Baby born - now hell breaks loose

[Think About It...]

I screen all of her calls.  I have the kids call her directly.  If she sits next to me at a little league game, I walk away to another spot.  I don't go to a party if she is going to be there.  I try not to look at anything from her for a few hours before bed so I'm not up stewing.  We exchange kids after school so there is no contact.  As little contact as possible.

Well said.

I won't comment on having your current wife handle e-mails from the ex - not what I would choose but if it works that's good.

These other ideas from ConcernedDad sound great to me:  "As little contact as possible."

[Matt]

I screen all of her calls.  I have the kids call her directly.  If she sits next to me at a little league game, I walk away to another spot.  I don't go to a party if she is going to be there.  I try not to look at anything from her for a few hours before bed so I'm not up stewing.  We exchange kids after school so there is no contact.  As little contact as possible.

Well said.

I won't comment on having your current wife handle e-mails from the ex - not what I would choose but if it works that's good.

These other ideas from ConcernedDad sound great to me:  "As little contact as possible."

[concerneddad]

We started having her e-mail my new wife in hopes that she would be more "civil," with the knowledge that if that didn't work we would go to the next step which is only accepting handwritten letter sent via postal mail (i've seen people go this far.)   So far she has been very good and sticks to the points with my wife.  You are right, probably risky and not the right move for most. Some state courts also offer services where by e-mails must go through the court.  I would bet this keeps things more to point as they can easily be accessed in court.

[bpdsurvivor]

$50K seems quite high considering the case hasn't even started yet.  Have you checked in low cost legal aid in your community or perhaps you can find a L who actually does some pro bono work in these kinds of cases?

My lawyer told me, she would need a $5k retainer to get started. However, we can expect the costs to skyrocket, just due to the nature of my ex. She's still battling with her (ex)-husband to get divorced and sole custody and has been fighting for the last 6 years. Both parties have already paid over $250K in legal fees with no result so far. So, the $50K quote from my lawyer is almost a joke, given the track record of my ex's other custody litigation.

I can't get low cost legal aid, because I make too much. And in NY state there are no bro bono family lawyers, because there are too many family cases going on.

Also, as soon as I have started the legal route, she would start a counter case for the maximum amount of child support plus a percentage of her child care costs.

I simply can't affort a month or year long legal battle plus court ordered child support of more than $2000/month.

On the other hand, if I don't act quickly, my name will never appear on my daughter's birth certificate and there is only a 2 year grace period.

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GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? The focus of this board is about understanding the child, their needs, and supporting them in an intelligent and non self-sacrificing way. If your topic is mostly about the other parent and you are divorced, please go to Rebuilding our Life. If your topic is mostly about legal/custody issues, please go to Family law, Divorce, and Custody. If your topic is mostly about the other parent and you are still married, please go to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner. If you need help moving a thread, please contact a moderator. We are glad to help. :)

[JustSaying]

So what now? One suggestion is to make this a multiple choice answer instead of essay...it makes thinking through your options easier. You could A) Go all in and invest the $ necessary to see this through; B) Abandon all efforts; C) ?; D) ?; E) ?

What are your other options?

[Matt]

Have you considered contacting her ex, and trading information?  It might even be possible for one attorney to handle both cases - maybe cheaper than two - and that might give you both an advantage while she is fighting on two fronts.

Custody cases can be expensive but you probably have some options if you shop around.  And you won't incur those costs all at once - it will be over a couple of years...

[FamilyLaw]

Go to the courthouse or your county bar association (or online) and find out if the paperwork for filing for paternity is available for "pro per" or "pro se" litigants.  Get it, fill it out, and file it.  There will likely be a filing fee -- here in AZ it is $260, however, it can be waived by the Judge if your income is not large enough to afford this.  Then serve it on her.  You will probably also need to ask the court to set a hearing for temporary orders.

But do it NOW. Here is why:  (1) You need a paternity test to be sure the kid is yours.  It costs all of $60, but you'll probably need a court order to make her do it.  (2) Even if you don't do anything, your ex can come back years later and request past child support and the costs of the birth.  I have seen dads who thought they were good with their ex, something goes wrong and then they are facing tens of thousands of dollars in past support plus interest. And no court order to make sure they get parenting time along with the privilege of paying child support.  (3) Your child needs her father, no matter what your ex says.  And if your ex has the balls to say that she will get a new daddy, ten cents most judges will rip right into her -- I've seen it happen.

