Do people say things they don't mean when they're angry?

[Fubar]

This is a question that's come up with my wife.

I'm of the opinion that anger removes filters that normally keep us from saying unacceptable things.  So we're likely to say things that we wouldn't say otherwise.  But those things are in our heads waiting to bubble up.

My wife claims that when she's angry, she says things she doesn't mean.  So when she calls me a foul name, she can just say that she was angry and didn't mean it.  When she tells me that she thinks my back is disgusting and oily, she can say she was just angry and didn't mean it when she decides later that she wants to snuggle. 

This is more of a general question than one related specifically to BPD.

Any thoughts?

[uk guy]

Yes they do. In the heat of an argument, it all boils down to hurting the other one into backing down, no longer about the subject of the argument. A self defence strategy, hurt them to stop them hurting me. Also an attack strategy.

The things we mean the most are said when we are calm and collective.

[Im done]

I'm of the opinion that a person who is emotionally mature and healthy, when angry, will still have the filters in place to prevent them from saying unacceptable things.  An adult who uses the excuse that they were angry to explain away why they said such things is just avoiding responsibility.

A person with BPD apparently doesn't have such filters - they have diminished executive function (i.e. poor impulse control).  But to explain to you ahead of time that they say things they don't mean when they're angry and then proceed to say hurtful things - obviously they're aware that they do it so are they also just avoiding responsibility?

[seeking balance]

yes, everyone at some point in their lives have said things in anger that they did not mean.

Victimnomore hit the nail on the head -with emotional maturity, we realize there our consequences to actions or words.

[confusedandscare]

Yes, been there done that. They will say hurtful things or call u names in order to have you back down. My ex excuse was that i triggered her anger so whatever she said was well deserved. They usually never apologize and within the next five minutes they expect you to be ok. They usually say it is on the past and we should just move on. Easy say when they are ones dishing out all the insults. This is a form of verbal abuse and since you already married she now feels more comfortable letting her true self come out. They will paint you either black or white and you will be constantly walking on eggshells hoping that she doesnt go off but that doesnt really work as you are her punching bag for any other issues happening that triggered her anger whether is related to you or not. My advice is that as you see her anger coming to remove yourself from the situation and go for a walk or something. Some people will claim that is not the best thing to do but validation didnt work for me as I felt it was losing myself trying to validate someone who felt insulting was part of her day to day routine. If you dont have any kids, my advice is to get out but I know that is easier said than done.

[Fubar]

So when someone is angry, they say things that aren't in their minds when they're not angry?

When an angry man calls his wife a fat btch, he may really have no issue at all with her weight when he's not angry?

I just can't buy the idea that we have a whole different set of thoughts about someone when we're angry.  I believe those thoughts are already there, but unexpressed until the filters drop.

If a man calls his wife a fat btch in anger, it's a pretty good bet he's thought of her that way when he's calm.

[xxostedd]

In the last 18 months I have only 'lost it' 3 times. Albeit very short and to the point in trying to get her to ... .stop! I knew immediately that what I said each time would be hurtful and hardly productive (i.e.---You're are FN NUTS!) considering the illness. I apologized each time within seconds because I knew that I let her 'get to me'.

As for the SO, I really do think that they know they can 'get away with it... .' so to speak. No, they aren't apologetic unless it is in their best interest.

But... .I can say that the verbal abuse has ceased almost completely once she knew I would not put up with the 'unacceptable behavior' no longer. At this, I stood my ground and she knew it!

[dados76]

idk... R and i have had some pretty out there fights... where we both said stuff that we didnt really mean... on both sides... that just felt really true at the moment  people w/BPD arent the only ones that can get dysregulated

[gWocky00]

I had to frame my responses because I couldnt use that excuse about being in the heat of the moment , as her comeback would always be "well there is always a little truth in anything someone says". 

[LW1968]

Of course they say things they don't mean when they're angry.

