mindbending - suspicion

[Think About It...]

some valuable things have gone missing in the last few days.
We intended selling them to renovate this house. But approximately 1/3 has dissapeared.

H - "are you sure"
Me "yes I am, I inventoried Monday"
H " Who then? How,  ?" etc

He is going to put up surveliance cameras.

Today I came home and he had been here for a couple of hours already, except for a short period at the post office.

I walked into the bedroom and there were crumbs of some sort of weird salty biscuit all over the bed and spilled onto the floor.
Again,
 H "What?, How. What is it, I didn't know it was there. Havnt seen it before. How strange, someone has entered the house again"
Me -"what to just leave strange salty chemical flakes of god know what on our bed?"

blah, blah, blah...

He is fired up to get the cameras in place asap and we are racking our brain about who and what is causing all this.

BUT...deep inside the hairs on my neck stand up when I dare to start thinking he knows more than he is letting on.
Just like when the woman's blouse was found next to the spa years ago..He knew absolutely nothing about it. It must have blown there on the wind.
Just like the pot odour he swore was coming from the neighbours, but I'll be damed if I could smell it outside at all. Just in my hallway and bathroom. But its my imagination its definitely coming in through the b/room window.


Is this reasonable suspicion..or paranoia on my part.
You couldnt get a more upset, umbraged person than him at the moment, but I'm not convinced he is innocent.

[Happiest]

some valuable things have gone missing in the last few days.
We intended selling them to renovate this house. But approximately 1/3 has dissapeared.

H - "are you sure"
Me "yes I am, I inventoried Monday"
H " Who then? How,  ?" etc

He is going to put up surveliance cameras.

Today I came home and he had been here for a couple of hours already, except for a short period at the post office.

I walked into the bedroom and there were crumbs of some sort of weird salty biscuit all over the bed and spilled onto the floor.
Again,
 H "What?, How. What is it, I didn't know it was there. Havnt seen it before. How strange, someone has entered the house again"
Me -"what to just leave strange salty chemical flakes of god know what on our bed?"

blah, blah, blah...

He is fired up to get the cameras in place asap and we are racking our brain about who and what is causing all this.

BUT...deep inside the hairs on my neck stand up when I dare to start thinking he knows more than he is letting on.
Just like when the woman's blouse was found next to the spa years ago..He knew absolutely nothing about it. It must have blown there on the wind.
Just like the pot odour he swore was coming from the neighbours, but I'll be damed if I could smell it outside at all. Just in my hallway and bathroom. But its my imagination its definitely coming in through the b/room window.


Is this reasonable suspicion..or paranoia on my part.
You couldnt get a more upset, umbraged person than him at the moment, but I'm not convinced he is innocent.

[Chihiro]

I used to know someone who was a long time chemical dependency counselor and recovering addict.  He told me once the following about alcoholics and opiate addicts and their tendencies towards dishonesty (applies I think also to pwBPD, with an addition):

An alcoholic and opiate addict will both steal your wallet.  The difference is, an opiate addict will then help you look for it.

To this I would add:  a pwBPD will then rage at you when you don't thank them for their efforts to help you find your stolen wallet. 

[Happiest]

Yep, thanks Chiro.
I actually feel bad suspecting him. He isnt addicted to drugs though. He is broke and he isnt getting the money he hoped to get from me and I can tell he is silently raging about it.
If he is taking the valuables, then he is also stealing from himself because they belong to both of us. we lost about $5000 worth.

He has a "friend" who brokers the gems and co-incidently the friend just dropped a text the same day. That friend has a history.

[Chihiro]

With reference to pwBPD, the above maxim doesn't necessarily have to do with drugs. Just with the level of deception they are capable of. Of you and of themselves. I have found this to be true from my own personal experience.

[Happiest]

Yes your right. Thats why I even so much as suspected him anyway.
I catch him telling quite a few "white lies" and actual outright lies. He denies a lot of things that are in black and white. He goes through periods of total honesty , then out of the blue couldnt be truthful to save his life. And most times he has nothing whatesoever to lose by telling the truth.

