2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel

[Think About It...]

Great post broken, beat annd scarred...that hit home!

[timebomb]

Great post broken, beat annd scarred...that hit home!

[C12P21]

I think our egos took the brunt of the impact. Our sense of self-worth was bolstered up by them. Then at the end, it was nearly destroyed. Having your self-confidence shattered into tiny pieces is a life changing thing. We shy away from social engagements, we recede into the background like a shadow. The feeling of self-worth is probably the most damaging thing that anyone can lose. A feeling of self-worth gives us confidence to get out and interact with others, and simply enjoy life. It's no wonder we're afraid of new experiences, new relationships.

It takes a long time to realize what's really happened here and why. It's only when we do that we can begin to regain some confidence and open up to what's out there in the world.

Very true, it has taken me almost eighteen months and lots of soul searching to get out there again and feel centered and whole.

[Nutts45]

Mind you it is not a request to talk about the r/s... Her request comes with a condition. We have to make small talk and pretend nothing bad ever happened between us. Then we can talk... Until she feels like raging at me... Than I have to except her not talking to me for a few days  until she feels like engaging again with no mention of what just happened.

I never could put what has been going on..but this summed it up.

Understand that you have become the trigger for his bad feelings and bad behavior.

The irony...their actions inflict pain within us, and their bad feelings create bad behavior, which cycles around until...

[sea5045]

Mind you it is not a request to talk about the r/s... Her request comes with a condition. We have to make small talk and pretend nothing bad ever happened between us. Then we can talk... Until she feels like raging at me... Than I have to except her not talking to me for a few days  until she feels like engaging again with no mention of what just happened.

I never could put what has been going on..but this summed it up.

Understand that you have become the trigger for his bad feelings and bad behavior.

The irony...their actions inflict pain within us, and their bad feelings create bad behavior, which cycles around until...

Yes the last thing my ex said was she is guarded with me, that she wants to keep it to simple pleasantried, then the less we know about each other we won't have horrible conversations.  However, I did not initiate any of those rage fests, and I am not a trigger anymore. 5 weeks no contact YAY!

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[lovedabpd]

