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Author Topic: When the only one who believes in you... is you... mostly.  (Read 754 times)
EmpathyBoy
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« on: January 30, 2012, 07:52:59 PM »

Hi all! Hi!

Sorry if I tend to ramble even when I type...so I will make all do efforts to be a bit more concise, but my emotional cup doth overflow! lol

Background:
--------------
I am looking for a new job and a possible career and area change too.

I was not the GC, so all my life I had to believe in myself while my sister got all the support any whim.  In my case it is NPD Father, BPD Mother with frontal lobe brain damage...like superBPD.

I have always got jobs on my own merit since I was a teenager...never once using any connection or influence of my parents or anyone else.  I got companies that rejected me by letter to literally create a student position for me after I made my follow-up in person.

I decided to try my hand at a Business Start-up after taking a few months break after a bullying/mobbing situation at my last job and it did not work out, but I am now heading back and I know it will be hard!

I was a little excited to tell my mother...okay someone of my new strategy that would enable me to get a local contract or temp job and then jump to a better permanent one without looking like a job hopper...and she just throws negative junk like I would be lucky to be paid to lick the sidewalk...a crippled idiot just because my business did not succeed and the housing bubble burst.

I know I need to Rocky it up, but I am curious how others handle such things...to avoid criticism and having the wind knocked out of your sails by your BPD other...who really prefers you more broken and needy so they get all the attention.

Previously I have just banned the subject during my job search and may need to do so again as zero feedback is better than a bunch of negative stuff.  

Please share or suggest!
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EmpathyBoy
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« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2012, 08:08:25 PM »

Hi EmpathyBoy.  Welcome!

I'm sorry to hear that your BPD mother was so unsupportive and invalidating when you told her about your upcoming career plans.  I understand how frustrating that is.  My uBPDm always makes my career choices about her...kind of a "if you do that, this is how it will affect me and it's awful" attitude.  Because apparently I'm only supposed to consider her when I make choices about my career.   rolleyes

How do I deal with it?  I don't tell her anything about my career until it's a done deal.  For instance, about a year and a half ago, I started applying for new opportunities with my organization.  I didn't say a single word about it until I'd been offered the job and had signed the move agreement.  Of course uBPDm wasn't happy.  ("But that's going to move you farther away, not closer!"  Sniff Sniff Wail Wail - as if I'd ever said I wanted to move closer.). The point is I didn't have to deal with the drama during the most stressful parts - the application, interview, and wait for the word.

Remember, they only have as much ammo to throw at you as you give them.  Are there other folks you can share your career plans with who are more supportive of you?

Hang in there. 
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« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2012, 08:09:17 PM »

Self-awareness is a beautiful thing. Now that I know that I second-guess myself (and why!), it's much easier to recognize when I'm doing it and address what's really making me feel inadequate or insecure. T (therapy) has been amazing, too, at helping me work on silencing my inner critic.

Do you live with your parents? That does make it harder to keep the job search stuff quiet, but you have a right to only tell them minimal information. You need support and realistic feedback, not unwarranted or completely off-base criticism.

BTW--my company hires temps to full-time positions all the time, and a lot of big companies do hire temps or contractors before offering them full-time positions. It's a great way for you and the employer to take a test-drive before committing. Good luck in the job search!
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EmpathyBoy
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« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2012, 08:49:17 PM »

How do I deal with it?  I don't tell her anything about my career until it's a done deal...The point is I didn't have to deal with the drama during the most stressful parts - the application, interview, and wait for the word.

Remember, they only have as much ammo to throw at you as you give them.  Are there other folks you can share your career plans with who are more supportive of you?

Thanks for the support!

With my financial situation and the emotional blackmail money I borrowed from my father has created this "we need to know" situation that is intolerable with 3 against 1...and they think they are supportive = criticism.

I tell them nothing...they think I am doing nothing...I tell them anything and I get criticism from 3 directions because I am doing it wrong!

One of the odd tragedies of my life is I am one of the best person around at pitching or selling ideas or especially myself...except to my own family.

The lack of "other folks" problem relates to my hell years when my manager was trying to drop a mountain on me and I did my best atlas impression.  It was an extreme bullying/mobbing situation...even VP's were/are afraid of his power and vindictive nature.(my project was a little too good and "diverted resources"wink )

I got isolated and caught up with the crazy work political warfare and both involuntary and voluntarily detached from people at work and at home.

Plus my area was one of the worst hit economically in 2008 when most of my friend literally ran away to places of better jobs, plus I was the single guy not invited to the couples events and the extended group fell apart after a key divorce.

Beyond the excuses...I have some extended family that might help in a pinch, but I need to rebuild my friend network too.  It's on my list along with leaving this area eventually.
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EmpathyBoy
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« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2012, 09:19:00 PM »

T (therapy) has been amazing, too, at helping me work on silencing my inner critic.

I qualified for 5 free sessions with my first session this Thursday.  I hope the guy is good.
 
Do you live with your parents? That does make it harder to keep the job search stuff quiet, but you have a right to only tell them minimal information. You need support and realistic feedback, not unwarranted or completely off-base criticism.

Thankfully No...and hopefully never again if I can implement my plan quickly enough.  I agree with the minimal and with the other suggestion of telling them AFTER I've done it. 

All 3 are clinically anxious and have convinced themselves that I am messed up...not just currently in a messed up situation.  I am trying to manage my own emotional luggage and cannot drag around their crates right now.

My sister and father's smear campaign over 2-4 year has burned down most if not that entire side of the family.  My aunt might be okay since she was shunned years ago.

BTW--my company hires temps to full-time positions all the time

You hit the nail on the head...temp or contract job can provide quicker employment with lower risk on either side and then my performance can shine and deliver.

I'm an extremely top performer...I won many awards including the 2 top R&D awards in my previous large company before restructuring and some retirements made me vulnerable as my upper level champions disappeared.

