I'm in the "good" part of our cycle

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Right now, we're in a good part of our cycle- we usually switch back and forth between 3 weeks to a month of fighting/constant dysregulation and three weeks of easy/happy relationship. I'm trying to just live in the moment and enjoy that things are good, and take the idealization while I can get it, but it's really hard to for to not completely withdraw even though things are good because I know that they're going to get bad again. I feel so torn between avoiding emotional/physical intimacy and just letting myself be happy and enjoy the good time I have left. Sometimes it feels like I can never really be happy in this relationship anymore, even when things are good.

Does anyone else feel like this? How do you handle it?

[ahundredyears]

Right now, we're in a good part of our cycle- we usually switch back and forth between 3 weeks to a month of fighting/constant dysregulation and three weeks of easy/happy relationship. I'm trying to just live in the moment and enjoy that things are good, and take the idealization while I can get it, but it's really hard to for to not completely withdraw even though things are good because I know that they're going to get bad again. I feel so torn between avoiding emotional/physical intimacy and just letting myself be happy and enjoy the good time I have left. Sometimes it feels like I can never really be happy in this relationship anymore, even when things are good.

Does anyone else feel like this? How do you handle it?

[Moonbug]

Hi ahundredyears-

I have felt this as well, and have begun looking at the reasons behind why we have our periods of stability. They seem to be centered more on my stability, than on his. Which is really an odd kind of conundrum, but there is that aspect to it. It seems the less I ask of him, the less I demand of him, the less of a role I need of him as a partner, well- the better we get along. Does this make sense? Which leads me to wonder...well then, why am I even here? Because if the good times are only good if I'm not 'demanding' anything, it's not a very equal partnership (not that being in a relationship with a pwBPD ever is), but this is very unequal. Kinda disheartening.

I hear where you are coming from. I don't quite know myself how to manage it, other than to work on a healthy level of detachment for now. It's allowed me to stay in the relationship without withdrawing completely or being emotionally unhealthy with him. It's still a process and I'm still learning.

Have you found any pattern in your relationship to what helps the good times be good?

Moonbug

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GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for analyzing and making the decision to either continue working on your relationship or to leave it. If you have already please advance to "L3 Leaving" or the "L4 Staying" board. All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[alwayslearning]

oh yes, for sure!..makes me sick. When things are good it doesn't feel like they will ever be bad again..but they are. Then when things are bad, I considered staying gone. They have a way though that truly amazes me...a way of easing themselves right back in.

[LOCO]

I so agree.  I told my BPDSO that he had to see someone for help or I was gone.  He has been acting like nothing is wrong with him.  He MADE MY COFFEE.  HE NEVER DOES THAT.  HE also come in there and helped me take the chicken off the bone for Gumbo.  He never does that, he doesn't even know how to cook.  He hasn't seen any one for help either.  I have to go back to the dr this week and let him check my bp because when I went last week it was 173/98.  Dr. wanted to know if I had quit taking my high bp med's because it was so high.  I told him what was going on and he said that he didn't have any med's for that.  I asked him was he sure. I said I just need something that makes me a zombie and he then told me that a person should not have to take med's to be married.  So needless to say, BPDSO isn't doing any thing and I have plans for my son to come and help me get packed and move in two weeks.  Hopeful BPDSO will show his true colors again and it wont make it so hard to leave. 

[Cameron]

Intermitent reinforcement.

The tool of slave making.

This is part of the symbiosis of BPD and object.

I hated and loved this at the same time. It kept me addicted.

[an0ught]

Right now, we're in a good part of our cycle- we usually switch back and forth between 3 weeks to a month of fighting/constant dysregulation and three weeks of easy/happy relationship. I'm trying to just live in the moment and enjoy that things are good, and take the idealization while I can get it, but it's really hard to for to not completely withdraw even though things are good because I know that they're going to get bad again. I feel so torn between avoiding emotional/physical intimacy and just letting myself be happy and enjoy the good time I have left. Sometimes it feels like I can never really be happy in this relationship anymore, even when things are good.