Much the same in my experience with ex as I have read here. She was always able to break away and disconnect so quickly...I always wondered how she could do that because the way I love, I could never walk away so abruptly. She would do 180's like it was nothing. She had the biggest most generous heart, could be so sweet loving and caring, but it came at a price because there were times when she would withhold all of this from me and project her coldness. We broke up about two months ago and it has been very painful.  She had divorced twice and hadn't dated for three years when we met.  |> In our 2.5 years together I also heard many times "sometimes love isn't enough", so when I read this in other experiences I was honestly shocked. I always thought that was an odd comment. I would respond, "love is all you need", but she didn't believe that. She had to be in control too, could be highly critical, demanding, was quick-triggered rageful at times, and would abandon me and the relationship seemingly out of nowhere.  |>  |>  |> I spent countless efforts trying to effectively communicate healthy resolutions, but often times we just ran circles around each other. I used reason, logic, rationale, but she often times would not see her own dysfunction. I was the therapist, but in her mind I was the culprit. It seemed that our relationship had to make up for the failures of her marriages, but I am now learning that perhaps it was her personality that caused those marriages to fail, and not the marriages that caused her personality. We lived three hours from each other so that made it even more difficult. She wanted to see each other every weekend and had an extremely difficult time staying home alone. Many times during arguements she would get so frustrated she would grab her bags and leave my apartment acting as if the relationship was over and spent the night in her car. She would later say she only intended to leave, but she left as if it were over. It was cyclical, she would cut and run, I would real her back, we would have some time of goodness, and the process would start all over again. I finally told her that if she threatened to leave or actually did leave that I wouldn't come after anymore, but I could never follow through with it. A year in she broke up through an email. 1.5 years in she broke up on the phone as she was coming to visit me, told me not to call her and hung up and gave me the silent treatment for two months. I sent her a card and she callled me. Because I actually cared about her and loved her, and supposedly she me, we got back togehter.  Her rages were often worsened if she had a few drinks too. Twice she kicked me out of her place over little disagreements, mainly her inability to be respectful to my polite requests about relationship type expectattions. She always had a wall, always had a foot a mile out the door. Toward the end I could'nt handle the distance any longer and moved to her town and in with her, a mistake. She agreed to it, but after a month, she blew up and tok her frustartion out on me for an entire day calling me all kinds of names and was just ugly and mean. I almost left that day, but stayed for another month. In the end, I left, which was extremely difficult because I loved her and she wanted me to stay and work on the relationship. I was very confused, hurt, and no longer had any real ability to make decisions. I had lost confidence in who I was and placed resumes for jobs out of the area. Was offfered a job out of the country and after mpainstaking deliberation for a couple weeks, accepted it.  I stayed on for a month before I left and we had a honymoon period of being sweet to each other, she was going to visit me and we were going to see how things went. Once a strong and capable decision maker in life, I became somebody who was upside down and when i got over to the job, had severe inability to sleep and major bouts of anxiety, and was unable to get it together to quickly adjust and returned to the U.S. I told her I wanted to work on the relationship, told her I made a mistake and told her how much she meant to me and that I wanted to do things the right way, get my own place in her town, and seeek counseling together. She had already begun counseling for her anger before I left. Anway, she cut me off and said she was no longer in my life and was moving on, that we weren't good for each other. I had been gone less than two weeks total.  I left al ot things at her place too which we had decided she would take care of and I would come get when i got back to the states, or if we stayed together i would move back to her town. She renigged on it and told me she would ship it, then told me she would meet me, then said she would ship it, but all along was just keeping me from driving to her town (11 hour drive).  In the end we decided to meet we chose a place that was 3/4 of the way to her town and were going to tranfser my stuff from her car to mine, but an hour before we were to meet at my hotel, she text me that that she had put my stuff in a storage unit, ggave me the aaddress, and combination. Needless to say, I was shocked, hurt, and pissed off!  Needless to say, its back to the slent treatment and I feel just like i felt so many times int the relationship, like we'll never talk again, but this time I know it is the real thing. Now I am learning about BPD and still suffering from the devaluing, abandonment, projected anger, loss of confidence, and extreme pain left over from all the hurtful behavior by her and that I am now having to start over with my life, new home, new job, new everything. Most of all, I still love her, I miss her companionship and I am at a loss sometimes on how too feel about all of it. I know I wrote a lot here and I probably sound like a complete fool, but hopefully, my story wil be met with empathy by those who have been subjected to similar experiences..

"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all."     Dale Carneghie                                                                                                                         

[OTH]

It is so difficult to lose somebody you love. Losing somebody to BPD is an intense emotional experience. The neediness draws us in but it isn't healthy. We neglect healthier relationships trying to please the BPD. We become lost because we are not getting proper emotional support. We think we can "love" our partner to good health. It isn't possible. We need to maintain our healthy relationships. They keep us grounded. It is OK to love our BPDs. The mistake we made was to make them the center of our life. Our partners should be a big part of our life but we can't neglect good relationships and the love from others in our lives. It leaves us isolated and vulnerable. Our own emotional health is just as important as our partners. 

[ElChicodeLeche]

Mine told me she loved me but love isn't enough.

I knew mine didn't think the same as me because when argued I could never get any detail as to why she was upset. I would try to figure out what I did to upset her. She would get madder and madder the more questions I asked because everything she said would be so vague... Such as I talked down to her or I didn't treat her the same anymore, or I didn't look at her the same anymore. I was madly in love with her still so it was all fantasy in her head. I told her that once and that really put her in a rage. If I kept asking questions she would start accusing me of not allowing her to express her emotions! To recap...she is upset... I try to find out what's wrong. She can't tell me. I keep questioning. She tells me she is mad at me because I keep questioning her and all she is trying to do is express her emotions! Ugggghhhhh!

