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Author Topic: Success rates of DBT  (Read 2216 times)
hotapollo
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« on: May 04, 2011, 07:23:51 AM »

After a fantastic behaviour for the past four months..my dBPDw lost it the last couple of days.
She is back to her clear thinking now and has agreed to visit a counseller who is an expert in DBT. ( i did not mention that she has BPD)...just that she needs to see someone with DBT.

I have given her a time till this weekend to hunt out someone. But I was wondering even if she doest take DBT lessons...how effective is it?

Does thier inner core change? do they see reason and get maturity in thoughts or do they just change or mellow thier behaviour?
How long does it take for the change? Do they go into regression at any time?
Is it worth for me to hang around hoping that she gets better with BPD...or should I quit irrespective of her results? I clearly cannot stay if she continues her craziness.
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LW1968
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2011, 09:03:47 AM »

My husband has been doing it now for...6 weeks?  I lost track of the exact amount of time; it may be closer to 2 months now.

The most severe behavior has been curbed.  Changes are certainly very visible.  He looks more at peace with himself lately, as well.

Keep in mind that "relapse is a part of recovery".  There will be slips, but the key is how the person reacts to each slip up.  DBT can help a person learn that a slip up is not the end, but rather a lesson to be learned and another building block in the road to recovery.
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peacebaby
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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2011, 09:15:35 AM »

My partner has done DBT and it has changed her a lot. It's made her much better at coping with everything because she has the skills to do it now. After the intensive 6 month course, the following things deminished to none or almost never: psychosis, anxiety attacks, agoraphobia, self-injury and suicide attempts. Two years later, she is very productive, much better at handling and talking about emotions, much more affectionate. It's like she went from emotional age 8 to age 21 in two years.

She's still in treatment and on meds, and she still has problems with agression/violence, but the BPD is in general much better--she used to have all the diagnostic criteria and now only has about half. Most importantly, she feels better than she used to.

None of this would have happened if she didn't work harder than she'd ever worked in her life. So if you're in love and your partner is ready to work, I say stick around and learn the DBT skills yourself.
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LW1968
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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2011, 09:23:36 AM »

Meds!  I forgot to mention meds.  My H is also on Tegretol right now.  It's therefore a 2-pronged approach.  Our marriage counselor reiterated last night how success rates are greatly improved by doing both medication and DBT concurrently, in her experience.
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an0ught
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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2011, 02:53:04 PM »

Changing the way a person copes with distressing emotions takes time and requires commitment to work on it - more than anything else. Generally the long term prospects are good for pwBPD signing up for DBT. There is a large scale study ongoing since 10+ years where a lot of comparative statistics have come out. How long a change takes - we can not know in any particular case, but these are the stats:

Quote
RESULTS: Eighty-eight percent of the patients with borderline personality disorder studied achieved remission. In terms of time to remission, 39.3% of the 242 patients who experienced a remission of their disorder first remitted by their 2-year follow-up, an additional 22.3% first remitted by their 4-year follow-up,...

You find more information here: http://BPDfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=117735.0

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dados76
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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2011, 02:05:54 AM »

Quote
Does thier inner core change? do they see reason and get maturity in thoughts or do they just change or mellow thier behaviour?

both.. R has been through abt 3 years of dbt.. not dx borderline anymore.. not on meds.. hes still a weird person.. but i think thats just how he is on the inside.. idk about seeing reason lol .. hes still human..

Quote
How long does it take for the change?

couple of years.. some changes started pretty early on.. w/coping.. id say after abt 4 - 6 mo there were pretty big changes.. most profound changes have been in the past year..

Quote
Do they go into regression at any time?

usually stuff is gonna get worse before it gets better..

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Is it worth for me to hang around hoping that she gets better with BPD...or should I quit irrespective of her results?

depends what you can/cant live with..
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hotapollo
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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2011, 03:15:34 AM »

Thank you for your posts.

I am in a situation where my wife has agreed to see a therapist as it is "causing problems in our marriage". She vaguely agrees that she may have her own personal problems, but that she says is limited to "growing up and anger management". So far so good...but where I live, I find it difficult to get a therapist who can administer DBT to her. Even the knowledge of BPD is very limited.

I have tried numerous times online before, but I am unable to get help here on finding a good therapist based in Mumbai, India.

So I have been trying to study DBT myself and trying to teach her some techniques. This has helped her a lot to see her own shortcomings. But in the long run, I find this difficult as I am becoming the only scantuary for her. This is not correct as I need to be the husband in this r/s and neither the therapist nor her father.

We are studing a spiritual program together onthe TV, that has brought about a lot of changes in her. I supplement that with a small post TV work shop with her, where I make her write down what she thought of the discourse and then we practise meditation as taught on TV. I have put her in the habit of reading the diary every morning so that she is filled with positive thoughts for the day.

During her last crazy episode...this helped her calm down to a good extent.

 But I am tired of playing her therapist and more than being tired im scared of doing something that I am not trained to do. Plus this is taking a huge toll on my personal development and growth as well as affecting the time that I can devote for my profession. There is no ME time for me in this r/s and I have no emotional source of support for myself.

Any books/ or online help where I can address this?

Thanks
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Steph
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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2011, 09:16:17 AM »

After a fantastic behaviour for the past four months..my dBPDw lost it the last couple of days.
She is back to her clear thinking now and has agreed to visit a counseller who is an expert in DBT. ( i did not mention that she has BPD)...just that she needs to see someone with DBT.

I have given her a time till this weekend to hunt out someone. But I was wondering even if she doest take DBT lessons...how effective is it?

