Only you guys will understand this.

[Think About It....]

Married 10 years to a woman with BPD.  Separated 4 years, divorced 2.  Kids now S13, D15, SD22 and SS34.  50/50 legally but the younger kids are mostly with me.  Ex lives a few miles away.

On nights they sleep at their mom's house, after school the kids come home for a few hours.  But today they had activities so she was going to pick them up.

Ex e-mailed me, "Can you pick up the kids and I'll pick them up at your house later?"  Um, OK.

I picked up D15 and her phone rang - Mom - "Ask your dad if he can take you to my house."  She passes my house on her way home from work so this made no sense, but I said "Um, OK."

We picked up S13 a couple minutes later and his phone immediately rang - Mom - "Are you both with your dad?  Is he bringing you to my house?"  Yes, Mom.

I take them to her house and she's not there.  D15 looks for a key and S13 calls Mom.  She was at my house - said she forgot she asked me to take them to her house.

Thinking I would only be gone a few minutes, I had left the front door unlocked.  A few years ago she came into my house when I was gone - my stepson was home and told me she looked through all my papers, presumably looking for financial information she could use against me in the divorce.  This time nobody was home to see what she was doing.

I got home and she wasn't there, and I couldn't tell if anything had been taken or looked through.

Maybe I could get some fingerprints off the front door...

[Matt]

Married 10 years to a woman with BPD.  Separated 4 years, divorced 2.  Kids now S13, D15, SD22 and SS34.  50/50 legally but the younger kids are mostly with me.  Ex lives a few miles away.

On nights they sleep at their mom's house, after school the kids come home for a few hours.  But today they had activities so she was going to pick them up.

Ex e-mailed me, "Can you pick up the kids and I'll pick them up at your house later?"  Um, OK.

I picked up D15 and her phone rang - Mom - "Ask your dad if he can take you to my house."  She passes my house on her way home from work so this made no sense, but I said "Um, OK."

We picked up S13 a couple minutes later and his phone immediately rang - Mom - "Are you both with your dad?  Is he bringing you to my house?"  Yes, Mom.

I take them to her house and she's not there.  D15 looks for a key and S13 calls Mom.  She was at my house - said she forgot she asked me to take them to her house.

Thinking I would only be gone a few minutes, I had left the front door unlocked.  A few years ago she came into my house when I was gone - my stepson was home and told me she looked through all my papers, presumably looking for financial information she could use against me in the divorce.  This time nobody was home to see what she was doing.

I got home and she wasn't there, and I couldn't tell if anything had been taken or looked through.

Maybe I could get some fingerprints off the front door...

[NorthernGirl]

That sucks Matt. One of my fears is that my husband's ex will come into our home (she used to go into DH's house all the time after the divorce, until I pointed out it wasn't reasonable.)

Have you considered getting fake cameras at the entrances and letting her think that you have a security system?

[Matt]

Have you considered getting fake cameras at the entrances and letting her think that you have a security system?

No, it really didn't occur to me to worry about it...

When I first moved here I thought a lot about not telling her where I lived.  I do most of the driving - I had the court order written that way to keep her away from my previous home - but it really wouldn't be very practical and the kids wouldn't understand it.  But I've made it clear she isn't supposed to come in the house (and I don't go in her house either).

The easiest thing would be to lock the door I guess.

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[marlo6277]

Matt, my heart jumped into my throat when I read that she was at your house.  OMG that is my worst nightmare.  I often leave the door unlocked for the kids and they often leave it unlocked themselves when coming and going.  (sometimes they even left it wide open...in the dead of winter  )

Have you looked around? Seen anything out of place? Sorry that happened, Matt.  That really stinks...

[Matt]

I can't tell that anything has been disturbed or taken, but I'm not exactly Felix Unger.  My "office" is one end of the kitchen table, with stuff scattered around;  she could have gone through all that and I'd never know it, or she even could have taken something.

One of her issues is she thinks I have infinite money and she's poor;  actually right now the reverse is true - she has an OK job and I've struggled the last few months just to pay the mortgage.  If she came in the house that may have been her focus - finding evidence that I make a lot of money so she can get some of it.