I'm a lawyer and I do family law for a living.  But unless you have a history as a convicted felon child abuser pedophile, there is no way in heck a simple paternity case will cost $50K.  Likewise, I like to work as much as the next guy, but more often than not I tell potential clients with paternity cases that you can do this on your own.  And frankly, a judge is going to like a guy who takes care of business right away.

[JustSaying]

So that's an interesting option C. Go pro se, assert your rights, and see how little you can spend while protecting yourself. FL's point seems to be that just going quietly into the night won't protect you from claims against you. In fact, it'd be hanging over your head for 18 years. Why are you assuming CS would run $2000 a month? I don't know what it is or how calculated...

[Matt]

Why are you assuming CS would run $2000 a month? I don't know what it is or how calculated...

In my state, child support is set by the court, based on an agreement between the parents, or a formula which is available online.  (Of course if they parents both have attorneys, the attorneys know how the formula works, and they advise their clients to settle based on the formula.)

The formula is based on each parents' incomes, and the % of the time the kids spend with each parent.  If you pay attention to the formula, and figure it out for yourself - don't assume that the other side is applying it fairly - child support should not be overwhelming.  (But I've heard it's much higher in some other states.)

Find the formula online so you are at least aware of what the guidelines say.

[david]

Get a small voice recorder and record everything she says to you. It may not be admissable in court but a psych evsaluator, cusatody evaluator, etc might find this info useful. You may never need to use it but cover all bases. Document ,document,document.

[bpdsurvivor]

All very good advice. I really appreciate it!

- I am planning to go pro se for the filiation (paternity declaration). It will cost me close to nothing. However, she will refuse it and try to delay it as much as possible. As "counter measure", she will most likely file a child support order against me, and based on calculations I did and what a lawyer told me, that will come to at least $2000/month. Right now I am paying her an "agreed" (lower) amount, that we talked about when were still kinda talking to each other. but so far she hasn't cashed my checks, so legally I haven't paid her. Once she files for child support, I will HAVE to get a lawyer to defend myself. There is no way around it

- In order to get joint custody, I would have to get a lawyer and go to court. There will be no way on earth this could be decided out of court. Everybody I've been talking to so far, lawyers, friends with similar cases, etc. told me that $50k is the MINIMUM in cases like this (dealing with pwBPD). As mentioned before, her ex and her have already spent $250k (each) and are still fighting. 

- teaming up with her ex would be the "nuclear option", but he won't be able to help me. I can't go much into details here (too risky), but let's just say that he wouldn't be able to help me, even if he wanted. I would have to fight for custody alone.

- I currently don't have a new relationship and quite frankly don't even know who would want to put up with this mess I am in right now. Dealing with a BPD mother is constrant stress to everyone involved. Not many people get it. Most of my friends don't get it, some even ask me how I could have left a pregnant woman or why we are not reconciling. I tried some dating in the last couple of months. But bringing up the baby makes most of them walk out. Just imagine I would bring up the mess I am in, because I have to deal with my crazy ex all the time. Also, with the child support I am paying now and will  have to pay in the future, plus the legal fees, I won't have any money left to take anyone out. It looks like the next couple of years are going to be a constant battle. Nobody wants to deal with that.

[sodacup]

My daughter is now 11 months old. My ex left me soon after she found out she is pregnant and went back to her home country to give birth. I also did not want to give up my daughter, so for the past year and a half, I have given in to all her requests (buy expensive items, sent monthly child support, etc), without Paternity being established. I flew over 4 times already this year to visit. To my ex's credit, she did bring my daughter to see me when I flew over. And she gave me a 20-minute webcam chat every weekend. I decided against taking legal action straight away because I didn't want to completely lose contact with my daughter (being out of jurisdiction means I have little legal leverage). I did consult with a lawyer at the country where my ex and my daughter lives in. He also charge a very high rate (about $350 per hour).

My ex and I made plans for my daughter's 1st birthday, but she kept changing her minds after I booked the venues and put down deposits. I got very upset and told her she has to spend money to book her own venue since she backed out on me twice already. It is not just the money that I wasted on these changes of plans that truly frustrate me, but the inconsistency. The truth is that without any legal recognition, she can always use our daughter as a bargaining chip to get whatever she wants.