Conversely, think of how you feel when you're on the receiving end.  If you're in a good mood & someone says something foul to you, it's more likely to roll off your back.  If you're angry, it's more likely to stick and hurt.  Doesn't mean it's any more true or false--it's your mood that makes you interpret it in such a way.

[Shanley]

My wife claims that when she's angry, she says things she doesn't mean.  So when she calls me a foul name, she can just say that she was angry and didn't mean it.

I've heard this one too. I don't care whether my H means it or not, I'm outta there when this nonsense starts. I don't think a healthy relationship between two rational adults involves anyone being called a fat btch whether it was meant it at the time or not. Everyone says stuff they don't really mean but level of it is the difference.

[TomGWarrior]

Yep. I think we've probably all lost our composure at some point along the way, but while I may say things in the heat of the moment that I wouldn't say otherwise, I've never said anything I didn't truly feel.

My uGF, on the other hand, will blurt out anything she feels like when she's angry, I assume to hurt me.

She's always had filter issues anyway (I assume because of the disorder), but she definitely crosses from insensitive to spiteful in anger.

[PainOfAge]

Well, speaking personally:

Yea I do.  Sometimes it is something I was already thinking, that in my anger I decide isn't any worse than what has already been said and I let it go.

Sometimes, I will say something JUST to be mean, something carefully crafted to push a button.

But you know... .there are things that I never, ever say.  Even when super angry.  I just don't cross certain lines.

With my wife, it is different.  She seems to immediately jump across that line and develop some real nasty stuff to say to me.  I do not know if it is the same for her though, because a lot of the time the same themes keep popping into horrible comments, which makes me think there is an underlying theme.

[Ace]

Personally I think they mean it, no pun intended.    

They feel hurt/betrayed/abandoned/uncared for/etc... .and so lash out to hurt you back like you "hurt them".  Social norm blockers are pushed aside and their anger takes over.  We all do this, some more than others based on how emotionally mature we are.  Think of a kid being called a name, they call a name back right?  Think of those with BPD having the same emotional maturity as kids.  

We all have ideas of what is and isn't socially acceptable or appropriate to say to someone.  We sometimes lie and say food tastes good when it doesn't, or say someone looks beautiful when they don't, or say a kid looks cute when they don't, or say we had a good time when we didn't.  When dysregulated, those ideas are thrown out the window and they revert back to the reptilian part of their brain.  Fight or flight.  Basically survival, for them kicks in.  Some ignore or storm off (flight), some fight it out and attack, mercilessly.  This is where mean things are said, but their is some logic to these mean things, in other words, they probably feel them to be true, at least at the time.  I find during an outburst that a lot of the mean things my wife says are relating to past events that she has misinterpreted and judges me based on those.  She might call me selfish because she thinks I ate the last donut when in fact it was my son.  Who knows, right?    The reason is they feel attacked/abandoned/unloved/uncared for/etc... .(most likely percieved) and take fight or flight.  Now if you or I are attacked we may do the same fight or flight, but probably on a much smaller scale, not armageddon style like those with BPD.

I think they will most likely feel guilt over what they said after the fact, but that doesn't take away from the fact that they probably meant it and said it at the time due to uncontrollable anger from fear.  Think how you would feel if you lost control of your anger and called your friends baby ugly.  Not a great example, but even if you thought that the baby is ugly, you wouldn't want your friend to think you thought that right?  You would feel guilty afterwards even though what you said you truly felt.        

[an0ught]

My wife claims that when she's angry, she says things she doesn't mean.  So when she calls me a foul name, she can just say that she was angry and didn't mean it.  When she tells me that she thinks my back is disgusting and oily, she can say she was just angry and didn't mean it when she decides later that she wants to snuggle.  

This is more of a general question than one related specifically to BPD.

Any thoughts?

I think this is very much a question of BPD. It actually touches at the heart of the dysfunctional dance.

Dysregulation - a state all too easily entered by pwBPD - switches a human back to their reptilian brain - great when faced with a tiger but limited upside when faced with a spouse.

