POLL: Have you experienced emotional incest in your family?

[Think About It...]

Emotional incest is the perfect way to describe it. My mother told me I was her "best friend." She used me as her therapist and told me all about her childhood abuse, her sex life, how much she hated my dad and his family, and how great and elite "her" family was. She never referred to cousins as our cousins, or our aunt, it was always her cousins and her aunt. My parents were violent towards each other but no one protected me, I had to protect my younger siblings from being scared and calm my mother down after the fight. I've always felt responsible for her moods and happiness. As long as I agreed to everything she said it was fine. The minute I disagreed she went off in a rage telling me how she's given up her life for her children and this is how I repay her? By making her so angry? She said she gave up getting married a second time so we wouldn't have a step dad. She wouldn't work so she could stay home with us. Blame and guilt constantly. And then when I graduated from college she said it proved she was a great mom and I was smart because she did homework with me and got me on the right track. Nothing was mine, everything felt like hers. She hated my friends and put them down any chance she got, then would tell me how she didn't know how anyone could stand to be around me. As an adult I'm expected to hang out with her and listen to her nonstop complaints about everything and make her feel better. She's mad she can't see her grandchild everyday, "her only joy." How's that for pressure? The boundaries I put in place caused a huge rage on her part. No contact it is. Now that I have my own family I just can't take it anymore.

[peace8]

Emotional incest is the perfect way to describe it. My mother told me I was her "best friend." She used me as her therapist and told me all about her childhood abuse, her sex life, how much she hated my dad and his family, and how great and elite "her" family was. She never referred to cousins as our cousins, or our aunt, it was always her cousins and her aunt. My parents were violent towards each other but no one protected me, I had to protect my younger siblings from being scared and calm my mother down after the fight. I've always felt responsible for her moods and happiness. As long as I agreed to everything she said it was fine. The minute I disagreed she went off in a rage telling me how she's given up her life for her children and this is how I repay her? By making her so angry? She said she gave up getting married a second time so we wouldn't have a step dad. She wouldn't work so she could stay home with us. Blame and guilt constantly. And then when I graduated from college she said it proved she was a great mom and I was smart because she did homework with me and got me on the right track. Nothing was mine, everything felt like hers. She hated my friends and put them down any chance she got, then would tell me how she didn't know how anyone could stand to be around me. As an adult I'm expected to hang out with her and listen to her nonstop complaints about everything and make her feel better. She's mad she can't see her grandchild everyday, "her only joy." How's that for pressure? The boundaries I put in place caused a huge rage on her part. No contact it is. Now that I have my own family I just can't take it anymore.

[amckayn]

She allways yells that I'm her daughter and hers only.

She blames me for not being thankfull enough for all the sacrifies she has made for me.

When she is suicidal she uses me as an excuses because I don't support her unconditionaly.

When I started reading this thread I didn't think it could apply to me... and then I read some of your comments, guys, and it made me shiver. 

Recently my mom has been abusing me so badly (to my face and behind my back) that I've decided to go NC with her. She's even tried to bully my grandma into not calling me anymore. Yet when my grand mother said no, that would be there for me because she loved me, my mom literally *screamed* at her: "NO ONE LOVES MY DAUGHTER MORE THAN ME!"

In hindsight, I find this quite disturbing.

Also, yeah... it's been years since I've been comfortable with my mom touching me or hugging me. It always made me feel very uncomfortable, as it there was some sexual undertone she wasn't aware of. I don't have issues hugging or kissing my dad or grandma on the cheek. Just my mom.  ?

When we all lived together, we'd go wake up my younger brother by... massaging his butt, just like when he was a baby. It wasn't overtly sexual, but I've always found it strange, considering he was 18 then... but I now I find it downright creepy. 

Eww.

[CrazyNoMore]

Ensis was mother’s favorite and caretaker/therapist, chosen to manage her “good” moods, and was rewarded for it. They ... would coo over each other and soothe each other in ways that I was jealous of ...Mother also used ensis to abuse me by proxy.

I don't think my enSis is/was BPD, but this really resonated with me.  I can remember my uBPDM and enSis sitting on one side of the living room whispering to each other while I sat on the other side of the room, alone.  There would be furtive glances at me, and then more whispering.  (Geez, can you get any more "mean girl"?)