The flakey things on the bed is weird though. I thought it was bread crumbs at first (he NEVER eats in bed for real)
The are very salty and even acidic in a way. I dont think its food as such. Cant make it out and its creepy sleeping in there now because I feel someones been on my bed even though the bedspread was in the same ruffled shape as when I left that morning.

I'm wondering if there is somewhere I can take the flakes to get tested.

He doesnt have a problem sleeping in there last night, but I couldnt. They could only have ended up there in the 20 minutes he was at the post office, but the house was locked up.

His sister has a key, and one mate HAD a key to look after the cats while we were away last October.

[Grey Kitty]

So you say you have previously been suspicious, and later found out he *was* doing something despite the denial / innocence.

How did you resolve it in the past? Did he acknowledge that he had done things, and then lied about it?

He (99% certain) will not agree...but when your trust has been violated before, you have some justification for not believing him this time.

Are there precedents about what to do now based on prior events?  (For example, I read here of someone who was previously cheated on who had access to their partner's email accounts / cell phone history)

[Happiest]

Thanks Kitty,
Yes he varies between extreme deniel with umbrage that I accuse him. Only to admit and apologise months down the track. (and thats with the expectation that time has resolved the anger).
Most of the time its just deniel even in the face of the obvious.

It hasnt been resolved in the past. I watch in awe of how he just moves on. I cant, and except for a period of 18 months proir to us getting married (which is why I thought we were good to get married) he just fibs and lies his way through any issue.
Some things I just shrug off because I cant be bothered with the drama and some things really rock me around. Like this. Who the heck was in my bedroom if it wasnt him who left the flacky crumb things there?

He just does not get the seriousness of being deceitful. Iv'e had to sotp asking him how his day went and if he got to spend time with anyone. (thats not a nosey question in my book seeing he only works about ten hours a week) . but he lies about the answer. Mostly concealing how much time he spends during the day with his mum and sister. Or lengthy conversations over the phone..of course if I find out later, then he says he just forgot to mention it. I know he knows that wasting time just hanging out with the matriachs of the family who pay him mega attention is not healthy. Its been bought up at the T years ago. So I know why he doesnt admit to spending every second day in their compnay one way or another.

In the past (before we got married and the 18 mths before that, I would have an argument because I wouldnt be treated like a fool, and then I would leave. He has had to own the lie before I would return. sometimes that took months. Anyone reading this would say ...so why on earth come back at all. well because I thought gradually it would get better. And it did for the 18 mths before we got married. BUt then I was in a rental and he was working on buikding my trust as his major goal.

I have access to his email.facebook and phone. Not because I'm nosey, but I believe in transparency balanced with privacy. I'm also aware that if he didnt want me to see something, there is always the delete buttons.


Its the intense feeling that the person who stoll the items, was him, and the person leaving crumbs on our bed was also him.
I get scared of being overly paraniod though. and I hate accusing innocent people.

[Surnia]

To be suspicious is a difficult thing. If I am sure somebody tell my lies I usually feel very bad.
To be not shure is difficult too. Part of this: Perhaps I am with paranoia or false accusations, even not spoken.

I hate accusing innocent people.

On the other side:

I'm not convinced he is innocent.

That must be very difficult for you.


Thats more the emotional part. More on the facts side:

If I am missing things valuable for 5000, I would most probably go to the police.

I have access to his email.facebook and phone. Not because I'm nosey, but I believe in transparency balanced with privacy. I'm also aware that if he didnt want me to see something, there is always the delete buttons.

Here I have mixed feelings about the transparency in privacy. other way round: If my partner can see my email.fb.phone, there is IMHO no much privacy for me.

[Happiest]

I have access to his email.facebook and phone. Not because I'm nosey, but I believe in transparency balanced with privacy. I'm also aware that if he didnt want me to see something, there is always the delete buttons.

Here I have mixed feelings about the transparency in privacy. other way round: If my partner can see my email.fb.phone, there is IMHO no much privacy for me.
 

