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[Think About It...]

So, guess I am back at undecided. I had a few couple of days out of the country and things were going fine. Until I broke NC this morning. I called her. We talked for over an hour. I can see through the BPD and she makes stories on things I did, which I didn't. I tried talking to the protector and got her into the point where I was finally making progress. What I did see was terrifying. Her nephew commited suicide 2 weeks ago. He hanged him just like her father. She claims she lets nobody see herself and the world is bad. Either way, she is showing (even it is was not BPD) all signs of a depression. She said she was the loser  and it started the day she was born.

I put a dilemma saying she would either go to a doctor or I would call her mom. As she did not want to go to a doctor, I did call her. Strange, cold call. I just asked her if she could talk to her daughter as things are really bad. She promised me she would. I hope she did.

My ex finally admitted that she did have (yet) more money problems. But nobody wanted to help her. I know here goes my saviour complex again. I told her I would help if she would get professional help for her issues. I do not know where this will lead to. I am just wondering... Do they ever seek help. She is not my problem anymore she tell me. And it is true. But still, do I let her drown?

[cc2]

So, guess I am back at undecided. I had a few couple of days out of the country and things were going fine. Until I broke NC this morning. I called her. We talked for over an hour. I can see through the BPD and she makes stories on things I did, which I didn't. I tried talking to the protector and got her into the point where I was finally making progress. What I did see was terrifying. Her nephew commited suicide 2 weeks ago. He hanged him just like her father. She claims she lets nobody see herself and the world is bad. Either way, she is showing (even it is was not BPD) all signs of a depression. She said she was the loser  and it started the day she was born.

I put a dilemma saying she would either go to a doctor or I would call her mom. As she did not want to go to a doctor, I did call her. Strange, cold call. I just asked her if she could talk to her daughter as things are really bad. She promised me she would. I hope she did.

My ex finally admitted that she did have (yet) more money problems. But nobody wanted to help her. I know here goes my saviour complex again. I told her I would help if she would get professional help for her issues. I do not know where this will lead to. I am just wondering... Do they ever seek help. She is not my problem anymore she tell me. And it is true. But still, do I let her drown?

[Clearmind]

cc2, there is a difference between support and enabling and handing over money is enabling. She really needs to hit rock bottom before she will seek help. They can say they will seek help, and I experienced this with my SO, however it was always an impulsive thought and we were back on the same mouse wheel.

Are you supporting or enabling?

Use validation, which shows you understand her plight and empathise with it ~ which does not include fixing it for her.

You are aware of your habits cc2 ~ what can you do to look after you now?

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for analyzing and making the decision to either continue working on your relationship or to leave it. If you have already please advance to "L3 Leaving" or the "L4 Staying" board. All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[cc2]

hey Clearmind,

You asked me what I did for myself.
Well, first of all I send the documents she wanted as this was the final thing she could come back for.
Secondly I have send the an email, where I explain that I want to help, but she needs to want to help herself. If not, I am out.

In all honesty, I have been in the depression stage a few years back and I know what it feels like. admitting it to yourself is the hardest part. Now I had someone who kicked me to do so. The only thing I am trying to do is 'kick' her. If she does not respond, I am out. I did everything I could for her. It is up to her now. Is she wants my help, she can get it... Might she be recycling me? Maybe...

But if people were not willing to stand by their BPD'er we would not have a "improving your relationship"section right?

I know this is hurting me somehow, but 1 thing changed. I am not obliged to do it. That I realise. This is to me my last stand.

cc2

[CaptainM]

I know this is hurting me somehow, but 1 thing changed. I am not obliged to do it. That I realise. This is to me my last stand.

You're not obliged to do it...but are you feeling obliged? Do you feel as if you'd be doing her a disservice or letting her down if you didn't bail her out?

I bailed my ex out financially more times than I can count and all it did was allow her access to more money to spend irresponsibly and I stopped her experiencing the consequences of her actions so she never learned or grew, because with me around she never had to.

If she only gets help because she wants your money it's not going to help her, she's just 'checking a box' - as frustrating as it can be, her decision to get help will have to come from within.

On the Staying/Improving boards you'll see lots and lots of discussion about boundaries to protect ourselves, and about supporting and not enabling (as Clearmind posted) - the aim is not to 'stand by' them unconditionally but to work towards a healthy relationship and, most importantly, working on the one element we have total control over...ourselves.

Part of Staying is understanding when you're enabling and learning to try not to give in to the White Knight instincts. Part of me Staying with my ex for those years involved me holding firm boundaries to keep the relationship as equal as possible (so no money or gifts to try to pacify her, and no digging her out of all the messes she constantly got into).

Please, look after yourself, and hopefully she will choose to look after herself too!