I loved your post myself. So relevant. So similar except our feelings at the end. I let mine go in the end. I let go of my love for her too. Don't know how that is going to work out for me yet...I've ignored mine's request for talking... Mind you it is not a request to talk about the r/s... Her request comes with a condition. We have to make small talk and pretend nothing bad ever happened between us. Then we can talk... Until she feels like raging at me... Than I have to except her not talking to me for a few days  until she feels like engaging again with no mention of what just happened.

I let go but I haven't worked through all my emotions yet. I never want to see her again. She treated me horribly and I deserve better than that.       

RIGHT ON OTH. Exactly what i went through/feel/did/everything

[sea5045]

It is so difficult to lose somebody you love. Losing somebody to BPD is an intense emotional experience. The neediness draws us in but it isn't healthy. We neglect healthier relationships trying to please the BPD. We become lost because we are not getting proper emotional support. We think we can "love" our partner to good health. It isn't possible. We need to maintain our healthy relationships. They keep us grounded. It is OK to love our BPDs. The mistake we made was to make them the center of our life. Our partners should be a big part of our life but we can't neglect good relationships and the love from others in our lives. It leaves us isolated and vulnerable. Our own emotional health is just as important as our partners. 

Hi OTH- I did well over the holidays, decorated, stayed away from family dinners bc of the man who overinvolved himself with my ex, and hung out with some new people I've met. But it was still painful, still sad, still beating myself up that we aren't friends. And I was thinking today I needed to  get on the boards here again, because I am losing sight of the mentally ill part and the need to let go of an unhealthy relationship. Whether I stayed for me or her it was going to hurt, whether I let go for me or her, it hurts. It's like the movie "Sophie's choice" either hurts and stings for awhile and needs to be healed because I could not make it better, I could not master the art of communication. And I need to remember that it is not  my fault it wasn't healthy, it's the nature of the illness, and no one can make it  healthy...I heard she moved again and I'm assuming it is in with someone...hard to stomach but I try to wish her well in my heart so I can heal. Sea

[realityhurts]

"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all."     Dale Carneghie                                                                                                                         

Oooh, that's a dangerous statement. That's what got me here today.
I'm usually a determined optimist
I've learned that sometimes it's better to know when to give up.

[GreenMango]

As the relationship progressed I noticed this more and more, in both the big and little things our interpretations of events, people, or communication, could be very, very different.

Where I saw innocuous banter ... he saw someone insulting.

Where he saw opportunity ... I saw redflags.

What I interpreted as jealousy ... he interpreted as love.

This list could go on, but you get my drift.

-GM

[Desert]

"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all."     Dale Carneghie                                                                                                                        

Oooh, that's a dangerous statement. That's what got me here today.
I'm usually a determined optimist
I've learned that sometimes it's better to know when to give up.

Ayup.  The thing is simply that the regular rules don't apply to them.

There is no meeting of the minds.  In these circumstances, by common law there is no contract.  It makes me ponder whether there is any real r/s.  My conclusion is no.  As I have told myself endless times, "it's not real".

I believe the majority of pwBPD have a tenuous grasp of reality.  The lack of object constancy is consistent with this assertion, as is their frequent irrationality.  It's a terrible thing.  

I recognize that many are mean spirited and I stipulate that I can't speak to this.  My ex was not.  I believe she had "neutral", as opposed to good or bad character.  For those like her: they can't help acting the way they do, yet their behavior is so objectionable, so offensive, so repulsive that many are not inclined to "cut them any slack", so to speak.

One thing I have come to understand is that to pwBPD, nons are pretty much interchangeable.  This is why they can depart with such ease, and why they are in a (or several) new r/s (s) so quickly.  In essence, they get new partners to "read the lines" but they replay the same script, time after time.

