PERSPECTIVES: From idealization to devaluation - why we struggle

[T. Moore]

WOW.  That was an amazing thread and helped me to really understand and put things into perspective!  I have always wondered why I stuck it out for so many years after all the drama and with the help of a T. I am realizing that its based on my own co-dependancy and childhood issues (lonely child).  It describes my r/s to a T.  Thanks for that!  I will continue reading it again and again to help me understand!

T. Moore

[zoso80]

What brought us into the situation?

I was still getting over being hurt from a relationship that ended the year prior. I wanted to find THE relationship to grow old with.  I've always found dating to be taxing.  I also wanted kids. DxBPDgf had a daughter and things moved fast. It was like a dream. Someone whom I felt this amazing connection that was so  like me and I just had this amazing feeling with.

I was going to have the situation I wanted without ever going through the traumas of break ups again. This was perfect.

(so I thought at the time)

• What vulnerabilities exist within us ?

I never dated much while younger. I had my own journey go to through until I was ready to invite someone into my life. I was naive and lacked the understanding of that as people we have to go through dating and that finding a life partner is a process of refinement and learning what you want out of someone. I didn't know this and thought if I chose correctly I'd not have to deal with the messiness of dating.

Low self worth is a problem.  Without going too much into it, someone who was willing to quell my loneliness, was an achilles heel. All the right things were said to make me feel like this was the one.

• How does our own childhood play a role?

I was a lonely child. That lonely child wanted nothing more than to connect with someone.  I was always artistic, individual and marched to my own drummer.

Perhaps I was ripe for a BPD.

• Is this dynamic evident in our everyday life?

The BPD experience has forced a lot of self introspection and growth.  I'm not as isolated as I once was. I used to hardly socialize. Now, I can socialize, but just not in large quantities like an extrovert. I understand I have my own strengths and weaknesses and getting out there and talking to people as much as I am comfortable is good for me.

I also understand now I'm not alone for being flawed or broken. I'm alone because I was way too cautious. It took a BPD and the love bombing and idealization to completely nullify my caution.  I had to grow.

There are still traits of that lonely child.  Perhaps there will always be. However, through introspection and understanding I'm not letting it be something that hinders my life.

• How can you begin to heal?

For me, is to keep my tendency to go into my shell in check. Keep a healthy balance of my internal and external world.  I'm an INFJ personality type, so we're quirky in some ways.

I've already made great progress understanding my nature, my issues and the things I need to work on. My therapist helped me identify them as well.   I had to be aware of them instead of just cruising on auto-pilot.

The BPD experience tore my rose colored glass off of what a relationship is. It's not what dxBPDgf though it was or I believed either, the ooey gooey forever stuff (the ooey gooey stuff has since come to symbolize to me at least with a BPD as control). Instead it's a comittment to life together. Working towards the same goals, knowing you are with someone who your life is complete with and you are happy.

I had to learn and go through this pain to be able to grow. I'm happier now and have a greater understanding of myself and life than I did before dxBPDgf.

[lessonslearned]

Eventually, the fantasy begins to unravel for the lonely child, that they are alone- and the person that the lonely child fell in love with, (the person in the mirror,) was actually YOU.

Radical acceptance comes when you realize that what was mirrored really wasn_

[bb12]

Hi LessonsLearned,
My take on this is that what we saw in them wasn't there 'true self' (because they don't have one)
So what our exBPD tapped into was the ideal image of ourselves
When I think about my over-compensating, paying for everything, over-complimenting in my r/s, I know that was not my true self. Everything I did to check that my ex loved me, because they don't naturally give much at all, was what I really wanted them to do to me. I wanted them to say nice things, give more, compliment, be emotionally available.
So I thing 2010 is spot on. We do all of that, but really want behaviour from them. We want to KNOW how they feel. To KNOW we are genuinely loved, instead of the weird riddle we settled for
BB12

[sea5045]

This is so hard to read, but so right on...I read this last week, and then went to an Al-anon meeting and cried buckets..I could feel the loneliness of the last two years oozing out of me. I not only lost my ex, but family connections and I think al-anon may be able to help me through this piece. I am understanding driven and I have stayed too long in connections with people that are hurtful. this is really some on target stuff for me.

[tailspin]

 Hi! everyone,

In retrospect, I saw my expwbpd place me in the role of someone to heal the emptiness within himself.  He complained of this emptiness repeatedly and I believe he initially saw me as an opportunity to heal his wounds and fill this void within himself. 

