Valentine's Day fight

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hi All and Happy Valentine's Day yesterday!

     I've written on here many times before about where things stand between me and my uBPDw for 15 years. After years of throwing myself under the bus, apologizing for things I didn't do, allowing her to rage at me for hours while trying to make it right, explain myself, try to make it work, improving myself, and dancing every time she said to dance, I've given up!
      Two nights ago, she began to rage when she discovered that I was applying for jobs that she didn't feel were respectable enough. (I'm a minister and I'm trying to find a non-church job, anticipating that things might go south). She kept up the yelling and screaming until I said that I've said all I'm going to say on the subject and walked out of the house for 1 1/2 hours (I did tell her that I would be back). After I came home, she was "fine" and later we discussed the issue calmly. Not that this is some kind of game, but for once I felt like I had "won" the battle, simply by not participating and walking away. I some how new it was only a temporary victory!
       Last night was the show down (and not one I started or wanted). It was VD and we had discussed doing our celebration on Friday (when we could get child care). I, like a dummy, decided to blow off getting her anything until Friday. (I know, dumb). To be honest, after hearing her abuse the night before, I just wasn't feeling it and thought that be Friday, we'd be in a better place to celebrate. She decided to give me some chocolates and I was nice to her the whole day. I brought home some lunch, we watched t.v. together, I worked hard with the kids and it seemed to be ok. After the kids went to bed, she decided to launch into a long rage at me, asking me to tell her why I don't love her and why don't I just leave. After 15 years of trying every other single type of communication (including S.E.T., validation, etc) I've learned that my best response is no response. She raged all the more, but it would have been far worse if I'd tried to "communicate" to her. I even did start to very calmly talk to her about what I feel the marriage is lacking and she just railroaded past it and won't listen. So I left (again).
       I came back after an hour at Starbucks and she told me to do the dishes and leave the house again (it was 10 p.m.) because she doesn't like it when I'm there. So I left (again), this time not returning until after midnight. When I came home, she was asleep in bed and I fell asleep on the couch, figuring that's where she'd send me anyway. She woke me up at 4:40 a.m. this morning by turning on the light and yelling, "I hate you! Why are you here!". I didn't respond, but just turned off the light and tried to go back to bed. She then came stomping back in and yelled again and again, saying, "why are you here! This isn't ever going to get better, only worse, so just prepare yourself!", I kept trying to calmly tell her that I wasn't going to try to communicate to her when she's like this and she just kept raging. Finally, she decided to rip the blankets off me and said, "Oh no, I'm not going to allow you to be comfortable!" I asked for the blankets back but she made it known that I would have to fight her for them and I just didn't even try. I told her that I had a right to be able to sleep in peace and she said I didn't have any rights if I was going to act like this! So, again, I tried to go back to sleep, even though she was sitting right there, yelling and staring at me. I tried to put a jacket over me, but that too was ripped off me. She went in the bedroom and shut the door. I came to the door and told her that I was going to need access to my personal things and that withholding them is not ok (and probably illegal). She didn't respond. Then, as I once again tried to fall back to sleep, she came back out yelling to herself, "Gee, I think I need to do some cleaning, where's the water bottle?" It was at this point that I left (it was 5 a.m.) and said I'd be back at 6 a.m. to get the boys ready for the morning.
        The rest of the morning was calm and we said nothing. After she left, I got ready and then wrote a note to her saying that I have a right to be able to sleep in peace and warmth in my own home without being sleep depraved and harrassed, that I had a right to have access to my personal property (clothes, etc), a right to use the shower and bathroom, that my personal property needed to be kept safe. And although I didn't say this to her directly, if she tries to deny me these things again, I will consider it her "kicking me out of the house".

Sooooo, any thoughts?

Coffeeaddict

[coffeeaddict]

Hi All and Happy Valentine's Day yesterday!