My ex attempted to "recycle" me two weeks ago, after fifteen months of absolute NC.  In her extended voice mail she used the same manipulations she has always used to lure me back.  The essence of them was that I was special, different from (and better than) all her other partners.

The truth is that to her, I am, emotionally speaking, interchangeable with any other non.  The only reason she wished to "recycle" me was that she needed some things that she believed would be easier to acquire from me than from anyone else.  In this instance I believe these were material.

I believe it is possible that when she uttered certain words to me, that she actually believed them.  But how did she feel the next day?  

Understanding in my heart that to her, there was nothing special about me as a person, and I served only as a meal ticket and placeholder, was the final key to my permanent freedom.

NC maintained.

[jdcthunder14]

This was a difficult one for me. Even while she was with the guy she was cheating on me with (from other research very common in BPD) she was texting me "Love U."

It is obvious from that interaction with her that she has no idea of what real love is. So while I wanted to believe that the love I felt was the same for her, no way it could have been.

Thinking back in time and doing so without my rose colored glasses, the relationship was very one sided... I am guessing that is a common theme with these types of relationships.

[findingmyselfagain]

This belief was one of my biggest hooks. How could a soulmate turn into Darth Vader overnight? How could she not feel as deeply as I did for her? All of the excitement planning a wedding and our life together suddenly meaningless! It's a difficult truth to accept, but accepting it has led to my freedom. I don't wish ill on her b/c I understand she is quite broken. I see it as a very intense life lesson and wake-up call. NC is for me, but it also gives her a better chance to rescue herself.

[lastwave]

"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all."     Dale Carneghie                                                                                                                        

Oooh, that's a dangerous statement. That's what got me here today.
I'm usually a determined optimist
I've learned that sometimes it's better to know when to give up.

Ayup.  The thing is simply that the regular rules don't apply to them.

There is no meeting of the minds.  In these circumstances, by common law there is no contract.  It makes me ponder whether there is any real r/s.  My conclusion is no.  As I have told myself endless times, "it's not real".


One thing I have come to understand is that to pwBPD, nons are pretty much interchangeable.  This is why they can depart with such ease, and why they are in a (or several) new r/s (s) so quickly.  In essence, they get new partners to "read the lines" but they replay the same script, time after time.

My ex attempted to "recycle" me two weeks ago, after fifteen months of absolute NC.  In her extended voice mail she used the same manipulations she has always used to lure me back.  The essence of them was that I was special, different from (and better than) all her other partners.

The truth is that to her, I am, emotionally speaking, interchangeable with any other non.  The only reason she wished to "recycle" me was that she needed some things that she believed would be easier to acquire from me than from anyone else.  In this instance I believe these were material.

I believe it is possible that when she uttered certain words to me, that she actually believed them.  But how did she feel the next day?  

Understanding in my heart that to her, there was nothing special about me as a person, and I served only as a meal ticket and placeholder, was the final key to my permanent freedom.

NC maintained.

   Thanks this post. I have just stared NC (six days today) and absolutely believe (though it hurts) that she thought of me like a normal person would think of a toaster (in my case it was cash station ?). When the toaster looks like it is going to stop working (may abandoned her) she immediately throws it away and begins looking for another toaster (unless, of course, there is a toaster already in her possession). But in the back of her mind the toaster that it (ME) may still work again --a few more slices of toast--so she doesn't send it to the trash but puts it on a high shelf in the back of a closet--so that she has another backup in case the new toaster fails. The are lots of discarded toasters on that shelf.

