SELF-AWARE: When is good sex a bad thing?

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Us: When is good sex a bad thing?

Some members who are exiting a BPD relationship, or have been thrown from it, seem to really struggle with the loss the sex life.  Some members have reported that sexual relationship played a significant role in their decision to recycle back into a broken and clearly bad relationship.  Some members have reported that the loss of the sexual relationship is the most significant lose they felt when the relationship was over or during a breakup period.

In this workshop we want to explore:

How do we know when the sex has become "blinding" to us in the relationship?

How do we know when the sex has become a way to cope?
 
What are sign that my sexual drives are unhealthy or hurting me?

Is it my partner? Me? Both of us?

Why are we the last to see it in ourselves?

How do we change / break the cycle?


Love begets sex... but sex does not beget love.

Sometimes we get it backwards.  Robert Weiss LCSW from the Sexual Recovery Institute in Los Angles says that sexuality can be exploited or evolve into destructive patterns of addiction and compulsion.  Unlike the healthy person seeking partnership and sex as a complement to their life, someone with a exploitative sexual habits searches for something outside of themselves (a person, relationship or experience) which will provide them with the emotional and life stability that they themselves lack.  They use romantic/sexual experiences in an attempt to "fix" themselves and feel emotionally stable.

According to Weiss, when love/sexuality is used as a way to cope, rather than a way to grow and share, partner choice becomes skewed – poor choices are made.  Compatibility becomes based on "whether or not you will leave me", "how intense our sex life is" or "how I can hook you into staying", rather than on whether you might truly become a peer, friend and companion.

These relationships are characterized over time by unhealthy dependency, unhealthy boundaries, guilt and abuse. Convinced of their lack of worth and not feeling truly lovable, some people  will use seduction, control, guilt and manipulation to attract and hold onto romantic partners.

Weiss points out that not everyone who engages in sexual exploitation is has a long term problem, many people may have their judgment skewed by a difficult person or situation from time to time in their lives.

[muddychicken]

How do we know when the sex has become "blinding" to us in the relationship?

It became transactional. We had it only when I initiated it and when I was in her good graces. It was like a narcotic in the beginning. I'm talking almost daily and 2-3 times. Then when I couldn't keep up the pace, she got mad telling me I didn;t love her, wasn't attracted to her. Then unfortunately for me, initiating sex was the only was that I could tell that she wasn't internally raging.

How do we know when the sex has become a way to cope?

I felt that it would simply make the issues go away, great sex clouds emotions...skews perceptions, maybe it puts her anger/rage at bay by her seeing that I did care about her, was attracted to her. It became the only coping skill I had left that made me think all was good in the marriage even though I had an internal feeling after we got married that something was seriously off.

What are sign that my sexual drives are unhealthy or hurting me?

When that becomes the goal for the day. Gotta have sex with her. Then at some point accused me of treating her like a whore. That killed my sex drive because I had no clue as to how I was treating her like a whore for something that was a mutual thing to do. Then I backed off in a major way and we only did it maybe 3-4x a month. That also affected any possibility of hugging/kissing her, complimenting her etc.

Is it my partner? Me? Both of us?

I can't speak for my ex but as previously stated she has accused me of treating her like a whore more than once. Also when we were done, she would go to the bathroom and clean up and say "gross" not every time but frequently, that made me feel dirty. Was it me? I had some short term relationships where the sex progressed after 3-4 dates whereas with my ex it was the first date and we did it 5x. I thought that this is what it was supposed to be like. When it was evident that I was leaving her, she initiated it almost daily for about a month, it made me sick to my stomach. That's another story but talk about feeling dirty.I have an addictive personality but fortunately, I have no vices. But for me it was simply that, my brain was looking for the emotional validation that I didn't get from my parents and my brain told me that the sex I was getting was what I had been looking for all this time...I know otherwise now.

Why are we the last to see it in ourselves?

Funny, I am a CPS investigator and I have seen this issue in a countless number of cases and I could hear myself saying "this is so familiar to me, what you're saying." It took me seeing her therapist to put a label on what was going on. She didn't say BDP, but told me that she was verbally and emotilnally abusing me. That lead to Internet searches and I started to see what was going on in my life...and the FOG cleared and the Roller Coaster ride started to come to an end. It was familiar to me, I was repeating my childhood relationship with my momster through my exwife.

How do we change / break the cycle?

Got a good T and I researched the warning signs to toxic relationships and NO FEAR. Bring on the RAGE, I can take it, it's too easy to disarm after I learned the skills in dealing with it. . I started seeing cracks in my last dating relationship that lasted 10 months as she couldn't hold up the false front any longer. SHe felt familiar too. How do I break the cycle? Stop looking for that exciting HIGH and see that feeling grounded and not depending on my partner to feel good about mself or my happiness makes for a healthy relationship.

[larissap]

Common Traits of Sex Addicts

Sex Addicts have eerily similar personality traits and childhood experiences that leave no doubt that the two are correlated. Almost every woman I have talked with describes conversations and behaviors that sound as if she were talking about my husband, rather than hers. Here are a few of the most common personality traits of Sex Addicts.

