SD13 wants a custody change - thoughts?

[Think About It...]

Even though you have a CASA background, I don't think most parents are able to manage situations in which a young person is struggling with self-harm.  It may be best to work out some plans for that - what you both will do if she threatens suicide, or if she acts out in different ways - and let her know that you want to help her and this is part of helping her.

I think this is next on the plate.  What I meant about the CASA reference is that there, I have the power to recommend that a mother seek counseling and prove that she has changed her ways before the child returns to her custody.  If I see that a child is harming herself when she believes that she has hurt one of her parents, the judge, at my recommendation, can compel that both parents take the necessary steps to learn healthier parenting skills and boundaries.  I don't have any of that power in our home.  Moreover, I know that well-to-do families who never have an issue with keeping food on the table and keeping bruises off their children seldom have the benefit of legal intervention even if the kids bear tremendous emotional scars, so these kids will likely never have anyone step in for them, legally, who can help determine what is wrong and how it needs to be fixed for the kids to grow up more emotionally healthy than has happened thus far.

[KHat]

Even though you have a CASA background, I don't think most parents are able to manage situations in which a young person is struggling with self-harm.  It may be best to work out some plans for that - what you both will do if she threatens suicide, or if she acts out in different ways - and let her know that you want to help her and this is part of helping her.

I think this is next on the plate.  What I meant about the CASA reference is that there, I have the power to recommend that a mother seek counseling and prove that she has changed her ways before the child returns to her custody.  If I see that a child is harming herself when she believes that she has hurt one of her parents, the judge, at my recommendation, can compel that both parents take the necessary steps to learn healthier parenting skills and boundaries.  I don't have any of that power in our home.  Moreover, I know that well-to-do families who never have an issue with keeping food on the table and keeping bruises off their children seldom have the benefit of legal intervention even if the kids bear tremendous emotional scars, so these kids will likely never have anyone step in for them, legally, who can help determine what is wrong and how it needs to be fixed for the kids to grow up more emotionally healthy than has happened thus far.

[DreamGirl]

****cross posted

I don't know ... to me, the difference is clear as to whether you call police because you need help dealing with a situation beyond your control, as opposed to calling police to punish someone else.  But it's probably not clear to her.

I'm with Matt in that I don't see calling the police necessarily as a "punishment".  It's to keep her safe. Is that her fear? The police? Did it happen before?

I've seen similar boundaries set by others with the pwBPD when it comes to any self harm, including suicide threats. "If you threaten suicide, I will call 911." type of boundary.  Especially when the self harm is used as a type of emotional blackmail. (Which I thought she admitted to her therapist?)

DG, I get where you're coming from, I really do.  But in our home, I've taken a VERY hands-off approach, knowing that a) they come here for him and they should get a lot of access to him, and b) it's easier to gradually draw closer than to insist on closeness and then later pull apart.  I don't see his comment about her opening up to me as anything more significant than if a mutual friend said to me, "god, I wish my sister would talk to you; you seem to get this and know what to say better than I do."  Maybe we arrange a meeting and click; maybe we don't.  But I don't at all get the sense that he's uncomfortable in dealing with his daughter and wants to hand it off, or that he thinks I'll be a good replacement mom.  I think that he sees us as a team and wants his children to see us that way too, not pull him away from me and whisper something they're uncertain about how to share in front of me.  And honestly, I've kind of created that scenario, since I will often leave the room out of respect for their privacy if a child indicates that she needs her dad.

I think you do a fantastic job, Khat.

I just suppose I wonder when "hope"... becomes an expectation. I'm even guilty of it when it comes to my own kiddos - wishing that my husband have more involvement in them becoming more like him (extremely responsible) then their own father (irresponsible).  It's unrealistic and unfair, but I certainly feel it sometimes.

Again, I sometimes wonder lately if I've become too cynical. It's like when I watch Teen Mom on television and see the naive thoughts of a pregnant 17 year old thinking she can be a mom, go to school, be married and live happily ever after.  I was that 17 year old once and reality slapped me square in the face. Hard. And oh, all that I would have done differently.  I know that we are much wiser then a pregnant teenager, but I often have similar type feelings as I look at new(er) stepmoms trying to forge their way thru.

 

The bizarre thing to me is that as a CASA, I have the legal authority to step in and help a child whose parent is incapable, but I have none of that own authority in my own home with the children I see and get to know best.  That, to me, is something I often have to wrap my head around.

I volunteer for CASA as well... and a lesson I learned pretty early on is that capability is a sliding scale.  We also loose all objectivity when we are sleeping with one of the parents involved.

