D9's T says D9 is living in a fantasy world - and that it is okay

[Think About It....]

D9 has been seeing a T since August and we are very close to coming to the end of our custody dispute.  D9 has told her minor's counsel that she wants to live with uBPDmom in another state.  D9 has been verbally abused since the day she was born and doesn't realize uBPDmom's behavior.

Especially over the past 45 days, I would ask D9 about an activity or something that happened.  Once D9 and S15 went to the movies and D9 swears that uBPDmom was there.  She also claims to have talked to uBPDmom every night before bed while D9 was visiting my family for three weeks.  That was so far from the truth.

Last night I talked to D9's T and she said D9 has never brought up the verbal attacks or neglect in session.  D9's T and S15's T share an office so she knows a little about S15's and my claims of the abuse.  The T admitted that D9 is most likely living in a fantasy world when it comes to uBPDmom and that it is perfectly normal for 9-year olds to do this.  She said that we should not interfere with this fantasy and soon enough D9 will learn that uBPDmom's behavior isn't normal.

I really can't see how a T could allow this to happen, especially knowing that stbx wants to move 3k miles away with uBPDmom.  So I'm thinking that I need to get a new T for D9.

Thoughts?

[1stand10]

D9 has been seeing a T since August and we are very close to coming to the end of our custody dispute.  D9 has told her minor's counsel that she wants to live with uBPDmom in another state.  D9 has been verbally abused since the day she was born and doesn't realize uBPDmom's behavior.

Especially over the past 45 days, I would ask D9 about an activity or something that happened.  Once D9 and S15 went to the movies and D9 swears that uBPDmom was there.  She also claims to have talked to uBPDmom every night before bed while D9 was visiting my family for three weeks.  That was so far from the truth.

Last night I talked to D9's T and she said D9 has never brought up the verbal attacks or neglect in session.  D9's T and S15's T share an office so she knows a little about S15's and my claims of the abuse.  The T admitted that D9 is most likely living in a fantasy world when it comes to uBPDmom and that it is perfectly normal for 9-year olds to do this.  She said that we should not interfere with this fantasy and soon enough D9 will learn that uBPDmom's behavior isn't normal.

I really can't see how a T could allow this to happen, especially knowing that stbx wants to move 3k miles away with uBPDmom.  So I'm thinking that I need to get a new T for D9.

Thoughts?

[beyondbelief]

I don't have any firm answers for you.  Here are some very nonprofessional thoughts.

It could be "normal" and it might indicate a problem.  Perhaps you should go by yourself and talk to a couple of other child T and get their opinions before making a decision on how to handle things.

Kids around that age are easily torn most just want to have a nice loving family.  When there is conflict they don't understand it and don't know who to side with.  There could have been some attempts either overt or covert at poisoning or maybe not.  If she has grown up in a household where there was a lot of conflict directed at one parent then they might assume that is normal  and they should take the side of the real abuser.  I know of some kids like this that did figure things out probably in their mid teens.

The inability to remember could be part of not wanting to hurt either parent.  It could be something else.  I just don't know.

[bethechange123]

My thoughts are that it might be hard to explain to a 9 year old that her mother's behavior is hurting her.  Just thinking about my own experience, I didn't realize my mother was really hurting me until I was well into my teens.  Before that, I loved her very, very much and always wanted to be with her.  I think the therapist is right about it being a fantasy world, or that she just doesn't understand at this age. 

Beyond that, I am just thinking it wouldn't be the best situation to have your daughter end up 3,000 miles away alone with her BPD mother... 

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? The focus of this board is about understanding the child, their needs, and supporting them in an intelligent and non self-sacrificing way. If your topic is mostly about the other parent and you are divorced, please go to Rebuilding our Life. If your topic is mostly about legal/custody issues, please go to Family law, Divorce, and Custody. If your topic is mostly about the other parent and you are still married, please go to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner. If you need help moving a thread, please contact a moderator. We are glad to help. :)

[Matt]

I would probably talk more to the T and try to understand what she's saying.  To me, it's not OK for the child to no be seeing things as they are, but maybe there's something I don't understand about that...

My SD22 was the "all-good" child, and was in the room when her mom did lots of bad stuff - raged, threatened me, accused me of stuff - and SD doesn't remember any of it and doesn't seem to see her mom's current behavior as odd or wrong.  Her mom tells her stuff that just isn't true, and SD assumes that it is, though by now she should know better.  SD seems to be doing OK, but living with thinking this twisted - I mean SD's own thinking - can't be good for her, and sooner or later I think she will need to deal with it, or there will be bad consequences of some sort...

Maybe if you can draw out the T more and understand what she's saying that will help you decide how to proceed.

On the legal stuff, this seems like one more example of bias.  If D9 was saying, "I want to live with Dad", I think the professionals would all say, "A child that young doesn't get a vote.  We know what's best for her."  But when she says "I want to live with Mom" they give that weight, instead of trying to understand what's really going on...

[david]

My BPDw ran away with the kids 4 plus years ago. The boys were 8.5 and 3.5 years old. Bpdw used serious alienation tactics. They walked into my house back then and said in unison, "We hate you and never want to see you again. We want to live with mom." The older boy "got it around 10 years old. S8 "got it" around 6 months ago. The created fantasies about how great their mom was and how evil I was. They used to tell me that I left our house and caused this. I would calmly ask them where our house is (the house I am living in) and I would them ask how did I leave and still be living here ? It took a while before they "got it". My T said to give it time, be consistent,and tell the truth, all without disparaging their mom. Today S13 wants to live with me and S8 is worried that mom doesn't think right and she yells too much.

I think this needs to be addressed in court someway. Could the T testify about this and can you then show that this is not healthy. Eventually D9 will "get it" at some point and she will have no one to help her if she is miles away from reality. Sounds like dysfunction being passed on to the next generation. You would need a T to say it in a more professional manner. A forensic psychologist may be of use.