Now what is done in that state? People with BPD tend to transfer their emotions (so much that some therapy approaches focus on this aspect). So the words or actions chosen will tend to evoke a similar emotion that is felt by the pwBPD.

So while she may not intend it - her actions while she is out of control are instinctively aimed at transferring her "angry" (or whatever) emotion on the other person. Words and actions are extremely well targeted and they do hit hard. A lifetime of instinctively doing that ensure a very good success rate. This is why temporarily leaving when dysregulated is a good idea... .

She may not intend it - she may not control it - but she is expert in it.

[once removed]

Fubar,

I think so. Certainly, I think, the BPD does. I try not to, most of us do, but I'm certainly guilty.

[1bravegirl]

Many times a pwBPD or one w/o it can be very spiteful and mean spirited and say things they know will hurt.  bottom line.  being in control. or using the same degrading methods they were treated with from their parents.

or they say horribly mean things as a way to take the focus off of themselves and put their pain onto you.  If you are consumed with emotional pain from their words and feel bad about yourself, they can take a breather for a minute and feel they're not alone. or not the only bad one. 

they paint us black with words when it is what they feel about themselves. or they put us down cuz they feel so down trodden in their own soul from the years of abuse they haven't processed and made peace with.

[once removed]

two more cents.

i actually tend to agree with pretty much everything everyone has said thus far. i think it differs with everyone, too.

again, i think the BPD is the exception. and with them, there are a lot of different answers. someone mentioned themes. that seems to me, very common with the BPD. the problem with the BPD is, they will project, invent, create, throw at you and accuse you of things that sound VERY strange or out of nowhere. this can be, apparently for several reasons.

in a lot of cases, they are perceiving it. they are perceiving that their needs aren't being met. it doesn't matter if its true. in a lot of cases, its because they are actually guilty. if a BPD starts accusing you of cheating, thats a serious warning sign that they've cheated, are cheating, or will cheat.

we know what arguing with a BPD is like. how the most thoughtful, logical, calm, rational answer, thought, or explanation SAILS over their head, or even makes them angrier. a lot of this INHERENTLY means they're saying things they dont mean.

my ex for example, could sometimes actually recognize this behavior. and she would swear to me no, i dont really feel that way. no you're not really guilty of that. no you shouldn't listen to me. others she would swear she really felt that way. or part of her felt that way. or she felt that way to a lesser degree. or she knew it wasn't true but still felt that way.

sometimes there's a kernel of truth, sometimes it's their own guilt, sometimes it's been building up, sometimes it may be as simple as they had a manic episode and threw whatever they could. in other words, these people become out of their minds. so yes, they can say things they dont mean. and it is VERY true they dont consider the consequences, and dont understand the damage they've done, and the full impact of their actions. thats what i used to constantly tell my ex. i'd have to get away from her after these fights. to cool off. to recover. to be able to stand her again. and she'd never give me that opportunity. and i'd put as much distance as i could for the time being. what i didn't know, was that that distance was setting the stage for the break up. you think if you get far away enough from them, if you break up with them, whatever, that they'll "see the light". they dont, and they wont.

for most of us, its a bit more logical, and probably varies. and it can be as simple as we said things not quite how we meant them, or "in the heat of the moment" or more strongly than we really felt them. i told my ex "i can't stand you." i felt horrible, as the tears from her eyes were instantaneous. what i meant was, you make me unable to be around you or tolerate you. you drive me away. etc. not that i hated her guts, or didnt love her. so there's differing degrees as to the extent that i "meant" that statement." i also know i've called someone a psycho before. did i mean they were actually psychotic? no, of course not. i think that has to be classified as "saying something i didnt mean". i did certainly think their behavior at the time was a bit psychotic though.

[T2Logan]

It's a double standard for my gf. She claims that what *I* say in anger is what I really mean, yet when I bring this up to her it doesn't apply and she said mean things to hurt me, but didn't mean it because she couldn't control herself, etc.

[TomGWarrior]

It's a double standard for my gf. She claims that what *I* say in anger is what I really mean, yet when I bring this up to her it doesn't apply and she said mean things to hurt me, but didn't mean it because she couldn't control herself, etc.