Anyone who thinks that "everyone likes a winner" has never really been one before.  If you succeed far beyond expectations and against adversary some purposefully thrown at you...the people who suddenly fear you and decide you are a "threat" to their authority or ego are many of those who shake your hand and gain the kudos too. 

I digressed a bit, but even though it was total baloney...my ego and faith in myself was wounded along with my reputation.  Ironic but true...the cut-throat corporate world was more of a meritocracy then my family and my ruthless boss was more generous then my own father...at  least in the good times.

I will dig down deep, but until I feel stronger...I think I will have to keep the information sharing less with the trio until things are actually done as I would in the past and let them believe whatever baloney they like. 

I can financially survive for at least 1.5-2 months and they are not throwing any more cash my way right now anyways...so it is not like I have to tell them anything...Honor is so easy to twist with FOG as is the hunger for validation at our low points.  The times we most need our networks are when we need to rebuild them!
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EmpathyBoy
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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2012, 10:56:24 AM »

With my financial situation and the emotional blackmail money I borrowed from my father has created this "we need to know" situation that is intolerable with 3 against 1...and they think they are supportive = criticism.

I tell them nothing...they think I am doing nothing...I tell them anything and I get criticism from 3 directions because I am doing it wrong!
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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2012, 11:22:33 AM »

One of the odd tragedies of my life is I am one of the best person around at pitching or selling ideas or especially myself...except to my own family.

Totally normal around here. Always trying to explain things better, thinking that if you can just find the right words you will finally convince them. NEVER going to happen.

Can you just give them some vague info? Like instead of outlining any interesting strategies just tell them things like "I sent out ten resumes and cover letters today" or "I have a job interview next week". If they bash the interview just say something like "beggars can't be choosers lol".

I've been job hunting and this is exactly how I've gone about keeping my parents in the loop... when I'm not avoiding them entirely, anyway.
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« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2012, 05:20:01 PM »

Can you just give them some vague info? Like instead of outlining any interesting strategies just tell them things like "I sent out ten resumes and cover letters today"...

Yes and that's what I will have to do as well and used to do too.  I think I am just more needy for any validation...starving for a cracker...and letting it FOG up my common sense a bit.  None of them has looked for a job in 20-years and my sister never has at all...so they are totally ignorant or naive, but overly opinionated and negative too.

They are unlikely to change just because I or we need them to show some real support for once.  My mother called back later to apologize for being "short" or "cranky"...not for not being supportive or overly critical or negative and not because that was her worry.

Her worry as with the rest of my family is all very egocentric...fear of my reacting to their poor behavior by cutting off contact...I have been using harsh boundary enforcement by just ignoring them when they cross a line for the last couple of years and it appears to be the only thing that has any impact on their behavior.

They still blame me for being too touchy and critical, but they otherwise ignore any logical or emotional reasoning except if it indicates they deserve more of <blank>.

I think merely physically being around more normal people helps me as I can sense their more normal emotional aura which is more balanced and positive than the black holes my family and any BPD or NPD is like.

I think we all need to remind ourselves frequently, but especially at our low points that we are "good enough and smart enough" and only our family doesn't seem to like us!
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« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2012, 05:33:01 PM »

I think I am just more needy for any validation...starving for a cracker...and letting it FOG up my common sense a bit. 

I can really relate to this, EmpathyBoy.  I've had times, too, when I've wanted to have a "normal" mother so badly that I forget I don't have one and give her more information than I should.  It always ends up hurting me in the end and reminding me WHY I have to limit the info I give her.  Even so, wishing for a normal parent and going to a parent for validation are both normal reactions.  It's what we should have had from our parents.

Just wanted to let you know you're not alone.     
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« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2012, 06:02:08 PM »

I can really relate to this, EmpathyBoy.  I've had times, too, when I've wanted to have a "normal" mother so badly that I forget I don't have one and give her more information than I should.  It always ends up hurting me in the end and reminding me WHY I have to limit the info I give her.

Yeah I relate to this too. It's a case of establishing boundaries. It is completely essential for self-care yet so hard to do. I am a committed MC convert yet sometimes details of my life leak out because I so badly want 'normal' and can't help testing the waters.

I live 150 miles from my mother yet talking to her on the phone seems to evoke PTSD symptoms in me and I can't cope with any of her comments on my life right now.

EmpathyBoy if your parents are toxic you are not going to get anything other than toxins oozing out if you prod them. Doesn't matter what you prod them with or how.

   Annie
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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2012, 03:26:06 PM »

I think I am just more needy for any validation...starving for a cracker...and letting it FOG up my common sense a bit. 

I can really relate to this, EmpathyBoy.  I've had times, too, when I've wanted to have a "normal" mother so badly that I forget I don't have one and give her more information than I should.  It always ends up hurting me in the end and reminding me WHY I have to limit the info I give her.  Even so, wishing for a normal parent and going to a parent for validation are both normal reactions.  It's what we should have had from our parents.

Just wanted to let you know you're not alone.     

Thanks irishbear99!

Right now I am somewhat caught in a situation where they are turning my financial troubles and the help my father provided into an open invitation to demand more information or do emotional dumps...esp. my BPD sister. 

She recently informed me of the tragedy risk that if I lose my condo and all my stuff or if my father helps me move stuff to storage...that it might interfere with her emotional state and cause her to lose her course...on her first degree she is still working on at 42-years old for over 20-years!

A painful 2hr 15m dump this past Tues where she reminded me how important it is that I keep her informed and quickly return her calls so that her fears that my life issues might bother her emotionally! 

Plus they kicked all my stuff out of the house 2 years ago in an excuse to clean up and even if I get evicted...I likely cannot even sleep on my father's couch at my childhood home...nor the guest room formerly my room because it might upset her delicate balance.

You could almost create greek archetypes based on my family!

The need to know information situation is not working out so well so far as their independent and collective fears that I will screw up something that might bother them is off the charts...since now it is based on at least something related to reality. wink
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EmpathyBoy
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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2012, 03:51:14 PM »


Yeah I relate to this too. It's a case of establishing boundaries. It is completely essential for self-care yet so hard to do. I am a committed MC convert yet sometimes details of my life leak out because I so badly want 'normal' and can't help testing the waters.