 
 
I understand your mixed feelings Surnia about privacy. There is a fine line between transparency encroaching on privacy I know.  Long before we had our 18 month seperation, I found out about two instances where he was being decietful. My proof was a text message

I spoke to my Dad who has been happily married for 25 years. They have trust and transparency. His take was, if you have nothing to hide, why do we need to protect our privacy over who we speak to and spend time with. I was married for 20 years previously. My ex husband had 5 affairs and numerous compromising situations. He had ample oportunity to arrange those things even before email and mobile phones came on the scene.
His affairs where mostly non-premeditated and happened independantly of emails and mobile phones.

My H and I have to have access to our phones and emails. We run a business together that requries us answering each others phones and attending to emails. We are on each others FB, and again, if he isnt comfortable with it, what does he need to hide.

Having said that, I dont go flicking through his stuff for the sake of checking up with him. Its pointless anyway now, because if he wanted to hide anything nefarious, he can use a delete button.
Somethings though, stand out like neon lights. For instance - a young female client texting him asking for a massage appointment and ending it with three xxx (kisses). - Thats not appropriate and we discussed it. At first he was "It means nothing and she probably does that to every one".-
One of the first things we are taught in Remedial Massage College is - watch out for your signals with your clients, keep a highly professional status with them. Otherwise you will end up with messy transferance issues.
My H asked his mentor about my issue with the XXX's and the mentor told him he was being silly protecting a client over his business partner/fg/f. As well as that, the girl was playing with him if she is sending xxxx's in text messages.
How did I know the text had the xxxs. He was out and the text came in at 9 at night, I looked at it thinking it might be family or friend in need. It was her and I wasnt impressed with the tone of her request for a massage asap.

I would like to think I know the difference on having transparency and encroaching on privacy.
If we were just flat mates I wouldn't touch his phone or emails, but then again I wouldnt be intimate with him or watch his undies either or share my finances with him.
Trust cant be developed in a healthy way if we are hiding things from each other.

I do understand that to you Surnia, your enails and phones etc give you privacy, but what is it that you need to have privacy over and hide with someone I presume you love and share a bed with? I know this forum would be one thing but what else ?
 
Oh and about the police issue, I did speak to them, and because there is no evidence that someone broke in, and nothing else in the house was touched, they are not interrested. We have to change the locks. It was interesting that the first thing they asked was "was I sure that the property stolen wasn't just taken by my husband at some point".

[Grey Kitty]

These issues with privacy are ones that every couple has to address somehow, and their personal styles and histories really come into it a lot. I think different levels of privacy work well for different couples.

In my case, I sometimes call/txt/email friends in ways that I do not want my wife to read.

• It can be discussing with a friend whether she has BPD or not.
• It could be just a quick note to a friend saying that she is feeling depressed or down and would probably love to hear from them. (Need to sneak this one in because she feels that if somebody does something for her after being asked it isn't sincere and doesn't count...and this sort of feeling happens more often when she is depressed and/or having an episode)
• I could be trying to figure out how to handle a challenging decision I have to make with my wife.
• Or I could be just planning a surprise party for her

My other issue with wanting privacy is that she has done things to shut down friendships of mine before, and I'm afraid of her trying to control me (or succeeding?)

There are two "ideal" statements that don't precisely contradict each other, but they do sum up the problem:

If you trust me, you don't need to see everything I do.
If I'm being trustworthy, you could see everything I'm doing.

[pallavirajsinghani]

CheBlossom:  It appears to me that you are being "Gaslighted".  This is a clinical term, based on the movie with the same name.  Please do watch the movie and also google the term.  it will be self-explanatory.

This is a classic tactic used by persons with personality disorders, whether they use it deliberately to manipulate the other person or unconsciously, as a self-defense coping mechanism, is up for debate.

Regardless of deliberate or unconscious, its effect can be detrimental to you, as it builds a foundation of distrust of your own reality.

You have already begun to start questioning your own perceptions.  The detrimental effect on you has already begun.

Please be extra cautious of giving in to his "reality". 

[Happiest]

If you trust me, you don't need to see everything I do.
If I'm being trustworthy, you could see everything I'm doing.

Good sumary Kitty.  Its a conundrum.

Pallavira,
Thanks - Its does feel like it.
I just cant prove he took the items and left the crumbs. Cant prove it and he knows I suspect him and keeps asking for reasurance that I know its not him.'
But if it wasnt him, how does he sleep well. I am so worried someone is having acces to the house, I cant sleep in the bedroom.

