SELF-AWARE: Has the anger gone too far?

[Skip]

Us: When has the anger gone too far and become detrimental?
Is resentment blocking your healing and recovery
for BPDFamily.com members disengaging from a romantic relationship

You've read the vitriol on the Internet - you may have even participated in it yourself. Here are some quotes on BPDFamily...

"These people (with BPD) are emotional vampires..."
"They are all the same, they suck us dry, we are only supply to them, then they move on to another innocent victim..."
"They are all evil, pure evil..."
"They hunt for their marks, good and giving people like us, and then they strike..."
"Watchout, they will suck you back into the relationship - no matter how hard you try to get away..."
"LOSERS!..."

So, is this helping us or hurting us?  Does this sound more like healthy anger or unbridled resentment and dysfunctional coping?  How do we know when has the anger gone so far as to become detrimental to our healing? This is the topic of this workshop.

Some thoughts to kick off this discussion...

Healthy Grieving  We all know that it is important that we grieve the end (death) of these relationships.  The grieving cycle, according to Elisabeth Kübler-Ross, M.D includes Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance.  The duration, order, and a degree of each stage varies with the individuals.

Dysfunctional Resentment  Resentment is a mental process in which we repeatedly replay a feeling, and the events leading up to that feeling that angers us.  With resentment, we re-experience and relive events in ways that affect us mentally, emotionally, physiologically and spiritually in destructive ways.

According to Mark Siche (author of Healing from Family Rifts), resentment happens when:

• We feel what people did to us that was unnecessarily mean, hurtful, and disrespectful or humiliating

• What people in our lives did not do for us mean, hurtful, and disrespectful or humiliating

Resentments are often justified - but are they helpful?  

So how does a little venting hurt us?  When we are resentful, we try to balance the wrongs we feel by demeaning the person that hurt us.  We bash them, feel disgust for them, feel hatred or look down in pity... we may even wish them harm or lash out to hurt them or their reputation.

The problem for us is that we create a dysfunctional and false reality to sooth our pain.  And in doing so we cling to a futile need to be right or be superior, which overrides our capacity to heal and to make healthy changes in our lives... usually because we don't know any other way to come to grips with the painful feelings of hurt, rejection, and abandonment.  

At BPDFamily.com, the staff has had the opportunity to watch 1,000s of members process the failure of a BPD relationship and clearly, those that exhibit the most vitriol and resentment are the last to heal - if they heal at all.  Lets face it, the hallmark of a BPD relationship is emotional immaturity by both partners.  The idea that one partner was healthy (loving and giving) and the other partner was dysfunctional is seriously flawed.  BPD is a real mental illness and a person with this disorder will have a history of failed relationships.   However, an emotionally mature and grounded person does not get into such relationships and even if they accidentally fell into one, they would reassess their decision process and values, make changes - not get caught up in extended makeup/breakup cycles and come back time and time again.

When we are caught up in the resentment, it obscures both our vision and motivation to identify and resolve the issues that plagued us in the relationship... such as relationship skill (e.g., selecting emotionally impared partners, confusing sex with love, etc.) or even things like our own issues (e.g., co-dependency, narcissistic, schizoid or other traits) or immature

According to Siche holding resentments is choice.  

Are you making the healthy choice?  

If you are angry is it healthy anger or unhealthy anger?

What are examples and signs of unhealthy anger and resentment?

How can we be mindful and change our direction?

We look forward to a meaningful discussion on the subject!

Skippy

[sandyb]

I can understand why there is so much anger displayed by members, I am sure that for many, if not all, that the anger stems from the oft huge shortfall in expectations from a partner, family member, or relationship of any type.

I think there is also a huge aspect of the anger we perhaps have with ourselves, at least I have struggled with that, and still do. I don't actually think I was ever able to be angry toward my ex despite the justifications. Perhaps there is something in not being able to display anger that is equally disabling? Either way I believe that holding on to any residual anger and I suppose in essence apportioning blame for any length of time is toxic and self defeating, stems healing, growth and the opportunity to be joyful, happy, and create new.

