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Author Topic: Please help -- My UBPDxwife is damagin D7's school life  (Read 801 times)
Breakingfree9
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« on: February 10, 2012, 10:44:02 PM »

I'm in a difficult position. I don't know what to do.

My upbdxw  is trying to pull me into these petty arguments that she is getting into with other Elementary school parents. It's just silly.

I feel like I'm surrounded by teenagers. UBPDxwife's friend posted something to Facebook last September about our D7's Elementary school. This friend pulled her daughter out of the school and had her go to a different Elementary school in the next suburb over. UBPDxwife then responded with nasty things to say about other moms, to which her live-in, unemployed boyfriend Hector replied about one of the other Elementary school mom's "That btch should slapped."

D7, since she is only 7, said to one of the other little girls in her class, "I can't play with you because my mom says you are rude." D7 overhears UBPDxwife's conversations to her family or whichever enabling friend she is talking to. Because she's only 7, she then repeats the things UBPDxwife says. One of the school moms came up to me and said, "Your D7 has been saying, 'My mom says...' to more than one little girl."

I'm so sad.

Since then, D7 has been ostracized from several outside of school activities. Unfortunately, a single dad with a daughter doesn't have much value to other mom's. So, I'm never asked "would your daughter like to do this or would your daughter like to do that?"

The incredibly sad thing is that D7 is being left out because of UBPDxwife's actions. Of course, UBPDxwife says that it is the other parents who are bullying her and bullying D7. UBPDxwif's view of the world will never, ever change. Everyone is out to get her.

Now, D7 and another little girl were left out of the "Talent Show." I tried to run some interference with other parents and even with the school principal to make sure little girls don't get left out because of the actions of parents. Despite my efforts, D7 is being left out.

Now, UBPDxwife is insulting me for D7 being left out. She's has sent me at least 20 text messages tonight about what a terrible father I am and that I'm not sticking up for my daughter and that I should get involved in all this mess to be a good parent. I stick up for D7. I talked to the school principal about it today. I'm not going to tell UBPDxwife this because my I made sure the principal knew that my conversation was in complete confidence.

I don't know what to do. This situation has come about because UBPDxwife can't get along with the other mom's. If one of them tells her "no", she, as usually, gets offended and accuses them of being bullies and backstabbers when UBPDxwife is just as guilty as they are.

I can't take it. I had to power off my phone so that she would stop contacting me. She's upset about this whole thing and she is projecting her anger on to me. I don't need it, want it or deserve it.

I don't know what to do.

A single father with a daughter has no chance in this coven and, unfortunately, my UBPDxwife is the one that stirs the pot the most.
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david
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2012, 09:51:23 AM »

Print the bs from facebook and give it to the principal and the school counselor. The big topic in schools today is bullying and that is what ex is doing on facebook. Let them know you understand that the school is required to do something about bullying.
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Matt
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2012, 10:41:26 AM »

Breakingfree,

I'm a divorced dad too - S13, D15, SD22 and SS34.  I haven't been through something like this - my ex doesn't cause problems like this, though she sometimes makes things difficult in different ways.

I think you have way more power here than you realize.

First, I think you can't fix it all, but you can put yourself forward as a responsible adult, and over time that will help.  Meeting with the principal was a good first step, although I would probably not keep it secret, since you have nothing to be ashamed of.  Continuing to meet with your daughter's teachers and others - if the school has a counselor I would certainly suggest meeting with her - and talking openly with other parents about this issue - all that will help over time.  They will all see you as the  responsible adult, and begin to talk with you not your ex.  (Some of the other moms who like to stir things up too will continue to do that, but the adults who are trying to do what's right won't.)

Also, you can move your focus from your ex's behavior to your daughter's behavior, and help her learn not to repeat what adults say at school.  She needs to understand the bad results that can come from gossiping, but without feeling a lot of blame and shame.

It's a long-term effort - helping your daughter do well but not trying to fix her mom - and it will pay off over the long haul.