     I've written on here many times before about where things stand between me and my uBPDw for 15 years. After years of throwing myself under the bus, apologizing for things I didn't do, allowing her to rage at me for hours while trying to make it right, explain myself, try to make it work, improving myself, and dancing every time she said to dance, I've given up!
      Two nights ago, she began to rage when she discovered that I was applying for jobs that she didn't feel were respectable enough. (I'm a minister and I'm trying to find a non-church job, anticipating that things might go south). She kept up the yelling and screaming until I said that I've said all I'm going to say on the subject and walked out of the house for 1 1/2 hours (I did tell her that I would be back). After I came home, she was "fine" and later we discussed the issue calmly. Not that this is some kind of game, but for once I felt like I had "won" the battle, simply by not participating and walking away. I some how new it was only a temporary victory!
       Last night was the show down (and not one I started or wanted). It was VD and we had discussed doing our celebration on Friday (when we could get child care). I, like a dummy, decided to blow off getting her anything until Friday. (I know, dumb). To be honest, after hearing her abuse the night before, I just wasn't feeling it and thought that be Friday, we'd be in a better place to celebrate. She decided to give me some chocolates and I was nice to her the whole day. I brought home some lunch, we watched t.v. together, I worked hard with the kids and it seemed to be ok. After the kids went to bed, she decided to launch into a long rage at me, asking me to tell her why I don't love her and why don't I just leave. After 15 years of trying every other single type of communication (including S.E.T., validation, etc) I've learned that my best response is no response. She raged all the more, but it would have been far worse if I'd tried to "communicate" to her. I even did start to very calmly talk to her about what I feel the marriage is lacking and she just railroaded past it and won't listen. So I left (again).
       I came back after an hour at Starbucks and she told me to do the dishes and leave the house again (it was 10 p.m.) because she doesn't like it when I'm there. So I left (again), this time not returning until after midnight. When I came home, she was asleep in bed and I fell asleep on the couch, figuring that's where she'd send me anyway. She woke me up at 4:40 a.m. this morning by turning on the light and yelling, "I hate you! Why are you here!". I didn't respond, but just turned off the light and tried to go back to bed. She then came stomping back in and yelled again and again, saying, "why are you here! This isn't ever going to get better, only worse, so just prepare yourself!", I kept trying to calmly tell her that I wasn't going to try to communicate to her when she's like this and she just kept raging. Finally, she decided to rip the blankets off me and said, "Oh no, I'm not going to allow you to be comfortable!" I asked for the blankets back but she made it known that I would have to fight her for them and I just didn't even try. I told her that I had a right to be able to sleep in peace and she said I didn't have any rights if I was going to act like this! So, again, I tried to go back to sleep, even though she was sitting right there, yelling and staring at me. I tried to put a jacket over me, but that too was ripped off me. She went in the bedroom and shut the door. I came to the door and told her that I was going to need access to my personal things and that withholding them is not ok (and probably illegal). She didn't respond. Then, as I once again tried to fall back to sleep, she came back out yelling to herself, "Gee, I think I need to do some cleaning, where's the water bottle?" It was at this point that I left (it was 5 a.m.) and said I'd be back at 6 a.m. to get the boys ready for the morning.
        The rest of the morning was calm and we said nothing. After she left, I got ready and then wrote a note to her saying that I have a right to be able to sleep in peace and warmth in my own home without being sleep depraved and harrassed, that I had a right to have access to my personal property (clothes, etc), a right to use the shower and bathroom, that my personal property needed to be kept safe. And although I didn't say this to her directly, if she tries to deny me these things again, I will consider it her "kicking me out of the house".

Sooooo, any thoughts?

Coffeeaddict

[xeon]

First thought is holy smokes!  You probably should have validated the statement of you not loving her, somehow... and only left if YOU wanted to.  This might as well be a rule... if you're married and together or want to remain that way get the lady something on the DAY.  I definitely wouldn't have left after coming back and her TELLING you to do dishes and then to leave.  It sounds like a nasty snowball that just kept rolling down the hill getting bigger and wrecking as it ran down hill.  Once it gets going its a real mess.   

Reading between the lines... do you have long winded conversations trying to explain things that seem simple to you... i.e. your job search?  I've stopped doing that and it helps... keep it simple and communicate, but long winded stuff... no more. 

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for analyzing and making the decision to either continue working on your relationship or to leave it. If you have already please advance to "L3 Leaving" or the "L4 Staying" board. All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[coffeeaddict]

Xeon,
     First of all, I totally agree about getting her something on the DAY. Not to make excuses, but my emotions and my mind have been so drained, I just didn't have it in me. First time I didn't do something in the total 17 years that we have been a couple.
     I kinda agree about not leaving everytime she tells me to, but I was just so tired of fighting that I didn't want to be around her anyway.
     As far as "long conversations...", we do, but not by my choice. I try to just break it down pretty simply for her, but she interupts so often and questions every single point that what should take 5 min max takes hours. Anymore, I just don't do it. I do my best to communicate and when it turns ugly and crazy, I just stop talking it. Even then, she drags it on and on for an hour, trying to get me to say something, anything that she can then use and attack. Crazy. But yeah, I'm done with that. 15 years of crazy making and I just don't have it in me anymore.

Coffeeaddict

[sandstone]

Oh boy, I too have had the sheets pulled off of me. In fact last night my wife woke me up three times to discuss things, find things or just be a general pain so that I couldn't sleep. Told me that "we need to live seperate lives." I asked for her idea of what that looks like in an email; which as you would have guessed, never arrived. The only thing that works for me is as you do, don't respond. I am trying very hard to not be triggered, explain myself or reasons for doing something while having (unacknowledged) empathy for her. It is very difficult and I often fail but am improving on these strategies. Given the pattern that seems to be a blueprint for BPD/Narrcasistic individuals I would guess your wife will sabotage your date. In most relationships intimacy would be sacred but it seems for BPD/NPD individuals to be a playing field for their hostilities and insecurities. My advice would be to prepare for fireworks.

[OnceConfused]

Coffeeaddict:

Your wife is lunatic and disrepectful. I guess she has a pattern of those in the past, so yelling at you and kicking you out of bed at 4am is considered by her a normal action.

I feel for you.