[Confuzzled104]

this topic got me strolling down memory lane. all of the fights and arguments i put up with. i remember talking to my friend about it and that was the first time i got confirmation that what was going on was actually abuse.  Up until that point i was stuck in her fantasy world isolated left only with my core valuees and principles to defend me. Like so many have expressed here my uBPDexgf of 3 years was on a totally different wavelength than i was and i too witnessed a transformation from the person i knew to the monster that came to be. When i expressed this to her she said that "thiss is who she really was" after that i started running knew it was over.  alot of the fights usually centered around me not loving her enough, hugging her enough, kissing her enough, spending enough time with her. the whole gamit of questioning my love for her when i never gave her a reason to suspect me of cheating. I was committed to her. She would even argue that i worked too much yet she alwayss wanted to expected me to take her out and spend money on her?

I am so glad i am 4 months out NC with her but still dealing with the detachment.
I hope others fair better thn i did
confuzzled

[jdcthunder14]

In the devaluing phase we are as unplesant to them as a smelly skunk in the room. Try standing next to a dead skunk in the road and then try and convince yourself it doesn't stink. 

[jason519]

Nope.  No way.  No How.

My BPD can not, objectively, feel the same way about me as I do her.  I know I could write thousands of examples, but, that she says she is every bit as devastated as me while having sex with her boyfriend, just doesn't hold water.  Not sure how specifically she feels, probably scared, angry, vengeful, guilty, ... really gooooood..., but she does not feel the same as I do.  And never has.

[Whitefang]

Nope, if they were in the same rs we were in, it wouldnt be discarded like trash.  I had a nasty divorce yrs ago & after all was said & done, we can actually talk occasionally now.  Why?  Bc we were in the same rs all those yrs & both aware of the breakdown.  We fought, screamed, acted like we hated each other (prob did at the time) but moved on& healed at the same time, staying on the same page!

I cite this bc it signifies the diff between more "healthy" & not.  Either way, "normal" people still realize they spent a portion of their lives with someone, thus remembering it, usually eventually able to see the best of it bc that's what we choose to take away (for me anyway). 

Above helped me heal from a rs that wasn't gonna work & needed to end after all else failed.  This BPD rs showed the first signs of perceived "trouble" (where I was kicked off the pedastal) to never return.  Spent over a year trying.  I can honestly say I've never left (or been ditched) when I still held so many unresolved issues or such feelings.  Even my anger was suppressed by her sudden NC along with everything else. 

No way they feel the same.  Moving on from this is a long process...11 days NC.  I broke once.  Did no good...kicked myself in the balls afterwards.

[de_lagem]

I'm reading all these posts with disbelief...this is exactly what has happened to me. Exactly.
one month no contact and I am struggling. While I understand he will not give validation, our last conversation was via phone and he threatened to 'destroy' my world if I contacted him again.
We move in the same small circle of entertainers. He has been spreading lies about me. I want to contact him and try to calmly explain he has nothing to fear from me, but I'm not sure what his reaction, if any, would be. I think he would see me contacting him as a betrayal of trust - even though he has informed me he doesn't trust me, in the very same conversation he demanded a promise not to contact him again
Please don't attack me. I'm halfway between the 'hopeful' stage (that we could maintain the friendship we had and the 'resigned'stage. He has moved on with someone else. I'm extremely confused and hurt 

[careman]

I think our egos took the brunt of the impact. Our sense of self-worth was bolstered up by them. Then at the end, it was nearly destroyed. Having your self-confidence shattered into tiny pieces is a life changing thing. We shy away from social engagements, we recede into the background like a shadow. The feeling of self-worth is probably the most damaging thing that anyone can lose. A feeling of self-worth gives us confidence to get out and interact with others, and simply enjoy life. It's no wonder we're afraid of new experiences, new relationships.

It takes a long time to realize what's really happened here and why. It's only when we do that we can begin to regain some confidence and open up to what's out there in the world.

Very true, it has taken me almost eighteen months and lots of soul searching to get out there again and feel centered and whole.

same-same. So well put.
Know myself as a juicy, creative and 'going' person. But now. Have withdrawn from social engagements a lot. Not completely. Important is now feeling safe, no challanges, routines, solitude (yet sometimes difficult)
/Careman