Does thier inner core change? do they see reason and get maturity in thoughts or do they just change or mellow thier behaviour?
How long does it take for the change? Do they go into regression at any time?
Is it worth for me to hang around hoping that she gets better with BPD...or should I quit irrespective of her results? I clearly cannot stay if she continues her craziness.

  My H completely recovered with DBT. Its been close to 3 years now and NO symptoms.

  It actually rewires the path to the part of the brain where emotions are processed. Eventually, this becomes automatic and it no longer is an effort, it just is.

It takes ALOT of time and a huge investment on the persons part. My H was in dbt for 3 years..there is one year where they learn the basic skills, then anothe year where they learn the same stuff all over again. His 3rd year was 'advanced' dbt. There were many, many pitfalls along the way, including suicide attempts and a separation.

Now, for OUR marriage to work, I needed therapy. I needed to work on my stuff. We ALL need this, you included..because we need to learn to unlearn our own unhealthy ways of codependancy, control issues, and other mental health issues we have. We also needed MC, when he was better, to work on our marriage.

 Do I regret it? No...we were quite close to divorce, tho, when I came here and saw my part in keeping the crazy stuff going. We all have that part, and that is the part that needs addressing and help. Once I got that down, I was able to stop my own dysfunctional behaviors, which fed into his.

It isnt easy and it is NOT quick. For us, it was very worth it..I also want to mention that he did not have other mental health issues nor did he have chemical health issues, which further complicates the picture.

Steph
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an0ught
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2011, 01:30:42 PM »

But I am tired of playing her therapist and more than being tired im scared of doing something that I am not trained to do. Plus this is taking a huge toll on my personal development and growth as well as affecting the time that I can devote for my profession. There is no ME time for me in this r/s and I have no emotional source of support for myself.

Any books/ or online help where I can address this?

Hi Hotapollo,

Steph got very important points here.

You are pursuing this path of playing her T since a while and while there were some gains it burns you out and ultimately it does not get you where you need to be. You realized it now and want  to modify your approach  Doing the right thing . There are limitations on what we can do as a partner and where we need to be out of the loop. Where we are part of the problem. Being her T may support her in many areas, you may navigate the minefields of enabling her but in the end it won't change the enmeshed nature of the relationship. In fact there are good chances that aspect gets worse as you focus on her and she focuses on you.

Boundaries are probably the critical component and outside help here could be very valuable. Boundaries are initially uncomfortable and scary but without them it will be hard for her to develop a good sense of herself. Getting there may mean watching some failures and dealing with abandonment on possibly both sides. Setting a boundary for you would require you e.g. to set apart some "Me" time - and accepting the outcome that she is upset, feels lonely and probably escalates the first couple times. Not easy to do and backup for you is very helpful here. It would be important for her even more to have someone professional to fall back on to validate her abandonment.

A book on DBT written from the "couple" perspective is "The high conflict couple" - if you like well written but a bit dry text (see book section of the board for a review). But again - where you are the most important next step is getting everyone focused on their own healing - so doing things separately and in different ways would be good e.g. getting her to find a book for herself.
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shatra
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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2011, 08:02:02 PM »

Hi
 Steph wrote
there is one year where they learn the basic skills, then anothe year where they learn the same stuff all over again. His 3rd year was 'advanced' dbt.
-----I never heard of advanced DBT...can you describe it----is there written material on it?
Thanks
SHatra
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hotapollo
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« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2011, 05:29:19 AM »

Thanks for your views.
Steph, Im happy to know that you are success story in here and would certainly seek your advice.
IS there any Book or online program of self-DBT?
My wife is very motivated right now to change and learn and I do not want to let is pass off to another incident of madness and then wish I had taken some steps to help her.

An0ught.
Thanks for placing my position in perspective.
We actually had a discussion where I mentioned to her that we both need to work on ourselves on differnt paths, indvitual to each other.
She has actually enrolled herself for a mind and a thought awarness program for the next weekend. Which is very good! But she is very excited right now and I dont want her to waster her time on some personality development program where she may think she is better but may not actually address her core problem.
She has agreed to let me spend a day apart with my freinds and she with her freinds/ work etc. where we do not need to be with each other.
We have a deep enmeshment issue, which has actually been working in my favor and has actually kept her in this r/s and has avoided her acting out like earlier for fear of loosing me. But I need to loosen up that now so that she is independent in her thinking and actions.

I will look up the book that you have proposed and purchase it online. Maybe it would be a good idea for me to look it up before "accidently" handing it to her.

In the meanwhile I have got my wife to realise that she HAS a problem and she WANTS to work on it for the sake of this r/s. But Im now not sure how to proceed. I Stay in a place where access to good therapists who are qaulified in DBT and BPD patients. In this scenario what can I do?
Will the book suggested by you help her?

Is it possible for someone to read a book on self- DBT and has it helped?
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Auspicious
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« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2011, 09:53:05 AM »

If she's that willing to work on herself, resources like BPDRecovery.com may be helpful to her.

Regarding DBT ... I know it sounds "extreme", but can she travel somewhere to get it? Stay with family soemwhere? Anything?  BPD is a serious illness; think of this like finding a cancer center or something.
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hotapollo
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« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2011, 02:41:02 AM »

I think BPDrecovery is a good site. But then Im stopping myself short of calling her a "BPD"!

I agree that BPD is a serious illness and I want to make sure she is in safe hands. There are quite a few therapists where I live, but Im not sure if anyone practices in BPD.
I guess ill have to individually talk to each one and see if they can administer it.
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