I live 150 miles from my mother yet talking to her on the phone seems to evoke PTSD symptoms in me and I can't cope with any of her comments on my life right now.

Thanks Annie!

I need to reinforce those boundaries on my mother and family as even without or especially without additional information...they assume I am doing nothing or screwing up.

With my job plans/hunt the most annoying and insulting thing is when my mother or sister (both BPD) more than my father suggest some ridiculously low level job that I should consider as if that is the best I can get or as if I was not budgeting and ensuring I had enough money or even a temp job after the ball is rolling.

My mother did that to me today when I called merely to give her my new home phone number...the old one is a straight to voicemail for my creditors so I can stay focused and eliminate the harrassment/stalking.  Creditors and collection agencies act exactly like PD persons that abuse the phone system as a psychological weapon...should be illegal.

My mother started with, "Now don't get mad at me..." immediately admitting she was knowingly breaking one of the rules I gave her about no suggestions on jobs as it pisses me off.  It was about some elections job...and there were none in my area anyways, but if she had brought it up more normally or casually, "I just read in the paper they might have some short-term jobs in the upcoming election", but everything is emotionally loaded with her...well all of them including NPD father.

Heck even my new counselor (free, no real experience with BPD or NPD AFAIK)...is a tad annoying in wanting me to prove my family being nuts...of course I have some old voice messages, but unless you have experience and expertise with such toxic families...people cannot relate!

I will of course have to reinforce my no job suggestion rule to my mother again, but it really just pissed me off today!

I was in a better mood having come up with a new plan to deal with the unfortunate situation that I likely cannot sell my condo quickly enough to afford taking an out of town job, but I can interview for a few and see what they offer.  In my area if you walk away from your home...you can get zombie debt applied that is not cleared by bankruptcy (dumb update to law that benefits the banks of course).

It's a tough economy and truthfully you do not want to job hop unless you have little choice as it is burning a bridge at least in the salaried type of positions. 

I cannot understand how the three of them can still have total blinders and give my sister the benefit of the doubt...the golden child...42 years old who has never had a real job or a single degree after being in university/college continuously since she was 19 years old (w/ 1 year break).  She has sucked tons of money of both parents all our life and still is draining my father dry and will likely get all his money when he dies.

I am okay with that...except why do they treat or think I am such an f-up after getting every single job on my own since I was 16-years old including having positions created for me as merely an engineering student with a lot of gumption as well as skills to turn a FOAD letter "No" into a yes and winning numerous awards and a patent...yes...I better settle for a job at the Kwik-E-Mart and kiss Apu's ass as I will be  lucky to get it.

It appears that zero amount of outside reality has any bearing on the delusions and denigration by such people...or it serves some purpose to drag me down so they will get my full attention...to be their mirror or slave again and give up having a life!

The worst part of being stuck with this Condo and having to take a local job for 1-2 years is I cannot get that 150 mile or more buffer zone.  When I went to university...without knowing the cause...I knew what to do...it was 6-6.5 hours away...and my family lamented on how that meant they could not come up easily for a weekend or same day trip...well duh! wink

I just need to strap on my Rocky steel plated jock strap and punch it through and tell them as little as I can and blow off steam after another kick in the gut.  Truth is almost no one can negatively impact my self esteem...except my family when I am weak and my boundaries are lower!
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EmpathyBoy
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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2012, 05:53:49 PM »



Thanks Annie!

I need to reinforce those boundaries on my mother and family as even without or especially without additional information...they assume I am doing nothing or screwing up.

With my job plans/hunt the most annoying and insulting thing is when my mother or sister (both BPD) more than my father suggest some ridiculously low level job that I should consider as if that is the best I can get or as if I was not budgeting and ensuring I had enough money or even a temp job after the ball is rolling.

 

I cut off all contact except my phone because of this passive aggressive nonsense.  I've had the same job for 20 years and been accomplished enough to work all over the country in the toughest markets in my field.  I've been taking time off for therapy (and it's payed off handsomely) but I've run up bills as I've suffered dissociation on and off for years.  That was the biggest reason to go hard in therapy--I was missing too much work.  My gig pays well and once I can go back full time I'll be fine. 

In the meantime my mother has, for YEARS, been sending me emails about colleges and bullsh*t entry level jobs.  They always suggest that even if I don't need them I can pass them along.  I've told her, clearly, not to keep sending them and she's ignored me.  So her email address has been blocked.  Her refusal to accept my boundary tells me loud and clear it's meant as a dig and an insult--I've gone to college and worked as a mental health substance abuse counselor.  Why the f*ck would I need a lead on a job at Home Depot?

I stopped visiting her because the entire visit she talks to me in a sing song fake concern voice about how I really need to quit my job because clearly it's not working.  I respond--the trauma from years of abuse is what's  not working, the job is fantastic.  It's been my lifeline when she has left me for dead.  Literally.  I had a neighbor stalking me and she told me I might have to go live in a shelter rather than offer her home or money to get another place immediately.  Without that job I'd be screwed. 

Anything to get the digs in, man.   
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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2012, 06:02:52 PM »



I cannot understand how the three of them can still have total blinders and give my sister the benefit of the doubt...the golden child...42 years old who has never had a real job or a single degree after being in university/college continuously since she was 19 years old (w/ 1 year break).  She has sucked tons of money of both parents all our life and still is draining my father dry and will likely get all his money when he dies.

I am okay with that...except why do they treat or think I am such an f-up after getting every single job on my own since I was 16-years old including having positions created for me as merely an engineering student with a lot of gumption as well as skills to turn a FOAD letter "No" into a yes and winning numerous awards and a patent...yes...I better settle for a job at the Kwik-E-Mart and kiss Apu's ass as I will be  lucky to get it.

It appears that zero amount of outside reality has any bearing on the delusions and denigration by such people...or it serves some purpose to drag me down so they will get my full attention...to be their mirror or slave again and give up having a life!