I don't live in a gated community, but on a cul-de-sac off a loop off a loop off a loop - you really have to want to find this place - absolutely zero traffic except the neighbors and the mailman.  So we all feel very comfortable leaving the doors unlocked - the kids lose their keys.  I had one key outside the front door, but if I do that the kids might tell their mom about it.  Keeping the place secure from her would impact them.  But I think I can figure something out - give them keys to clip inside their backpacks maybe - just not how we live our lives up to this point...

[marlo6277]

I absolutely hear you - my house is at a dead end street - same as you traffic wise - there just isn't any. So ya - I have a tendency to leave the doors unlocks all the time.

My city is also small and the "big news" is when someones bike gets stolen. There really isn't any crime in this city so really everyone in the neighbourhood just leaves doors unlocked. Between us and the neighbours there's always someone with one eye on the houses too.

I totally get how it would change how you live. I'd be locked out every other day probably because I'd forget my keys! I never use them!

So I guess you jsut play the "hurry up and wait" game and see if she asks for something or files something...wonder if she found she found what she was looking for (assuming she did go in and have a peek).

[Matt]

The ironic thing is, if she took me to court now, I could probably get custody changed in my favor, and quit paying child support - the kids are with me most of the time, and their mom makes more than I do (though that may change in time).  I think I could handle that without an attorney and win.  It would be a hassle, but part of me wishes she would do that...

[tog]

Yep, this is my SO's big worry too. She lives very close by and made some initial attempts to get in (while he was there) right after he moved in. He doesn't want to give his son a key for fear that she will get it and come in looking for stuff.  His out-of-town family wants to stay there while he's away (long story kept minimal for privacy reasons) and he's reluctant because he fears she will bulldoze her way into the house.  I think his family will stay at my place instead.

Even though I've filled in my family on some of the outrageous things she does, it's still hard for them to not think he's being paranoid. Like you said, Matt, only people who've lived with it understand.

I mentioned the idea of fake cameras to him. He's long thought about getting a real security system.

[david]

Real estate agents have lock boxes to leave keys for other agentds to show a house. Maybe you can get something like that and let the kids know the combination. Just make sure they don't give it to mom. I would get a real video camera tied into a computer. This way you have evidence just in case you need it.

[DreamGirl]

My husband's ex has some of these "dumb blonde" moments. (so do my teenagers) I don't really know the 'science' behind it - perhaps the heightened stress causes memory loss or confusion. I remember when she was so overwhelmed, she literally forgot only one of her daughter's at daycare... and we had just talked about it.

What happened when she entered your home last time? Did she steal anything? Attempt at gathering information? Was she successful?

I understand that you don't trust her, but say she did enter your home? I know it's unlawful entry and all that jazz, but is there much she could steal? Even information wise? Your identity?

I think you have the right idea in that all your resolution is wrapped up in locking the door.

~DG

[Free One]

This is one of my big fears too. Found out my ex's bro had to start locking up his house because my ex was just letting himself in whenever.

Costco has nice camera security systems for about $200, if you want to go that route.

[MuGGzy]

This is EXACTLY why my fiancee and I do not want my ex to even know we moved and we are FORBIDDING my son to tell her where we live, at threat of not being allowed to move with us if he can't agree to that.
She recently stole my debit card from her own son's wallet when she came in to use the bathroom and I have no doubt that she would do it again or worse if she knew where we lived and knew I had nicer stuff in my new place.

Luckily my son is about to turn 18 so I can reasonably expect him to hand setting up visits and such with his mother on his own, with younger kids I know this is often less of an option.

[Matt]

I have dumb blonde moments too, and I'm not even blonde...

What happened when she entered your home last time? Did she steal anything? Attempt at gathering information? Was she successful?

I understand that you don't trust her, but say she did enter your home? I know it's unlawful entry and all that jazz, but is there much she could steal? Even information wise? Your identity?

I think you have the right idea in that all your resolution is wrapped up in locking the door.

