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Author Topic: How do you figure out what is normal?  (Read 666 times)
Mike76
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« on: February 29, 2012, 04:07:03 PM »

I know that is a hard question, but there must be away.
I know it is about us, not them. In my case my uBPD wife.
I know it is different for everyone, but...

We may have a therapist\consular, but they really do not answer.
For the most part our support network may tell us when we are screwing up, but if we complain about something they may just listen and agree even if our BPD is the one that is correct.

Few examples...
Comments in the social situation...Everyone has different traits, but how do I know what is truly in a wrong and correct.
Complaints about things we do wrong... yes we may not be failures as they may tell us but we do make mistakes. Forgetting a glass in the other room... Yes I was sloppy, but... I know I should not have left it there, but I did not deserve the way she treated me. I am not talking about the boundary, just what is can they or can they not get upset at use for.


We try to make boundary's to protect us, but how do we now we are make the correct boundary's and not just a "feel good", or one out of spite.

From what I have read, DBT therapy may correct them, but I am asking more from this direction.

Please tell me 10 things you would like to change about you wife...

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10

And then have someone respond 3,7,9 will not happen no matter what marriage you are in. I know different people have different values etc, but there must me some normal or role of thumb.   I also feel 4 years ago I would have been about to answer these questions, but I now feel clueless.

I know nothing happens without change, my consoling helps with some change. I just know there is much more change in me that needs to happen.  If we are having a issue on something, I know I need to give sometimes.  Is this when marriage consoling comes in?








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jessicapuppy
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« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2012, 04:45:47 PM »

Hi there Henry35

At the start of my relationship with my exBPD/NPD bf, I was very clear about what was normal, what was not...what was right, what was wrong.  3.5 years later I was so much in the FOG, that I couldn't really tell my arse from my elbow!

I think that his one of the major confusions about this illness; we, as non-BPD sufferers, start to question our own behaviour and sanity.

I think the answer is to 'Take a Step Back', as can be found on this website.

JP
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GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?
This board is for analyzing and making the decision to either continue working on your relationship or to leave it. If you have already please advance to "L3 Leaving" or the "L4 Staying" board.
All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)
Shanley
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2012, 08:37:00 AM »

henry35,

My T is great for helping me with what is "normal". Yours isn't? That's pretty important if a person has someone with a PD in their life.

So what do you do if your w loses it over you forgetting a glass? Do you stand there and listen to it? Or do you leave the area?
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PDQuick
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2012, 08:57:43 AM »

Lets take care of the simple stuff first.

I couldn't really tell my arse from my elbow!

If you are sitting at your computer, reading this, the part you are sitting on is not your elbow.  grin

Normal is a relative term. Just like "right" or "wrong".

I have a friend who's mom was killed by a drunk driver when he was 12. Alcohol, to him, is never right, always wrong. I can respect that because of his experience.
I have another friend who drinks like a fish swimming a marathon. he never gets into trouble, is always responsible, and has a good time. I can respect his right, and admire his ability to keep it under a sort of control.

My first friend can't stand the other friend, because he drinks. The second friend laughs at the first friend, because he says that he doesn't know what he is missing. Who is right? Who is wrong?

Well, The first friend is right, and the second friend is right. The question isn't what is right, or what is wrong, but the question is, what is right for you?

It is the cloud that surrounds us that helps keep us in these situations. I didn't have a strong sense of what was wrong, or right, for me. I waivered, and to be totally honest, at times, I didn't care.
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Mike76
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2012, 09:49:34 AM »

Thank you for you great example PDQuick... I think that is a lot of what I have struggled with.

Shanley... My therapist has not been helping as much as "what is normal", but  I am aloud to have my own values and choices.

I do like PDQuick response but my struggle is...(2 people can be correct)

2 people (especially friends), can have different ideas values, if you dislike a value walk away
2 people in marriage can also have different values, but not as easy to walk away. It is so much harder to have different values, if one has BPD.  They lose the reasoning skills for for a conversation or compromise.