The focus is all important, I try (with varying degrees of success) to stay in the here and now, the acceptance, and self forgiveness are still a work in progress even after a long time.


Sandyb

[Mystic]

I have experienced the anger and I understand it.

I have never been an angry person.  Always been told I was overly tolerant, overly forgiving, etc.   

I've been though seriously bad/abusive relationships before, but never anything like my experience with ubpdnpdexbf.  Never.  This was in a league of its own.   

It was like a psychological rape.  An unbelievable emotional violation.  Toss in the physical end of it, the financial end of it, and it's then like a whole life rape.  Pretty bad stuff to handle from someone you loved and trusted.   

I really felt that short of murder there was nothing more this person could to do hurt me. 

Anger?  Heavens, only a corpse wouldn't feel it. 

But. 

It has to end.  Anger is a good thing...it's like pain...tells us when something's terribly wrong, and that we need to deal with it.

And I do believe the anger we read here is just that, people dealing with their pain, in what is believed to be a relatively anonymous environment where they are relatively safe to vent those feelings, feelings that are not easy to vent IRL. 

The thing is, anger needs to be a finite thing.  It needs to be released, examined and dealt with effectively or it can turn inward and harm us. 

[SlipKnot]

this is going to be a good discussion, thanks for the topic skip.

anger has been a good friend to me for a lot of years now. it is debilitating, and hurtful, and damaging to the extreme, but it is also numbing. better than drugs or alcohol. let it take you completely and you can bury any emotion you dont want to deal with, like guilt. afterwards, there is the numbness where you are free of having to deal with any emotions for a time. just like drugs. and there is an addictive quality to anger also. i suppose it is the adrenaline rush. since i got married, i havent been able to share my feelings safely (not with ubpdwife surely and not with family or friends because i wasnt allowed to have any), or feel that emotional connection with another. i realized early on that there was something seriously wrong with my marriage, but her promises kept me in until the kids started to arrive. she even told me many times back then "i know i'll feel better when we have a baby". she never felt better. i missed opportunity after opportunity to leave and i hate myself for staying, for what i have become, for the things i have done. most of the time, i can look at things objectively and from a viewpoint of my own personal healing. sometimes, though, my old friend is a great and familiar comfort and escape. also, im not quite sure if i am angry with her because i dont love her any more, or if the anger is my way of making sure i stay not loving her. hmm

SK

[othello]

I think it's healthy and almost necessary for us to express some anger, especially in this environment, where there is an element of safety - the great sounding board of the message board community. I think also most of us have anger born mainly of frustration or the unfairness of the treatment we received

I think it becomes dangerous if we rely on that anger as the thing that drives us, or choose to just be blanket angry at them - in effect paint them black.. We then loose a part of us and become like them.. Where it's easier to blame it all on them and play the noble victim, grimly carrying on in the face of adversity, when we should be angry but honest with ourselves, not let the anger, or whatever emotion we might feel, drive us, or stop us from accepting our part of responsibility

[Checkmate]

The anger for me got out of hand last week when I lost it ... I swear if anyone had seen me they would have thought I was the crazy one ...

When the anger has gone too far? For me, it's now ... I"m not acting like the person I usually am ... Today, I made an appointment with a therapist to sort this out ...

I"m not an angry person by nature. I don't like this. So I'm going to change it before it becomes a permenant part of who I am.

[Attagirl]

Good topic--thanks, Skip.

I think anger is a necessary part of the process of healing, but it's only a part. If we stagnate in it, and that anger becomes our identity, it's not healthy. You're right that we get to choose. I woke up the other day and remembered that old saying, "What you focus on expands." Yikes! I've been focusing on perceived injustices and my angry reaction to them. Do I want more of that, or do I want to move on with my life? Time to turn my attention to what I DO want.

I'm not stuffing my anger. I'm working to acknowledge it, then transform it into a catalyst for understanding my own issues, especially those that let me stay for far too long in a relationship that didn't serve me (and honestly it didn't serve my ex either).

Another thing I remind myself is that resentment blocks flow. Wish I could remember where I first read that--it has stuck with me for about 15 years. I used to have that in big letters on my refrigerator. It's time to print it up again.