Also, it sounds like you are sometimes communicating with your ex by phone and text.  I would suggest e-mail instead.  You can let phone calls go to voice-mail and then decide whether to return them.  You don't need to argue with your ex anymore - it won't do any good - and you don't need to listen to her blame you.  If you do return her calls, and she begins to speak to you  in an inappropriate way, hang up, and don't call her back or pick up if she calls you back.  I learned to do that with my ex and it works - feels awkward at first but now she no longer calls me and starts in - she only calls if it's something appropriate about the kids and needs to be dealt with right away - otherwise we use e-mail.

The reason e-mail is better is because you can take a few minutes to decide whether to respond at all, and you can separate out what's appropriate and only respond to that part, and ignore what's inappropriate.  Also, you have a record, and you can cc: whoever you like, so your ex will understand that her e-mails aren't secret - you will share them with others if you want to, so her behavior will be seen as it is.
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2012, 02:21:51 PM »

I agree with all that Matt and david say, and especially, "I think you have way more power here than you realize."

Work to separate yourself from your ex in people's minds. You don't have to explain or justify what she does. "I'm not her...after all, I divorced her!" Establish an independent relationship with D7 and with other people in the school and community based on your priorities and values. Perhaps volunteer there, and then people can see that you behave differently from ex.
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Matt
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2012, 02:42:06 PM »

I agree with all that Matt and david say, and especially, "I think you have way more power here than you realize."

Work to separate yourself from your ex in people's minds. You don't have to explain or justify what she does. "I'm not her...after all, I divorced her!" Establish an independent relationship with D7 and with other people in the school and community based on your priorities and values. Perhaps volunteer there, and then people can see that you behave differently from ex.

Yeah...let's talk more about this...

We're told to "co-parent" or "parallel parent", and there is lots of information about those concepts here on FtF and elsewhere, and it's well worthwhile learning about those approaches.  If "co-parenting" works, that's the best, but many of us here find that "parallel parenting" is a better model, because it requires less from the other parent, and nudges us to take on more responsibility and not expect from the other parent what more than what they are capable of...

I think taking it even further, what helps me is not thinking of "co-parenting" or "parallel parenting", but just "parenting":  figure out what the child needs from you right now, and provide that.  And if you see the other parent providing for some of the child's needs, great - that can only be positive - but leave behind your ideas of what the other parent "should" do, or any particular split of the responsibility, and just notice what the child needs, and provide it.

In this context, that must mean guidance from you, to help your daughter understand what she can talk about at home, and what is best not to talk about at school;  emotional support, to help her feel good about herself while also seeing the need to change some of her behaviors;  maybe counseling, from the school counselor or elsewhere;  probably some hugs and validation, like doing stuff with her or telling her she's doing great when that's appropriate.  Or whatever else you sense she is needing right now - think about that and maybe talk with other parents (and your friends here) about kids' needs in these situations.

And then there are her needs that are indirect, like she needs for the teachers and students to feel OK about her, and to also provide for her needs, including validation and belonging.  To help her out with those issues, you have to work through others, and build your own presence and credibility with those adults, and collaborate with them.

All of that doesn't get lots of focus when we talk about "parallel parenting" or "co-parenting", because those terms mostly relate to how you deal with the other parent.  If we shift our focus 99% onto the child, and minimize the time we spend dealing with the other parent - but still give appropriate information like if the school sends something to you and you make a copy for Mom - we can do a better job with less stress.

It gets easier!
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JustSaying
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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2012, 03:00:18 PM »

My mom was always negative about other families, thinking they're always up to no good. So I grew up like that because I didn't know any different. And then I went to college and saw for myself that her perceptions of the world didn't apply and her paranoia or whatever it was probably came from her own parent.

If the cycle is going to be broken, breakingfree, it'll have to be by you or else D7 may always be like what you are worried she is becoming. Your time to show her there's another way to be, to interact with the world, is now. Don't engage in mama's dramas. Correct D when she gossips or speaks ill of other people. She may be confused at first by the difference between mom and dad's rules, but that becomes a teachable moment for you and her.