I do have great faith though, that if I'm meant to get the truth, it will come. I really do hope it isnt him. But cant shake off the gut feeling.

[Nutts45]

Well if you get cameras, it would solve someone coming in the house.  Just mind where the cameras are when you dress.

And if something comes up missing after the cameras, that somehow doesn't get caught on film...he knows where the cameras are.

And yes...people go to pawn shops all the time and sell there own stuff..

Follow your gut...start making a plan on "What if"

[Happiest]

Thanks Nutts,
Funily enough, he has ordered the camera and is setting it up this weekend. Npw , do I buy a second camera, , to watch that the first camera isnt being tampered with?
Survelience Cameras I'm understanding, can be sinced with our computers, but also if he has access then of course nothing is going to go missing.

and if it did, he could delete the activity. The camera will be set up in the area that we keep valuables. Except there arent any now. We have sold whats left to renovate the house. So really we are shutting the gate after the house has bolted.

And yep, your right, plans on "what if" are always in place. I know where I'll go, how much I need to go there and how I'll go about doing that if needed.

I would have done it long ago if he was a totall pr...k, but thats just it, he isnt. He is loveable, constantly telling me he loves me, always seeking affection (more than I can give sometimes). He mostly means well, cooks (not cleand though ...) and 70% of the time easy to be around. I'm lucky compared to the stories I read here.
But the other 30% can be very unpleasant and he has wonky boundaries and the denials are a strain. Theft though, well how do we come back from that.

Has anyone else had things stolen from them by their SO's? Considering BPD, do you forgive and try to move on.
IIts one thing to understand its a mental illness and they cant help it, and is it another to tolerate it and give them the wrong message.
What would a person with a seriously BPDso do about the situation given we know they are sick. Cause thats the catch isnt it?

And anyway, I havnt got proof it was him. I only have the lack of facts that it was someone else and my gut feeeling.
If he had never been caught out lying in the past, I would never consider its him now that is the thief.

[pallavirajsinghani]

If you have things missing and he says that he did not take them and you suspect someone coming into the house.  I suggest that you should file a police report.

If possible, take him with you to file the report so he can corroborate and sign it too.

The report will be based upon:

1)  The facts that you know (that things are missing).

2)  The facts that he is telling you (that he did not take anything.

If he is reluctant to go with you to file the "theft" and continues to be reluctant, then that alone will reveal quite a lot to you.

Don't wait for him to admit to any truths.  Trust your own judgement.  Not trusting your own reality is the first step towards distorted perceptions and is a classic, well known, well established result of brainwashing.  It occurs in cults, it occurs to entire populations (Hitler, Mussolini, Manson, ), it occurs in individual relationships (see many stories here on this site).

If you see yourself reluctant to make a police report, then you need to explore the reasons of your own personal reluctance. 

Hope this helps.

[Happiest]

Its helps Pala thanks,
I have spoken to the police. H wont. He says its a waste of time and they wont do anything in light of the lack of evidence and lack of suspicious people. (He says he has been through similar things before)

 The police said the same thing. No forced entry, and I cant give any clues who might be involved. They did say, that if we havnt given the key to anyone, and no-one but H and I knew the valuables were at our house, then it doesnt look good for my h. They even asked me if he does drugs or gambles. These things go to the Chief Dedective at our local station and then he deciseds if they have the resources to investigate. They probably wont though.

They also suggested we get an alarm.

Its bizzarre, things have settled down somewhat, and he is off happily playing with an old school friend. I'm home working and you wouldnt believe we had $5,000 worth of stuff taken. It seems like normal, but it isn't. Its surreal. I just want to KNOW...more than anything else.

[pallavirajsinghani]

CheBlossom:  You already know.   Your heart wants to give him the benefit of the doubt, your brain tells you another story altogether.

He is happy?  Well, it is like a child who has just gotten away with eating forbidden candy (the stuff) and his mother(you) and other figures of authority (the police) have bought his denials despite the pile of wrappers in his room.  The police won't investigate as he is also the owner of the stuff that was taken and if he is the prime suspect, then legally they cannot investigate.  It looks like you have spoken to the police and he hasn't...that tells you something too.