However, I was also placed into the role of *the mother* who committed the original abuse against him; he also discussed scenarios using neighbors, friends, etc. instead of himself being placed in the role of the abused child.  He leaned on me heavily and I sensed he wanted my unconditional love while simultaneously believing it didn't really exist.

So the rip for him was seeing me in both the role of savior and abuser and these roles shifted back and forth depending on the phase of his engulfment/abandonment cycle.  Little by little I became seen more as the abuser instead of the savior before I was discarded. 

I struggled with this devaluation because I also believed I was his savior and didn't understand why I was being punished for playing my part perfectly.  My narcissism and codependency were engage the entire time; he wasn't the only one with issues. 

I think our narcissism plays a huge role in our struggles and does stem from being a lonely child.  2010's post made me sob.

tailspin

[Colibri]

Wow,
Thanks to the contributors to this great thread.
I am always both happy and sad to understand more about what has and is happening in my life with a ex bf with uBPD.
Some of the realities of the condition and the role both partners play are hard to digest.
I certainly have been willing to put up with lots of abuse, in the hopes that the good would stay.
I played it all, mother, friend, lover, trying to fix everything I could for him, facilitate everything I could.
In the end I have heard him saying You are the worst thing that ever happened to me. You ruined my life.
Where I used to be helpful I am not anymore, and what meant love is not anymore.
 
Yet he still clings to me and I still cling to him. I forgive his accusations and twisted logic. I feel I love him and I still feel like he was so unique in his understanding of the "whole me". I am now aware of the mirror and idealization phase, but it is so hard to face the fact that what you experience was not what you thought.
 
It is a hard thing to do: to accept that all that love and attention you got was an over exaggeration of what real love is, and at the same time to feel that is ok to want to be loved, and that you deserved to be loved, just not like this.

[charred]

Dead on for me. Lonely child in r/s with abandoned child.. fits.

My folks lived in the country isolated from most people, they argued, fought and after many stormy years divorced, I went to move in with my dad and found he actually lived with his girlfriend in her house.. but maintained an apartment for appearances. I lived in the apartment alone for 3 yrs till I started college. Even when I was a smaller kid I was alone, we had a big house with a finished basement and my parents and siblings lived upstairs, I lived in a room in the basement, my own room because I was oldest. The understanding child thing fits as well, I was drawn to psychology trying to understand things that didnt' make sense, then philosophy.. I got in to my career field and have been like a bottomless pit trying to understand all I could, with this feeling that if I just understand it, I can do something about it and make everything okay.

Then after a re-encounter/recycling with my exBPDgf that had devastated me long ago.. I find myself alone, my family gone due to divorce, my career shaky and understanding much that I never fathomed, and with the sense that there is no controlling any of this. The lights are on and what I see is me confused... still the lonely child.

[optimistje]

I recognize so much frow what I"m reading here. It"s not easy for me to read and write about this things, about emotions in english. I searched a long time for a comparable site in my language but it doens't exist. So I"ll try here. The lessons seem so interesting to me...

I feel this devaluation more and more. In the beginning she found me amazing, lovely, sweet... but more and more she critisize me for nothing: the last week she reproached me that I begon writing christmas cards without her, we had to do it all together, she reproached me that I didn't say to a friend who want's to give me a present, that I didn't say what I really prefer, she reproached me that I didn't tell to our friends that she worked harder at at he preparing of a suprise for them... pfffttt...

I asked myself, does she really means that all this is a problem... or is she searching for quarrel. And she can tell me that somethings irritates her... but she always make it so big...such a big problem of it. And I have the feeling what I"m saying/not saying, reacting/not react, taking a time out, be gentil, comprehensive, become angry... it doesn"t matter. And after hours, days it's always my fould whe had quarrels, because I don't accept myself, I don't have enough selfestimation, I really don't understand anything of what she tells me and I don't wanna change... and at the end she always has doubts about our relation...

I became so tired of all this... it's really increasing.. Now she has again to think about us because I do nothing to change... pfftttt...

How can I react to this behaviour without losing more confidence in her, in us and in myself?

I'll read the lessons...