I had to directly address some of the things my daughter's mom did and make it clear that that wasn't tolerable. But I addressed the behaviors and not her mom. "D, when you're upset, I don't want you to yell. Speak to me in your classroom voice." Over time, if you're consistent and insistent, the kids should be able to see that one behavior is being contrasted with another, and make a good choice for themselves.

It also helps if they are around other adults who reinforce the same rules/values as you do. My D was around coaches who insisted on proper behavior, and family that did, and friends' parents. That meant something like a dozen or two dozen adults modeling behavior on one side, and her mom all alone modeling a different behavior. Those are good odds.
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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2012, 03:13:26 PM »

I had to directly address some of the things my daughter's mom did and make it clear that that wasn't tolerable. But I addressed the behaviors and not her mom. "D, when you're upset, I don't want you to yell. Speak to me in your classroom voice." Over time, if you're consistent and insistent, the kids should be able to see that one behavior is being contrasted with another, and make a good choice for themselves.

Really important point, and it was hard for me (and I think many here), because we're so caught up in the conflict with the other parent, that it's hard to set that aside, and focus on the child's needs...

For us, the hardest one was blaming.  When something goes wrong, my kids (S8 and D10 when we separated) would instantly say, "It's not my fault!" and "It's his fault not mine!".  It was a reaction, like kicking when the doctor hits your knee with that little hammer thing.

I had to make that a huge focus for a long time.  First, make sure I'm not doing that same thing - check my language to make sure I'm focused on solutions not blame.  (Sometimes the solution is a change in behavior - "In the future I want you to do X." - but not "This is your fault."  Always looking forward.)  Then when I was sure I wan't setting a bad example, I had to point out the behavior every time - "Let's not focus on blaming, let's talk about what we can do now to fix it, and how we can keep it from happening again."  I had to stay on that theme - probably a few times a week for a year or more, then less often - probably took three or four years to get completely past that knee-jerk reaction and end the pattern of blaming and shaming.

Since your daughter is a little younger, that should help, but if she spends a lot of time with her mom that will make it harder.  But I think JS is exactly right:  if you and other adults model the behavior you want, and you gently and consistently give your daughter feedback - mostly about what you do want not what you don't - while also consistently reinforcing that you love her and that she is a good person - over time, that will work.  But it takes how long it takes - it will be years not weeks or months - and I don't know any shortcuts that won't do more harm than good.  (Like if you make it a big huge deal, with serious punishments for subtle behavior issues, that may do more harm than good I think.)

As I say, it will get easier, but it's a marathon not a sprint...
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Breakingfree9
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2012, 05:25:53 PM »

I sent my T an e-mail last night that I thought my uBPDxw was going to try to transfer D7 to another school.

Less than 15 hours later, I get a text message, "I'm considering transferring D7 to another school in the Fall".

I'm absolutely 100% against this. I live five blocks from the current school.

I did not respond to the text message, however I'm not sure how to move forward with a uBPDxw who has her mind made up.

If I say "no", it is a trigger for her aggression. It also puts me in the perfect no-win situation that uBPDxw wants me to be in. If something were to ever go wrong in this current school, she gets to say, "it's your fault."

(by the way, it was HER idea to have her in this school in the 1st place.)
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2012, 06:16:52 PM »

This is a fairly common thing here - using the choice of school as a battleground.

I'm sorry but I don't remember your custody situation - legal custody and residential custody?

Usually, if there is shared custody (which is the case most of the time) then decisions like this must be made by both parents, and neither parent can change the child's school unless they both agree;  or she could take you to court over it and let the judge decide.

In most cases, the key issue is how your daughter is doing in her current school, and whether she would probably do better in the other school.  The "burden of proof" may be on the parent who wants to disrupt things;  if your ex can't show a really good reason for the change, the court will probably side with you.

I wouldn't be afraid of the issue.  Just make sure you communicate only practical stuff about what's best for your daughter, and that you communicate it all through your lawyer, or by e-mail, so there is a record.  "I think you made a good choice with this school and it's a good fit for her, so I would not be in favor of such a disruptive change.  But if there are good reasons why you think it would be best, please let me know and we can figure out what is best for her."  Not confrontational, open, focused on what is best for your daughter.  But no need to agree to something you don't agree with.