Oh, and a PS - BF's divorce finally became final this week.  Nearly 32 months in the making from the moment he asked for it until the moment the judge signed off, and full of concessions and expense, but undoubtedly, to him, all worth it.

Congratulations!  Wedding bells in the near future?

~DG

[Matt]

Even though you have a CASA background, I don't think most parents are able to manage situations in which a young person is struggling with self-harm.  It may be best to work out some plans for that - what you both will do if she threatens suicide, or if she acts out in different ways - and let her know that you want to help her and this is part of helping her.

I think this is next on the plate.  What I meant about the CASA reference is that there, I have the power to recommend that a mother seek counseling and prove that she has changed her ways before the child returns to her custody.  If I see that a child is harming herself when she believes that she has hurt one of her parents, the judge, at my recommendation, can compel that both parents take the necessary steps to learn healthier parenting skills and boundaries.  I don't have any of that power in our home.  Moreover, I know that well-to-do families who never have an issue with keeping food on the table and keeping bruises off their children seldom have the benefit of legal intervention even if the kids bear tremendous emotional scars, so these kids will likely never have anyone step in for them, legally, who can help determine what is wrong and how it needs to be fixed for the kids to grow up more emotionally healthy than has happened thus far.

Yeah, you lack the power at home that you have in the CASA situation, and you also lack the objectivity and perspective.

I look back on some situations with my adult son - when he was drinking and using - and I see that I didn't deal with them the way I wish I had - the way I would suggest someone else in a similar situation to deal with it.  Like watching a football game from the stands and seeing things very clearly - but it's much more difficult if you're down there in the middle of the action.

I've seen that here - how much easier it is to see somebody else's situation clearly than my own - and also in "family group" at my son's rehab - situations very much like ours and it was much easier to see patterns - what was working and what wasn't - when looking at someone else's experiences than at my own.

That's why I'm suggesting something like a "protocol" - an agreement among you and your husband as to how various situations will be handled.  "If she says she wants to go back to her mom's we'll do X.  If she threatens to hurt herself we'll do Y.  Etc."  Thinking through these possibilities together will make it easier to follow through when they happen.

Which is an additional reason why your stepdaughter may be better off with you guys than with her mom:  You and her father can provide support to each other and twice as much stability and judgment in the home.  From your description it's pretty hard to imagine her mom thinking these things through - learning about the stuff you know from you CASA experience for example - and having solid, well-thought-out plans for when things get difficult...

[cross-posting with DG]

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[Matt]

I just suppose I wonder when "hope"... becomes an expectation. I'm even guilty of it when it comes to my own kiddos - wishing that my husband have more involvement in them becoming more like him (extremely responsible) then their own father (irresponsible).  It's unrealistic and unfair, but I certainly feel it sometimes.

I think this is really important, and it gets into the stepparent thing...

What I mean is, you are an adult in the home with another adult, and sometimes SD.  It's in everyone's interest for that home to function well, and SD is especially in need of a stable home right now.  So rather than expecting her father to be a different person than he is, I think it's important to note what he does, and accept that, and look for ways to fill in the gaps the best you can - without being held back by the fact that you're not SD's bioparent, or even whether or not you are married to her dad (though I do think those are both complicating factors).

She is a child, and at risk, and from what you've written her father is a good man, but isn't stepping up in all the ways you think he should.  (And from what you've written, I'm sure you are right to wish he would step up.)

You can either step up yourself, and fill in those gaps - discussing it openly with her father so you're in synch - or she probably won't get what she needs right now.  Your approach til now has been understandably passive - "It's not my place" - and there are several good reasons for that.  But it's probably not working and probably not going to work.  It may be the time to discuss with him whether you both think it will be better if you do more for her.

[DreamGirl]

You can either step up yourself, and fill in those gaps - discussing it openly with her father so you're in synch - or she probably won't get what she needs right now.  Your approach til now has been understandably passive - "It's not my place" - and there are several good reasons for that.  But it's probably not working and probably not going to work.  It may be the time to discuss with him whether you both think it will be better if you do more for her.

Egats.

This goes against the mission of the what most Experts have been professing in the books I've read and the Workshops I attend in that Stepmoms should be doing... less.

I've more recently thought myself like a school teacher or a soccer coach to my stepkids. Knowing that they have it rough at home but it's not worthy of CPS intervention and it's hardly "my place" where I can vocally intervene with the two parents that are actively involved. (Matt, your stepparenting gig was a little different in that both fathers were hardly present) But I can bond with my stepdaughters, have a good time, help build outlets and in turn resiliency, validate feelings and perceptions, etc... I feel like that's what I can do.  Otherwise I'm not helping. I'm interfering.   