[Clearmind]

hey Clearmind,

You asked me what I did for myself.
Well, first of all I send the documents she wanted as this was the final thing she could come back for.
Secondly I have send the an email, where I explain that I want to help, but she needs to want to help herself. If not, I am out.

cc2, fear, obligation and guilt (FOG) are all three very real feelings/thoughts we tend to have in relationships like these. I do commend you for wanting to improve your relationship and processing your own FOG is a huge step towards doing that.

In healing your own FOG, which takes self reflection into you, also means you are making steps towards bettering the relationship. Workshop - US: What it means to be in the “FOG”. In carrying FOG we cannot use the necessary skills, such as validation and SET effectively.

Your quote above cc2, are actions hedging towards Obligation and not steps to looking after you ~ as CaptainM mentioned. We are not accustomed to looking out for us and often feel hazy when asked what we like to do/want/need. Spend some downtime making a list of things you like to do, things you want to do ~ independent of your SO.

What does it mean to take care of yourself?

 

[cc2]

Hi CaptainM

for the money part I did not repeat that. What I did now was trying to make her focus on the fact how she is feeling (I know, hard for BPD) looking at the depression part.

My basic idea is not to give her money to long term solve it, but hopefully make her see that people want to help her on the emotional level. She is refusing money at this time as she claims that it would make her dependent. What I see more and more is the depression popping up. This is to me the main concern. The suicide of her nephew really kicked her back, but she believes she is alone and there is no one out there. Do I feel I need to do it? Difficult question. Somewhere no, somewhere yes. To me, I can do no more than tell her I am willing to help. It is up to her to reach out for it. There is nothing more I can do. I want to stop shouting / explaining to everyone, and then she just puts on the mask and makes me feel like an idiot. So... I told her we could do this without anyone having to know. If she say no, what more can I do? Nothing. I must walk out. I did my part. And yes, it hurts. It hurts to see how she is ruining her life, but in that case, I do not want to see it, so I must leave. Which is what I plan to do. Nothing more, nothing less. Yes, I love part of her... Yes, I hate the part where she is not doing anything about her issues.

Hell, I might have pushed her farther by only addressing it. I do not know. The great unknown. She is welcome in my world if it allows me to keep my world and fix her's. (call me stupid )

CC2

[cc2]

Who am I kidding? Yes I am still in FOG... I tried kidding myself in believing I could deal with this. The mail I send has not been responded and I am aching to hear from her. To hear she is ok or she will take my help.

I do not feel that I owe this to her, but I am so scared she will hurt herself in the end. Yes I feel guilty. As I did not know all this before...

Can somebody please cut off my head, so this stops 

[Clearmind]

cc2, how are you doing emotionally? Really listen to your own body. You have possibly been masking some very real emotions and they are surfacing about now. This is natural, normal and healthy. You are feeling!

I too spent my whole r/s thinking I could 'handle it'. When we separated the guilt and fear was rife. I coudn't handle it - despite my own need to desperately fix him. We cannot fix we can only look out for ourselves. Embracing the reality of BPD is very much a part of the process - regardless whether you stay to improve or not.

I am sorry to hear you want to hear from her. This waiting game we engage in can be devastating and we grieve. Grieving is a process I worked through and its not easy however it does get better. Once we start to acknowledge the reality (which is when the tears start to flow) and move through it we do heal.

Us: The Five Stages of Grieving a Relationship Loss

Please be kind and patient with yourself.

[cc2]

right now I am at my work,, fighting my tears like hell. This bloody valentines crap does not help either. I feel alone and lost. I am trying not to think of her, but every time my minds plays this trick on me. I never ever felt like this before. I usually just move on. Now, I feel as if I want to be near her. I dream off her every night. I literally dreamt I was at her funeral and everybody was just going on like "how could this happen". I feel as if I am fighting a battle with the world to make them understand something is wrong with her. And nobody listens. Nobody sees the reality and claims that I am wrong.

I wished I had a tape of the phone conversation we had. I wished she responded to the depression test I send her. I am just hoping and pressing the freaking F5 button every 15 seconds. I don't have a clue what to do and I know I must let this go... I feel like I am letting her drown while she is the one not reaching for my hands.

I am tired, I do not know how to focus on other things... My own mind is raging on. Would she be at work. I send her a text this morning with just 'happy Vday' and I wonder, did I send it because I want her to know there is someone who cares about her. And then I am frustrated she does not even reply. I want her to think of me and I feel like I am being washed out. But why did she pick up the phone on saturday. Why did she first shout and next showed 'some' emotions. I even got the remark she never learned how to show emotions and she was 'not like me'. And now, I do not know which hole to dive into. I want out. I want someone to hold me and let me cry. I am fighting myself to stand up straight and I miss her. Really, I miss all the small things and I can only think of what I lost. I am struggling to keep things going. Why do I feel so lonely?