[anker]

Being able to safely vent my anger here and receive strong feedback on it helped me work through it in a way that kept me from acting badly.

Knowing that I was speaking to others who had been through such betrayal and weirdness helped me. I am glad I let out a lot of my anger here. Being able to express it to people who understood allowed me to find ways to move forward instead of being stuck.

Also the anger allowed me to disengage after a while. My concern and compassion were qualities my dpdxes used against me. To be able to shed that for even a little while saved me from a lot more misery.

Anger is healthy and expressing it here can help a lot. It's good that the folks here discourage those of us in that stage from acting on our angry impulses. I think everyone needs to hear that at some point.

[Skip]

Just a point of perspective - a discussion about unbridled resentment and dysfunctional coping is not "is anger (a natural part of grieving) healthy?" - anymore than a discussion about obesity being about "is food healthy?"

In both cases, the very thing that sustains us can actually be taken to a point that it harms us.  Emotional maturity is about knowing the difference and being mindful of it.

We see both here at BPDFamily and some members have trouble distinguishing the two.   So we're trying to differentiate between an emotionally mature, rehabilitating, and healthy reactions - and the dysfunctional and detrimental ones - to help others and possibly even help ourselves.

The question is "When has the anger gone too far and become detrimental? This is the topic of this workshop - what is the difference between healthy anger or unbridled resentment and dysfunctional coping?  "

What are the signs?

 

[Im.okay.now]

First of all ... thanks for posting this ...it really made me think.  

The idea that one partner was healthy (loving and giving) and the other partner was dysfunctional is seriously flawed.

Agree 100% ... if we are all completely honest with ourselves we would see how this is a generally flawed misconception.

Lets face it, the hallmark of a BPD relationship is emotional immaturity by both partners.

However, an emotionally mature and grounded person does not get into such relationships and even if they accidentally fell into one, they would get out, reassess their decision process and values, make changes, and move on - not recycle back time and time again

I agree with this in principle however not so much in "all" cases. It might be a matter of semantics ? not sure but i would tend to agree more with this above statement if we also talked about what i would label as "situational emotional unhealthiness" and not just strictly emotional immaturity. From having read many posts and heard the stories of many posters it seems to me that there is a high number of people that get involved and enter relationships with BPD partners soon after divorcing/separating from long-time marriages and or breakups from longtime committed relationships. When they are vulnerable ... in a weakened state ... i don't have any data to back this up other than observations made here.

So maybe we are emotionally immature at that moment or in that current situation ?

Anyhow ... my situation followed the normal grieving pattern. I hung onto my anger which helped me stay away and disconnected just long enough to finally let go and move on with my life.

This is a great subject for discussion.

ION

[seeking balance]

good topic Skip

2 short/simple things on the subject that I was told:
Anger is really masked hurt - once you let the hurt out, the anger will subside.
Resentment is equal to me taking poison and expecting you to die - not really helpful.

Anger is a healthy and necessary STAGE - but not a good place to live.  Anger will cause us to act in a way that usually protects us for the short term.  Get to the root and we get to the hurt.

[Weird Fishes]

I am the queen of resentment.

The weird thing is, I feel like the anger stage was healthy when/as I process my feelings toward my mother and grandmother.  It came, I experienced it, and now I don't have it as much, I feel much more in control in our relationship, and positive about things going forward.

But toward my abusive uncle and my bf's ex, I am full of resentment, as well as toward my first relationship. 

And I realize as I write this, maybe it has to do with control.  I've taken action about my mother and grandmother and family situation, and that makes me feel safe.  But I have nothing to do with uncle, or bf's ex, who are much more...outwardly destructive, and it drives me nuts that I can't do anything about it.  Maybe resentment and rumination is my obsessive and anxious brain's way of trying to make me feel in control? 

Heck, dude from my first relationship is no longer with us, and I STILL sit around going coulda woulda shoulda.

This is probs all codependency stuff that I've been over a thousand times and forgotten...