Emotionally immature
Lack empathy
Engage in compulsive lying
Lead double lives
Lack coping skills
Unable to form intimate bonds
Use sex to medicate their emotional pain
Feel overwhelming shame and guilt
Lack trust
Socially isolated
Lack self esteem
Engage in ‘Black and White’ thinking
Live in denial
Feel out of control
Harbor anger

http://marriedtoasexaddict.com/addiction/

[InEarPeace]

You will find most (if not all) of those traits in any addict, regardless of the type of addiction.

I'm an addict (in recovery for over 5 years now) and I can see I have had all of those traits at one point or another (although I wouldn't have admitted it at the time).  Many of those traits you list I believe are reasons why I ended up with my exBPDw.  I couldn't see the dysfunctional relationship for what is was since I didn't have the concept of a good relationship.

Trying to simply define an addiction is tough, but for what it came down to for me was this. It is using a substance/act/person in an unhealthy way so that the addict can cope with life and their emotions.  For me it was basically how I could live with myself.

Did my exBPDw use sex to cope? Yes. Did she also use food to cope? Yes.  Did she use excessive sleep to cope? Yes. Did she play the victim to elicit compliments to cope? Yes. Did she paint others black to redirect attention from herself to cope? Yes. (I could go on with many other destructive behaviors she used as well)

I wouldn't necessarily consider my exBPDw an addict in any of these areas (although she would say that she was a food addict that she overcame) but rather she did whatever she had to to cope with life.  Almost like that she wasn't necessarily addicted to one thing in particular but whatever was handy at the time to use.

There is definitely a correlation between a PD and addictions.  In fact, recently the American Society of Addiction Medicine redefined an addiction as a "chronic neurological disorder".

[tcevans78]

My therapist told me that there is a 'love' chemical in the brain for a woman that is released after she has sex with the same man 5 times.  That studies have shown 5 times to be the thing to trigger feelings of love.  So, women should therefore be careful having sex just for fun with the wrong man.  

If it's true, according to another workshop I was on, that most bpd's partners are not capable of emotional intimacy (if I run across it I'll link to it here) and that physical intimacy becomes a replacement for the real deal - then of course we grieve losing the sex.  For us it is the only way we know to connect with others.  So it makes sense we place such a high value on it.  

[Realization]

How do we know when the sex has become "blinding" to us in the relationship?

In my case, sex became the main 'focus point' in our 20-year marriage...was never enough for him, not good enough for him, etc., etc.

How do we know when the sex has become a way to cope?

I realized it was his way to cope because when the marriage started heading for trouble, it was his way to fix everything.
 
What are sign that my sexual drives are unhealthy or hurting me?

When my feelings were being ignored or, better yet, when he told me that my feelings were wrong and sex would 'fix it'...and that always led to the 'not good enough', etc.

Is it my partner? Me? Both of us?

In my case, it was both of us...I was co-d in trying to save the marriage and believed him that the intimacy of sex would bring us back together 

Why are we the last to see it in ourselves?

I know that I didn't WANT to see it, if I did see his unhealthy 'drive' then that would've ended the marriage sooner.  I was grasping at straws trying to save a 20-year marriage.

How do we change / break the cycle?

We had a great marriage therapist whom I continued seeing as my own T when the marriage dissolved.

[bpdspell]

How do we know when the sex has become "blinding" to us in the relationship?
When sex is the only thing that gives you an inkling hope that things will get better.

How do we know when the sex has become a way to cope?
When sex becomes the only tool you have to get close to the person that's hurting you. It's the ultimate distraction from the games, the push pull, the loneliness I felt, the pain of narcissistic abuse. Sex with the ex was like being on dope but when the high ended I felt even worse and had to face an even harsher reality.
 
What are sign that my sexual drives are unhealthy or hurting me?
When you feel empty, used and resentful after sex. When you realize you are making love to an empty person who cannot feed your soul or spirit in any mutually reciprocal way. This is emotional painful.

Is it my partner? Me? Both of us?
It was the both of us. My ex used sex to control me and I used sex as a bandaid for all of the irreversible damaged he caused. I wanted sex to help me forget about his betrayals, infidelities, ambient abuse,& triangulations. I even used sex as power tool believing that he'd treat me better if I gave him what he wanted in bed.

Why are we the last to see it in ourselves?
Because we are in powerful denial and will use sex as that string in the ball of yarn until the ball is gone. For me sex was power and was the only trump card I had with my ex. I had stopped giving him material things but I never stopped giving him sex. It was the only thing that I believed I had that would keep him close to me. But the closeness was false. Sex does not equate love but sex was my drug addiction to my ex.