I ... was chosen to manage mother’s bad moods, and was punished for provoking them.   

Yup. 

[isilme]

I'm not sure about this...

I know my mom liked to talk to me as her BFF, from a very young age, about everything, including her sexual relationship with my dad, but I don't know if that behavior has any 'label'.

After they divorced and I lived with Dad, and even before, he liked to make jokes to me to, "Walk like you've got a pair," and he'd jerk my shoulders back (I slouched a lot) to shove my chest forward, much to my embarrassment.  This was often in public places, like shopping malls.  He'd also made comments about my rather wide hips at times, "I made you that way on purpose," ? in front of my step-mother of just a short time.  At the same time, though, he told me my legs were too big for shorts and knee-or-higher skirts, like he thought people were starting up them. 

He and Mom both were very bad about inappropriate, sexually tinged humor around me.  But I was not molested - no on touched me, except the doctors Mom liked to drag me to for pelvic exams. 

Even before the divorce, and deferential after,  I guess he felt he should be able to talk to me about anything and everything, and I felt so lost, lonely and unwanted that any attention was welcomed.  I felt that I was the lady of the house (apartment) and I should do all 'grown-up' things, like iron his clothes and cook/clean and listen, grocery shop - all the stuff I'd felt guilty Mom didn't do, and I was trying to be a better person than her.  I was very mixed up, and afraid he'd want to get rid of me at anytime, too.  He was preoccupied with his worries, trying to get a job, life-disappointments and all, and being stuck with a teen daughter didn't help.  He wasn't home a lot after a while, and I was left to fend for myself when he was out late working or courting my step-mom.   

So I think I played substitute wife for a few years, between the ages of 14 and 19.  Is this what this post is talking about? 

[august2000]

I was the chosen child/scapegoat of invasive uNPD father who complained bitterly in secret to me about  HIS uBPD wife, MY mother. I always knew I was one nano second away from being the focus of the same poisonous rage he felt toward her.  Between this and their raging battles, I was a very nervous child.  To this day mother is baffled as to why I was nervous.

  

[Burke]

Ever since I was young, I always felt that my Mom was waaaaaaaaaaaaay too close for comfort.

I was her crying towel, her unpaid therapist, and the unwilling (and disgusted) recipient of dozens of sexual overtures - she wanted a young boyfriend, not a son. Just writing that makes me want to puke and then jump off a bridge.  

[doubleAries]

!

I voted yes on this, as "another or mixed roles" because I don't know yet where I fit. Need to read this again. My first thought was "what is emotional incest?" Then read what it is and my stomach hurts now.

My uBPDmom and my who knows what father (he actually acted kind of like a waif) were divorced when I was an infant. He fought for custody of me, so she turned him to the draft board and he was sent to Vietnam. When he returned, he never dodged his visitations with me, even though it must have really sucked dealing with my mom. I was his only child, but have 3 half brothers (1 older, 2 younger) through my mom.

My father always took me to the big amusement park, out to lobster dinners, bought me whatever i asked for (only if i asked and i rarely asked). but it didn't occur to him to buy me school clothes, shoes, or take me to the doctor or dentist, which i really needed. I was so starved for affection (my mom was a horribly severe witch BPD and i honestly can't remember her EVER saying "I love you" to me even once while i was growing up) that my fathers attention looked fabulous to me. yes, it devolved into a few instances of actual physical molestation as well.

Oh, man--I feel sick. just when ya think ya got this BPD mess all figured out---OMG. there's always MORE!

[GreenMango]

Having a parent like this is a real great way to not ever learn boundaries.  One because you are not allowed to have them. And two bc they make it very hard to keep them once you've found some.

It's a process.  Like the survivors guide. Discover a little.  Make changes.  Get accustomed to changes.  And then right when you think you get a handle on it.  Another discovery.  Maybe its a good one like reengaging a healthier relationship, sometimes its more dysfunctional parenting stuff.

One foot in front if the other.  Looking at ways to help ourselves.

I'm constantly working on boundaries.  How are you handling it?

