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Author Topic: She's having an emotional affair.  (Read 1315 times)
Vatz
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« on: February 16, 2012, 08:11:38 AM »

It's just as the title says. I have been unhappy with how things are going and I will tell her that I feel mistreated.

Last weekend I was over at her house she was texting someone ALL DAY all weekend. Like some wuss I didn't say anything. It made me uncomfortable and it was rude. We hadn't seen each other in two weeks and there she is texting some guy on her phone-I know it's a guy because I can see the caller-ID photo with the texts (like they have on messengers and stuff.) It was right there to see. Red Flag

Then she calls this guy and tells me "I'll be right back" she NEVER does that. She always stays in the room with me when she's on the phone. When I went to go place something in her room, she was UNDER THE COVERS completely covered. Red Flag  

On top of that she has his photo as the background of her phone. Red Flag  

To make matters worse, she tells me that she will be visiting her sister for her birthday this year.  Casually mentions she'll finally get to meet this guy...and here's where I felt sick...she plans on staying over at his house for a night. Red Flag  


So as you can imagine, I'm angry. I'm infuriated, but worse still is I don't actually know if anything is going on. But these are all red flags I CANNOT ignore. If she's texting the same guy and hiding when she calls him, it doesn't look good. I'm pretty certain she's already having an emotional affair. I wonder if maybe she's already crossed a line and had phone sex with the guy (it seems petty to worry about that but it's a big f*cking deal to me!)

So later today I'm going to call her and confront her about these things. I will tell her that her behavior is suspicious, it's rude and the fact that she didn't even ask me if it was okay to stay over at this dudes house already tells me something. I don't like this one bit and I'm going to let her know about it. It's unfair and it hurts and makes me anxious and I have to actually SAY SOMETHING about it.

Does anyone know how I can go about confronting her on this? When I DO talk about something, I'm blunt and I come off as aggressive (I don't know how to be assertive so it comes out as aggression...at least that's what she tells me.  I'll be some of you are laughing at me taking her words to hear right now.) But yes, does anyone have any tips on how I can go about telling her this? Or should I just be blunt?
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PainOfAge
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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2012, 08:21:19 AM »

Vatz,

Before I say anything let me just remind you that I too am in an abusive and dangerous relationship with a BPD woman.  What is written below is my opinion based only on the post you made here.  Grain of salt, and all that.




The things you describe paint a picture.  It is a picture of a woman who no longer cares about you, and has found a replacement.  It is a picture of a woman who has such a deep seated emotional pain, that she WANTS to rub your nose in it.  You need to see that she WANTS YOU TO HURT.

It doesn't matter why.  It doesn't matter if it was something real or imagined that put her in this state, because she is here now.

If she is staying the night with him, she is going to be ~ing him.  Imagine for a minute that you were this guy, and she was herself.  What would happen in that situation?


Vatz, man, I feel for you so badly right now.  This girl is triangulating (read definition) you, and if you let her she is about to drop an avalanche of pain on you.  She is already PLANNING on sleeping with him, and TELLING YOU about it.  Red Flag  barfy

Protect yourself, friend.  If you call her to confront her, it doesn't matter what tact you use... it will be exactly what she wants.  She is over you, and she just wants to hurt you.  She is going to drive the screws into your temples and see how long you will stay as her faithful slave boy. 


My humble advice is to go NC, right now and forever more.  What she is doing to you is WAY out of bounds in a monogamous relationship.  If you guys have an open relationship that's a whole different story... but based on your words that isn't the case.  As much as you are hurt right now... how are you going to feel when she decides to share the details of her "amazing, earth-shattering, mind blowing" new sex life with you? 
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This board is for analyzing and making the decision to either continue working on your relationship or to leave it. If you have already please advance to "L3 Leaving" or the "L4 Staying" board.
All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)
Vatz
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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2012, 08:27:14 AM »

Here's the problem though...

That weekend she was still really nice and sweet and everything. Besides the texts and everything else she was actually NICE. We didn't fight and she didn't yell at me about anything. She had spent the whole week getting ready for me to come over.  And she didn't totally ignore me physically. We had sex and stuff like that.

It's like there's one side of her that's sweet and fun and caring. The other side that acts very strangely...

It's like I'm dating two separate people!
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PainOfAge
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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2012, 08:39:26 AM »

Here's the problem though...

That weekend she was still really nice and sweet and everything. Besides the texts and everything else she was actually NICE. We didn't fight and she didn't yell at me about anything. She had spent the whole week getting ready for me to come over.  And she didn't totally ignore me physically. We had sex and stuff like that.

