her being on the opposite extreme, does it just make others look that way? Something for me to waste some analysis time on. 

I know it's terrible, but I've found myself shooing away women who I didn't think were as attractive as my ex. It's like I have a standard in my head that I want someone as attractive or more so.

Well SH, I don't think any of us wants to take a step down, ever. But then again, what does that mean? Standards are pretty much a moving target. What comes into our lives, with interest in us...That becomes the pool. No easy answers there.
I often predicted that no matter how many times exbpdgf brought up getting into DBT, she never will...As long as there are willing victims to be seduced. The thing is that as she ages, the quality of man she'll be able to land will certainly decrease. This is I think one of the few cases where men have an advantage over women. 

[Manon46]

Hi Beast,

Trashy?? Odd right, our children see so different, mine did too, with ex..
Afterwards, it surprised me a lot that they were so right..somehow it is our projection, our emptyholes, that looks for the "trashy"persons., In a way, I guess my ex was what you call trashy..not at all my kinda guy..it still puzzles me what the attraction was, and how much was related to the past..
Do you believe, we relive our past in the present..you think your choices has to do with your youth, playing over and over again the roles of the past into the present..
Time to figure out what that role is..think your daughter is right..

[Beast98]

Hi Beast,

Trashy?? Odd right, our children see so different, mine did too, with ex..
Afterwards, it surprised me a lot that they were so right..somehow it is our projection, our emptyholes, that looks for the "trashy"persons., In a way, I guess my ex was what you call trashy..not at all my kinda guy..it still puzzles me what the attraction was, and how much was related to the past..
Do you believe, we relive our past in the present..you think your choices has to do with your youth, playing over and over again the roles of the past into the present..
Time to figure out what that role is..think your daughter is right..

Well it IS all about perspective. She of course can't possibly know these women at the level that I do. Plus I've never been one that hangs labels on people. It's not really fair to anyone involved, me included. Without a firm grip on the true meaning, anyone can be thought of in many different ways. Perhaps I'm also a little trashy, but I'm my kids' hero because of what they perceive in their own worlds. So would they think it even if they saw it?

Plus, the paradigm is that mom and dad are a couple, made for each other and that's it. When we broke it to the kids that we were splitting up, the first thing out of my daughter's mouth was 'You guys deserve an academy award!'. Again...They only know what they see/perceive.

[RedRightHand]

What is wrong with car shows? What's with bashing car shows and "show cars"? I'm pretty fed up with cars and car shows in relation to dudes -getting bashed...we've all heard the "he's compensating for something" stereotype/cliche. I never hear "she has a coach bag to compensate for lack of esteem", "she wears make up..." or "he wears a football jersey...".

I don't think there is anything wrong with car shows if that's what you enjoy. I think there would be something wrong with giving it up because of someone else's critical remarks.

 So I say go the car shows Beast! If someone don't get the Kulture? The hell with 'em!

[Beast98]

What is wrong with car shows? What's with bashing car shows and "show cars"? I'm pretty fed up with cars and car shows in relation to dudes -getting bashed...we've all heard the "he's compensating for something" stereotype/cliche. I never hear "she has a coach bag to compensate for lack of esteem", "she wears make up..." or "he wears a football jersey...".

I don't think there is anything wrong with car shows if that's what you enjoy. I think there would be something wrong with giving it up because of someone else's critical remarks.

 So I say go the car shows Beast! If someone don't get the Kulture? The hell with 'em!

Thanks RRH...A couple of points:
First, love the ID. I write comedy and part of my 'newly single' routine talks about hooking up with my jr. high sweetheart after getting frustrated with internet dating. That sweetheart being my right hand.  

Second, I'll readily admit that I got into the car scene for the girls. I was about 14 or 15 and hanging out outside the local skating rink in the barrio I lived in. Me and a couple of buddies were talking to 4 really hot Mexican girls and seemingly doing well with them. Then one lets out a scream, they all turn around and there's a caravan of lowriders passing by. The girls took off running and within seconds, all of them ended up in one car or another. We just looked at each other. Don't know about them but I knew what I had to do.

I had a car by the end of the summer and within a year or two, I had one of the best cars in the city, and more girls than I knew what to do with. I got absorbed in the car thing, taking up custom painting and hydraulic work. In that particular subculture, me and my friends were treated like rock stars in every way. Yeah, it sounds silly in retrospect but that was the reality I knew. Then when I was 22 my car got stolen and I fell out of the life, which was cool because I was already married with a kid and the allure was pretty much gone.

Fast forward to 2009...I'm now divorced, middle aged and financially independent. I'm at a low in my life emotionally after the breakup with exbpdgf. So what do I do? I find on EBay the exact same model I had when I was a kid, stored in a warehouse in Pittsburg, with 17,000 original miles on it. So I bought it. It's awesome. And the 'scene' has changed. Lowriding is no longer an underground teens and 20s thing...It's now a 40s and 50s thing and quite mainstream, with 'cruising night' car shows nearly every night of the week. I don't get bored anymore. I always have something to do where I'll be around people and bonding with others that think like me and share a common passion. And I'm never starved for attention.