The worst part of being stuck with this Condo and having to take a local job for 1-2 years is I cannot get that 150 mile or more buffer zone.  When I went to university...without knowing the cause...I knew what to do...it was 6-6.5 hours away...and my family lamented on how that meant they could not come up easily for a weekend or same day trip...well duh! wink

I just need to strap on my Rocky steel plated jock strap and punch it through and tell them as little as I can and blow off steam after another kick in the gut.  Truth is almost no one can negatively impact my self esteem...except my family when I am weak and my boundaries are lower!

I think you would benefit from creating new bonds with new family surrogates.  A wise woman, a wise man, no matter the age, may have a lot to offer you.  I travel a lot and I cope by staying in homey places and sharing (not too much) with those trustworthy older folks around me.  A bit of sharing here and there helps.  They give good advice, wish you well, sometimes have a great inside connection for you. 

If you accept you family's mental deficiencies instead of going back in denial and desperation and expecting a spontaneous cure, you won't put yourself in this position to be abused over and over again.  You gotta take some responsibility for protecting yourself 'cause they sure as sh*t won't.  You gotta accept it's not a cranky mood they can snap out of.  This hurdle takes sustained professionally facilitated help.  Without that, there's no need to wonder what they'll say and do.  They're gonna say and do exactly what they've been saying and doing.
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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2012, 06:41:05 PM »


I cut off all contact except my phone because of this passive aggressive nonsense...

In the meantime my mother has, for YEARS, been sending me emails about colleges and bullsh*t entry level jobs.  They always suggest that even if I don't need them I can pass them along.  I've told her, clearly, not to keep sending them and she's ignored me.  So her email address has been blocked.  Her refusal to accept my boundary tells me loud and clear it's meant as a dig and an insult--I've gone to college and worked as a mental health substance abuse counselor.  Why the f*ck would I need a lead on a job at Home Depot?
...
Anything to get the digs in, man.   

Thanks Undertowed!   

Ironically the exact place my sister mentioned a week or two ago was Home Depot and I almost lost it by the ridiculous level of insult.  Of course it is no surprise my sister and father decided to pathologize me after doing the no contact thing when they were just making my work politics bullying/mobbing situation worse(esp. stupid calls about nothing at work).

They are just playing emotional hardball and/or a-hole because they think partially correctly I am less likely to tell them to screw off at the moment.

But this predatory action of seemingly purposefully getting in such digs and pissing on any positive action I take seems to be beyond any BPD or NPD excuses...since just like anything else...they do not pull such crap on others.
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« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2012, 06:57:40 PM »


I think you would benefit from creating new bonds with new family surrogates.  A wise woman, a wise man, no matter the age, may have a lot to offer you.  I travel a lot and I cope by staying in homey places and sharing (not too much) with those trustworthy older folks around me.  A bit of sharing here and there helps.  They give good advice, wish you well, sometimes have a great inside connection for you.  

Actually I was doing this with an older woman named Linda who is a University Professor, but we lost touch a bit when my financials went to crap and I could not hang out at the Sushi place anymore.

I realized a bit like that movie Swingers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0PUrNwvvBk my phone calls or re-connection calls were in sounding too needy either in tone and/or words.  I did better and should reconnect this weekend with another friend, but as Billy Joel implies there are times when you have to push through until your second wind comes along.  

It is sad that people have been so poorly conditioned and warped by today's overly narcissistic/psychopathic society and culture that they no longer reach to people or even friends in need...merely because they seem too needy?  This world needs to rebuild it's humanity and communities again, but I think a large crash will have to happen first to wake most people up.

If you accept you family's mental deficiencies instead of going back in denial and desperation and expecting a spontaneous cure, you won't put yourself in this position to be abused over and over again.  You gotta take some responsibility for protecting yourself 'cause they sure as sh*t won't.  You gotta accept it's not a cranky mood they can snap out of.  This hurdle takes sustained professionally facilitated help.  Without that, there's no need to wonder what they'll say and do.  They're gonna say and do exactly what they've been saying and doing.

I am not in denial about it...just saddened, disappointed, lonely and alone.  I will pull myself through it and put up some force fields.  But I am naturally vulnerable right now because of my situation...and forget to keep my guard up on what should be trivial contact situations about trivial information.  You call about a simple phone number update which turns into a very demeaning jab about going and begging for a job...ironically the day I found a pretty good job I think I have a good shot at and maybe some connections too.

The only one I hope for true help in the long run is my sister, but my mother does abide by my boundaries when I harshly enforce them and I just have to do that again.

The book called Emotional Vampires while derogatory does accurately capture what it feels like when that type of PD toxic family member digs into your soul with their fangs and takes a deep drink.

I tried to ask my counsellor last day what or where I should focus on to build or rebuild some non-family support systems or just put it on hold and punch through for now...he was less than helpful, but I think I need to do a bit of both and limit my contact with my family and control the times I talk to them and get my firewall up.
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« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2012, 07:13:15 PM »



Actually I was doing this with an older woman named Linda who is a University Professor, but we lost touch a bit when my financials went to crap and I could not hang out at the Sushi place anymore.

I realized a bit like that movie Swingers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0PUrNwvvBk my phone calls or re-connection calls were in sounding too needy either in tone and/or words.  I did better and should reconnect this weekend with another friend, but as Billy Joel implies there are times when you have to push through until your second wind comes along.  

It is sad that people have been so poorly conditioned and warped by today's overly narcissistic/psychopathic society and culture that they no longer reach to people or even friends in need...merely because they seem too needy?  This world needs to rebuild it's humanity and communities again, but I think a large crash will have to happen first to wake most people up.



 

I tried to ask my counsellor last day what or where I should focus on to build or rebuild some non-family support systems or just put it on hold and punch through for now...he was less than helpful, but I think I need to do a bit of both and limit my contact with my family and control the times I talk to them and get my firewall up.

Yeah, it seems weird to me too how superficial friendships/societies can be.  You've gotta cast a wide net and sometimes you gotta move to a new region to get to a place that's supportive. 