Does anyone else feel like this? How do you handle it?

So now you are idolized. Good for you but no reason to take a break from working on implementing boundaries and working hard on validation.

Boundaries: Keep time for yourself. Insist on acting as an independent person. Leave him alone for some time.

Validation: Try to validate the over the top emotions. Get a feel how validation works, observe that validating good stuff by expressing that it is "really, really good" helps to calm down and get back to the middle of the road while expressing something invalidating like "well, you know there are drawbacks too, lets look at the middle of the road" results in more extreme positives. Build up your shared emotional vocabulary.

SET - use SET to express some less convenient truths.

Keeping your individual life, keeping up boundaries and trying to stay in Kansas for most of the time should be a goal whether in the sun or in the rain.

[Matyr]

Been there...felt that
When I started noticing that my appreciation of the good times was always tainted by the knowledge that they would not last, that's when I really started questioning if I wished to maintain the relationship. Lose-lose situations like this suck the life right out of you, & it's just part of the "roller coaster" you ride when you choose to share your life with a dBPD.
Aaaarrrgh !

[LOCO]

You know, with me, I think my BPDH's mother has somekind of mental problem.  She lives behind me, and usually I see her ALL THE TIME.  Since I have made it known to my sister-in-law, my mother-in-law hasn't been around.  She has asked BPDH'S daughter (that lives with us) if I am still leaving.  This same woman, ran over the bumpy things on the side of the road and called her son and told him that she had a flat.  He drove all the way to where she was (sitting on the side of the road) and advised her that she didn't have a flat.  She also went to church on time with a flat heel shoe on and a high heel on and didn't know what was wrong with her shoes.  Her daughter said mamma, why do you have two different shoes on, and she replied, OH SO THAT'S WHAT THE PROBLEM IS.  OMG. 

[MoonWolf]

I can't predict cycles anymore, it's just frustrating. It's like today everything was fine and the BAM out of the blue rage from hell.

[Matyr]

My dBPD is Bi Polar as well, so I'm trying to figure out what effect that has on her "cycles". I'm only now starting to document her moods so I can look back & see if there is some kind of pattern or regularity to her mood swings & outbursts...But then, as Moonwolf just stated, things can appear to be going fine then BAM

[an0ught]

My dBPD is Bi Polar as well, so I'm trying to figure out what effect that has on her "cycles". I'm only now starting to document her moods so I can look back & see if there is some kind of pattern or regularity to her mood swings & outbursts...But then, as Moonwolf just stated, things can appear to be going fine then BAM

Understanding invalidation can make a big difference in knowing what triggers BAM. Also those triggers (i.e. not all triggers - that would be walking on egg-shells) should be avoided as they often can be avoided and also make matters worse in the long run.

http://BPDfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=81442.0

[takingcharge]

To: A hundred years.

We are in the good part of our cycle right now too, and I know EXACTLY what you are saying!  I use to be so happy when things were going well with him, and just enjoy being with him.

Now, I cautiously wait for it to blow.  Lately, he has been going through all of my ways of communicating ( email, texts, facebook) checking for any communication he can blow up over.  I am always scared that if I talk to a friend or a family member, they might say something that offends him, so I have been avaiding contact with my family


I keep telling myself I cant live this way and I just need to leave, but I dont know what I would do. 

[LOCO]

I'm just waiting on my BPDH to find this site and see all I have posted about him . Talk about a blow. He doesn't want any body to know he is the way he is.  He just keeps that private, for me and he daughter (from a previous marriage, that lives with us.) She said he did her mother the SAME way, hollering and screaming at her.

[takingcharge]

I'm just waiting on my BPDH to find this site and see all I have posted about him . Talk about a blow. He doesn't want any body to know he is the way he is.  He just keeps that private, for me and he daughter (from a previous marriage, that lives with us.) She said he did her mother the SAME way, hollering and screaming at her.