I guess it is just one of those Black\White issues

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PDQuick
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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2012, 10:02:09 AM »

That is where our own boundaries come in. I can respect a persons right to have their own ideas, thoughts, desires, and needs. I use to think that someone had to be just like me to be compatible, hence all of the fighting, and misunderstanding in my relationship. It was in my ignorance, non acceptance, and lack of boundaries, that I allowed myself to, first, be in a relationship with someone with such differing communication styles, thought patterns, behavior patterns, morals, and values, and secondly, think that I could try to change all of those things to match my own.

If you dig deep down into these arguments that we have had, they weren't so much arguments, as an incompatibility, fueled by an nonacceptance, by both sides, to understand each other, without trying to force our own thoughts, and desires on them.

We were just as much at fault as they were.

If we took them at face value, and didn't try to change them to match what we wanted, we would have walked away a long time ago. But, since we were distracted by our own desires, and attempts to get them to be who we wanted them to be, we continued the dance.
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jessicapuppy
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2012, 11:56:36 AM »


If you are sitting at your computer, reading this, the part you are sitting on is not your elbow.  grin


That's what YOU think!  I just sat on my false arm!   wink


...we were distracted by our own desires, and attempts to get them to be who we wanted them to be



Guilty as charged!  My ex BPD bf was so much younger than me, that I thought he would mature and change as he aged.  He told me that he needed to be guided as he hadn't had a relationship before, and so I obliged.  BIG mistake!  If you have to tell someone how to empathise with you or how to communicate without yelling at you over seemingly minor worries, then you need to see the giant red flag slapping you across the face!

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nylonsquid
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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2012, 12:25:42 PM »

That is where our own boundaries come in. I can respect a persons right to have their own ideas, thoughts, desires, and needs. I use to think that someone had to be just like me to be compatible, hence all of the fighting, and misunderstanding in my relationship. It was in my ignorance, non acceptance, and lack of boundaries, that I allowed myself to, first, be in a relationship with someone with such differing communication styles, thought patterns, behavior patterns, morals, and values, and secondly, think that I could try to change all of those things to match my own.

If you dig deep down into these arguments that we have had, they weren't so much arguments, as an incompatibility, fueled by an nonacceptance, by both sides, to understand each other, without trying to force our own thoughts, and desires on them.

We were just as much at fault as they were.

If we took them at face value, and didn't try to change them to match what we wanted, we would have walked away a long time ago. But, since we were distracted by our own desires, and attempts to get them to be who we wanted them to be, we continued the dance.

I personally am very 'grey'. I just accept people as they are. My exBPDgf (on going?) however was being driven mad because of my acceptance of things. When she demanded I do things I recognize that not only is it for the better but it's better for myself. Like, get out of bed faster and on time or make her coffee in the morning. She challenged me on being a better person and I was more than happy to oblige. However, she was just frustrated on the minor things. I once was almost scolded for folding my clothes TOO neatly. Apparently I was doing this on purpose to show I can do it better than her. This blew my mind.

Throughout it all when I was given such a challenge I'd just be calm and communicate in a loving voice. She's always said that talking to me is so frustrating but rewarding later on. I don't think she could take that I accepted her with all her faults. The more I was understanding the worse she looked and the more she couldn't take that part of herself. She just only accepts being the sexiest, most athletic, most intelligent and funniest woman around. Anything else is so terribly gross for her to look at. And I see through it and it drives her crazy.

That's what I think any way. Some of my values can change and I think it's fine to do that if it's for the better. My core values, trust, communication, understanding and loyalty are there for life. She ran away from those. That's the hardest thing for me to accept.
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We are all children loved and unloved.
You marry someone who's like the parent with whom you had the most troubling issues.
When you say "no thanks" to something (or someone) that's not a good fit for you, you're saying "yes please" to something better up ahead.
Mike76
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« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2012, 12:28:21 PM »

I warning sign I should have seen is the lack of previous relationships my wife has had. I suck it up as nothing. I do\did love her, just because of this I should not have ruled her out.