[peaceplease]

At BPDFamily.com, the staff has had the opportunity to watch 1,000s of members process the failure of a BPD relationship and clearly, those that exhibit the most vitriol and resentment are the last to heal - if they heal at all.  Lets face it, the hallmark of a BPD relationship is emotional immaturity by both partners.  The idea that one partner was healthy (loving and giving) and the other partner was dysfunctional is seriously flawed.  BPD is a real mental illness and a person with this disorder will have a history of failed relationships.   However, an emotionally mature and grounded person does not get into such relationships and even if they accidentally fell into one, they would reassess their decision process and values, make changes - not get caught up in extended makeup/breakup cycles and come back time and time again.

When we are caught up in the resentment, it obscures both our vision and motivation to identify and resolve the issues that plagued us in the relationship... such as relationship skill (e.g., selecting emotionally impared partners, confusing sex with love, etc.) or even things like our own issues (e.g., co-dependency, narcissistic, schizoid or other traits) or immature

This is so true!  I chose my NPD/BPD ex husband.  I was emotionally immature.  I would say that I was developmentally delayed in emotional maturity.  I sure had my issues.  I learned why I made such foolish choices through therapy.  

I had two children to my exhusband.  My dd, 28, shows signs of seven traits of BPD.  My ds, 30, shows several traits of NPD.  

I can recall when I first left my ex.  My mother was great at telling people how it was his fault.  And, how he was abusive.  And, I accepted my role as the victim.  Then as the years have gone by - I can say, "What was I thinking?"  I reached a point where I could not stand to be around my ex for five minutes.  And, it wasn't him that changed.  He was like that all along.  I just didn't see it.  I really made some poor choices as a young adult.  I had very low self esteem.  But, I found a man who wanted ME.  No matter what, he loved ME.  So, I can handle all the abuse because he was sorry, and he LOVED me.  I had some BPD traits myself.  The big epiphany came out in therapy, that I was the adult child of an alcoholic.  But, I think the bigger thing was that my father never once told me that he loved me. He died when I was only 17.  I felt apathetic about his death.  And, then I felt guilt for feeling that way about his death.  How could I not grieve my own father?  

My father just came from a family that was not affectionate.  They were very cool and distant. Many years after his death, I forgave him.  I could understand that he loved me.  However, I found ways that he really did love me.

I agree that people in a relationship with BPD have their own issues.  Just a few years ago, I would not have agreed with that.  In fact, I can recall being furious that my dd told me that her T told her that we were all nuts in my family.  How dare he say that?  It was just my dd!  Actually, I finally saw that he was right.  We were all nuts.  My dh, me, all of us.  Through therapy and the right therapist I was willing to look at myself.  And, admit, I have my issues, I must find out what they are.  

I used to blame my ex for the way my children turned out.  He never bothered with them much and was not a good father.  However, my kids were born with a predisposition.  I chose this man as a young adult. And, I made so many mistakes in raising my children.  My ubpdd was a very needy child.  And, I let our lives revolve around her.   I accept my responsibility, too.  It was not all my ex's fault.  

[Kate4queen]

Having only recently put all the pieces together and finally been forced to open my eyes and start to create safe boundaries for myself and the other members of my family, yes, I'm angry. I'm angry with myself for not seeing what was going on, for enabling this person to dictate my family life, I'm angry for my other children and I'm angry because I almost lost my husband over this because he figured this out a few years ago and I didn't want to hear him.
But I've also been here before. When my son was diagnosed as having cerebral palsy I had to go through all the stages of grief to find acceptance of who he was and love the person he was, rather than the diagnosis. So, seeing as this is the same kid, it feels to me like it will be the same process. Eventually, I'll work my way to acceptance. But the anger has its place to galvanize me into making decisions and standing my ground. The secret is not to let it spill out onto my son.

[Awakecj]

"So, is this helping us or hurting us?  Does this sound more like healthy anger or unbridled resentment and dysfunctional coping?  How do we know when has the anger gone so far as to become detrimental to our healing?"