I've had this conversation more than once the morning after a major fight:

Her: I know I may have overreacted last night. But I cannot be in a relationship with someone who threatens to kick me out every time we get into a fight. You get mad and you lose control and I won't be around that.

Me: I didn't threaten to kick you out. You threatened to leave. Remember? I just said 'fine, if that's what you want, go.'

Her: I know I said that. But I didn't mean it. But you... .you definitely meant it.

[Auspicious]

Multiple possibilities I think.

1. You don't mean/believe it at all, but you say it anyway to wound.

2. You mean or believe it at the time you say it, in the midst of anger. But the anger blocks off any nuances or balance you might bring to the thought. Or the anger literally distorts your perceptions of reality - e.g. "she always does this stuff, I can't take it!" when of course she doesn't always do this stuff.

[once removed]

tomgwarrior,

i hope i'm laughing with you. i want to scream on your behalf "BUT WE'RE STILL HAVING A CONVERSATION ABOUT SOMETHING I DIDN'T SAY OR DO."

[Writer]

My Partner and I have had this discussion repeatedly. Before learning about BPD, I was firmly of the opinion that angry words are words you mean, but held back when you weren't angry. Now, I believe that BPD brings about words that arent meant, but are known to inflict pain. I came to this realization recently when my Partner asked about my anxiety during a good white phase and I responded that I was nervous about something she said the last time we argued. She legitimately had no recollection of saying such a thing. And I believed her. This demonstrated to me that she didn't actually mean it, she just wanted to hurt me at the time of the argument.

She has also tried the "I didn't mean it, but you did" game with me. I firmly put my foot down "either we both meant it, or we both didnt.". There is no other way to resolve anything.

[Auspicious]

I think the idea that what we blurt out in anger is somehow more likely to be true than what we normally say is a lot like the idea that what we blurt out when drunk is more likely to be true than what we say when we are sober.

"In vino, veritas ... ." goes the saying, but I personally don't think that's always so. Sometimes, in vino there's only ... .vino

[Ace]

This thread is getting interesting.    

I sometimes think the lack of recollecting inappropriate behaviors or things they say has more to do with guilt over them and facing the consequences.  Maybe when they are of "right" frame of mind, they see their previous inappropriate actions for what they are... .inappropriate, and so feel guilt over them.  If they admit to them without the usual, "But _____" which is basically excusing the bad behaviors and lessening the feeling of guilt, then they would be putting themselves out there where you could hurt them.  Speaking for myself, my wife does not like to feel vulnerable, since she has a severe lack of trust for anyone.  If she admits and apologizes for something, 95% of the time the apology ends with a "but hit__" or some other excuse for the behavior, which I can only hypothesize takes the sting out of it for her.  That 5% of apologies where she doesn't do that, I can feel how scared she is, which in her mind she is really going out on a limb and trusting I won't hurt her with her testimony (apology) that she was wrong/bad/etc... .  This is why apologies almost never come from the BPD in our lives.  Guilt.  Admitting they were wrong forces them to feel guilt, which is painful. 

[TomGWarrior]

If she admits and apologizes for something, 95% of the time the apology ends with a "but hit__" or some other excuse for the behavior, which I can only hypothesize takes the sting out of it for her.  That 5% of apologies where she doesn't do that, I can feel how scared she is, which in her mind she is really going out on a limb and trusting I won't hurt her with her testimony (apology) that she was wrong/bad/etc... .  This is why apologies almost never come from the BPD in our lives.  Guilt.  Admitting they were wrong forces them to feel guilt, which is painful. 

I think you hit the nail on the head here. That, or your wife and my GF are the same person

[Ace]

Ha ha ha, funny.  She has cheated on me, so it isn't out of the realm of possibilities. 

Fear of abandonment can manifest itself in so many ways.  I don't think us non's can truly understand, theorize or predict all the ways. 