GM

[doubleAries]

I have a HORRIBLE time with boundaries! And you're right--they weren't allowed. My mom just screamed and raged her way through life and it wasn't possible to "ignore" because she would become physically violent.

My father on the other hand, was more insidious. He was unfailingly polite and "reasonable" and made it so I felt really bad to ever disappoint him. After I was an adult, he basically turned me into his personal slave. When he was married to my (3rd) stepmom, he tried to get me to have a threesome with them. I didn't do it. It was horribly disappointing, because I was 21 years old and pregnant, had just been dumped by "the love of my life" and father of the baby, and I really, really needed my dads help. And here he was, coked up and obsessed with sex.

Later, after stepmom #3 finally divorced him, he became "ill" and wouldn't get out of bed unless he had to, and began to gradually turn me into his slave. He'd call in the middle of the night and say how sick he was, that I needed to rush to help him, and when I'd get there (300 miles away!) he'd send me to the grocery store with a detailed list of very specific items (sizes and styles and brands of products that weren't easy to find) and if I messed any of it up, he'd pout and throw it away and sigh loudly (acting like--but not actually saying--that I was incompetent). Then the next list--take his poodles to the groomers, clean the house, etc, etc, etc.

He died 12 years ago, and I felt guilty because I was so relieved. For so long, I was torn, because on the one hand, he fondled me a few times growing up (first time at 7) and acted very sexually inappropriate sometimes, but on the other hand, he was so polite, and smart, and reasonable, and NICE (compared to my mom). It seemed, in some ways, like his death ended the whole mess. which of course, it did not.

I'm seeing a therapist once a week. "Dad" is our next topic. I also ordered a copy of this book that the poll comes from. This is good advice, GreenMango--discover. Change. Adapt to changes. Then discover more.

But CRAP---I only learned about BPD 2 months ago! Now this! Sometimes life doesn't give the luxury of small bites when we can handle them. It's OK, though. I can assemble the picture of what I'm up against and just start taking bites of it.

Boy, this really hits home about boundaries. I have a big problem there. I have learned a lot about getting past the verbal and physical abuse, but apparently have a ways to go dealing with the sexual and emotional abuse.

Sigh...well, it is what it is...

[JoyfulGirl]

Wow! This term is exactly what I experienced. I never had a way of expressing it fully. I still am the golden child, and my mother although she is in T, still needs me to support her all the time.

She invited me to a church picnic yesterday. I was at my dad's house and I have a TON of things to do before I start my new job 1,000 miles away in June. She was so hurt and mad at me for not attending, but why would I want to go? I don't know anyone in her church, there is no one there my age and all she does is cart me around and tell everyone about me.

I hate it. And she was so mad at me. I felt like a mom who didn't go to her daughter's basketball game...

I am missing all of the nurturing, discipline, and love from my mom and I hate it. She doesn't get it at all though...

[Tygeress]

When I was about 5 years old I remember have a fight with my uBPD mother. I remember shouting "You're a BAD MOMMY!"

After raging, my mother hid in the bathroom and cried. I felt terrible so I apologized to her and told her how much I loved her to console her. And then she said:

"Remember, you can always hurt me more than I can ever hurt you."

And because I was 5 years old, I believed her. From that point on, I felt responsible for her happiness. I felt responsible if she was sad, mad, I felt responsible for the marital problems my mom and dad were having. Whenever they fought, I was the problem solver. I remember once writing notes begging her to unlock the bedroom door during one of their fights.

I was so scared and angry with her for sending me to do this task I wasn't prepared for, that she didn't prepare me for, and that she then punished me for.

Totally relate. She would send me to mail an international letter or address invitations and yell at me when I didn't know how to do it or did it incorrectly. When she never taught me how to do it in the first place.

Silver lining: I am a great problem-solver as an adult!
 

[GreenMango]

Doublearies-  you didn't deserve any if that treatment.  And learning about mental illnesses can be totally overwhelming.  Taking it slow, being really kind to yourself, and doing those things like T are positive steps.

I think you are stronger than you realize.  Looking at the whole thing in one fell swoop can be so.overwhelming.  But in small bits its more doable.

There's a pretty great workshop on boundaries here on Ftf.  You are not alone in working on these and they can be really difficult because it goes against the grain on everything we've been taught.