In the first phase of my leaving my SO with BPD, I had to hang onto the anger so I could move away from the relationship that was basically killing me. Denial played a big role in justifying my husband's behaviors throughout our marriage and the anger sort of jolted me out of that place so I could see reality. In that case, it served me well. I chose to hang onto the anger because when I didn't, all the hurtful feelings snowballed and became overwhelming. When this happened I would feel so much the victim and honestly cried and experienced deep-deep sorrow for days upon days. Those days have been (and sometimes continue to be) the most painful days of my life.

It hasn't been easy staying in anger because the pain and hurt was so strong it overrode the anger. I actually had to force myself into anger because at the time, I felt it helped me. When I could get to the anger, I felt relief! Oh yeah, I'm here again and I can stop crying and hurting for awhile so this is progress! I have a friend who is a healer and she suggested I should begin to focus on letting go of the anger and re-start my life in a new direction. Although I knew I must do that sometime, I was appalled at the suggestion then because anger had served me well in letting go of the denial and breaking away from the unhealthy relationship with my husband. I wasn't ready.

Since finding this website, I actually have started to feel a slight shift in my thinking and reactions. One of the ambassadors mentioned it would be helpful to read and read about BPD and someday, understanding the disorder would click. I have followed her advice and although it is far from clicking, I am starting to feel SOME relief from my extreme emotions and with that I'm able to slowly start letting go of the anger (my armor). This FEELS like progress to me and I find myself being more mindful with my responses/reactions. Is this emotional maturity I wonder?

So I'm feeling quite wonderful about my ability to be a little more mindful because usually, I'm immediately reactive with my responses. However, just yesterday I shamed myself by EXPLODING angry emotions about my BPD husband onto texts to my kids (adults), brother (traitor), and BPD husband. To date, I have been pretty good about not getting our adult children involved in our "war" but yesterday my husband's smearing campaign against me to my father (who recently had a stroke) put me over the edge with emotions that I had trouble coping with. At first, I felt a little detached when I learned about the call to my dad but the unbridled resentment and anger welled up in me like a tidal wave and the texting began. After the dysfunctional response my way of coping, I felt drained, the regrets set in and I am not proud of myself.

How did this dysfunctional, angry response serve me and our kids, not well I think. I feel ashamed at losing control of my emotions and engaging at all with my husband. I got back into the dysfunctional cycle and took everyone with me. I have given thought to why I did this (outside of being emotionally immature), what purpose did it serve? Did I feel self-righteous, justified because I am the victim, he the perpetrator and everyone should know? Did it feel comfortable and familiar to re-engage? What, why, what?

Ok so I realize for one that I need to continue to take a moment before responding in an angry rage, develop an alternate way of coping when I feel overwhelmed with emotions (perhaps write the text but don't send). I also need to take more responsibility for my role in our dysfunctional relationship because it was not ALL his fault as much as I've proclaimed it to be. My reaction yesterday was proof of my role in the dysfunctional cycle. Even though I think I'm a genuinely kind, loving person, I have engaged in a really unhealthy relationship. I have "said" to others that I contributed but really, did I mean it? How can I REALLY become accountable for my role in this 32 year relationship? I think it starts with letting go of the anger and resentment and I think I'm ready.

Anger has served me well in getting out, now emotional growth needs to occur so I can move on and that, to me, means letting go of the unhealthy anger and resentment. I have felt justified in blaming everything on him because his actions seemed cruel and calculated and mine weren't but at this point, does it matter? I want to continue to learn and accept BPD as an illness because it will only serve me in letting go of the resentment, anger, and pain. I also want to continue to learn and accept who I was, who I am, and acknowledge my role. I am in need of emotional growth so I can have an emotionally healthy life. Because I am co-dependent, it has helped in the past to focus on improving myself for my kids but really, the biggest and most challenging lesson for me is to focus on doing this for MYSELF.

[levi]

 I am also not a angry person but there is so much of angryness in my BPD husband at the moment and it get worse by the day. At this stage we don't even talk anymore. But now I am angry when I think about the 31years of my life he stole from me,  he can never give it back or even make up for it.