I guess we can look at the "half" apology as at least them trying, but I will call my wife out on the carpet sometimes with the "There is no excuse for treating someone inappropriately." when she starts in with the "but... ." or the "I just... ."  An apology and hopefully it won't happen again is all I ask.  Not an excuse.  I guess I am kind of a hard ass now since I have seen the light.    So many years of putting up with it.  No more.   

[Vivgood]

As a Non, I may blurt something in anger that I normally do not, "FU!" (I never swear), but as a borderline, I reached deep and spoke to wound, so that my partner would be as hurt as I felt. I never do that as a Non and probabaly COULD not (without heavy financial incentive ). Its just not part of a Non emotional experience and doesn't have the tsunami-level emotional force and the... .viciousness behind it that theBPD does. I think that's part of why this question is relevant- what  Non means by the word "anger" may not be what a BPD means by the word "anger". Maybe "violent malicious rage" is more accurate!

vivgood

[Ace]

Ha ha ha... right, sort of a scale of intense negative emotion, running from violent tsunami to cataclysmic volcano eruption.  To us, we may not see much difference, but to the BPD, the violent tsunami might be them "being nice". 

[MyBPIsEvil]

This is a question that's come up with my wife.

I'm of the opinion that anger removes filters that normally keep us from saying unacceptable things.  So we're likely to say things that we wouldn't say otherwise.  But those things are in our heads waiting to bubble up.

My wife claims that when she's angry, she says things she doesn't mean.  So when she calls me a foul name, she can just say that she was angry and didn't mean it.  When she tells me that she thinks my back is disgusting and oily, she can say she was just angry and didn't mean it when she decides later that she wants to snuggle. 

This is more of a general question than one related specifically to BPD.

Any thoughts?

A very good topic.  Speaking only for myself as a Non-BP with anxiety issues fighting with a BP who says horrible things about me in anger, it's a mix of truth, exaggerated versions of my true feelings, and thigns I don't mean. 

Truth in that I explode about things that have bothered me but that I hold back on.  Exaggerated truth in that I make a bigger thing out of the bad things she says and does, in order to make my point about resentment.  Things I don't mean in that I can get into a tit-for-tat game with her.   She calls me 100 names in a minute, I'll fire back with maybe 5 or 6, occasionally hitting a low blow to make her hurt as much as I am.  Or if she insults my family as losers, scum, trash, I'll hit back on her family.  That I've stopped doing, in order to take the high road and because I don't really feel that way.  It just hurts the way she trashes my family all the while she's made it harder to have a strong, close relationship with them, meanwhile she's got the "perfect relationship" (in honesty, she's never got an impediment from me to spend quality time with her folks) with hers.

[once removed]

mybpisevil,

don't want to tell you what to do or anything, just doesn't sound like most of that is productive. doesn't seem like it makes you feel any better hitting back when she's trashing you. it's certainly my experience that arguing with a BPD when they're like that is not only pointless, but counter productive. and i certainly know how difficult it is to resist. i KNEW that and yet i did it anyway all the time. they say something, and your mind gets cranking, and you think THIS time you can stop it. THIS time you can come up with that PERFECTLY rationale, calm, logical, bullet proof statement. every time, it sails over their head. or you hit them back, for whatever reason. this tends to make things worse, or ONLY hurt them. not make them understand or see the hurt they're putting you through. they dont understand that. i also understand a whole lot of BPDs make it very difficult to get away from their berating.

[Fubar]

mybpisevil,

don't want to tell you what to do or anything, just doesn't sound like most of that is productive. doesn't seem like it makes you feel any better hitting back when she's trashing you. it's certainly my experience that arguing with a BPD when they're like that is not only pointless, but counter productive. and i certainly know how difficult it is to resist. i KNEW that and yet i did it anyway all the time. they say something, and your mind gets cranking, and you think THIS time you can stop it. THIS time you can come up with that PERFECTLY rationale, calm, logical, bullet proof statement. every time, it sails over their head. or you hit them back, for whatever reason. this tends to make things worse, or ONLY hurt them. not make them understand or see the hurt they're putting you through. they dont understand that. i also understand a whole lot of BPDs make it very difficult to get away from their berating.