It's like there's one side of her that's sweet and fun and caring. The other side that acts very strangely...

It's like I'm dating two separate people!



Yeah, I can understand that.  But it is part of the triangulation (read definition).  Listen, I could be way off here.  I don't think I am or I wouldn't have said anything... but it is possible, I don't know her.

The "two faces" is something we all know pretty well.  I've been married 9 years, and the only reason I lasted this long was because there was a "good side" to her that I always wanted to get back.

But you know what I have come to realize?  Both of those faces are a part of her.  She can't be one or the other, she has to be both.  But not at the same time.  It is maddening, and painful, and confusing.


I know you feel like you are dating two separate people, but if you look at this objectively I think you will see that she really IS dating two separate people...




You can blow me off, Vatz.  I know what I am saying is presumptuous.  I just see something here, and I am trying to help you either prepare for or avoid the pain-train that is coming your way right now.

Let me ask you this... if this was any other girl, and she wanted to spend the night at some guy's house whom you don't know, and whom she is having very private communication with, and whom is the picture on her background ( barfy )... would that be okay with you?

Imagine for a moment that what I am saying is true.  IF it were true, and she was the kind of woman who could and would do that (and rub it in your face), do you think she would be incapable of having sex with you just because?  IF she was that kind of woman, do you think her having sex with you would mean she wouldn't do it with someone else?



I know there are things here you don't want to see, but time will tell the truth.  I sincerely, truly, hope I am wrong.
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WalrusGumboot
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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2012, 08:42:43 AM »

Not only is it an emotional affair about to cross over into a physical affair, but it is in your face.

Think about that for a moment. She is bold enough to do this in front of you, right under your nose.

I understand how your self-esteem might have suffered, but this is a time to salvage what is remaining of your self-respect. Don't merely call her, CONFRONT her. Demand an answer. Expect lies. Be ready to walk.

Good luck.
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Vatz
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2012, 08:50:22 AM »

It's so damn painful but I don't think my situation could ever improve.

I mean look at me. I'm short, I'm poor, I'm just...average looking... every woman will treat me this way. The difference is whether or not they'll tell me. Maybe I'm just not physically good enough for any woman to stay faithful to me. It's like peacocks, I'm the specimen with the bland and unimpressive plumage. Sure I might find a mate, but she'll always run off to someone else because I'm just not really all that great. It's just how human sexuality works. I'm bland, so I must be genetically unimpressive. So of course my mate would happily sneak off some extra-pair action with someone better.

Whether it's with her, or some other woman...it will just be the same. It's biology.

That's the only reason I can imagine for this to be happening.
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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2012, 08:59:27 AM »

Vatz,

One question I have, do you have anything invested beyond her being you girlfriend? Do you have children with this women?

If not run, go NC, 'NOW'. I hate being blunt but when you have a bad feeling in your gut, its probably for a reason and sense you have that gut feeling. Why do I say that, she is already beyond the bounds of anything repsectful as far as the relationship goes and she is showing you and trying to see how much of the crap you will put up with. Like one of the other posters here said, I too hope I am wrong. Fact is mine did almost the exact same thing six month ago, difference is I have children with this women. Otherwise due to the pain she has caused me, she would 'never' see me again.

Good Luck and I feel your pain.  cry

slimmiller
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PainOfAge
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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2012, 09:09:36 AM »

It's so damn painful but I don't think my situation could ever improve.

I mean look at me. I'm short, I'm poor, I'm just...average looking... every woman will treat me this way. The difference is whether or not they'll tell me. Maybe I'm just not physically good enough for any woman to stay faithful to me. It's like peacocks, I'm the specimen with the bland and unimpressive plumage. Sure I might find a mate, but she'll always run off to someone else because I'm just not really all that great. It's just how human sexuality works. I'm bland, so I must be genetically unimpressive. So of course my mate would happily sneak off some extra-pair action with someone better.

Whether it's with her, or some other woman...it will just be the same. It's biology.

That's the only reason I can imagine for this to be happening.



Not only are you completely wrong, but this is probably why you ended up in a relationship with this BPD woman.


Listen... poor is curable.  I was poor.  I lived on the streets as a kid.  You seem like a smart guy (you can tell a lot about someone by their writing), and I seriously doubt you will be poor forever.  EVEN IF YOU ARE, what does it matter?  There are some very wonderful poor people.  Everyone I have ever loved was poor (although many of them improved their condition).

Short and average looking.  And?  Do you really want to be in a relationship with a woman who judges you on things you have no control over, and have no relevance in life?  Those kinds of women aren't worthy of you.


