SELF-AWARE: why do we put up with it?

[united for now]

I did an experiment with my Psych students a few years ago.

I had a volunteer sit in front of the class and recite the alphabet. When he got to the letter "G" I sprayed some water in his face. This startled him and got the class laughing. I asked him to repeat the alphabet again, and again, when he got to the letter "G" I sprayed water in his face. He was a quick learner, cause when I asked him a third time to recite the alphabet and when he was about to say the letter "G" he cringed in expectation of the water  

The interesting fact though, is that he still said the letter "G"...


Now this student figured out after the first 2 times that there was a connection between him saying the letter "G" and me spraying him with water. Why did he still say the letter? A mix of reasons...Cause I was his teacher and as such, an authority figure. He also wanted to please me for a better grade, and he enjoyed being the center of attention for the class. He was an overall good sport about it.

If we know that someone is going to do something we don't like (like spray water in our face) why do we take that step?

Why do we put ourselves in those positions?

We can say we do it for love, yet isn't some of it fear based?

Are we afraid of "not" saying the letter "G"?

Are we afraid of saying that we don't like water being sprayed in our faces?

Who's fault is it if we get wet? theirs for spraying us with water... or ours for sitting there and allowing them to...?

[pdoll]

I think it's because when the bpd controls the water bottle, he/she makes the reinforcement intermittent. Sometimes we get sprayed when we say G, sometimes we don't.

BF Skinner discovered it - "The interesting thing that Skinner discovered about intermittant reinforcement and maybe one of Skinner's most important discoveries was that behavior that is reinforced intermittantly is much more difficult to extinguish than behavior that is reinforced continuously."

[StrongEnough]

I guess your point is that we bear some responsibility for receiving the abuse because we remain present when we see it happening again and again. Not sure I agree with that-  there are multiple factors that keep us present- like your student we do a cost/benefit analysis. He has his reasons for not getting up and dropping the class, we have our reasons for putting up with a BP even when we see a pattern.  You (as instructor) are still completely responsible for whether you continue to spray him with water on "G," they are still 100% responsible for their behavior. Our responsibility is to ourselves... when the cost of staying outweighs the benefit... we should leave.

[joop]

I guess your point is that we bear some responsibility for receiving the abuse because we remain present when we see it happening again and again. Not sure I agree with that-  there are multiple factors that keep us present- like your student we do a cost/benefit analysis. He has his reasons for not getting up and dropping the class, we have our reasons for putting up with a BP even when we see a pattern.  You (as instructor) are still completely responsible for whether you continue to spray him with water on "G," they are still 100% responsible for their behavior. Our responsibility is to ourselves... when the cost of staying outweighs the benefit... we should leave.

we are starved of affection the longer the r/s goes on and focus on you, so even in the hate you stages or the rages we are at least the centre of attention ourselves...believe it or not even during the arguements you are getting validation of yourself. The bad thing is that the words in those times are all negative but the focus is on you and your partner.

So as the thread goes...you are getting sprayed with something negative that you do not like, but you take it and stay because you are the centre of attention and in a twisted way the borderline for maybe a while is totally focused on you...you are not being ignored, you are not been given the silent treatment you are getting validation for existing.

Even bad focus on you is better than no focus on you..right.

[ReclaimedLife]

porcelaindoll118, I appreciate your analogy of this. I have most definately questioned myself for the 1/3 of my life that I wasted. But I also appreciate that I learned about small mercies and brainwashing that BPD's are so capable of. This triggered me to remember how my ex would bring me home little "gifts" she found at a garage sale, or always make sure that midnight snacks were on the nightstand, or bring me a glass of tea while I mowed the yard, or especially how she once while we were boating and listening to the song "Your Still The One"..(after all these years), she said; "That's us Babe, you and me, you are still my Man after all these years." (17 years in.)

BUT, I do realize these are small mercies to the big picture, and most were followed immediately or within hours with some form of emotional abuse, however subtle. It's to keep us off balance. And THEY KNOW that we are good people at heart, and most who married are absolute to their commitment of "for better or worse".

I also remember, while she was in the midst of an affair one October, (unbeknownst to me at the time) she asked me if I had any thoughts on what I wanted for Christmas. I now refer to that memory as "Christmas in October", I often wish I would have responded with, "If you would just be faithful, or learn to face your demons would be a present that would last me a lifetime!" -But I know now that even though I was the glue that held the broken marriage together, NOTHING I said or did would have made a difference from this outcome. I tried to leave before, on more than one ocassion, but she was expert at manipulation and recycling, so all in all everything has it's time and place, a season for everthing, besides "Christmas in October!)