That was 2007.  I was traveling on business.  My stepson was living with me then.  His mom came to the door and told him she needed to get his little brother's homework.  That was an obvious lie - we just lived 2 blocks apart so if S8 needed his homework he would have walked over and gotten it.  But my stepson has always been intimidated by her - he desperately seeks her approval - so he let her in.  She went from room to room, digging through my many piles of papers, presumably looking for financial information.  Her theory then (and now) is that I'm hiding money from her - not disclosing my huge income.

I doubt that she found anything useful, because I had already turned over everything they asked for, multiple times.  (She was paying an attorney to ask for the same information time after time.)

This time, if she did enter my home, and rummaged through my stacks of paper, she wouldn't find much.  Some stuff that I would prefer she not have access to but probably no harm would be done.  If my computer was there, that would be worse, but I don't think she could figure out how to get any information from it.

It's more the behavior, and the sense of violation, that gets to me.  I leave my front and back doors unlocked at times because I can't imagine my neighbors violating that boundary, and there just isn't anybody else in our neighborhood, ever.  The idea that this woman who has attacked me in so many ways, for so many years, might just open my front door and walk in - and elaborately lure me away so she could do that - is very creepy...

[Free One]

Yes, that feeling is very creepy. It's like an outward manifestation of the lack of boundaries.

[DreamGirl]

Well you've certainly locked your own proverbial front door to "you". You've completely built up a barrier -with boundaries, low contact, email communication, etc. - never to allow her in again. (Right?)

Perhaps, sucking it up... accepting that she sucks at boundaries (both emotional and physical)... locking the darn door... and realizing that's just how it goes when you coparent with a mentally disordered person.

Or maybe a moat would help?  

[Matt]

This is EXACTLY why my fiancee and I do not want my ex to even know we moved and we are FORBIDDING my son to tell her where we live, at threat of not being allowed to move with us if he can't agree to that.
She recently stole my debit card from her own son's wallet when she came in to use the bathroom and I have no doubt that she would do it again or worse if she knew where we lived and knew I had nicer stuff in my new place.

Luckily my son is about to turn 18 so I can reasonably expect him to hand setting up visits and such with his mother on his own, with younger kids I know this is often less of an option.

Yeah, pretty similar situation.  Where you and I are somewhat different is, so far at least, I haven't pulled S13 and D15 into it.  For example, when we moved, and I was very tempted not to tell their mom where we lived, I never mentioned that to the kids...just thought it through til I decided that wouldn't work.  Then to set the realistic boundary - she parks at the curb and walks to the front door but not inside - I did that with body language - when she comes to the door I come to the door, open it, and call the kids.  For awhile I would stand there, facing into the house, til the kids came, my focus on them and whether they had all their stuff.  Now I don't bother - I let the kids go to the door - because my ex seems to understand that her place is outside the house.

So the kids have never had to deal with the issue - I've micro-managed it - and I've never had to say the words, "Your mom is not allowed in our house."

I don't know if that will work for you or not.  (And based on what happened yesterday I'm no longer 100% sure it's working for me either...)

[Matt]

Well you've certainly locked your own proverbial front door to "you". You've completely built up a barrier -with boundaries, low contact, email communication, etc. - never to allow her in again. (Right?)

Perhaps, sucking it up... accepting that she sucks at boundaries (both emotional and physical)... locking the darn door... and realizing that's just how it goes when you coparent with a mentally disordered person.

Or maybe a moat would help?  

I was thinking maybe lasers.

Yeah, you're right - I'm past wanting any real interactions with her.  It's been 5 years since we had something that pretended to be a relationship.  If it was practical I would be happy as a clam to never see her or hear from her again, but because of the kids that's not practical.  But it's down to a very minimal and practical level so emotionally it's just a little annoyance now and then, not a problem.

This experience brings it back to the front burner.  Locking the doors is surely the simple thing to do, just need to re-train myself and the kids...

The fake-camera idea - my S13 would figure that out quickly.  He's a little science nerd so he would want to know everything about the camera and play with it - see the recorded video - maybe stage a little show in front of the house and then watch it.  I'd have to tell him the camera is fake, and I generally don't tell the kids "Don't tell you mom!".  I just don't tell them anything I don't want their mom to know.