[beachtalks]

     I think idealization is something everyone does, especially the BPD person, because it is their way of rescuing themselves.  The concept of romantic love has much to do with identity, therefore, who we choose to partner with can appear to heal our emotional wounds and complete our identity.  This is why, in my opinion, many BPD people tend to choose partners with attributes that oppose their weaknesses, in effort to complete them.  (Yeah, it's smart  )  I choose my BPDh because he is honest and demonstrative and sincere in ways I could never reach.  His loyalty and passion also make me feel safe, even if he is brutal and harsh and unconventional at times.
     I am vulnerable to bossy, alpha people because I am attracted to their strength and passion.  I know that some BPD types are actually passive aggressive, but my BPDSO is not.  I have been bullied in relationships before because I jump into relationships quickly, without carefully assessing them first.  By the time I get to know someone, we are usually already living together, and they've become a part of my family.  It's not that I don't like to be alone, because I do, but I think I allow things and people to easily distract me from my agenda.  I have not at all been cautious in the beginnings...  
     As a child, I was terribly shy and had a hard time being assertive.  I was modeled the caretaker position because I watched my mother be the caretaker to my BPD stepdad for 25 years, and saw it end poorly.  I have a hard time making positive changes toward compassion because I worry I am being a pushover, like my mom often seemed like, and yet I also only saw this dynamic modeled and not female assertiveness, so I find it hard to draw boundaries.
Is this dynamic evident in our everyday life?
     I believe my healing will begin with this relationship, by combining assertiveness, drawing important boundaries, and also learning to love more generously and with abandon.  I am really appreciating the whole concept of "be careful what you ask for," meaning that I asked for this intense, high-maintenance relationship.  It's not for everyone, and is sometimes exhausting, but it's fulfilling me in ways I have never been fulfilled and would not trade my marriage for anything.  I always blamed my mother for her co-dependent relationship to my step-father, but looking back it was he that wronged her.  I recently told my mother this, that her love for him was beautiful, and she greatly appreciated hearing this.

[daze]

The lonely child and abandoned child schemas seem pretty true for me and my uBPDh.

Thank you!

[charred]

Pointing out the bossy alpha type being drawn to them.. that is me. My exBPDgf gives the appearance of a very strong woman, she commands respect, she is the stand in for the principal in the school she teaches in, she seems to have an almost religious fervor and certainty to her that is very appealing to me. My dad was wishy-washy, indecisive, and a mean NPD person. I liked that my pwBPD seemed strongly moral, certain of her views (everything was black and white to her ) and she didn't vary in what she thought was right. So long as we were both headed the same way and getting along...   I looked up to her...   but after being around and really getting my illusions corrected...   I see her as someone that is acting like they know what they are doing and are sure of themselves, certain and so forth. But its a childs acting...   she isn't in fact very moral, she second guesses everything, has fits of self doubt and panic attacks...   out of sight of most people. She is the abandoned child still, and I am to a degree the lonely child...   but coming much closer to being the lonely adult...   its closer.

[daze]

Charred,

I'm a fairly strong independent person and initially thought my uBPDh was too.  He puts up a pretty good facade.  It doesn't seem that we're always in the lonely child and abandoned child modes - it seems mainly when we are triggered. 

I was triggered, like 2010's post suggests, when he began the obvious devaluation and the push pull became more intense and frequent.  The devaluation, my reaction to it, and his disregard for my feelings and concerns / lack of empathy are what led me to therapy.  I knew something was off with how I was feeling and what was happening. 

My T has been explaining that when we have unfinished business with a parent or both parents that we take it and the feelings we had as children into the intimate relationship.  I'm going to show T this post. 

Surely not all nons have unfinished business with parents and family of origin issues, but I bet a lot do.  It's becoming clear that I do and I wish I'd addressed it earlier in life - 46 is getting up there.  Better late than never!   

Daze

[charred]

Daze-
I think the modes are triggered, and so is our reactions. I am normally pretty nice (been told that) and easy going. In looking at how I would deal with my pwBPD under pressure.. it matches an NPD person...   and I despise that. It comes from my upbringing, under attack I act like my dad.. which is brutally effective.. but not nice and not how I believe I am at heart. My exBPDgf claims that she is not normally the way she is with me and sounds convincing...   but she is so 110% BPD it is scary, every trait dramatically. She paints all her ex's black (husbands and BFs). So.. I have little doubt she is disordered, and I suspect I push her buttons more than most people have.. she has come back time and again and seemed to have a strong attachment to me, much as I do with her, so I think it is just tolerating more drama really.