Joyfulgirl-
Once there's a name to what's going on it can be that ah ha moment.  A parent with BPD can be like an overgrown child.  Their immediate needs seem to trump ours...even when your in the process of moving for a new job.  I mean seriously the guilt trip over this is pretty thoughtless.

BPD manifests in some distinct ways...lack of identity (relying in kids to fulfill this and no clear boundary between themselves and us) and lack of empathy (putting themselves first) are a few.  It doesn't make it any less painful or inappropriate.  But if you know what your dealing with it may help to refine your approach to protect yourself.

Do you have support through this?

Tygress-
It's awesome you found a silver lining.   

GM

[MomsBestFriendNoMore]

As you can probably tell by my username, YES, I was the chosen child (and only child) enmeshed with my uBPDmom 

[GreenMango]

MBF

That must have been a diffcult situation to navigate out of.  Sounds like you've come out of the FOG.

GM

[MomsBestFriendNoMore]

MBF

That must have been a diffcult situation to navigate out of.  Sounds like you've come out of the FOG.

GM

Getting there    with help from this board!   

[RKV]

This is a very tough subject for me. I might post more later but for now I'll just say that my relationship with my mother when I was a kid was disturbingly close to this description. She has been extremely invasive/overbearing in my life. I was treated like an adult when I was a child and am now treated like a child when I'm an adult. She told me what classes to take in HS, singed me up for things and basically made decisions for me about anything important, even into adulthood. I wasn't given much opportunity to make mistakes and grow.

My sister and I used to be extremely close. But things started to get weird. If you look at some of my past posts you'll see what I mean. She would tell me intimate details about her sex life, would drunk dial me multiple times a week, and has actually asked me "anatomical" questions . It's like she feels like I'm the only "safe" male in her life but it's very very creepy at times.

[claudiaduffy]

The first time I heard the term "emotional incest" (incidentally, before I knew what BPD was), I knew exactly what it meant and that it was what I'd been looking for a term for since I was quite young.

Compared to many of you, what I had to put up with was mild.

-used as an emotional soundingboard anytime she felt my father didn't love her enough
-treated the times my father and I spent together with suspicion, like I was stealing him from her - "You don't love ME like you love him. Why don't you want to sit next to ME at dinner? Why did you get so excited about a trip with him and not with me?" This didn't apply constantly, as one of her complaints about him was that he wasn't involved enough in his children's lives (I have no clue why she thought that...he was really a good dad, except for not seeing how much we needed to be rescued from her), so she liked it when he chose to spend time specifically with us...you could see her fighting herself on what her response was going to be
-she loved to make my sister and I uncomfortable by allusions to sex. For example, on a road trip, we're all comparing notes on our favorite things - favorite smells, tastes, sounds, and so on - and I asked what everyone's favorite sensory feeling was, expecting things like "a rabbit's fur" or "strong wind on my face." Mom just got that smirk on her face and smugly said "I can't tell you my favorite feeling. It's something only for married people." I was probably nine years old at the time and knew enough to have a vague idea what she meant. But it was that kind of thing constantly.
-she also wanted me to be her personal little facial groomer, helping pluck her eyebrows and stray hairs on her chin/throat/etc. This absolutely disgusted me, especially since she wanted to lie with her head in my lap so I could 'see them easier.'
-the emotional crap got much worse as I got older. While she refused to let me date all the way through my first four years of college - until I finally stood up for myself and told her that since they were no longer supporting me, I was going to make my own choices on the matter - she cried to me from my late teens on about things like "Daddy doesn't kiss me like he used to", "I tried saying something flirty to Daddy and he made a mean face at me," all the way to "You have no idea how much I miss him having sex with me. Now he won't even look at me. It's been so long since I've been touched..." dissolving into sobs - all while getting progressively more suicidal, putting all the pressure on me to cheer her up as I used up calling card after calling card in our hall commons phone.