[PaGuy]

For me, the anger serves a purpose.  As I have been exploring the emotional incest I went through, I was very angry... and even though my uBPDm wasn't there, I cursed her out.  It was an outlet and an expression of my determination to never let that happen again.  However, I kept going.  I could feel some of the hurt leaving and the emotion changed.  I was then angry from a different place... more of a punitive place than a protective place.  That is when I went too far.

I was discussing an old psychology experiment with a professor (he has many advanced degrees and understands behaviors unlike anyone else I have met) and the experiment was about monkeys.  The monkeys would be exposed to negative circumstances.  In one set, the monkeys could do something to stop the circumstances and in the other set the monkeys couldn't.  The monkeys that could do something about the behaviors became angry and acted whereas the monkeys that couldn't do anything didn't get angry.

The point I took from that conversation is that anger is good if it drives us to stop a bad action.  I draw the line when the anger moves from fueling protective actions to a fueling vindictive/punishing actions.

[Awakecj]

"According to Mark Siche (author of Healing from Family Rifts), resentment happens when:
We feel what people did to us that was unnecessarily mean, hurtful, and disrespectful or humiliating
What people in our lives did not do for us mean, hurtful, and disrespectful or humiliating"

I'm revisiting this discussion because I have fallen back into feeling resentful towards my H. I guess the emotional stages ebb and flow but the holidays sure brought out resentment for me. This was the first non-couple Christmas for me and HWBPD. We set up a schedule so we wouldn't both be at our adult kids at the same time and the schedule worked out but last night I felt such anger towards my H that we had to coordinate this. I focused on how horrible he was and the unnecessarily mean, hurtful and disrespectful things he did during our marriage.

I don't like being in this place of resentment as it kind of debilitates me. I'm going to work on changing my thinking by focusing on the healing workshops on this website. I need to get out of resentment and back into self healing because it feels better.

[myboneshurt]

After going through the Family Connections program, I realized that anger is always the secondary emotion.  The analogy was if you kid was out at 3AM with your car, and you were worried sick about her, the primary emotion is fear.  When she walks in the door, you yell "Where have you been!", and that response, anger, is the secondary emotion.

6 months ago, I found out that my exBPD had done something devastating to me.  She posed on Twitter as a porn star, got one as a roommate to take over the lease (which ended in shambles in 3 days), and worst of all, friended a girl I had briefly dated for a month that had gotten into porn after me.  It hurt me to the core.  After struggling with my own destructive hypersexuality, to see the pwBPD publish pornographic images of herself sickened me.  I responded with anger.  And after not being able to cope with this event, the anger persisted and became an effective coping tactic. 

But the primary emotion was hurt.  She dumped me on Christmas Eve for another man she met a week ago.  She spent Christmas with the new guy and posted pictures to lash out.  She's once again engaged in similar, overtly pornographic behavior with a new set of friends that she has found online.  After the breakup, I am no longer angry.  But the pain is there.

The biggest problem is, as a man, it seems as if expressing anger is a far more acceptable emotion than expressing vulnerability.  I struggle with that a lot - so people think I'm constantly angry.  But the reality is that the superficial emotion is masking the true feelings of pain.

[snowwhite]

I am sorry, but I have to disagree with some of what has been posted. I entered my marriage to my uBPDh as a young naive person. He did not have a history of abusive behavior to other wives. I was the first of several. When I found out about his dishonest and abusive behavior and he refused to change, I filed for divorce. What I became angry about and stayed angry about is how he continued to tell lies about me to people we both knew - people we went to school with, worked with, attended church with. This continued for over 20 years. I am sure it would still be happening if he had not died. To say that an emotionally healthy person would leave and move on is to assume that the abuse ends. It does not even if you live thousands of miles from the pwBPD and never see them again. I once went six months without a phone just so he could not contact me. As soon as I put in a new line, he called. I can only think he must have been trying the whole six months. Decades later, DECADES, he was still trying to contact me. When I told him to stop, he did something unspeakable to hurt his then wife and children because he needed to act out the rejection from me. Of course, anger has to end, but I cannot imagine it ending while the damage was continuing. Perhaps I should have had him jailed for harassement. I do not know, but I resent someone trying to tell me this was my problem. It was not.