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Think About It... Whenever we refuse to take responsibility for ourselves, we are unconsciously choosing to react as victim. This inevitably creates feelings of anger, fear, guilt or inadequacy and leaves us feeling betrayed, or taken advantage of by others.~ Lynne Forrest
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Author Topic: Can BPD's/NPD's be dangerous?  (Read 5013 times)
LightAtTheEndOfTheTunnel
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« on: July 14, 2011, 05:11:24 PM »

I was reading today about famous people with personality disorders   lol at work...

I stumbled upon an article regarding Ted Bundy and OJ Simpson. It outlined these men possesed the feature of never owning personal responsibility, blame shifting, no empathy, pathological lying etc etc

Bundy in particularly came across as a charming man, had friends, was intelligent etc the same way our BPD's did.

The same traits our BPD's/NPD's share, reading more and realising that personality disorders are linked to psychopathy.. this got me thinking.

We have seen our partners rage, seen them possibly become psychically violent with us and act very out of character.

The first time i saw a "rage" from my ex BPD we were staying in a hotel, i was expressing my frustration regarding lack of intimacy in our relationship and his scream really threw me off. While everyone has a right to feel frustrated and express that.. this was something different.. we were in bed at the time and he just screamed with his fists shaking, shouting at me, he then turned over and went to sleep.

I was shocked...this wasn't the man i and everyone else was used to seeing.. it was something different.

While reading up about Bundy on Wikipedia, they showed a picture of him "loosing it" in the courtroom saying how he exhibited how he could switch from cool and calm to out of control.

In England years back there was a story where a man was killed alledgedly by a hit and run driver, his girlfriend did a tearful press conference and alongside his family they pleaded for anyone with information to come forward.

Fast forward a few months and she was the lead suspect and was charged for his murder. She gave herself away in the press conference as she decribed "what happened" an officer noted on the videotaped press conference that she switched, from cool calm and collected to manic. The standstill of footage was truly chilling - the classic eyes etc...

So my question is... our BPD's... are they dangerous?.. Did they have the potential to be dangerous?

Sorry its a bit of a "dark" one

 
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harlemgurl
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« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2011, 05:54:58 PM »

I can't speak for all people who live with BPD but my uBPDexbf surely fit the bill.

In the ten months that my ex and I were together he raged at me twice. The first time he physically assaulted me and lit a lighter to my hair. Terrifying. The second time he hurled the most abusive, demeaning, denigrating insults ever spoken to me in my 36 years of living. The rages were always zero to 360 and felt like walking the red carpet to HELL.

The narcissism was always there bubbling beneath the surface with a couple of guest appearances but it began to rear its ugly head full throttle in the last days. In the end Mr. Nice Guy was GONE and Mr. Entitled took over: pitchfork in hand. grin grin

I currently have a RO in place and my ex is facing Felony and misdemeanor charges for the physical assault. The physical charges are the only ones that can be proven in court, but the emotional damage is what I really wish he could pay for in a court of law. But being that he has to live with BPD everyday I guess that'll be his "revolving door" karmic retribution until he gets help...if he ever does.

So to answer your question. Hell Yeah. They can be physically abusive. I thought mine would KILL ME or at minimum MAIM me for sure. He saw me looking at the front door and I'm sure in his heart that if he couldn't have me then no one else would. Hello? OJ!  ;p

I'm sure our prisons are filled with the emotionally dysregulated and disordered.

HG
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C12P21
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« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2011, 05:59:25 PM »

Yes, they can. Not all are-but they can be.
The best thing to do is to stay away.
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C12P21 "and she lived happily ever after.."
C12P21
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« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2011, 06:08:25 PM »

The other is this-if you read the article "Romeos Bleeding" you might take into account another kind of dangerous person. This person may not kill another-but will cause emotional pain and devastation to their victims.
In my mind-this is another category that falls into dangerous.
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C12P21 "and she lived happily ever after.."
GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?
This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving
All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)
cyndiloowho
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« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2011, 08:46:22 PM »

My T suggested I read the book "People of the Lie - The Hope for Healing Human Evil" by M. Scott Peck.