~DG

[marlo6277]

Speaking as someone who actually has stepped up and attempted to fill in those gaps. It's not a good scene.  Especially when one of the parents is the same sex as you AND BPD.  This is like lighting your own self on fire.

And speaking to my own DH who is just not ready to see the errors that he makes, nor is he willing to put forth the effort to change them (because he doesn't see how his own methods might actually be counter-productive), then you are just setting yourself up for a whole lotta heart ache and head banging against a wall and animosity from the spouse who feels his methods work just fine.

As you said - like a football game.  You can't be in the stands seeing everything that happens with much more clarity and then march over to the coach and tell him what he's doing wrong in his game with his players on his field.  You're just going to get thrown out of the stadium.  If not by him, then by his loyal players as well.  We can sit and watch the game, see the problems, but we can only discuss them amongst ourselves.  To discuss them with the person who has set the play is just not in the best interests of everyone. Especially when the person and the players actually believe in the play. 

[KHat]

hahahaha ... I've got three very wise, very experienced, very compassionate people who can't agree on what I should do ... I don't feel so bad for being confused myself.

I have to say, I feel so LOST when it comes to dealing with these girls.  Yes, I was one once, and like DreamGirl says about Teen Mom, I can still somewhat remember the mentality.  I sought the emotional and physical release that writing gave me, not cutting, but the bottled up pain and self-blame might have been the same.  All either of us can really do is guess at what SD13 is going through, because she's got that teenage answer, "I dunno" to so many questions. 

Honestly, I've had to stop watching shows like Intervention because so many of them look back on the addict's childhood and say, "I turned to alcohol when my father remarried" or "No one made an effort and I started smoking pot" ... and I have a tendency to take each of these unique incidences and turn them into a grand life lesson with pending disaster at the other end ... "I can't marry him, I'll screw them up!  I have to make a bigger effort or I'll force her into drugs!" 

None of us knows, without a doubt, what the path to a successful future holds and doesn't hold.  So far, my best guide has been the board with the adult children of a pwBPD and seeing what they say has helped ... someone in their corner.  Someone who gently let them know that Mom's way wasn't right, and showed them a different way but didn't put anyone down, strain those loyalty binds, or make things worse.  Forcing it isn't going to help, IMO.  If I ask SD13 if she wants to ride along with me somewhere, or go get a pedicure, and she says no, I'm not going to hold her captive and lecture her.  I only met her just over a year ago and I'm content to let things take their natural course.  And, quite frankly, my BF is learning his new dynamics too.  His ex used to demean and criticize his parenting until he was pushed out from doing any of this stuff he's doing now.  I want to encourage and nourish that bond, even as I give him my opinions and observations.  I'm not sure any man has read as many parenting books in the last year as he has, LOL! 

Anyway, I'm off to deal with my own baggage with my therapist now.  But you all can keep arguing amongst yourselves while I'm gone.  ;-)

[Matt]

You can either step up yourself, and fill in those gaps - discussing it openly with her father so you're in synch - or she probably won't get what she needs right now.  Your approach til now has been understandably passive - "It's not my place" - and there are several good reasons for that.  But it's probably not working and probably not going to work.  It may be the time to discuss with him whether you both think it will be better if you do more for her.

Egats.

This goes against the mission of the what most Experts have been professing in the books I've read and the Workshops I attend in that Stepmoms should be doing... less.

Yeah, I realize that, and I think you're also right that my situation is different in some ways from KHat's.

I think all situations are unique, and we need to understand what the child needs, and accept what the other adults involved are able to provide, and then to consider whether we are able and willing to fill in those gaps.

When the other adults involved have some serious shortcomings - Mom presumably has BPD or something similar, and Dad has his own issues that keep him from doing all that SD needs right now - I'm not sure what's best in most step-situations is best in every case.

I can say that, in my case, if I had been passive - just a coach on the sidelines - that would not have worked.  I needed to step up, and in fact I wish I had done it sooner than I did.

KHat's SD is in a very difficult place right now, and the bioparents are struggling.  The relatively passive approach which may be best in most step-parent homes may not be best right now.

(We all tend to project - see our situation in others' even when it's not really there.  So in the interest of open disclosure...my SS was 18 when I married his mom;  I later found out she had treated him badly when he was very young, and he had been drinking since 12, and on meth in high school.  Never sober til his late 20s and now in prison.  I'm not Superman but I really wish I had stepped in sooner and maybe I could have helped.)