Oh yes...I agree with that-No one should know about our problems-except us.  I have been covering for him too long.  My mother said something to me the other day...she said"  Do you remember that time you went a little crazy, thinking that (BPDH) cheated on you?" I just stared at her.
He did cheat on me! By his request,  I covered it up for him, told everyone that I was mistaken, so he could look people in the eye.  Now, Im seen as the one thats crazy, and for crying out loud, I am!  Who does this sht?

[Matyr]

"should be avoided as they often can be avoided and also make matters worse in the long run."

That's a hard one. I understand that the BPD's emotions are very real to them, & try my best not to invalidate them as you say. The problem I have with this though, is that most often the emotion is a "knee jerk" reaction, recycled from past events/trauma, which in turn creates the dysfunctional behaviour. If BPD's are unable to catch themselves between the "thought" & the "emotion" by either using CBT/DBT or mindfulness, or the people who deal with the fallout from these emotions can't point out that the BPD's perception is incorrect & has no basis in reality...how do they progress ?

[MoonWolf]

I'm just waiting on my BPDH to find this site and see all I have posted about him . Talk about a blow. He doesn't want any body to know he is the way he is.  He just keeps that private, for me and he daughter (from a previous marriage, that lives with us.) She said he did her mother the SAME way, hollering and screaming at her.

Me too -- He says he is private, but it's so he can control the situation, to his liking. He likes to isolate because that means that I won't be able to talk to others, therefore having anyone agree that his actions are not normal.

[an0ught]

That's a hard one. I understand that the BPD's emotions are very real to them, & try my best not to invalidate them as you say. The problem I have with this though, is that most often the emotion is a "knee jerk" reaction, recycled from past events/trauma, which in turn creates the dysfunctional behaviour. If BPD's are unable to catch themselves between the "thought" & the "emotion" by either using CBT/DBT or mindfulness, or the people who deal with the fallout from these emotions can't point out that the BPD's perception is incorrect & has no basis in reality...how do they progress ?

The problem is not a confused belief system. When calm a pwBPD can think clearly. A lot of dysregulation can of course change reality a bit and also the perception of reality. The pwBPD needs not to learn a different reality. The pwBPD needs to learn emotional regulation. Then dealing with the reality can be done in the same way as it is done by any other person. Reality has its own way of being persuasive. While still in Oz it can be useful to drip feed reality via S.E.T.. That way it gets through without invalidation and triggering.

To understand what is going on one need to look at BPD as an emotional regulation problem. To look at the person with BPD and the environment as system with various feedback loops.

Situation: Person is exposed to a surprise. Actually a nice surprise e.g. birthday. But it happens suddenly and with a bang.

Let us look first at a person with a working emotional regulation.

bang-->surprise-->heart racing, fear kicking in shortly-->situation assessed-->not threatening (but fear switched on)+-->nice surprise-->laughter
                 !<------------------------------------ !<--------------switch off----------------------------------------------------!

Now let us look how it can look without a working emotional regulation system:

bang-->surprise-->heart racing, fear kicking b&w -->situational assessment colored --> not really threatening (but unaware that fear is switched on) --> fear influencing behavior --> defensive behavior towards the person who surprised --(X)--> other person gets upset and agitated --> conflict --> fighting mode --> other person really gets upset and starts making excuses --(Y)--> realization of fear on the other side by pwBPD --> recognition of emotion and regulating fear down---> gets calm again (while other person is fuming over spoiled birthday surprise).

As indicated above the emotional feedback loop is internal to a healthy person (ability to self validate) but runs straight through the environment (here another person) in case of the person with BPD. Which is the reason we are on a roller-coaster.

If  at the point (X) the other person would say: "You are a bit pale. This was loud and you look surprised." the pwBPD would have a chance to regulate emotions down.

If at the point (Y) the other person would say: "This was not so bad and only a harmless surprise." then the pwBPD would likely be triggered by the "harmless" as it goes against the internal state of "yellow alert". As a result the internal state would go to "red alert" and the situation will move beyond what can be recovered.


There is a lot of thinking about thoughts and emotions on this board. The relationship between the two are confused in a pwBPD. And this is where we nons get confused.