I must admit, there have been times over the last 29 years that things my H did or said sent a chill thru me, caused my hairs to stand on end, caused me to feel a cold fear I didnt understand... Here are some quotes from this book that I highlighted:

"...the time is right, I believe, for psychiatry to recognize a distinct new type of personality disorder to encompass those I have named evil...this [classification] would specifically be distinguished by:
a) consistent destructive, scapegoating behavior, which may often be quite subtle. b) excessive, albeit usually covert, intolerance to criticism and other forms of narcissistic injury. c) pronounced concern with a public image and self image of respectability, contributing to a stability of life-style but also pretentiousness and denial of hateful feelings and vengeful motives. d) intellectual deviousness, with an increased likelihood of a mild schizophreniclike disturbance of thinking at times of stress."

"There are an enormous number of people in this world with serious and identifiable psychiatric problems who, in a psychiatrists eyes, are quite desperately in need of treatment but who fail to recognize this need. So they dont get treatment, even when it is offered on a silver platter. Not all such people are evil. In fact, the vast majority are not. But it is into this category of persons most intensely resistant to psychiatric treatment that the thoroughly evil fall."

"The central defect of the evil is not the sin but the refusal to acknowledge it."

"While usually subtle, their destructiveness is remarkably consistent."

"The evil do not serenely bear the trial of being displeasing to themselves. In fact, they dont bear it at all. And it is out of their failure to put themselves on trial that their evil arises."

"A predominant characteristic, however, of the behavior of those I call evil is scapegoating. Because in their hearts they consider themselves above reproach, they must lash out at anyone who does reproach them."

"Scapegoating works through a mechanism psychiatrists call projection. Since the evil, deep dowm, feel themselves to be faultless, it is inevitable that when they are in conflict with the world they will invariably perceive the conflict as the world's fault. Since they must deny their own badness, they must perceive others as bad."

"While they seem to lack any motivation to BE good, they intensely desire to appear good. Their 'goodness' is all on a level of pretense. It is, in effect, a lie. This is why they are the "people of the lie."

"We become evil by attempting to hide from ourselves. Evil originates not in the absence of guilt but in the effort to escape it."

"...to a greater or lesser degree, all mentally healthy individuals submit themselves to the demands of their own conscience. Not so the evil, however. In the conflict between their guilt and their will, it is the guilt that must go and the will that must win."

"...one of the characteristics of evil is its desire to confuse."

"All of us tend to be more or less self-centered in our dealings with others. We usually view any given situation first and foremost from the staNPDoint of how it affects us personally...nonetheless, particularly if we care for the other person, we usually can and eventually do think about his or her viewpoint, which may well be different from ours. Not so those who are evil. Theirs is a brand of narcissism so total that they seem to lack, in whole or part, this capacity for empathy...narcissism makes the evil dangerous not only because it motivates them to scapegoat others but also because it deprives them of the restraint that results from empathy and respect for others. In addition to the fact that the evil need victims to sacrifice to their narcissism, their narcissism permits them to ignore the humanity of their victims as well. The blindness of the narcissist to others can extend even beyond a lack of empathy; narcissists may not "see" others at all."

I know that EVIL is a harsh word. But, for me, this book shouted TRUTH! It is what it is...no longer can I hide from or deny the severity or the danger with my H. I have actually told my H that "I dont feel that he even recognizes me as a human being with feelings and thoughts of my own."  He seemed shocked when I said that but made no argument against it. God knows Ive been the ultimate scapegoat. If there is a medal for it, I WIN! And, of course, the most frightening thing to me is the complete LACK of empathy and remorse. Chilling. Especially when it comes to things he has done to his own children!

Im glad you brought this up, Light. I wanted to share this topic after I read the book, but was afraid it might be too much for some to take in. But now its out there...
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WonderingWhat
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« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2011, 09:21:04 PM »

I am seeing a lot of people on these boards asking questions about certain behaviors or in this case, "potential" and almost seem to want to classify it in some way as "BPD." For example, I recently saw a poster asking about a particular sexual position and musing it was typical BPD behavior.