I am glad to be finally doing something about my own issues, wish I had sought therapy a long long time ago (like when my folks divorced when I was a young teen) or during the rough patches the first go round with my pwBPD, or for sure after she dumped me and I was near suicidal.. but left town and gave up all I had in the world at the time. Or even during my marriage when it had issues, or instead of going for the divorce...   been about 35 yrs of time I should have been getting my head examined, but didn't. Now at 50 I am finally doing so and probably making good progress, but so many years might have been better, and some bad mistakes avoided. Its like braces.. folks wanted me to get my teeth fixed, I went to dentist, they hooked a thing on to a tooth to pull it down and it broke off, dug out roof of my mouth again, did it second time, broke off second time and I said heck with it.. so no braces. I still have funky teeth, and could have just done something about it then and had years of good teeth.. now it is slower and harder to fix, will cost me out of pocket (instead of folks) and it is even more embarassing to wear braces now than in middle school.. seems similar. Better late than never I guess.

The facade they put up is excellent.. I didn't get that it was an act for decades. Wonder how many actors/actresses are BPD and just doing what they would do anyway.

My unfinished business is probably childhood attachment related from what I can see, my mom is a great woman, has overcome a lot of things, but is very cold/detached. Her mother died having my aunt, when my mom was 5, then her dad was called up for ww2, so she was dumped on relatives and grew up taking care of her little sisters. My dad is a mess, his dad also went to ww2, so he grew up with him not around, being doted on, and ended up very NPD.. and over the years turned really nasty, he is a doctor with a god complex, and very spiteful. I haven't been around him or talked to him in 13 yrs now. Didn't spend much time with my mom, when I was 12 my folks seperated, then at 14 they divorced, and I moved in with my dad.. who didn't live in his apartment, it was for appearances...   he lived with his girlfriend (one of many).. and I had little to do with my mom after that. So her second husband passed away last year and I started spending more time with her, and it is just awkward...   she cares, but has a hard time even giving a hug. After reading up on attachment theory.. I am dead on with the avoidant/fearful attachment type, was ADHD since 7, and I suspect that may really just be the attachment issue. Push people away and throw myself in to distracting activities, sports, my job, obsessing over hobbies, anything but being present and normal.. so the lonely child mode fits well. After my own divorce, and breaking up with my pwBPD...   I am alone. I traveled for work for years and lost most my friends. So one way or another I need to face up to the challenges and do something about it.

[daze]

Charred,

I can relate to the narcissistic traits coming out when triggered by BPD devaluation, push, and silent treatment.  That's what was happening with me that led me to therapy.  I didn't understand because I'm really not like that.  I don't need to be the dominant one, center of attention, it's not all about me, etc.  I can come up with a laundry list of things within myself I would like to improve and things I would like to do.  So, I am not a narcissist per se.

My FOO issues go back at least three generations.  My maternal grandmother's parents divorced when she was a little girl.  She and her sisters ran away from her mom and stepdad in the middle of the night to live with their dad.  My grandmother was raped as a 5 or 6 year old by a cousin.  My graNPDarents married prior to my grandfather going to WW2.  He was a Marine pilot in the S. Pacific.  When my mom and her sister were little girls, my grandmother had a nervous breakdown and was hospitalized and given electric shock treatments.  My mom and her sister were separated and had to stay with family and friends for a year, which clearly affected my mother.  My mom and grandmother have a tricky relationship even now. 

My parents were 17 and 20 when they met in college in the south where my family is from and married.  My paternal graNPDarents were in the Middle East working, and my maternal graNPDarents were living in California.  So my graNPDarents were out of the picture and not available to guide them.  Evidently there was a pregnancy scare.  I was born a little over a year after they married on my mother's birthday.  My sister was born two and a half years later.

My parents were young and pretty ignorant.  They did some stupid things like playing chicken with trains (my sister was too little to remember).  They fought in front of me and there was at least one occasion of domestic violence in my presence.  When I was in first or second grade, my mom cheated on my dad with our married church minister.  Then she had other affairs.  They divorced when I was in fourth grade and my dad got custody of me and my sister - highly unusual in the 1970s.  My dad did the best he could with us under the circumstances.  His FOO had some issues too but I think it's my mom's side that is key. 

Anyway, I live near both my parents.  Have a pretty good relationship with my dad.  My mom can still be difficult at times, but we do have a relationship.  My maternal grandmother appears to have histrionic traits.  My mom has pretty strong narcissistic traits.  I'm close with my sister and we are very different - like religious and political views - I respect that.  I have relationships with most family members and have some friends and colleages/work friends.  I'm self-employed and a mom so I haven't had a lot of time for me.

You know, it's funny that I actually thought if I was just here and raised my sons (I have two teenage boys from my first marriage) and tried to do the opposite of what my parents did that everything would turn out fine.  Oh, no no no.  Though I broke the maternal abandonment pattern in my family, I obviously have issues, and my sons seem to have some issues - or maybe it's teenager stuff. T says by addressing my issues, they will see it and it will help them too.