Unfortunately, the thing with the girls doesn't exist any more, but that's cool. I knew that going in. I mentioned in earlier posts that I'm new to dating because I never did it before. I never had to. I just needed to cruise down the main drag or hang in a parking lot with my homies.  

[Mousse]

It sounds like fun to me    Makes me think of the Will Smith song, "Summertime".

Beast, I am a bit curious based on your description of what attracts you - are you actually physically attracted to this current lady?  Or are the puzzling behaviors and the companionship the big draw?  Were you attracted in the beginning, or is it a growing thing?

I truly believe that in the dating/relationship arena, I'm very well behaved. I'm pampering and always trying to show the one I'm with a good time. Not sure what I can do differently at this point.

Maybe stop pampering them (they can tip a spa attendant for that  ).  Just treat them nicely, and expect the same, like you did with the one lady who stood you up (though I'm not sure why the current lady got so much slack for doing that multiple times).  Anyway, in my experience, the ones who tried to pamper me seemed a bit condescending and controlling - I like mutual niceness out of a desire to be mutually nice, without obligation implied.   I imagine a lot of sensible women do.

[Beast98]

It sounds like fun to me    Makes me think of the Will Smith song, "Summertime".

Beast, I am a bit curious based on your description of what attracts you - are you actually physically attracted to this current lady?  Or are the puzzling behaviors and the companionship the big draw?  Were you attracted in the beginning, or is it a growing thing?

Ok, as far as looks go:

Must have: Pretty face. Yes, She's pretty
Prefer but not at all must haves: Thin over fatVery thin, dark features over light (I've been around hispanics all my life)dark features, although fair complected, large breasts over smallMeduim but well shaped (enhanced), short over tallMedium, but shorter than me, but wears very high heals, shapely rear over flatShapely (enhanced).

So yes, I think she's an attractive woman. Although I'd probably prefer that she didn't dress and make herself up like she does...Sort of like a cross between an 80s rocker chick and a 90s gothic teenager. But then, I don't want anyone telling me how to dress.

[/color]

I truly believe that in the dating/relationship arena, I'm very well behaved. I'm pampering and always trying to show the one I'm with a good time. Not sure what I can do differently at this point.

Maybe stop pampering them (they can tip a spa attendant for that  ).  Just treat them nicely, and expect the same, like you did with the one lady who stood you up (though I'm not sure why the current lady got so much slack for doing that multiple times).  Anyway, in my experience, the ones who tried to pamper me seemed a bit condescending and controlling - I like mutual niceness out of a desire to be mutually nice, without obligation implied.   I imagine a lot of sensible women do.

The current lady got slack because I think with each one my boundaries get more rigid. 

I guess by pampering I mean I open doors, I pull out chairs, I try to get the best seats at concerts or the best table at restaurants. I attempt to wow them with my culinary skills...I try to be impressive. I live in the land of the beautiful people. Of the rich and famous. There's tons of competition out there. I'm just an average guy.

A buddy of mine and I were discussing something the other day...Why is it that when you meet a female friend or relative of someone you've started seeing, they always seem to say the same thing to you..."You treat her good, now!". I treat every woman good.

What about us??

[Mousse]

Yeah...I agree with that.  I've never been a fan of "Princess culture", and I can only imagine that you area is like Princess culture to the max, though I have no firsthand knowledge.  I don't know if men talk about how nicely women treat them, like it's an accepted thing.  To be very frank, the single ones I know about seem to devalue the attractive nice girls, or regard them with suspicion, while prizing the high-maintenance ones (some of whom aren't that attractive).  However, it has resulted in at least one not-so-nice marriage after the fairytale wedding.   I think a lot of people like drama, and maybe some men expect women to be demanding.

[RedRightHand]

Fast forward to 2009...I'm now divorced, middle aged and financially independent. I'm at a low in my life emotionally after the breakup with exbpdgf. So what do I do? I find on EBay the exact same model I had when I was a kid, stored in a warehouse in Pittsburg, with 17,000 original miles on it. So I bought it. It's awesome. And the 'scene' has changed. Lowriding is no longer an underground teens and 20s thing...It's now a 40s and 50s thing and quite mainstream, with 'cruising night' car shows nearly every night of the week. I don't get bored anymore. I always have something to do where I'll be around people and bonding with others that think like me and share a common passion. And I'm never starved for attention.

I see nothing wrong with this and I took offense that someone else was making it out to be wrong and it sounded like they were putting you down for it. I think it's awesome that you are having fun with it.
 I've always been into cars too but not for the girls. My pop was a rodder so I grew up with my baby seat behind 4 on the floor and then getting taken to drag strips, tracks and derbys(remember them?) as a youngster. Maybe it's an east coast thing but it wasn't about girls around here.....not that we wouldn't talk to a girl with/into the kulture:)....for me, it has always been a perfect blend of art and science with a large dose of the American way/freedom thrown in.
 I also had a "middle" part of my life where I fell out of the car scene and had a DD that blended in. What I've realized is that "middle" part was not the real me....the car scene is the real me.....conforming to somebody else's idea was a false self. I will never compromise the real me again!