And why do I feel that everyone is claiming that I am wrong. Everyone tells me to move on. Still I am so affraid that she will hurt herself. Why would someone be silent for 5 minutes while I hear her crying and finally say, nobody listens to how I feel. I understand my dad and nephew. I wish I was not like them. And here I am screaming out to anyone willing to hear, please do something. Please be there for her. get her to a doctor. Nobody listens. I am all alone in this... I want her to be save. But there is no option to do anything. Nothing legally, nothing with her parents. They were just like "uhu, ok, uhu, right". Why does she hide herself from the world and why does she believe we are all bad.

She bought a car and it drove for about 3 weeks. Now the mechanic is bad. The wife of her nephew is a btch. Nobody is ok. I so hope she will open her eyes. And why do I stand here, now just waiting until it ends.

[Clearmind]

cc2, can you take a walk and let yourself cry?

You very clearly just described the initial stage I went through.

1: SHATTERING - Your relationship is breaking apart. Your hopes and dreams are Shattered. You are devastated, bewildered. You succumb to despair and panic. You feel hopeless and have Suicidal feelings. You feel Symbiotically attached to your lost love, mortally wounded, as if you’ll die without them. You are in Severe pain, Shock, Sorrow. You’ve been Severed from your primary attachment. You’re cut off from your emotional life-line.

Poll: The Five Stages of Abandonment - Susan Anderson, MSW

I posted the description cc2 because what you are feeling is normal. There is nothing wrong with you ~ you are hurting and grieving. Can you check in with a friend?

[cc2]

Hi clearmind

I have not been able to cry, I went out , but something blocks me. I will see my T tonight , which is good. I have go to a friend/collegue and explained how I felt. We will go in a meeting room which is closed, so I can have a bit of time to overcome everything.

I do not know anymore. I came back from my trip, was happy and pleased with the attention I got there, but now, rock down... Why do I miss her? Why do I let this get to my heart? She made me leave by her behaviour and I am still trying to explain and apologize for her...

I recognise what is written down, but how do we manage with it. My T says, let it be... You need to experience it. But this is killing me. I wanted to be so much more and now... I cannot even write it. My mind is so confused and shattered. I feel as if I am always shouting by nobody listens

CC2

[cc2]

just hearing this on my internet radio

Code 64: Every Moment

Maybe we'll meet again some day
Though we chose different ways
I will always remember
The moments we shared
Since the day we parted
I've been asking myself
If this was a mistake
If I should have stayed

I'm sorry if I ran away
I couldn't breathe, I couldn't stay
Now this heartache
Won't go away

Maybe it will feel like yesterday
If we were to meet
Once again
It hurts so much
It drives me insane
If this were to happen one day
I don't know what I would choose to say
I keep asking myself
If I should have stayed



This literally explains how I feel...

[cc2]

where do I belong? Which board? I do not know...
I made the stand that my email was the last thing I would do... it hurts and I do not want to keep looking at her things, but still I do. Do dealing with the pain of leaving them behind, stay in L2 or L3?

[Clearmind]

Where do you need support right now cc2?

[cc2]

I want to leave her alone. I just do not know how... It is so damn hard... I miss her but it has no purpose... I can't stop myself...

[CaptainM]

I want to leave her alone. I just do not know how... It is so damn hard... I miss her but it has no purpose... I can't stop myself...

I know what you're going through, disengaging is a hard process - really hard.

If you need help getting through the end of the relationship then come on over to Leaving: Disengaging from a Partner with BPD - it doesn't have to be a permanent move, but it might help you get the right kind of support whilst you disengage.

Have you got some friends or family around you during this time to help distract and support you? Hobbies help too - I've rediscovered a whole heap of old hobbies since starting my disengagement (it's been a few months for me now).

Look after yourself, I know how hard this time is and the most important person for you to focus on is you.

[OnceConfused]

CC2:

It is normal to feel that attachment to her, as you are going through the grieving process.

Something you need to do:

1. You must let the grieving process take its course. Don't break NC. As you already have experienced, coming back even for a moment, still brings out the attachment in you. It is like scratching hard on a scab. You must learn to step back from the itch and let the scab heal COMPLETELY.

2. Write a letter of good bye to her (you don't sent it, but save only for you to read when you feel the ITCH arises), in which you write down ALL the times that you felt bad or abused by her. You will be surprised how many incidences of abuses that your mind chose to forget.  I did the letter and it helped me see the xBPDgf for who she really was, not the nice parts of her but her TOTALITY. Unfortunately, her totality did not match into my scheme of things.

3. Pickup the local newspaper and check out the listing of local activitivies - wine tasting, classes ... That is how you get rid of the old festered water in the cup , by pouring in new water.

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