Vatz... men like us who get involved with BPD women usually share some traits.

We are usually emotionally damaged.  We are usually self-sacrificing.  We are usually very loving and understanding.  And we also usually put other people ahead of ourselves.

Good women... real women, want us.  I don't know how old you are... but once you get out of the very early twenties you are going to become a hot commodity.  If you think I am messing with you... go ask some on the "Building your life after BPD" board.  Those are good, sensitive, caring, loving women. 


Quote
Sure I might find a mate, but she'll always run off to someone else because I'm just not really all that great. It's just how human sexuality works.

This is wrong.  This is NOT how human sexuality works.  This is how pubescent boys work.




I am not trying to be mean or rude here Vatz.  Man if I could give you a big hug and buy you a beer I would.  But I also don't feel much like sugar coating this.  You need to get some therapy for your self-image, and you need to get the hell away from the demon who would do this kind of thing to you.

My best friend said to me once... "I hope you know that all of us women aren't crazy psycho btches".
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Alvino
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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2012, 09:19:44 AM »

It's so damn painful but I don't think my situation could ever improve.

I mean look at me. I'm short, I'm poor, I'm just...average looking... every woman will treat me this way. The difference is whether or not they'll tell me.

(...)


Whether it's with her, or some other woman...it will just be the same. It's biology.

That's the only reason I can imagine for this to be happening.

Vatz, I don't think that's true. It rather sounds to me like she has eroded your self-confidence to the point where you are thinking her behavior is "normal" and you somehow deserve it and don't have options.

Believe me, I was there, including having other guys shoved in my face and having her pass her phone number to strangers while I was sitting there, sulking.

You sound like a sensible guy who has been backed into a corner by someone who is alternately punishing you and then throwing you a few crumbs of sweet to keep you around.

I would tell her you are not accepting her staying the night at another man's house - and you should be willing to walk, because I'm sure you can do better than to keep being emotionally tortured by her.

The behavior you describe is absolutely nasty, disrespectful, and she is hurting you on purpose.

Don't put yourself in that position. If you don't have kids, I'd leave now and go NC while you get your thoughts together. She has apparently lost all respect and you won't get it back by pointing out how much her behavior hurts you. On the contrary, I would be willing to bet that is exactly what she wants to hear.

By staying with her, not only are you torturing yourself, you are also depriving a good and caring woman out there of the chance of meeting you and the joy of being together with you in the future.

She's not good for you - take care of you and you will see that you will meet much better women.
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slimmiller
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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2012, 09:26:14 AM »


Quote:

We are usually emotionally damaged.  We are usually self-sacrificing.  We are usually very loving and understanding.  And we also usually put other people ahead of ourselves.

Good women... real women, want us.  I don't know how old you are... but once you get out of the very early twenties you are going to become a hot commodity.  If you think I am messing with you... go ask some on the "Building your life after BPD" board.  Those are good, sensitive, caring, loving women. 

End Quote


Thank You!  I needed to hear that from someone else because its my sentiment exactly. So true and its almost infuriating but true. They pick us out and nurture us into a postion and then torture us because they know they can...sick but true. 'If' she ever changes by you telling her she has to or force her it is not 'for' you but rather to string you along till they want to do it again. The more I learn about it, the more I want to get the Hell away from it
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WalrusGumboot
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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2012, 09:28:23 AM »

Vatz,

Yes, biology plays a role. But the primitive instincts that ruled for millennium for survival don't necessary apply in modern society.

Nearly every woman prefers a man who is confident and comfortable in his own skin. Someone that makes her laugh. What defines an Alpha in modern society is way different than long ago. You don't have to defend your cave from invading tribes anymore.

Here is the stinger. Your gf views you as a submissive, beta male. She is running over you. I don't know if it would even be possible to change that view of you in her eyes. BPD or not, she has no respect for you anymore.

I would just pack it in and go, but leave with one last roar. Start working on yourself, building your confidence and self-image. Height matter less than what you think.

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PDQuick
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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2012, 09:30:43 AM »

Be careful of the reasonings behind your desire to talk to her about this. If your desire is to communicate your dissatisfaction to her, that is ok, but, if you desire to change her, and the situation, you will come up greatly disappointed my friend.

Here are the truths of life. You can't change other people. You can communicate your feelings, and in turn, they may alter their actions, but, in this case, I don't believe that will happen.