If she does take you to court, you can file a response which is the status quo - "Let's keep it as it is" - or you can up the ante - "Same school and more time with Dad".  The latter is sometimes best, so you aren't on the defensive;  if every time she takes you to court, she loses something, that may reduce the conflict.
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JustSaying
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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2012, 07:03:02 PM »

Quote
If I say "no", it is a trigger for her aggression. It also puts me in the perfect no-win situation that uBPDxw wants me to be in. If something were to ever go wrong in this current school, she gets to say, "it's your fault."

Actually puts you more in a win situation. She's going to blame you anyway, so why not let it be for doing what you think is right? And if you avoid saying "no" just be/c it triggers her, then you are just training her to be aggressive, since she sees that as the way to get what she wants.
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« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2012, 09:37:43 AM »

Just stay on top of the situation is my advice, as far as the school change goes.

My SO's uBPD/NPDstbxw approached him last March about putting the child in a private school. He didn't feel it necessary and told her so. No further word until July, when she brought it up again. He again said he didn't feel it necessary, that the child could do better in public school with a good plan for helping him get his homework done and that they were in a good district. She shot down all of his arguments and then went quiet.

Turns out that behind his back, she took the child for a tour, completed the admission paperwork and got him accepted. She then brought it to the lawyers (they are in the middle of a custody battle) and said she could pay all of the tuition.  His attorney convinced him he would look bad if he refused since she was offering to pay and why wouldn't he want his child in such a well-respected private school (S12 had trouble getting his homework done in public school)?

His biggest concern was that she would use this to control everything related to his education and that proved to be very true. He has had to fight tooth and nail with this private school to have equal parenting rights, because, as it turns out, "contract law" supersedes "family law" and she is the one who signed the contract. They have every right to go to her for all decisions and initially, they defended this right (even though, IMO, ethically it's in the child's best interest to include his father) until he brought lawyers in. Now he is informed of all decisions to be made, but she gets to make them with the school. At least now he can prove to the court whether or not she includes him in those decisions, since she is supposed to under family law with their joint custody.

Oy. What a nightmare it has been. In retrospect, he should have very loudly expressed his concerns and fought the change in schools. He consulted with another attorney who was flabbergasted that the court agreed to a transfer of schools in the middle of a custody battle.

Be very, very assertive about this. That's my advice.
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Breakingfree9
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2012, 10:33:08 AM »

We have shared custody. D7 is at my house 5 out of 14 nights. I wish it were more.

My D7 does very well in school. Like many elementary schools, she doesn't get "grades" rather "ratings" as to whether she is on pace for her grade level. She is at or above satisfactory on all counts.

I like the idea of it being part of a negotiation. If she wants to get a lawyer involved, I will, too. Her position will be to get me to allow a change of school. My position will be 50-50 custody and burden of proof for changing schools. She doesn't have much because my daughter is doing well. My daughter has been left out of school activities, but, honestly, part of the reason is because the other moms don't want to deal with uBPDxw.

I read these responses and I think, "Yeah, well, these people have never tried to deal with my BPD."

I fully expect her to set up a situation in which to prove herself right. She always tries such a thing -- sabotaging a situation to prove her point. My great fear is that she will begin sabotaging D7's education in order to prove that I was wrong by not agreeing to a transfer.

I know all of you know that this occurs.
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Breakingfree9
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« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2012, 10:35:02 AM »

Also, she sent it to me in a text message. I'm considering my first action to be.

"This type of life-changing topic needs to be addressed in a way other than text message. Please document your concerns in an e-mail."

She doesn't like "documentation." She thinks I'm collecting "evidence", which I am.
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JustSaying
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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2012, 11:33:31 AM »

Quote
I read these responses and I think, "Yeah, well, these people have never tried to deal with my BPD."

True, our BPD-others are all unique in the way they interact with us and the world. But there are patterns to the manipulation, and everyone commenting has dealt with significant dysfunction in the parenting of their child. As a general 'lesson' we've learned that assertiveness--either by standing up to other parent or by following your own agenda independent of them--yields better results than the alternative.