If you dig deep down into these arguments that we have had, they weren't so much arguments, as an incompatibility, fueled by an nonacceptance, by both sides, to understand each other, without trying to force our own thoughts, and desires on them.

We were just as much at fault as they were.


I struggle with this a lot and blame myself, for my faults.  What could have, should have I done... I know not to look back, but it is so hard not to.

The arguments as incompatibly, this is one of the first things that let me to the fact I had a problem in my marriage.  I share very little of my story(problems) unless I feel they are trusted.

I would with mostly woman.  Reflecting back a few years ago a remember mentioning agreement I had with my wife, I was given this look like you fought about "THAT".  Shortly have that I never shared much, maybe I should have because I would have started on the road to recovery sooner.  So many of the fights that we have had are over such stupid things.  I learned a few months ago to walk ago, I have got pretty good at walking away.

Part of my question is, When does my wife get to pissed at me? When do I walk away?  When do I need to change? When do I just not give a damn and know I can feel the way I wish to?
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Shanley
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2012, 08:11:34 AM »

Have you seen this thread, henry35?

http://BPDfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=166344.0

It is not "normal" for someone to insult or scream at you because you forgot to pick up a glass or something equally trivial. Remove yourself every time. And if she follows you, keep going. If you have done something that needs to be discussed, it should done without screaming or name calling. Nearly always.

It's hard to grasp at first (FOG) but this kind of stuff is not really about what you've done, it's about how she feels at the moment. If there's nothing she can yell at you for, I'll bet she'll make something up, right? The more you stop being there for her to rage at you, the more you'll be able to see this. Really, try it!
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Mike76
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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2012, 09:33:29 AM »

My FOG is deep right now... I have done some reading but I am struggling to get out of it.  I will just keep trying.

So I do not need to open a new thread I am really struggling with forgiveness.

Without getting into the particular my uBPDw, she has really been giving me a hard time about a issue at church.  She does no like the timing I use with it( if I put it up while standing, although most of the church does what I did).  She keep telling me it is not about everyone else, and if I do not abide by her I am a failure as husband, and horrible person.   She has raged at me many times over this issue, on the way home in the car.  Using some of the tools I have learned from these boards I guess I may have finally communicated to her that she can not talk to me this way about this issue.  That I will not accept and this can not happen.  I say this because she apologized to me the other day and said "I should not have said those those about this issue, I placed unfair expectations on you".  I was hard for me to take in, because she has never really apologized for  anything and I realize she can back track tomorrow, next week, or next month.  How do you accept an apology with congratulation or to much validation?

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jessicapuppy
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2012, 03:36:17 PM »

I'd have thought just a 'thank you' would suffice.  I don't suppose you want to make too much of the issue, as it may have been quite hard for her to say, and she may not want to make a big deal out of it.  You could perhaps say 'Thank you, that means a lot', if you wanted to let her know it was really appreciated.

I'd be interested to hear what anyone else things is the correct response...
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Mike76
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« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2012, 03:47:18 PM »

Problem is I did say "Thank you"...

She seemed to want something more that... Not sure what?  She said, that is all you are going to say?

I guess I should have added that before
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jessicapuppy
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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2012, 04:15:47 PM »

Problem is I did say "Thank you"...

She seemed to want something more that... Not sure what?  She said, that is all you are going to say?

I guess I should have added that before

Okay, so seemingly she was apologising in order to be praised!  Perhaps adding '...that meant a lot' to the thank you, might have sufficed? 

Did you ask her what she was hoping you'd have said?
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Mike76
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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2012, 06:29:30 PM »

she pretty much wanted praise as you suggested.

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jessicapuppy
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« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2012, 06:36:17 PM »

she pretty much wanted praise as you suggested.



Yes, that sounds very familiar!

My ex once told me he was jealous of my dogs, because I praise them more than I do him!  I asked him if what he was saying was that he wanted to be treated like a dog, and he said yes!
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