Have a great day!

[charred]

Sounds like growing up in your family was rough too. I think its usually something.. used to think most families were good and only a few had issues.. that rich folks were doing great, etc...   and I know now that even many of the ones that seem good, are horrible, often the more money the more screwed up the people are.

I had the theory that the reason my pwBPD had such a strong bond for me was that I always wanted unconditional love and never had it, then during the idealization phase with my pwBPD.. I thought I had found it and was ecstatic. The clinging didn't bug me much originally, but the hater phase made no sense.. then instead of explanation I got dumped.. and was devastated, far more like losing a parent than a girlfriend. Had breaks with other gals before and after that and they hurt a few months and I moved on, the break with the pwBPD was devastating...   it was a good 10 yrs before I was totally normal acting again. And I thought I was over her.. so over 20 yrs later she contacts me on FB.. and I wanted no part of her.. got me on the phone to tell me something important.. and the voice and words.. I didn't stand a chance.. the time hadn't changed anything, bond was insane. I feel terrible that I ended up getting a divorce.. when I was starting all that I didn't know she was BPD.. I thought it was true love and I have paid the price. I am trying to minimize the damage to my daughter...   lord knows I don't want her to be like me to the point of falling for someone with BPD.. or any major disorder for that matter.

My mom and I sort of get along now.. haven't been around my dad in years, he is too caustic. My step dad passed away last january so I started spending more time with my mom, and her political views are about to make me quit helping. She posts rabid anti-obama and pro-republican and pro guns stuff, along with religious stuff ...   and every single "pass this to 10 of your friends" things she finds. The weird thing.. she was never republican, never racist, and never religious. It is truly irritating to me. I tried to get her to stop emailing me the junk.. but its still on FB.. and she won't listen to reason.. she is sounding like a gun toting crazy.. but in person seems normal. My sister worries about it too, her friends and other people are like "oh its so good she can express herself" and similar drivel. Anyway...   she is old and has friends with those views, maybe its just a bit of overdoing it to fit in.

Keep at it, I think T helps.. it knocked out the stress that was driving me crazy, its helped me to reconnect a bit to my feelings I have always ran from. So in time maybe I can be normal enough to have normal friends.. and relationships. Seems like striving for mediocrity from somewhere below it...   but it is what it is.

[daze]

Charred,

Yes, it seems mental illness affects all socioeconomic levels.  My FOO is upper-middle class and we have a liberal sprinkling of it.

The idealization phase is an incredible experience.  I have fallen in love before but this was different.  My husband literally swept me off my feet - except I knew he wasn't "perfect" though he said I was.  I told him from the beginning that I'm not perfect and that hopefully he wasn't too disappointed as he learned my flaws.  I didn't know about personality disorders for it to be a red flag, but it did seem at times to be a little extreme.

Then the devaluation was almost devastating and for me brought out what might be narcissistic aspects of my personality as maybe a defense against it.  And then there are the codependent aspects.  There for a while I was about as unstable as he is.  His push/pull was so confusing until I finally recognized the pattern.  He was a mystery that I felt the need to understand besides the fact that I love him.  I knew that my feelings and reactions were not normal - not normal for me.  Hence my therapy, which scared the hell out of him.  He told me a a couple of weeks ago that initially he was certain I would leave him if I had therapy.  I told him I could understand that because we've had such a rough time, but that the therapy is for my issues.

So we are separated but still together - there is no way we could live together at this point.  I'm dealing with him better - mainly boundaries, validation, and detachment when needed.  He responds but still has a hard time with the detachment.  It appears that he will need successful treatment for us to have a healthy relationship.  Don't know if he will reach the same conclusion.  I'm not strong enough to handle it for the long term but I am patient at this point because there is so much good in him.

Sigh...   Looking forward to therapy tomorrow!

Daze

[charred]

I am hoping it was the r/s that brought out my narcissistic traits, and I am not NPD deep down...   despise that in my dad.