The only advise  I might share with you is to take about 5 to 10 minutes a day in a quiet place, perhaps going back to the sanctuary of your church. Go there, find a place to sit down comfortably. Begin to focus on your breath by counting 4 for each in and 4 for each out breath. Then once your mind has quiet, repeat the prayer to God (not to make you or her to be the winner or loser) but to ask God to give you simply the CLARITY of the mind to make the right decision for your life. I did it and once the mind became clear, I felt so much of a relief.  I had nothing to fear and I needed to do right things.

Just repeat the simple prayer (God, please give me the clarity to make the right decision for my life and my family), over and over again. Surprisingly you will feel much stronger.

Wayne Dyer said it beautifully:

Prayer is when you talk to God and Intuition is when God talks to you.

You can only hear your intuition or God when your mind and body are at rest.

[xeon]

Xeon,
     First of all, I totally agree about getting her something on the DAY. Not to make excuses, but my emotions and my mind have been so drained, I just didn't have it in me. First time I didn't do something in the total 17 years that we have been a couple.
    

Just wanted to share with you my Valentine's day card debacle... it wasn't gushy enough for her.  I had a hard time finding a card that communicated how I feel inside and I point blank told her that.  That gushy, safe love I had last year before I found out she was stabbing me in the back running around with other dudes... gonna take me a while to get back there... or never with the way she seems to act.

A card like... You're the greatest thing ever... I feel so safe and loved by you, when I close my eyes and think of you I smile and feel a warmth.. yadda yadda yadda... just isn't in me right now, it would be a lie.  Truthfully I'm wounded deeply but still really love her... not many cards for that one.    

[cyrix]

Hey Coffeeadict,

Wow, 15 years. I guess my sorrows do not even compare. But here is something to let you know (as your story told me) that we aint alone in this:

I decided to be home early one day before valentines to surprise her with a cake and flowers. I was made to wait outside the door for 15 minuted and then she slammed the bedroom door while I tried to explain I had dinner plans and apologised for violating her "call me before you come home rule, especially if you are early". She then accused me of disrespecting her time etc and barging in! She left home while I thought she was getting ready. We didn't see each other until 6 hrs later.

Happy Valentines ...yay.

[artman.1]

Coffeeadict,
     Your description of this night and yourv relating all the things she did and said just about blew me away.  I have lived this exact night as you so many times, I cannot count them.  The blankets, the jacket, and all the abuse, WOW!  That is my same story, over and over for many years.  About 12 years ago, My UBPDW even threw a metal Battery Alarm Clock, weighing about 8, or 9 pounds and hit me in the Left temple, just above my ear.  I was passed out for several minutes, and it hurts every time I brush my hair today.  I don't know what she didn to my head, but it is still reminding me every day.  All I can say, is things have been better, after I established boundries, and Limits to protect myself.  If she ever does a violent thing like that again, I will call 911.  I have been married to her for 43+ years, and we raised three sons, all grown now, and I just discovered she is BPD last year, and I am codependent.  I can see you will have some serious choices, and big decisions coming up in the future. 
     What she is doing, is NOT your fault, and you did NOT do it.  She is Mentally Ill to the point of INSANITY.  What would you say to someone in your parrish who came to you for help for the same things?  You don't need to change your life and world because she is mentally Ill.  This is all about her, and not at all about you.  You must learn as much as you can from these boards.  Each board has different lessons about the particular subject of the boards, you need to study all of them.

   I hope god will pave the correct path for you to follow.  Art

[cyrix]

Wow, so I am not the only one who had the alaram clock broken on his head.

[artman.1]

cyrix,
     I wonder what other very similar behaviors these BPD's have.  It is suprising how similar they are.  After reading and studying all about BPD's, I am really shocked at what many of them do, and I can really ubderstand why they are Villified in movies and such.  Some of these INSANE people do extremely harmful and cruel things to their loved ones.  I know they are supposed to not be aware when they act this way, but these postings reveal that they are aware of the pain they are causing.  No wonder they feel guilt, and shame when they do things they cannot stop, and they really hurt the ones they are supposed to love, but I just do not believe they dom love, at least not real love.  I don't even believe my UBPDW loves her sons, our sons, like a normal mother based on the many things she says.

Art

[Clearmind]

    As far as "long conversations...", we do, but not by my choice. I try to just break it down pretty simply for her, but she interupts so often and questions every single point that what should take 5 min max takes hours. Anymore, I just don't do it. I do my best to communicate and when it turns ugly and crazy, I just stop talking it. Even then, she drags it on and on for an hour, trying to get me to say something, anything that she can then use and attack. Crazy. But yeah, I'm done with that. 15 years of crazy making and I just don't have it in me anymore.

Coffeeaddict

Yes you have a choice. Once you get into circular argument territory you both lose. Circular arguments usually happen as both are pushing and neither are listening. Do you see your role here?

Can you give us an example of conversation that have gone 'ugly and crazy'. Have you looked in S.E.T? Once you notice her emotions begin to escalate what do you do?

How to stop circular arguments
Arguing - don't engage