[EdieM]

I was extremely vulnerable when I met my ex, and he made me moreso during the relationship.

When I look back now at the lengths I went to toward the end of the relationship to make him happy and support him, I almost can't believe how much I was taken in by him. He did it gradually though, wore me down until I actually believed I was the cause of all his behaviours and deserved this treatment.

It was actually his psychiatrist and his mother who made me see that he was being outrageously unreasonable and that I should leave him.

[C2]

I think about this one a lot, as I have had more than on BPD romantic relationship and come from a family with a PD parent.

While there are many unhealthy reasons we put up with their behavior (what we grew up with, like the drama, low self-esteem, etc.), sometimes, especially with the more high functioning BPs, they are just a good match for us in every other way except the disorder. We may like the same hobbies, have similar biorhythms, parent the same way, laugh at the same jokes...

Not everyone was in a relationship with a lot of major ups and downs, always waiting for the good BP to come back. I had a pretty decent relationship with my long-term BP for a number of years--very minor red flag behaviors, no arguments, mostly mutual satisfaction, etc. It wasn't until the intimacy button got pushed (actually his idea, suggesting we live together) that all his weirdness came out. His "quirks" (in retrospect early red flags) were so minor that they were really very easy to tolerate.

Granted I didn't know anything about PDs at the time, and now I have a lower tolerance for quirks. I'm still a fairly tolerant person, though, and I usually try to look for a benevolent reason for someone's actions. It seems like a lot of us here are healer types or more compassionate, empathic, easy going people than the general public. In the context of a disordered relationship, that turns into enabling. Unfortunate, because we should be able to be kind without it biting us in the butt.

Trying to be nice without being a doormat is a hard tightrope to walk.

[liveandlearn]

What if we love the guy holding the water bottle, and the only way to keep him alive is to allow him to spray us from time to time? 

But what if he started spraying so much that he was nearly drowning us?  Would we save ourselves or continue to be sprayed even if it meant he wouldn't survive?  After all, if we die, the sprayer dies, too.  What's the sense in both of us dying?

What if we had an umbrella so that the water wouldn't soak us?  If only we knew when to carry it.  If we used the umbrella, would he get bored and stop playing the game?  Does he need to soak us to thrive?  Would we ever get tired of carrying the umbrella on sunny days? 

Gee...

[gWocky00]

the water I could handle, its when the baseball bat came out I had a problem,,lol

[C12P21]

Not everyone was in a relationship with a lot of major ups and downs, always waiting for the good BP to come back. I had a pretty decent relationship with my long-term BP for a number of years--very minor red flag behaviors, no arguments, mostly mutual satisfaction, etc. It wasn't until the intimacy button got pushed (actually his idea, suggesting we live together) that all his weirdness came out. His "quirks" (in retrospect early red flags) were so minor that they were really very easy to tolerate

.
This was true in the last relationship I was in-the devaluation began as his need for intimacy increased and he became leery of his need. The push/pull that was subtle became evidently more aggressive and the emotional abuse was difficult to experience.
In retrospect, my hesitancy to confront was due to earlier childhood conditioning. I doubted my perceptions as I thought my reactions were more from FOO than the present relational dynamic. Boy, was not listening to my gut a mistake. I suffered emotional pain from putting up with someone abusing me and I did not defend myself.  I believed I let myself down. Remaining silent when I needed to protect myself emotionally from him was the worst of the pain, it wasn't his affair or ending the relationship. My emotional pain was how I stood there and let someone spew destructive words at me and I said once "stop this, your being mean". My problem was the overlying need to preserve the relationship and I was trying to not respond in anger. In hindsight, anger would have been an appropriate response.
In the long run when he wanted to remain friends, I simply could not. My putting up days were over. Without processing of the abuse and things that were said, there could be no friendship. The hardest part of detaching was acceptance knowing the person I thought I knew was an illusion. The dream took a long time to die..

[Robhart]

I think in the non world most people are capable of change and we think our spouses,SO, etc will also have the desire to change.
I thought initially my exgfbpd's  abusive behaviors were because of her drinking.I further thought if the light bulb went on with her she would stop drinking and we'd live happily ever after..
Later in the r/s  I was checking out abusive behaviors on line I found out about bpd.
It was sadly painfully obvious now. This time I could see even more of the red flags of her lying and cheating.
Sadly, I had to ultimately accept she doesn't want to change and is  probably is incapable of change.