I gotta tell ya' your counselor seems a little out of their depth.  You might benefit from someone better able to meet your needs.
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« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2012, 07:45:38 PM »

Previously I have just banned the subject during my job search and may need to do so again as zero feedback is better than a bunch of negative stuff.  

Sounds like a healthy boundary to me.

I don't think you need to "Rocky" anything up, FWIW. No one should have to put up with hurtful crap like that. FYI, it doesn't mean you're weak when she hurts your feelings--it means you're human.

Sounds like maybe you've had some magical thinking that eventually your mom will be supportive of you and proud of you if only you just XYZ enough...A lot of us have been there. She's not unsupportive because you're not good enough, it's because she just isn't capable of being the mother you need. It hurts, and I'm sorry you're experiencing that. No sense expecting a snake to be a kitten...she is what she is...once you fully accept that and grieve the mother that you wish you had, things get a little easier.

PF
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« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2012, 09:54:34 PM »

Yeah, it seems weird to me too how superficial friendships/societies can be.  You've gotta cast a wide net and sometimes you gotta move to a new region to get to a place that's supportive. 

That was/is my plan, but unfortunately I need to ride out my condo sale locally perhaps for up to a year or more.

I gotta tell ya' your counselor seems a little out of their depth.  You might benefit from someone better able to meet your needs.

Yes...I am pretty disappointed by him as well.  Mind you it is "free" for the first five sessions, but as a famous comedian once said about false bargains, "Two of S__T…is S__T!".

He claimed to have some experience or insight with NPD or BPD, but my impression is that he really has very little of both and he seemingly purposefully provoked me last session and then asked what I was feeling when he challenged my assessment of my family and I wanted to turn the topic back to myself as I cannot change of fix them or expect more than they can give.

I do and did/do have a better REAL qualified therapist with a Masters degree and much experience with such personalities mostly because she dealt with them in work environments. (Corporate world is full of PD's abusing power).  Unfortunately she is a longer drive and cost $60/hr.

He seems of lower experience, expertise, intelligence, speaks English as a second language and has trouble with simple analogies when I am trying to cut to the chase and refocus on the core issues.  Plus he seems to lack or does not show much empathy for either my circumstances or growing up in a family with no true empathy or love except as a mirror.  I know women generally have more empathy, but it seems odd for him to be so cold while telling me it is a "safe place" after purposefully provoking/challenging me to prove my family was toxic instead of focusing on my emotions and coping mechanisms which are a tad worn down at the moment.

No specific details needed, but back in Oct-Nov last year...I was repeatedly harassed by my local police in my home with multiple violations of my rights (Ex. a 3am invasion, faked 911 call)...mostly because of the corruption on the force and their fear I was going to testify against them in some recent lawsuits that forced our Chief to resign last Dec.

I was trying to make the point when I explained it along with my family background to my counsellor that I have been bullied multiple times in my life and I stand up for myself and others and am sometimes targeted for that while others cower in fear.

Many areas are having problems with "Cops Gone Wild" and while I was unwilling and/or unable to sue...I fought the bogus ticket and said in the corrupt court that the community would eventually stand up to such abuse and was right...there were 3 lawsuits by end of last year.

It wasn't tactically bright, but I was injured(concussion, bruised ribs, etc.) and they were covering it up and it was not too long after my work political bullying/mobbing setup that had me leave my last position...and I felt someone needed to have some guts to stand up.

I will likely go back to my main therapist who knows the full history after I solve my work and income situation, but as you said...he just seems out of his depth in this regard and is overwhelmed in multiple ways and thus not being very good or much help.

Sorry for excess rant, but I have a bit of bottled up anger to being jerked around, poked, messed with or having my time wasted!
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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2012, 10:07:55 PM »

Previously I have just banned the subject during my job search and may need to do so again as zero feedback is better than a bunch of negative stuff.  

Sounds like a healthy boundary to me.

Thanks for the validation...I will reiterate that too her again.  My previous professional therapist also agreed it was a good boundary that I need to reinforce even if that means I tell her that I will hang up if she brings up the topic.  My mother needs things even more black and white boundaries because of her brain damage along with BPD...and she does forget too, but her warning indicated she was purposefully crossing a line without any legit excuses as there are none for a boundary.


I don't think you need to "Rocky" anything up, FWIW. No one should have to put up with hurtful crap like that. FYI, it doesn't mean you're weak when she hurts your feelings--it means you're human.

I can partially keep a buffer, but right now they have leverage and like any other manipulator are using it.  If I could walk away right now it would be different, but sometimes you do have to push through a barrier or a gauntlet a bit in life to get what you need and where you need to be to not have to put up with such crap.

I will be reaching out to my work related network at least, but a combination of some circumstances beyond my control plus my situation the previous 5-years enabled the breakdown of my non-family or friend support network too.

Sounds like maybe you've had some magical thinking that eventually your mom will be supportive of you and proud of you if only you just XYZ enough...No sense expecting a snake to be a kitten...she is what she is...once you fully accept that and grieve the mother that you wish you had, things get a little easier.
PF

I think that is true...because I want my family...any of them to have empathy, conscience, caring or consideration in my time of need...does lead me to magically want them to be the positive or even semi-normal they are not...snake is a good analogy as you handle them far differently especially when venomous!

Rocky can have many good connotations too...finding power, hope and spirit within to carry one through because we know we are good enough, strong enough...and many normal people like us just fine!
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2012, 11:18:17 PM »


I gotta tell ya' your counselor seems a little out of their depth.  You might benefit from someone better able to meet your needs.

Yes...I am pretty disappointed by him as well.  Mind you it is "free" for the first five sessions, but as a famous comedian once said about false bargains, "Two of S__T…is S__T!".

He claimed to have some experience or insight with NPD or BPD, but my impression is that he really has very little of both and he seemingly purposefully provoked me last session and then asked what I was feeling when he challenged my assessment of my family and I wanted to turn the topic back to myself as I cannot change of fix them or expect more than they can give.