[Matt]

Honestly, I've had to stop watching shows like Intervention because so many of them look back on the addict's childhood and say, "I turned to alcohol when my father remarried" or "No one made an effort and I started smoking pot" ... and I have a tendency to take each of these unique incidences and turn them into a grand life lesson with pending disaster at the other end ... "I can't marry him, I'll screw them up!  I have to make a bigger effort or I'll force her into drugs!"  

I don't watch it anymore either!  It hits too close to home.

There's a paradox here.  On the one hand, they tell families of addicts, "You didn't cause it and you can't cure it!", and that's helpful.  There's way too much guilt if you think you caused it.  But there's also the reality, that when you get to know addicts and other young adults with serious problems - not biological problems - it's pretty much always the case that something did happen in early life, and the adults involved didn't deal with it the best.

So yeah, you can't beat yourself up and take on too much responsibility or guilt - you have to accept that no matter what you do or don't do, it might not work.  You're not Superwoman either.

But at the same time, if you have the opportunity to help, and you don't, you may later regret it.  That's just the hard truth.

[DreamGirl]

Speaking of projection, capes, and an S emblazened on our chests...

I also tended to see some part of my (younger) self in my Stepkids and had my therapist lovingly point out how much that had to do with my own rescue efforts.

Just sayin...

[marlo6277]

Yep. I projected all my own difficult experience all over that one.

I think KHats approach is great. Keep yourself at a safe distance and encourage from the sidelines and dnt get too involved. If it comes later that she should get more involved or SD wants more involvement then so be it. But you can undo once its been done. Staying back and slowly joining in more is easier then to jump in and say "oops" later on.

[marlo6277]

***meant to say you CAN'T undo it once its been done***

[nothingupmysleeve]

A brief note on my life of toxic blended Upd BM, SD (dx-emerging PD nos/poss bipolar when UNpd ex refused to go further with therapy for her after I stopped "helping.")

If I knew then what I know now about PD'd families...

I would (of course not marry an UNpd but since I didn't know he was or even what a PD was we'll skip that as it may not apply to everyone else.

I would not offer anything but a "I support whatever you need to do". No suggestions no lawyers no therapists appts set up. I helped him win custody of my PD'd SD at age 12. I'm mentioned as to why she'd be better off with us in the court case by the GAL and SD's then child psychologist.

It was the beginning of the end of my marriage. I would advise any SO/spouse of someone dealing with a borderline or otherwise PD ex...
to go to therapy yourself with someone who is very good at accessing this situation. Switching custody had many unforeseeable consequences for myself, my children, and my SD. I was convinced that SD would settle down from her own traited symptoms once she was in a calm loving stable environment. Once it was all official she set about tilting our calm environment on it's axis, her mom took off all the way, and she turned on me, convincing my now exH to turn on me too.

I'm not saying not to support him. But I would caution anyone who wants to help them figure out the best way to do it...

that it may not be in your own best interest long term. That kids of dramatic family culture can turn your calmness into chaos. If I could go back...

I would not get involved with it. I would say, "Honey...whatever you want to do I support you," And then let him do it or not, make mistakes or not, fight for her or not. Win custody, or not.

I also know that until he turned on me I never would have believed that he would could or anyone telling me that this may come to be.

Blessed be your choice. My heart goes out to you as you walk thru this path with all it's difficulties.

I would not ever wish to walk the path I've taken these past 7 yrs again. But I am on the other side of it now, and slowly healing and trying now to navigate and co-parent with a man who treats me exactly as he treated UBPD BM. I really truly forgive her craziness now that I'm on the receiving end of all he dishes out when no one's looking.

Hugs,
NUMS (formerly Cinderellasstepmom)

[DreamGirl]

I was convinced that SD would settle down from her own traited symptoms once she was in a calm loving stable environment. Once it was all official she set about tilting our calm environment on it's axis...

And there is such a wonderful point.

It's the "Poor Paul Theory".

You put 99 people in a room who are balanced and happy - and then you add Paul, who is unhappy and unbalanced.

In theory, you would think that the 99 would bring Paul "up" to their level of happiness and balance.

Like red food coloring to water, it doesn't seem to work that way. Instead, Paul tends to bring the other 99 down with all his negativity, disdain, selfishness, and so forth.  And it takes but just one.

What if there is no change in behavior? Regardless of where SD13 resides. Then what? Is it something you are willing to take on and exposing your own son to with the behavior?

~DG