Nowadays I don't put up with it, but she still tries. Usually she'll try to back into it - "Oh, I wanted to let you know a praise report about my life. I asked God to help me be nice to Daddy on our anniversary and not expect anything from him, and when I hugged him he didn't jerk away from me, even though he didn't hug me back, and the Lord helped me to be happy about that instead of being sad..." I finally had to tell her that I can't listen to any topic that involves my dad. He finally left her a few months ago, and that kind of thing eased up, but just this week she was wanting to know if I ever talked to him and if it was him who called me or if I was the one who called him...

Sigh. I wish I had a robot to send to her to help ease her misery. She IS miserable. I certainly can't fix it, and much of it is her own doing, but her lifelong feelings of abandonment finally have some basis in reality now.

[doubleAries]

Green Mango, I'm not locating the workshop about boundaries you spoke of in your reply...where can I find it?

This is so creepy! But all these things I have learned in the past 2 months are also a relief. There are actually names for this garbage!

I never thought i'd ever be able to explain my mom to anyone--ever. Come to find out, she's a text book witch BPD! And my dad--that always seemed even more complicated. An example: when I was 14, my mother shipped me off thousands of miles away to "the brother Roloff's home for girls"--a fundamentalist Baptist "attitude adjustment" private juvinile hall of sorts. My dad sprang me from there after a few months of hellish abuse and torture (seriously--google this place up!) and had me come live with him. I was pretty shell shocked for quite a while. I'd been living at my dads for only a few weeks when he had this party at his house and all his friends were drinking hard and using cocaine. The later it got, the more grotesque it got, with my dad making all kinds of sexually explicit jokes and innuendos. After everyone finally left, he and my stepmom got into a big argument and he came into my room and crawled into my bed and started fondling me, breathing booze breath on me and sniveling how (stepmom) was being mean to him and he needed some affection and couldn't get it from her so basically it was my job, and I owed him the "love" he "needed". These weren't his words of course--his words were more self pitying and manipulative. I finally got him to go away after a lengthy argument about whether I was a virgin or not, and the next day he acted like it didn't happen. When I brought it up, he acted like I was rude and unreasonable and being controlling. Wasn't too much longer before i ran away from "home".

[Sunny Skies]

I don't know if this counts as emotional incest, but there were many times that I felt like my mother treated me more like a significant other than her child.

In my 20's is when my parents really started having marriage problems. Whenever my parents were fighting, my mother would act like my new BFF. Confiding in me all of her problems with my father.  But as soon as my parents made up (for the time being),  she would get sort of distant with me. Sometimes even cold towards me.  And then when they were fighting again, she would get into BFF mode again.

Or when my father would go away on business during the week.  At that time,  I was the BFF.  But when he'd come home on weekends,  my mother would treat my like a dumped significant other.  Just a totally different behavior towards me.  And this pattern would continue.

Several months ago before I went NC,  she told me that I was her "best friend".  For some reason that made me uncomfortable.  I told her that my husband was my best friend, and that shouldn't her husband be hers?   And she told me "Up until 10 years ago,  he WAS my best friend."
10 years ago is when they started having marital problems and have chosen not to seek counseling for it.

But there have been other things too.  Like when she'd get annoyed with me if I didn't want to go to church with her, or if I didn't want to go shopping with her, or if I didn't want to pursue a specific career that she thought I should.

There was absolutely no mutual respect in the relationship.  She would sometimes ridicule me or make fun of me or criticize me.  But if I were to do the same to her?  She'd go running to my father in tears and he'd start yelling at me like a bully.

Meanwhile I'd watch my GC brother get treated like an adult.  And he would often be rude to my mother, like a brooding teenager (even though he's in his early 30's). But my mother would never get offended by his rudeness.  
I'm not saying I should be allowed to be rude towards my mother,  just showing how unbalanced her behavior is depending on who she's dealing with.

[GreenMango]

Sunnyskies,

Yeah parents over sharing or having one lean on us in inappropriate ways during times when the other parent is absent falls into this too.

When parents don't have the emotional maturity to self soothe or problem solve their stuff in appropriate ways can get put on the kids.  Gripeing to the kids about dad when he's fallen short of moms expectations is also a form of triangulation and a lack of boundaries.

Doublearies,

Here's the link to the boundaries workshop http://BPDfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=132527.msg1298413#msg1298413 .  I bumped it so it should be on the front page.of coping.

GM