A real camera - I had no idea they were so cheap - might be worth it...

Thanks everybody!

Matt

[MuGGzy]

Yeah, pretty similar situation.  Where you and I are somewhat different is, so far at least, I haven't pulled S13 and D15 into it.

Well I let my son have is illusions for as long as possible. I "protected" him by doing things like letting buying a gift for him for xmas and letting the ex say it was from her, so that he didn't have to be sad that his mom was broke and didn't get him anything.
As he continued to mature it became less necessary for me to try to hide how crazy she was from him because he picked up on it himself. I am sure at least your D15 is beginning to see that her mom is a "little different" from other moms and your son will soon as well.
At this point my son is happier if he never hears from her and gets very flustered when he does, but he is becoming an adult and he will need to learn how to set his own boundaries with her for the rest of his life. I don't envy any of our kids.

[Matt]

I "protected" him by doing things like letting buying a gift for him for xmas and letting the ex say it was from her, so that he didn't have to be sad that his mom was broke and didn't get him anything.

I haven't done that - deceived the kids.  For me it's a question of how much to tell them, and the best way to say things.  I won't cover up for their mom or make them think things that aren't true.

So going back to when we moved...I really wanted to not give her the address, and if I had done that I would have told the kids the truth:  "I decided that it would be best for me to do the driving - that's what we agreed to when we got divorced - and best if your mom doesn't come to our house.  The reason is that in the past there were some serious problems - she became violent a few times, and she accused me of assault, which wasn't right and caused me lots of problems.  That won't happen as long as she and I aren't in the same place, and when I drop you off at her house I can make sure we aren't in the same place.  So I have to ask you to respect that, and not give her our address.  I know that will be a hassle at times but that's what I need you to do."

I decided not to do that because it would have been pretty impractical and the kids would have seen it as excessive.

I have told the kids what made sense at different times.  You're right, they have always seen her behavior as odd, but they see it as funny, or sometimes mean, but they don't have a way to judge it as "disordered" or "dysfunctional" or whatever term we might put on it.

At the most extreme, when D15 was seeing some bizarre behavior, I did tell her (as I have told SS34 and SD22), "Your mom was diagnosed with multiple psychological disorders and ordered by the court to get psychotherapy.  I did a lot of research and talked to our marriage counselor who explained it to me and told me that most people with problems like hers choose not to get therapy, and that has been your mom's choice as well.  So there is not much chance she will change.  You and I and the other kids need to deal with her the way she is, and I think you're doing that pretty well.  If that is ever a problem let me know and I'll help somehow." (or something like that).

Most professionals say to stay away from her issues or her diagnosis, but my own choice is that the truth is very important, and I'm not going to mislead the kids, or hide information from them that might be helpful to them, when they can deal with it.  It's hard to know what and when and how to tell them stuff.  I find that if I examine my motives - ask myself if I'm telling them something to help them, or because I feel the need to say it - most of the time it's for me not them and I have to bite my tongue.

My problem in this case is that I grew up on a farm - our front door didn't even have a lock - and it's hard for me to think in terms of locking doors.  I've always chosen safe neighborhoods, and I don't leave valuable stuff laying around (except my computer).  This will require some effort...

[pilgrim]

Sorry to hear about this, Matt, I have something similar.

Mine has gone into my house apparently to rearrange things as a way of continuing the gaslighting from our marriage.  Me changing locks, disabling the combination lock on front door (don't want to ask my kids to keep my combination a secret from their mom), how much to tell kids when xw is undiagnosed, not misleading kids and trying to decide what age they can start to know the truth about her, these are all familiar.

I think it's just about accepting that this person has an illness, one trait of which is that they will recognize no boundaries; there's no limit to their deceit and tricks.  Changing the locks worked real good for me.

After I disabled the combination lock and went to key-only (after changing the key lock), I got a long email from their mom complaining about that -  I knew I'd done something right

Thanks for posting this, I don't really know anyone outside of here who will relate as we obviously do.