How do we change/break the cycle?
All of the abuse simply became intolerable and bedroom antics could no longer distract me from the pain I was so desperately trying to avoid. The so called "amazing sex" we had never stopped him from being bossy, bullying, selfish, entitled & narcissistic. I had to accept that although I loved him that my ex was not a nice person; he has a rotten character and was willing to do anything to win. I broke my addiction by "starving myself" out as you would say. I went through withdrawals and everything but giving him that space helped me to accept the good and bad of who he truly was.

[HardTruth]

I think the chemical in the brain that's released during sex and contributes to feelings of love and bonding that tcevans78 is talking about is oxytocin.  Here's a wiki link - it's really interesting!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin

I can't remember whether it was here or somewhere else that I read that something like 5x more oxytocin is released in women's versus men's brains during sex. 

[johnnyorganic]

How do we know when the sex has become "blinding" to us in the relationship?

The sex at the beginning was incredible. Despite all the crazy behaviors, the raging, the blaming, the neediness, and my being terrified about her, I still went back. I knew the relationship itself was terrible. She yelled and screamed at me for everything. I wanted out. I was out mentally and physically but I kept going back for the sex. I would fantasize about her all the time (I still do). I remember when the sex stopped being that great I thought to myself: The sex isn't that great...   why am I still here? What am I doing with this person?

How do we know when the sex has become a way to cope?
 
Sex was a place where I felt I was getting something out of the relationship. It was my reason for staying. When we had great sex, I could justify to myself why I was there. It made me feel connected to her and it was really fun.

What are sign that my sexual drives are unhealthy or hurting me?


I continue to fantasize about her. All the time. When I miss her, I fantasize about her. It is my way of keeping her around. But that person I am keeping around was abusive. She raged at me for almost anything and everything. She was manipulative. There were guilt trips all the time and strange distorted thinking. Gaslighting. The usual. I had even started another relationship with someone that I really and truly cared for. A person who I thought I could spend my life with. A person who was kind and caring and compassionate. And I still went back for the sex. And I got heaps and heaps of abuse. It almost destroyed my life. Literally.

Is it my partner? Me? Both of us?
Both. My ex would use sex as a mechanism of control. She obviously wouldn't see it that way. But why would I expect her to. I remember towards the end of the relationship, we were having a bad day and out of the blue she tells me that she would sleep with another woman in front of me if I wanted. Totally out of the blue. And my thoughts were: "That's weird...   we just had a terrible day together and this is what you are offering up? That's just weird."
On my end, I was addicted to it. No question about it. Even after we broke up, it still hooked me in. It was the reason I stayed for so long during and after the relationship. It is the main reason why I'm on these boards. If the sex hadn't been so amazing, I never, ever would have been involved with this person. Ever.

Why are we the last to see it in ourselves?
I wasn't the last to see it. I was the first to see it. I knew the entire time. I just ignored it. I didn't think it was that dangerous. It was. That is the part that I didn't see. I didn't see how dangerous it was to my self and my own psychological well-being. It kept me in a place with a person who was deeply wounded and abusive.

How do we change / break the cycle?
Good lord. Any suggestions would be incredibly useful. I don't see my ex anymore. I don't talk to her. I don't communicate with her. I still fantasize about her. Almost daily. Sometimes even more. I want her dead in my mind and I know that my doing this is just keeping her alive in my mind and her voice continues to abuse me. Please...   suggestions! This is where I am completely stuck.

[traddad]

Sex was a place where I felt I was getting something out of the relationship. It was my reason for staying. When we had great sex, I could justify to myself why I was there. It made me feel connected to her and it was really fun.

Yes, that's it.  Speaking as someone who generally regards myself as unlucky in love/low self esteem/whatever you want to call it, having gone through years of getting no female attention or sex, being in a relationship with someone who offers up fantasy sex without batting an eyelid is a very powerful thing.

Both. My ex would use sex as a mechanism of control. She obviously wouldn't see it that way. But why would I expect her to. I remember towards the end of the relationship, we were having a bad day and out of the blue she tells me that she would sleep with another woman in front of me if I wanted. Totally out of the blue. And my thoughts were: "That's weird...   we just had a terrible day together and this is what you are offering up? That's just weird."

At the beginning of our relationship, my wife encouraged me to seek out sex with other women, even though that wasn't at all what I wanted - I wanted the 'girlfriend experience' with this one.  Now she's my wife, she often uses sex as a mechanism to smooth over any and all cracks in our relationship. We had a disastrous holiday a couple of years back, caused by some rather bad decisions on my wife's part.  Her response to try and get things back on track was to offer even more 'special' sex than usual to get me back on-side.

On my end, I was addicted to it. No question about it. Even after we broke up, it still hooked me in. It was the reason I stayed for so long during and after the relationship. It is the main reason why I'm on these boards. If the sex hadn't been so amazing, I never, ever would have been involved with this person. Ever.

The sex was certainly the number one reason why I stay with the relationship.  But at the beginning, I thought we had a lot in common too.  But thinking about it now, I wonder how much we really did have in common, and how much was 'mirroring'.  A lot of the things that we seemed to have in common fell by the wayside over the years, to the point where we seem to have little in common at all, now.