My exBPDgf seems like she has a lot of good in her, she works with kids, used to work with developmentally disabled kids ( ?) seems religious, volunteers, contributes to everything she sees or runs in to. But over time my being taken by all the good in her has changed to wondering if there really is any...   as she seems to be putting on an act when being good.. and is so 100% not acting when she is being angry. She is awkward in how she is good.. like it isn't natural. Her volunteering is lots of show and very little accomplishing anything for other people...   the contributing is to people like girl scouts selling cookies in front of stores, Salvation Army.. pretty much anyone that comes up to you shopping...   and she has said before that she teaches in this community and has to always look PC and dignified.. so she won't leave her house without makeup and being dressed like a teacher/vice principal look.. in case she runs in to parents/teachers/neighbors. It all seems to be appearance and playing grown up. I truly didn't notice that aspect of her for a long time.

May be that is normal for a lot of people.. I haven't worked in my own city in close to 15 yrs.. I consult all over the US and Canada.. sometimes even farther away.. but there is no concern of running in to my boss or coworkers, or clients...   it doesn't happen.

I am LC at the moment with my exBPDgf.. was NC, should be NC, but I am pretty lonely. My exwife is busy much of the time, my daughter discourages her from trying to reconcile.. and she agrees I need to fix things before we stand a chance. Am in limbo job wise.. being talked to by a big company .. could have benefits.. but still would be traveling all the time and consulting, otherwise I have to pick up some more contracts ...   but haven't so far.. so I am free most the time, and alone.

The position my exBPDgf takes is that she is right about everything and I am wrong about everything, and why won't I just realize it and come back to her. Wish I were kidding...   she doesn't put it that way.. we had about 5-6 things we argued about, and she says her position is correct one on every one. Things like she should be first priority above all other people.. and I argue she was first priority for me in r/s, but daughter is my first priority.. and it isn't a contest and what takes priority is what is a priority.. sometimes thats other peoples needs. My doctor, T, and most the grownups I know see it same as I do.. she then argues that makes her 3rd or 4th or whatever on the list.. and then the arguments take off.

She claims that she isn't like this with anyone else, that my actions bring out these (BPD).. reactions from her. The reverse seems to be true.. but with 7 broken engagements, 2 divorces.. and my own nightmare of a r/s with her...   I think she is the posterchild of BPD. So my head says run, my heart is starting to at times listen to my head, and if I can deal with my own issues I need to move on, maybe reconciling with my wife even.  Getting my family back and living normally ever after would be a silver lining for all this stormy stuff. Meeting someone normal and having friends would be an improvement. I don't think I can ever be back with my exBPDgf.. and make it work. She is pretty far gone, has zero interest in working on herself, and I am done getting abused by someone I love. Now if I can just pull free from the debris of this r/s.

PS: I put a red flag.. I think she was drawn to working with people like her.. developmentally challenged...   not normal, not adults, due to her issues...   nothing wrong in general with working with them, but you have to wonder why someone chooses to do what they do, and she chose some heartbreaking work. Seen her in pain about them.. still never seen empathy from her though.

[maria1]

Hi Charred- just wanted to chip in to say:

Things like she should be first priority above all other people.. and I argue she was first priority for me in r/s, but daughter is my first priority.. and it isn't a contest and what takes priority is what is a priority.. sometimes thats other peoples needs. My doctor, T, and most the grownups I know see it same as I do..

There is no question- setting the BPD aside. Any adult who seriously expects you to put them in front of your own child is wrong. There is no debate to be had and it may just help you to focus on that.

If I didn't have children I would have chosen the pain of my ex as a nice slow death, really. It's a way of turning away from life I think, like any addiction. A way of sliding out of the world with some extreme pleasure and extreme pain. Just like heroin only much better looking, uglier at times though.

Daughter is and should always be first priority. I had to chip in because you sounded as if you might at times be convinced by her argument. Please don't be. My children saved me 

[charred]

maria1-

My mom, medical doctor, therapist, exwife, and a few co-workers all agreed she was off base on that. In fact my T took me to a few other T's in his office gave them the essentials and asked opinion and the unanimous answer was "run don't walk away from the r/s." Easier said than done. I kept hoping she (pwBPD) would see the light.. but despite being very smart in some ways.. she is emotionally hopeless.

She did put me first.. to my embarassement.. ahead of her teen age son at times.. and I told her I thought that was wrong...   and we were back engaged in battle.

 I think the whole abandonment thing plays heavily in her thinking, she doesn't want someone normal, she wants someone that gives her unconditional love, respect and adoration.. while never questioning her or disagreeing with her. Wouldn't happen with any normal person, and I am far more head strong than average...   we had a 7 hr argument once.. and I finally stopped based on not wanting to be with someone I needed to argue for 7 hrs with. But she picked wrong guy for a floor mat.. I don't comply and stay quiet, so we end up with fireworks and hurt all around.