 

He seems of lower experience, expertise, intelligence, speaks English as a second language and has trouble with simple analogies when I am trying to cut to the chase and refocus on the core issues.  Plus he seems to lack or does not show much empathy for either my circumstances or growing up in a family with no true empathy or love except as a mirror.  I know women generally have more empathy, but it seems odd for him to be so cold while telling me it is a "safe place" after purposefully provoking/challenging me to prove my family was toxic instead of focusing on my emotions and coping mechanisms which are a tad worn down at the moment.

 


Yeah that dude may be in the business for all the wrong reasons.  It's like pedophile priests who say they're concerned but they spend all of their time attacking.  Worst case scenario he could be an NPD guy who likes to wind up  people in need to feel good at their expense.  The high functioning ones LOVE jobs like that and law enforcement BTW.  Jus sayin'  shocked  Check it out.

http://lightshouse.org/lights-blog/narcissists-in-power
"While of course, many people in these positions are not narcissistic, many narcissistic people are in these positions. These roles offer plenty of power over others, and lots of narcissistic supply for pretending to be a leader, an authority, or a rescuer.

Unfortunately, narcissists in these occupations and pastimes are often not actually providing what they’re supposed to be providing — real protection, assistance, and leadership. They’re just there for the power. While their non-narcissistic coworkers work to the benefit of those they intend to serve, the narcissist is doing little more than enjoying the associated power and scouring their work environment for sources of narcissistic supply, manipulating, devaluing, gaslighting and shirking responsibility for the games they play."
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« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2012, 11:28:16 PM »



No specific details needed, but back in Oct-Nov last year...I was repeatedly harassed by my local police in my home with multiple violations of my rights (Ex. a 3am invasion, faked 911 call)...mostly because of the corruption on the force and their fear I was going to testify against them in some recent lawsuits that forced our Chief to resign last Dec.

I was trying to make the point when I explained it along with my family background to my counsellor that I have been bullied multiple times in my life and I stand up for myself and others and am sometimes targeted for that while others cower in fear.

Many areas are having problems with "Cops Gone Wild" and while I was unwilling and/or unable to sue...I fought the bogus ticket and said in the corrupt court that the community would eventually stand up to such abuse and was right...there were 3 lawsuits by end of last year.

 

Sorry for excess rant, but I have a bit of bottled up anger to being jerked around, poked, messed with or having my time wasted!


THANK YOU for standing up for the rest of us!  It takes some serious guts to do that especially in a small town where law enforcement has an unusually high level of power!          You are freakin' amazing and a hero for that.  I hope you get outta there soon.

I know how you must be feeling right now because I've experienced my life blowing up a few times.  Job issues, relationship issues, and FOO issues simultaneously are incredibly draining and frustrating.   Please keep writing.  It is not an intrusion or anything like that.  We are soooo with you and want you to get over this hump to the other brighter side!      And her's a snowman for ya' just 'cause you're a cool customer. snowman
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« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2012, 04:47:15 AM »

Previously I have just banned the subject during my job search and may need to do so again as zero feedback is better than a bunch of negative stuff.  

One thing that occurs to me is that it is not always possible to enforce bans on topics with PD'ed people, as some of them seem to have a compulsion to raise subjects that leave us on the backfoot.

I think that is probably why some Adult Children give up on enforcing conversational boundaries altogether and go No Contact.

   Annie
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« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2012, 01:00:38 PM »

^^^^^I agree.   I'd go so far to say that as soon as a PD finds a subject or behavior that gets your goat, they frantically go back to it again and again like an addict trying to get a fix.  It's like the experiment where little mouse pushes the lever frantically for a pellet- they push until they get the reaction.

In my case my BPD NPD HPDmother was never homophobic before in her speech or anything else.   We say gay themed movies, I had gay friends.  Once I came out as bi and moved in with my exgf she started ramping up the hate speech/jokes.  She did it so much that she had mass e-mailings with me and people in her office attached (people I have never met) circulating these jokes!  She tarnished her rep at work because of that but still wouldn't stop.
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« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2012, 05:47:44 PM »


Yeah that dude may be in the business for all the wrong reasons.  It's like pedophile priests who say they're concerned but they spend all of their time attacking.  Worst case scenario he could be an NPD guy who likes to wind up  people in need to feel good at their expense.  The high functioning ones LOVE jobs like that and law enforcement BTW.  Jus sayin'  shocked  Check it out.

http://lightshouse.org/lights-blog/narcissists-in-power

I am not entirely sure what his deal is, but I have had a good therapist before and know what they are supposed to do...you are supposed to validated and do active listening emotionally...not purposefully provoke an obviously tender area to get a rise out of someone.

He is either an "NPD guy" who gets his supply by emotionally provoking his "patients" and has fun telling them how they are wrong or messed up...or he is just poorly trained, lacks experience, expertise and intelligence for his job.

I am going to fire him at the end of next session anyways, but I will go in with my shields up and this time see how he acts and reacts.  It is always a red flag when someone's words contradicts their actions.  He claimed it was a "safe place" after purposefully attacking my credibility and an emotional sore spot in my toxic family that I cannot change.

Just as my father as an NPD bully has more sympathy for the bullies I have had to deal with then he does for me...this guy seems to have his priorities messed up in supposedly "helping me". 

I did not provide him any real details on anything on purpose and to be concise and his interest in details in areas I am not focused on discussing seems highly questionable.  His last advice to me seemed a step backwards and not forwards...so there are many red flags around.

The last thing any PD's like are people that can identify them in general.  I should know better...any positions of authority or power you will find them...especially if they can manipulate people.  I was getting an odd vibe from him and could not tell why previously...I will know next time and dump him either way as he is not helping at all!
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« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2012, 06:35:24 PM »

THANK YOU for standing up for the rest of us!  It takes some serious guts to do that especially in a small town where law enforcement has an unusually high level of power!          You are freakin' amazing and a hero for that.  I hope you get outta there soon.

You are welcome!  Someone needs to stand up to such baloney!