• We nons live in a world of thoughts (at least we believe that). Thoughts are connected and form whole systems which then drive the world and some emotions.
• A pwBPD is more driven by emotions. Thoughts are a tool to express emotions. Past injuries are not as much a cause as a anecdote they pull out to express their pain. Dealing with past pain is not going to solve anything. One injury cured only means another one need to be found (or created) in order to express the pain. Past injury is often only a rationalization of the intense pain. Not the cause. So working on that is trying to fill a bottomless hole.

The problem is too much emotions->reduced thinking. The cause is lack of emotional regulation ability on various levels (above just one of them) for a whole range of reasons.

• Validation is pointing the emotional confused and blind into a safe direction. Also decreases confusion in the future.
• Invalidation is pointing the emotional confused and blind into the direction of the staircase. Increases confusion.

Boundaries also help regulation as
bang-->surprise-->heart racing, fear kicking b&w -->situational assessment colored --> not really threatening (but unaware that fear is switched on) --> fear influencing behavior --> defensive behavior towards the person who surprised --(X)--> other person gets upset and agitated --> conflict --> fighting mode -->other person leaves-->pwBPD has to deal with being in fighting mode without enemy-->eventually sees the light.

Whenever sensible regulation happens the pwBPD learns a little. It is emotional kindergarten.

Validation is important for us as well. When we tell the person (X) that they are pale and surprised we self validate our situation that we are dealing with a distressed person and move mentally away from the "I have here a nice birthday surprise" feeling. Which ensures that whatever reaction we get from the other side then will be a lot less surprising to us. Reducing our own distress and decoupling us emotionally from the other person.

It is a useful exercise to discard all thoughts and ideas coming from a pwBPD and only watch expressed emotions behind the words, ideas and behavior. Validation is all about accurate observation of emotions and expressing them truthfully. That way we lift them from the emotional level to our cognitive level where they can be better managed.

[Matyr]

AnOught.
I found your post both informative & thought provoking, & as such, I have a question...
Buddhist philosophy teaches us that the chain of events is as follows ~
Event-Emotion-Thought-Action
The rationale is that emotions come from the "primitive" part of the brain, & hence pop up first (you feel before you think). These emotions are often tainted by past experiences (particularly in the BP). By using mindfulness, Buddhist practitioners train themselves to "catch & analyse" the emotion, prior to formulating a thought, which obviously can assist in generating a suitable thought on which to act on.
Could it be possible that BP's thought processes are such that the thought creates the emotion ?.
I also found your comment regarding not focusing on past trauma, & using CBT/DBT skills in order to focus on the inappropriate emotion/thought, in order to assist the BP to formulate an appropriate response very interesting. I'm definitely working on this, but in my r/s this is difficult. In my situation, validation kind of works like this ~
Me
I understand that your thoughts/feelings are very real to you, but they have no basis in reality...try looking at it this way...
BP
Nobody understands me/you don't know what I've been through/you don't care/f**k off..your the crazy one
Also, by remaining calm in any given situation, the situation invariably gets worse due to the fact that she see's my unwillingness to engage in hostility as a lack of caring. In these situations, I've found leaving temporarily offers her a chance to "cool off", & most times she apologizes on my return.
She is on Sertraline, & although this seems to take the edge off, it does not prevent the hostility & verbal abuse. I'm also going to suggest she returns to DBT (which I will attend with her).
I apologize if I have "highjacked" this thread, but I feel anOught has some very pertinent & helpful advice on this topic that we can all benefit from.    

[LW1968]

I understand that your thoughts/feelings are very real to you, but they have no basis in reality...try looking at it this way...

Oops----that's not validation; it's the opposite.  Saying that her feelings have no basis in reality & then trying to correct how she feels is part of the problem.

Don't correct, just acknowledge.  You don't have to say that she's right, and you certainly shouldn't say that she's wrong...just acknowledge that she has that feeling at that particular moment.

[Matyr]

I don't know,
"Validating" to me just seems like giving approval to their dysfunction & enabling it. How can there be any real communication if the "non" is unable to object to being mistreated, & explain their own thoughts & feelings.
Still confused  ?

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