The word I'd apply to the way you describe your x's behaviors is bullying. And appeasing a bully never helps.

Quote
This type of life-changing topic needs to be addressed in a way other than text message. Please document your concerns in an e-mail.

I've been more effective by not addressing her actions directly. With my x, that just engages in her conflict, which she likes. If you send this message, my guess is it will start an argument about how to send messages, rather than the real issue, which is D7's education.

What's been most effective for me is to simply not respond to text messages (or phone calls). I'll email back with any relevant response, but it will be short, business-like, and on topic. For example, "D7 is doing well in Parkview Elementary School and I look forward to her continuing there through eighth grade. Her grades are wonderful and she's being well prepared for high school. I will continue to work with the faculty and administration to ensure that her behaviors and social adjustments meet their expectations.." (Or whatever suits your facts.) Now the onus is on her to turn this into a conflict if she chooses, but she'd have to substantiate the problems, etc. And if you only send emails and only emails like this, she'll tire of trying to engage you in battles other ways. I've bored my x this way...no texts, no phone calls, no fighting back, just the emotion-less facts and everything being about the welfare of D. And as for evidence, my experience is that since nothing I write looks like seeking evidence, x lets her guard down and provides it through her crazy responses.
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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2012, 01:29:08 PM »

Yeah, my experience with these communications issues - text vs. phone vs. e-mail, and how to write them - is along the same lines as JS's.

Some guidelines - kind of like "tribal knowledge" around here:
* 3 sentences max
* Communicate no emotions, and don't respond to emotions from the other party
* Only about the kids, and practical matters - no philosophy or history
* Give information that is appropriate to the other side - like "Today is a snow day so there's no school."  And ask for appropriate information - "What is the name and phone number of the doctor who treated D7?".
* Look to end the discussion, not engage in an argument.  (But don't say, "This discussion is ended.")  If you say, "I will pick D7 up at noon Saturday." that doesn't open up a discussion - a sensible response would only be "OK", or no response.  Doesn't work as well if you say, "What time would you like me to pick up D7 Saturday?"

About the legal aspect - how the school decision will be made, and possibly leveraging that into reconsideration of parenting time, like 50/50 rather than 5/14...

Find out how the process works where you live.  It may help to consult a family law attorney, even if you decide not to retain one.  Or you might find out about the process from talking to people at the courthouse.

Where I live, if you share legal custody, it might go something like this:
* Ex has said she wants to change schools, so you write an e-mail something like what JS wrote - "D7 is doing well..."
* Ex may respond by e-mail and you can read what she says and decide how to proceed;  maybe just, "As I said, D7 is doing well so I think it will be best to leave her at her current school."
* Ex may then file a motion with the court, and you will receive a copy of that motion.  You can then decide how to proceed - maybe agree to what she wants, or maybe oppose it, or maybe include some other matters, like parenting time, in your response.

Once you understand how the process works and feel confident about how you will handle it if she files such a motion, you might consider communicating that to her in advance, but you have to be careful about that - probably best to do it face-to-face, with a third party present.

For example, you could say to her, "I'm open to this discussion but I have thought about it and I am convinced it's best for her to stay in her current school.  If you are determined to fight over this, and you file a motion about that, I will respond by opposing that motion and also by asking the court to award me primary residential custody so D7 can spend most of her time in a more stable home.  I'm telling you that so you will know what your options are - either leave well enough alone, or let a judge decide about both the school issue and all other issues related to residential custody."

Seeing that you plan to expand the scope, she may back down and not file the motion about school.

But I wouldn't suggest doing something like that by e-mail, as it could be seen as aggressive by those who don't understand the context.

The key is to understand how things are likely to play out if it goes to court - what cards you are holding.  I think you are probably holding a strong hand, but an objective professional could tell you better than I can.
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« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2012, 05:14:02 PM »

Here are the actions I have taken in the past 12 hours

-E-mailed the school principal requesting a confidential meeting with a school counselor or whomever serves that function at the school.
-"Friended" as many moms of second graders that I could find on FB and unblocked uBPDxw and her live-in, unemployed BF. If they comment on something to another mom, I want to be able to see it.