The whole thing was nuts when they were invading my home...they twisted every law they could.  The only thing these jerks fear IMHO is Video/YouTube.

I wasn't ready the first time, but increasingly setup a perimeter both visible and hidden which was on display on their last 3am visit back in Nov2011. (knock on wood)

I am trying to sell my place now...I have many reasons to leave building and town too.  Apparently other people in my building has been buzzed by these fake 911 calls...always after the bars close 2am-5am...what are the odds;)

I know how you must be feeling right now because I've experienced my life blowing up a few times.  Job issues, relationship issues, and FOO issues simultaneously are incredibly draining and frustrating.   Please keep writing.  It is not an intrusion or anything like that.  We are soooo with you and want you to get over this hump to the other brighter side!      And her's a snowman for ya' just 'cause you're a cool customer. snowman

I am not sure what "FOO" stands for, but yes...multiple things imploding or exploding at the same time sucks badly and who is my family support...three emotional vampires...who blame the victim when the blood runs dry! lol wink 

I still believe in me and have a revised plan I am implementing and despite my father's tantrum today...I will try to keep them to weekly milestone updates on stuff already done to keep myself positive and focused!

I am adopting a more Buddhist view of life in general...slowly, but that is part of the plan.  My logical brain now accepts how many of these situations have actually been trials to make me stronger and more in touch with the tribulations of the average person and below in society who have been dumped on like this regularly for the "crime" of being poor or black or similar.

Some of the bullying or blowback in my life could have been easily avoided, while others were near impossible to avoid or a partially odd coincidence.  It was random luck the police decided to pick on me except for my being alone that night.  Or in the more Buddhist view...it was karma to create greater empathy and understanding in me for those who are abused by power frequently, but who are not only afraid...often fairly easily discredited when they complain or testify. (Drug Dealers, poor, mentally ill, homeless, etc.)

My emotional side has not caught up to my brain yet, but I am trying hard to push myself through to get there.  I now know this is a trial to make me into a stronger person and better leader to aid in the troubled times ahead...but walking the path is always harder than merely knowing the path!
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« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2012, 06:54:29 PM »

FOO is family of origin.  I hate to call them your family since they are not acting like real family so I give them the FOO instead!  grin
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« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2012, 07:27:39 PM »

One thing that occurs to me is that it is not always possible to enforce bans on topics with PD'ed people, as some of them seem to have a compulsion to raise subjects that leave us on the backfoot.

Thanks Annie!

I agree...they definitely have a compulsion in many areas to push buttons amongst other things too...even more normal humans are lured by those things banned or taboo, but for a PD person such hard boundaries are likely pathologically tantalizing...as they struggle with their control, abandonment and/or being given full attention/worship...nothing should be denied to them.

The only way otherwise is to deny them information in general areas in manner in which they are not aware of any specifics.  I have done this in the past as my sister commented to me being typically very "private" about my job, money, personal or dating life.  Well duh!

In this case it is a minor paradox since until I have a new job they know I do not have one and thus any aspect is open to their inquiries which would of course lead to criticism, denigration, etc. instead of validation and support regardless of the status, progress or situation in context.

Binary and black/white thinkers only see it as No Job(right now) = Loser/Incompetent.  Mind you it was not like they made much of a deal about my awards and success in the past except to brag to others, but not to validate me very much.

Nothing new here really...just an annoying paradox I must suffer for a few weeks or maybe months...I hope I get karma points for this!
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« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2012, 07:46:43 PM »

^^^^^I agree.   I'd go so far to say that as soon as a PD finds a subject or behavior that gets your goat, they frantically go back to it again and again like an addict trying to get a fix.  It's like the experiment where little mouse pushes the lever frantically for a pellet- they push until they get the reaction.

Yes as I stated previously...I think that has a lot or relevance.  These are people who live to get an emotional rise out of others...esp. family...banned topics or sensitive areas are like nicotine to a smoker.

I still must do my best to reinforce the boundaries and let them call me an oversensitive whatever for at least a few weeks as I get the ball rolling.  The suggestions here were very good...tell them after things are done.  I will try a weekly 'milestone' cadence like would be in a work situation...especially when dealing with similar micro-managers.

In my case my BPD NPD HPDmother was never homophobic before in her speech or anything else.   We say gay themed movies, I had gay friends.  Once I came out as bi and moved in with my exgf she started ramping up the hate speech/jokes.  She did it so much that she had mass e-mailings with me and people in her office attached (people I have never met) circulating these jokes!  She tarnished her rep at work because of that but still wouldn't stop.

That sounds pretty rough.  My     goes out to you!     

I have always been hetero, but when I learned it was better to keep my personal life private(by high school) long before I knew what label fit my family and especially my mother and her odd BPD rants.  My mother assumed my keeping it private meant something was "wrong" and thus for years gave me both articles and odd or awful comments about "don't be gay" or similar.

Back in the major AIDS scare tactics years in the 80s & 90s she was near pathological and giving me awful articles for which purpose I do not know.  At some point she decided I was straight and then switched to giving me articles about awful and violent rapes of women...sometimes rape-killings...and I have never been violent in my life except to physically defend myself and I thought and asked her WTH? 

I asked her why in either case she thought I would be interested in reading about such things...and begged her to stop.  I never got a good answer, but I can say that after my situation last year with the police she has been doing the same with every legal case or situation in the local paper (which not surprisingly sanitizes the worst of their offenses).

I think there must be some connection between the BPD person's fears or guilt or something and getting caught in these weird loops where they keep purposefully being confrontational and insulting on a particular area as long as it gets a rise out of you or you ignore them or it or something.

Clearly my situation from a sexual orientation perspective does not relate as much, but if you see how much my mother went nuts even when there was no basis...it makes sense they do it when there is some reality to justify them going bonkers on a topic.  I mean in a twisted BPD logic sense...not normal sense.  My mother's extra frontal lobe damage can at times be like BPD on steroids so her actions/reactions may be atypical or worse...depends.
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« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2012, 08:00:11 PM »

FOO is family of origin.  I hate to call them your family since they are not acting like real family so I give them the FOO instead!  grin

I see...I do not know much of the online PD or BPD acronyms yet.