Also, if he says that this stuff has happened to him before, possibly he is going through "disassociation" and indeed he really has episodic lapses of memory.

Facts are facts.  Truth is subjective.  You know the Truth already, you want it to be supported by facts.  You want the child to admit to eating the candy or want to catch the child eating it.

[Happiest]

yeah, thats so.

Now its a matter of time before some truth is revealed.
I spoke with my brother today. The scientist of the family. He s the one you dont want to offend or do harm to. He never forgets or forgives. I asked him for some advice.
he is installing some technology for me, and he had devised a situation involving cash. I have NEVER EVER involved myself in this much deciet and I feel terrible.

But at the same time, if I am going to be true to myself, I have to clear this up. Even if I realise this is part of the illness, I can work this relationship around protecting my assetts and valuables.
If I decide I dont want to hang in there, at least I know that Ive made a decision on facts.

This is not a nice feeling. I know if I act on my gut now, I will always wonder if I have made a bad judgement and thats not my style.

Thanks for your support.
Oh and as for the Gaslighting. my brother says I need to keep a journal, and send to him every week. Keeping a diary will keep me grounded if someone else is also observing.

[Grey Kitty]

Now its a matter of time before some truth is revealed.
I spoke with my brother today. The scientist of the family. He s the one you dont want to offend or do harm to. He never forgets or forgives. I asked him for some advice.
he is installing some technology for me, and he had devised a situation involving cash. I have NEVER EVER involved myself in this much deciet and I feel terrible.

But at the same time, if I am going to be true to myself, I have to clear this up. Even if I realise this is part of the illness, I can work this relationship around protecting my assetts and valuables.

Have you directly accused him of stealing the items? (I'm not recommending it...just asking what happened)

Don't set a "trap" to catch your H doing it again. That sort of stuff gets ugly quick. (Putting up cameras is one thing...leaving something tempting in front of the camera is another)

Besides, it won't really prove anything about what happened last time.

But you can try to shift your life so you are less exposed to this sort of behavior in the future. Make your finances more separate, and try to structure your life so that there aren't jointly owned valuable things lying around the house, especially if they are easy to sell quickly.

[Happiest]

Now its a matter of time before some truth is revealed.
I spoke with my brother today. The scientist of the family. He s the one you dont want to offend or do harm to. He never forgets or forgives. I asked him for some advice.
he is installing some technology for me, and he had devised a situation involving cash. I have NEVER EVER involved myself in this much deciet and I feel terrible.

But at the same time, if I am going to be true to myself, I have to clear this up. Even if I realise this is part of the illness, I can work this relationship around protecting my assetts and valuables.

Have you directly accused him of stealing the items? (I'm not recommending it...just asking what happened)

Don't set a "trap" to catch your H doing it again. That sort of stuff gets ugly quick. (Putting up cameras is one thing...leaving something tempting in front of the camera is another)

Besides, it won't really prove anything about what happened last time.

But you can try to shift your life so you are less exposed to this sort of behavior in the future. Make your finances more separate, and try to structure your life so that there aren't jointly owned valuable things lying around the house, especially if they are easy to sell quickly.

Yep thats good advise Kitty. I must admit, I dont feel good about the "trap".
 
As for accusing him - no I havn't. Without facts, I cant and it wouldnt be fair. Circumstancial evidence and gut feeling arent enough. He has though, asked me if I think he has done it. I said, I didn't know what to think. its all too weird.(especially the flacky crumbs on the bed)  He was despondant about that answer and tried hard to assure me it wasnt him so I accepted that on the face of it. . We went over all the possibilities and  and came up with the friend who looks after the house and cats when we are away.
He handed back our key, but he could have made another one. I have know this guy for years and just cant get my head around him doing anything to hurt us. He also would have had to survey the place a lot to know when we are both out. and what would the crumbs be about?

I'm going to keep the journal though. things that he says when it suits him and how he changes that days/weeks later and says "i didnt say that".
Now that feels like gaslighting even if its unintentional.

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