So the options are (1) keep the things the way it is, giving in to my ex's requests (sometimes can be outrageous), delay the inevitable lawsuit and keep the contact arrangement I have right now, (2) get my lawyer to start the court application process, which with no doubt will exceed $10,000 just to settle paternity and initial visitation issues (given the international aspect of things). Lose some contacts (and cooperation from my ex to accommodate for visits) now. But possibly gaining more rights down the road. (3) Withdraw altogether (there is a chance my ex might pursue me given how afraid she is about being abandoned).

None of the approach seems good to me. Worse yet, I don't think it will lessen my daughter's sufferings as she grows up with a lone parent with diagnosed BPD, regardless which option I decide to pursue. But I have to make a decision..

Just sharing my story. Everyone has a unique situation. I hope the person who started the thread (the father with a newborn) will fare better than I do.

[ForeverDad]

Many good comments here, FamilyLaw is so right, waiting does not make it easier.  I have little to add, but do agree that without a court order literally everything is up in the air... not knowing 100% whether you're the father or not, no enforceable parenting time, potential of past child support being immediately due, etc.

Child support - retroactive ... In my state child support can be ordered retroactively, how far it can go back, I don't know.  In my case I filed for divorce, two months later my ex got temp custody, I was ordered to pay retroactive child support back to the date I filed, when the month ended less than two weeks later I was mailed a letter that I was delinquent in child support payments and would be reported in 30 days.  CSEA blamed it on the way their computer system is written, so I borrowed money to get it all paid.

Child support - income ... most calculations adjust for different income levels.  If you're earning less than her, that ought to count in your favor under the concept of "disparity of income".

Child support - other CS - if she is collecting other child support such as from her current husband, then that ought to reduce the child support you would otherwise owe.  It's not right for a mother's children to have multiple fathers just so the mother can get multiple payments.  Doesn't mean she won't try.

Nursing - Is she planning to breastfeed?  If so, she will likely claim baby has to stay with her 99% of the time.  That's a weak argument, hopefully the judge will simply tell her to express her milk and send it along with the baby.

Parenting schedule - In my county the published standard guideline schedule for children under 3 years of age is for the non-custodial parent to get alternate weekends and two separate overnights spaced in between.  That's 5 overnights every two weeks.  It is not unreasonable for you to end up with at least that much time.

Be prepared that she will claim you're an abuser and therefore shouldn't even see your child.  Ba humbug.  Those with BPD typically paint ALL their ex's black as abusers.  Probably her husband is painted black as well.  As FL wrote, the fact is that unless you are a "convicted felon child abuser pedophile" the court generally will have CPS do a quick eval (yes, a delay she causes) and then largely ignore her claims.  Remember that family court usually ignores "adult behaviors" and concentrates on "parenting behaviors" when considering custody and parenting time issues.  The baby's only just been born, she has no valid basis to complain about your parenting.

What she can do is repeatedly Obstruct and cause innumerable Delays.  The court will likely allow her to misbehave quite a bit with little or no consequences.  I was in court for some 5+ years.  I started out with alternate weekends.  When the divorce was final we settled for shared parenting.  When that failed within two years, I filed for custody and a little over a year later I got custody.  It's not a sprint, it's a marathon.  Lots of members here have done it, you can too.

Right now I am paying her an "agreed" (lower) amount, that we talked about when were still kinda talking to each other. but so far she hasn't cashed my checks, so legally I haven't paid her. Once she files for child support, I will HAVE to get a lawyer to defend myself. There is no way around it.

Be fully aware that the court will most likely ignore your payments, viewing them as "gifts".  Legally they're probably just financial "gifts" unless it was set in a COURT ORDER.

I would have to fight for custody alone.

However, if she loses custody of her other children to their father, her loss there may help you get more time if not custody also.

[Mauser]

Ugh. My first divorce- with 3 kids- cost me $1000 to the penny. My second divorce from BPD man cost me about $1800- which was a waste, I admit.

Do what you can to get a ROP (recognition of paternity, or whatever they call it in your state). If both parties agree and appear before a notary (Yeah, I know, fat chance) it's super inexpensive. That would make custody a bit easier.

BTW, congrats on your beautiful new daughter. I hope you get lots of wonderful time with her.