I have not responded to uBPDxw's text message about transferring schools and, most likely, I will not.

Over the course of the last four years, I have done as was mentioned in previous posts and responded with short, matter-of-fact answers to e-mails. I have slipped on that lately and I'm going to back to only responding to e-mails. The only text messages I will respond to are things that have to do with scheduling and/or pickup.

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« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2012, 06:45:35 PM »

That sounds like a good plan.

My kids' school - there's nobody called a counselor but the vice principal serves that role very well.  So you're right about that - it might be somebody who wears more than one hat.
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« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2012, 08:59:58 AM »

I assume you're documenting everything... Is your daughter seeing a Therapist?  If not, attempt to get one in place.  If the X blocks you, ask the court to intervene.  This time for your D is so critical and helping her through the chaos the X puts through is vital.  The T will be your best ally, if your end goal is to get more time with you D to lessen the X's impact.
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« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2012, 10:10:52 AM »

I assume you're documenting everything... Is your daughter seeing a Therapist?  If not, attempt to get one in place.  If the X blocks you, ask the court to intervene.  This time for your D is so critical and helping her through the chaos the X puts through is vital.  The T will be your best ally, if your end goal is to get more time with you D to lessen the X's impact.

This is a good point!

The way I handled this was, I first talked with the school counselor, who recommended someone - her predecessor in that job, who was now in private practice.  I talked to her first and it was a good fit, so I took the kids to see her about once a month.  I didn't tell their mom but also didn't tell them not to tell her.

After a few months, the counselor asked about their mom, and I asked if she would like to talk to her, and gave the counselor my ex's phone and e-mail.  I'm not sure if she ever contacted her.  Basically my approach was, I'm not going to initiate contact between the counselor and my ex but I won't interfere with it either.  And I'm not going to tell the kids, "Don't tell Momma!".

During our divorce, this subject was raised, and I told exactly what I had done and why.  My wife complained but there wasn't anything to find fault with because I hadn't tried to use the counselor as a pawn in our battle.  The outcome was that my wife was ordered to pay part of the cost of the counselor going forward.

Starting with the school counselor protected me from being accused of shopping for a counselor who would take my side.  And it also got me a very good referral!
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2012, 10:33:07 AM »

In my experience in my area, schools do not try very hard at all to assist the reasonable parent who is not the residential parent (RP) to become the residential parent.

When preparing my divorce case for trial, I asked the school to provide a report to the court of their conflicts with my spouse and the school declined, saying they had worked out their issues with mother who at the time had temporary custody.  They did provide records but they were minimal and standard scholastic data.  I had previously volunteered in class and was aware the kindergarten teacher wouldn't allow mother into the classroom, she was required to wait at the school office.  At least the teacher volunteered to be a witness in court.

As it turned out, on Trial Morning I was greeted at the court house with the news that at last my spouse was ready to settle for Shared Parenting.  The temp order was so favorable to her that she had no incentive to settle during the two year divorce process.  Now she was painted into a corner and the only options that day were trial or settle.  So I took a deep breath and said I'd settle only if I was RP.  She begged to stay RP but I said it was that or else we would start the trial so she agreed.  By the way, my lawyer wasn't much help there, both lawyers insisted RP meant nothing other than which school the child attended.  However, I believed it would take away from her a slight perceptual edge and give it to me.  Afterward, I filed with the school to let son stay in that school for another 3 months to finish the school year.  Sure enough, she caused problems again within 6 weeks and the school gave me 1 day to register son with my school district.

My point is this, if she would have still been RP, they would have done nothing of consequence, she would have been just another problem parent they had no choice but to deal with.  But since I was now RP and in another school district, they promptly booted us out - and sent me a letter documenting their action and reasons.

As I see it, if you can document that mother is the source of the problems at school, that may work in your favor with the court.  Changing schools won't fix that, it will just happen again.  Also, you could contend to the court that changing schools is to put you at a disadvantage, likely you chose that location primarily to be conveniently located near D's school.  Whether it is enough to get the court to change things - well, all we can do is try.
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