Holy crap!  It's like you're talking about me in the first 18 months after everything came to a head with my uBPDw!

I can't tell you how many times I told my counselor about yet another big blow-up with her yelling and me yelling, and he'd ask me why I was yelling . . . it makes perfect sense now, but at the time it was inconceivable that I'd do anything OTHER than yell back--we were FIGHTING.

I had episodes of rage triggered by my w's refusal to let me disengage.  She's follow me from room to room, browbeating and calling names, and I'd blow.  And as much as I hated it, I'd still find myself falling into that trap because we were FIGHTING--what else are you going to do?

It wasn't until I found myself literally running out of things to say that I suddenly found myself able to NOT fight.  I simply realized that every damn thing I came up with to counter her accusations would simply be either turned against me or twisted around in completely unexpected ways.  And I gave up.  It just didn't work to fight.

I had spent literally months and years trying to use reason and logic and cunning to fight what was clearly NOT reasonable or logical.

I'm still not much good at validation and all the tools available on this site.  But I can say that I've learned that fighting gets you nowhere and escalates your frustration level beyond belief.

[AwareNow]

ANGER/RESPONSIBILITY

The drunk driver who kills the innocent says, 'I didn't mean to do it' The fact is that he destroyed someone who did nothing to deserve it. I see the 'anger defense' as a total lack of responsibility and denial of the hurt and pain they cause. My empathy to those who who are so self centered that they feel justified in saying or doing whatever they refuse to control is, in short supply. Irrespective of what we may define as 'Love', to remain with someone who clearly is more concerned with their own emotional indulgences than the edification of their partners should be left to their own devices away from those whom they cannot or will not love.

AN

[once removed]

fubar,

i think i mentioned i'd (unbeknown to me) been in 3 other BPD relationships so i felt somewhat prepared for this one. i'd more or less learned the behavior "when they go crazy ignore them." the even deeper thing is all the different KINDS of fights, caused by all the different kinds of things. what makes them escalate, vs what triggers full blown psychosis. the episodes where they beat you down, as opposed to the episodes where it's just them complaining about something and YOU just dont get it. as you mentioned, they also just imagine and perceive things. they can't hear you, or understand you, and thats important to remember. and in simple terms, they really do see it/feel this way, atleast at the time. thats why its pointless. it is like arguing with a child, not a brick wall. sometimes it's literally like arguing with a child. it's also interesting to trace back to pre and post breakup and realize how black we were painted.

my ex could push my buttons unlike anyone else too, and she did, so dont feel bad. i never ever rage against anyone. the furthest i ever went was putting a hole in the wall, but that's not exactly insignificant. it's important to remember yes, you are human, and yes, it can make anyone snap. it's also important to realize that kind of stress, especially if constant, is obviously not good for anyone. when i would describe the way it made me feel, i used to take two fingers and rapidly jab them into whoevers should i was explaining it to. yeah. if a person sits there and does that to you, it doesn't take long to snap.

[Fubar]

My rages never took the form of physical violence toward my wife.  It was more of a puffing up, screaming in her face, and feeling like the wrath of god when she would cringe from me (finally--after pushing me into corner after corner).

It sickens me to think of losing that much control and behaving in a way I'd imagined foreign to me.

But I did it, and the only positive thing is that I didn't get physical with her--more pounding tables and doors and walls.

It was so ugly and I hope to never open that part of myself again. 

[AwareNow]

fubar,

I can totally relate. Although my fuse is long, the continue provocation by my ex was not complete until she turned me into a equal chaotic reactive idiot myself. I think we should be commended for controlling ourselves to the degree we did after direct and continual harassment, taunts and daring.