An excellent book is Emotional Vampires by A. Bernstein.  While there are many good books around...his focuses on tactics for defense from most of the Personality Disorders and suggests strategies that work well in most cases by focusing on the common vulnerabilities they prey on.

It reminds me I need to scan read it again, but until I am stabilized financially I just need to maintain boundaries as I can and need to.  While it might seem unfair or inflammatory to call them "Vampires"...he is correct that they seem to drain emotional and even physical energy from people when dealing with them...even with good boundaries.

I think the lower they are on the empathy scale (BPD or NPD are essentially zero) the more draining they are and the higher you are on that scale...either/or the more they drain or the more you feel it!  Whether in family or outside...they target those with the greatest source of positive emotional energy to seemingly drain them dry.

My suggestion is we could call them VOO or Vampires of Origin in some cases...mine especially as I am the only non in my whole family.  I wish they had had a couple more kids...I might have got lucky;)
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« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2012, 11:15:43 AM »

To be more honest about the situation...my faith in myself and humanity itself has been pretty badly shaken.

Many people have gone through a rough patch in life will know that sometimes multiple things go bad clumping around the same time period and that is the times a dysfunctional and/or toxic family really comes back to haunt you!

I read this recently on staying positive during a Long Job Search:
http://www.pongoresume.com/blogPosts/698/10_tips_for_staying_positive_in_a_long_job_search.cfm
...the most apt quote is:
7. Minimize your exposure to "BMWs."
BMWs = Btchers, Moaners, and Whiners! When you're a little fragile emotionally, such negativity will be poisonous to you and your job search.


That would likely include most people's families on here and definitely all of mine.  That is the paradox, but I will just have to put up the boundaries I need to and get some space.

After a few days of quiet...my head is clearing up and I am getting aligned and positive again.  I cannot say I accomplished a lot in the last 3-5 days, but I decided and accepted a lot that should take some bricks off.

I know that my fear has been holding me back after being bullied and beaten down in multiple areas.  I think it is likely that my counselor is actually either an NPD or psychopath...I postponed my session for 2 weeks...and will likely fire him then.

I am not the only person to get tired of dealing with PD people both personally and professionally, but they seem to have a grip on much of society at all levels right now which is troubling, but explains much.

I think once you are better able to detect them and also detect them detecting you...it is both eye opening and dismaying.  I cannot completely avoid the possibility of my former bosses(the bullies/mob) bad mouthing me, but I have so many people who think well of me I need to focus on them.

The hardest part is much like distortion campaigns within our families...corporate psychopaths or NPD's that are "successful" are brutal and talented.  They burned bridges I had into two companies even before I left.  Say a prayer or make a wish for me as I bunker down and attempt to move forward.

The most unfair aspect of it is that in interviews a job candidate should never say anything bad about their former bosses, but contrary to laws or legal agreements...bully bosses or mobs will gladly burn you with made up baloney...whether old or new...to prove they were right!

The facts would prove me correct, but many who think they know these people do not know of their dark side and would find it hard to believe.  My new hope is to work for a direct competitor and deliver success helping beat them as an ultimate win-win!
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« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2012, 12:06:26 PM »


The most unfair aspect of it is that in interviews a job candidate should never say anything bad about their former bosses, but contrary to laws or legal agreements...bully bosses or mobs will gladly burn you with made up baloney...whether old or new...to prove they were right!

The facts would prove me correct, but many who think they know these people do not know of their dark side and would find it hard to believe.  My new hope is to work for a direct competitor and deliver success helping beat them as an ultimate win-win!

That's where networking works wonders.   Do you have good connects from your old job? 

It's funny, this type of situation is precisely why I wanted to work on the paranoia about the world BPDs brainwash into you.  While they preach  on and on about the dangers of trusting anyone but them or the FOO, they're out constantly networking!  Their work habits may be so-so,and they may privately piss a few people off BUT they are winners when it comes to self promotion.   They pump themselves up, ingratiate and dump anyone who can't be brought into their personal cult.  The workplace requires only surface interaction so it's the perfect place to create believers/supporters.  Most people don't want to go below the surface and see anyone's crazy so they willingly put their heads down while PDs go to work!  shocked

Personally, I'm taking a page out of the BPD/NPD book and trying to learn to self promote more!  Regardless of what they say--they are quite confident that they will find people in any setting who will believe their tales.  I want to get that confident and be that effective telling my story--promoting myself for positive ends.  I'm really glad you wrote this.  It helped me make some more mental connections on the subject. 

I'm tired of cowering because the FOO has me so convinced that there's danger all around.  I have to push myself more so I know it's not true and they're preaching fearfulness while practicing arrogance!
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« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2012, 12:16:50 PM »

That's where networking works wonders.   Do you have good connects from your old job? 

Networking is a major part of my plan and I will focus on the positive and most likely gloss over the previous situation with humor unless I really trust the person.  "I wanted to solve problems for <blank> like <blank>, but apparently he did not want me to!" 

I actually created a situation before I left where I went all out to solve a white whale level problem that they figured was impossible...and then when I found a way to succeed despite the games...they pulled the plug or basically bit off their own leg while I offered up the solution freely.

It was public enough that despite the baloney they made up where apparently I went from being incompetent to being some loose cannon trying to take over the world merely by doing my job so well and solving this big problem both technically and politically for them.

Still...even some of the people directly involved believed some of their distortion...because it was easier to believe that there was something wrong with me then my own management sabotaged me from solving there problem...despite the direct evidence and actual events.

They basically burned two bridges for me who were the two partners involved in my project with such baloney.

I will survive and I will get a new job, but from past experience and knowledge...it may be a bit of a battle as these type of people will purposefully try to burn me using their networks just to prove they awful actions as "right".  So I need to out promote them on as vast a scale as I can and out network them too...that's the plan!
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