Anyone can be dangerous. t depends on the circumstances and motivating factors.  As someone who spent over a decade in Law Enforcement, I can assure you that being "dangerous" is not something that is "BPD" as well, not all BPD's are dangerous.

I've seen the most passive person's lash out because of extreme motivators - and that can happen to anyone.

Let's also remember that BPD's probably have some legitimate gripes about "nons" that they are in a relationship with just as in any "normal" relationship, there will be legitimate gripes. My exGF had legitimate gripes about some of my behavior that bothered her. Perhaps the difference is that I recognized it as a legitimate gripe (and in some cases, I'll admit grudgingly so) and made efforts to change that behavior.  I spent most of ten years as a single guy running my own business - it didn't matter what time I went to bed and often used that late night quiet time to work. Years of shift work interfered with my circadian rhythms as well.

But to my non-shift working experienced GF, going to bed at 3AM was a legitimate gripe for her. However, her interpretation of it was incorrect quite often, with accusations of "on-line chatting" etc (which I just don't do).

I also have to give her credit too - she was, when she was in her "white mode" understanding of my sleep issues and did take the time to realize that I wasn't a freak or something; that this was an issue with former and present shift workers.

 I did work on this - perhaps it is something I could have worked harder on, which might have at least reduced one behavior that she could key in on when she was in her black thinking.
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cyndiloowho
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« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2011, 10:45:32 PM »

Anyone can be dangerous. t depends on the circumstances and motivating factors.  As someone who spent over a decade in Law Enforcement, I can assure you that being "dangerous" is not something that is "BPD" as well, not all BPD's are dangerous.

I've seen the most passive person's lash out because of extreme motivators - and that can happen to anyone.
 

I take this to be a person of 'normal' emotional regulation who snaps under an extreme circumstance. With my H, his behavior has been consistently destructive and dysfunctional throughout his entire life (he is 60). I would not classify my H as passive, although most 'outsiders' likely would. He portrays that part of himself very well to the general public, but those of us who know him intimately know this is a facade, a lie. My H can be very cold and cruel. I dont think what you're describing here is anywhere near what my experience has been like in my r/s.

Let's also remember that BPD's probably have some legitimate gripes about "nons" that they are in a relationship with just as in any "normal" relationship, there will be legitimate gripes.

It is my belief that a "normal" relationship involves negotiation, understanding of one another's points of view, compassion for each other's vulnerabilities, and compromise with regards to mutual wants, needs, and desires. What is required, in that scenario, and what is lacking in my r/s, is empathy and respect. My H has never recognized my wants, needs, or desires. He doesnt even 'see' me as a person who has feelings. When I speak of what I want or need, to him its as if Im speaking in tongues. He goes blank, cannot comprehend.

Perhaps, in your r/s, you are one of the lucky ones if your wife has a milder disorder. In that case, "evil" may seem quite a stretch. But in my r/s, I am having to deal with the effects of long term trauma from exactly the behaviors described in my earlier post. And from the many anguished posts I have read, I think "evil" is not such a huge stretch to them either.
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waiflovehurts


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« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2011, 11:22:02 PM »

My exBPD waif tried to strangle her ex before me and had a restraining order never to go near her again.  With me she was very waif - victim and I can't imagine her being violent - she also takes an antipsychotic -  but I always wonder if a violent streak is still in her somewhere...
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WonderingWhat
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« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2011, 11:34:45 PM »

cyndiloowho,

I hear what you are saying. In thinking about it, I guess "dangerous" can be taken subjectively - and I was thinking "dangerous" as in serious physical maiming or killing. I am not sure if my xGF would ever have tried to kill me or seriously hurt me physically - and I don't believe her intent was to inflict emotional abuse - although she did.

And having said that, she did hit me on three different occasions. One time, she split my bottom lip.

At the same time, I've seen some other generalizations here on the boards that could probably be behaviors many might engage in. We all have our quirks - it's part of what makes us, us.
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Overcomingbpd
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« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2011, 11:46:21 PM »

I can not say all BPs are but mine was. His T. told me he was dangerous. Turns out his T. was right.
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