AN

[crushed-not-broken]

Interesting thread... .I lost it only once in my 3 year relationship with my exhusband w/BPD traits.  He would habitually follow me from room to room, yelling at me accusations of having bad motives toward him and at one point I picked up and threw a small stained-glass candle holder at his feet to stop him from advancing.  At that moment, his eyes flared in a gleeful way---he finally had me angry and it was an adrenaline rush for him.  He liked this!  Of course 2 hours later after I sincerely apologized for my bad reaction, he told me that I was "insane".

Of course, it was fuel for his abandonment of our marriage and gave him the ammo for his smear campaign against me, telling everyone, including the pastor at our church that I abused him and I needed a psychologist.  I never verbally told him off, never tried to one-up him or put  him down.  I had no ill-will toward him (and still don't).  He told me once that he needed to lash out when he felt hurt, to which I replied that I no longer have the need to hurt others who hurt me.

I believe the BPD means every word he says when he is angry.  It's the distorted thinking they draw on, distortions which they believe over all evidence to the contrary.  I never once received an apology for his raging and his betrayal of our marriage.  But, I'm moving forward now... .

[Vanityvanity]

I think that people can just dream up nasty, hurtful things to say in the heat of a row - I know I have myself. But I think it's also possible that the lack of inhibition caused by anger can make people reveal truths that were hidden before.

My ex lived with his parents, and every row meant he'd go back there. During a row towards the end, I said, "Oh, run back home to your mummy and daddy!" Because that was what he did so often. Even if he wasn't "having time apart", he'd be spending several nights a week there. He said he had to look after them (they were elderly and ill) but in fact he did very little caring - paid carers came in and his mother did all the housework.

It wasn't just anger at him always being about to leave me, it was anger at really being "the other woman" in that incestuous triangulation.

I'm just rambling a lot here. The way I look at it, it's better than lying in bed feeling miserable or (horrors!) trying to phone him.

[loz1982]

I am on the Leaving Board and I have had my ex call me moron, stupid, slut all because I was trying to make him accountable for being rude to my parents. I don't care if you are angry or not, those words are not acceptable and they will stick. You can apologise all you want but I will never forget them. I get angry but would never dream of calling him name, I have called him a very mean person which he was at times but I have the maturity not to stoop to that level. This is another reason I think my ex has BPD, his immaturity and lack of ability to think before he speaks. My question is, is owning up to his behaviour mean he can change it? Ive asked him to get help or else I don't feel comfortable about coming back but he says he is too busy? Words are words I need to see actions. How can you say someone is the love of your life and then use those names, there is obviously something mental going on there!

[elemental]

I say things when I am angry that are true about what I think and feel. I also say things I really don't mean and I said to make a point to get the other person to feel some empathy.

Essentially when I get truely angry, the filter between my brain and mouth can disappear. Diplomacy and patience are gone at that point. I guess trypically my manners are very good, but pushed beyond limits and I am blunt and it can sound really mean.

I am working on that... .

[Samuel S.]

Yes, people do say things when they're angry. They may be really saying how they feel, and they may not be really saying how they feel. My BPDw continuously says not to take anything personally. As a matter of fact, she drew those very same words "do not take anything personally" and has them on our refrigerator. While this may or may not be true, the fact of the matter is that if you have not done anything wrong, our BPDs have said hateful words, hateful words that can't be taken back. They remain. They may wish to snuggle afterwards, but the fact of the matter remains it is a false way to try to restore stability. My BPDw has said some very hateful things to me in our marriage, and she expects me to forget them, just as much as she forgets them. Yet, the hateful things remain in your heart and in your soul, no matter how apologetic or how forgiving they may seem to appear. So, it is a question if we nonBPDs can forgive and forget. If it is one or several times that hateful things are said, maybe; however, when it is a continuous matter, it is hard to trust them, it is hard to forgive them, and it is hard to forget them.

[maxen]

fubar,

I can totally relate. Although my fuse is long, the continue provocation by my ex was not complete until she turned me into a equal chaotic reactive idiot myself. I think we should be commended for controlling ourselves to the degree we did after direct and continual harassment, taunts and daring.

AN

i am very grateful for this FOG-busting post.