In life, we conduct ourselves with consideration to the relationships we have. We are careful not to upset friends, and we are extra considerate in doing anything that may upset our loved ones. This is a preserving aspect. In turn, we will react to anyone who does a perceived injustice to us. We react by either hashing out the problem orally, or, placing sanctions on the relationship to deter the actions that we feel unjust. Sometimes, these sanctions are as severe as removing ourselves from the relationship all together.

That is how emotionally healthy people do it.

A dysfunctional relationship will fight it out, or try to "one up" the other. They will resort to manipulation, lying, and other methods to try to moderate it.

My question to you is, Is this what you really want out of life, and what are you prepared to do about it?
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xeon
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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2012, 09:59:49 AM »

It's so damn painful but I don't think my situation could ever improve.

I mean look at me. I'm short, I'm poor, I'm just...average looking... every woman will treat me this way. The difference is whether or not they'll tell me. Maybe I'm just not physically good enough for any woman to stay faithful to me. It's like peacocks, I'm the specimen with the bland and unimpressive plumage. Sure I might find a mate, but she'll always run off to someone else because I'm just not really all that great. It's just how human sexuality works. I'm bland, so I must be genetically unimpressive. So of course my mate would happily sneak off some extra-pair action with someone better.

Whether it's with her, or some other woman...it will just be the same. It's biology.

That's the only reason I can imagine for this to be happening.
Actually that isn't true... there's someone for everyone... she probably isn't for you.  You need to learn to love yourself and find someone who loves you for being you.  Not trying to be arrogant... but I'm a good looking athletic guy with a single digit body fat, I do yardwork, housework, spend time with my kids, like hanging with friends.. I'm a pretty alright guy!  I know lots of women like me and hear people say gee I wish I had a husband like that... my wife though despises many of those things and finds my "perfectness" some sort of weird flaw.  My wife has had five separate EA's and kissed one of them... or so I've been told. 

It really sounds bad IMO... I've lived that sort of crap.  My wife would give the contact a woman's name or something though and delete all her texts... disgusting.  Here's my guess... you're going to confront her with the facts and how it makes you feel and she's going to blameshift, gaslight and spin things to where you're wondering which way is up.   
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Vatz
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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2012, 11:27:35 AM »

Here's my guess... you're going to confront her with the facts and how it makes you feel and she's going to blameshift, gaslight and spin things to where you're wondering which way is up.   
Sadly, I'm aware that it's probably gonna go that way.  I'll say "It makes me uncomfortable, and after the last incident I have a hard time trusting you with other people."

She would probably reply "I can talk to whoever I want, however I want. If I flirt, it's okay because that's just how I am."

I would probably say "Well, but you realize this is actually hurting me and I feel disrespected."

And she would say "It's not personal, it's not you."

To which I never have a response.

That's a NICER scenario. I can see her telling me that if she felt more comfortable to talk to me about other people, this wouldn't be an issue. Or something that would make me feel guilty.
I guess it just comes down to this:

Talking to this other person, and carrying on as she does has a price.
The price is her SO (me) is hurt, feels disrespected, and uncomfortable.

Knowing the cost and continuing means that my hurt feelings matter less to her than this other person. Ergo, I am less valuable to her than he is.

If I am not valuable to her it means:
My love, affection, care, emotional investment mean to her than flirting with another guy. It means that all of our experiences together-all the things we've done, every moment of affection and caring...when added up...is less than her want to talk to this other person. 

All the things we have been through (Love, caring, my feelings, boundaries, etc.) lets say each have a numerical value that when added up equals Y.  Her want to talk to this guy is X. Y is less than X.

If Y is less than X. It probably means I'm worth less to her than she is to me. I could go on all day about how the inequities spell nothing but trouble and if I were taking this garbage from some dumpy,ugly, boring girl...she'd be so gone it would make her head spin. (Not gonna lie, I'm not a shallow d*uche who only goes for looks, but even I admit it's a factor...it's why I fuss about my own appearance as well.)
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LostinBPDland
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Which way is up?


« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2012, 11:44:09 AM »

Well, all of the responses above should help you get through this.

She is NICE because she feels no pressure.  She knows that if/when you put your foot down she has a safety net.  That's what triangulation (read definition) is for with a BPD person.  She isn't considering you at all.  I know that hurts but I think you would be hard pressed to find a different opinion. 

I know this doesn't address how you feel right now.  YOu need to wrap your arms around it and accept that this is not normal behavior of someone who loves and respects you.  She knows you are willing to take a lot of crap and she has worn down your confidence.  That is a double whammy for a guy, totally get that.  BUT, I think if you used your formula below (XYZ), and Z is happiness, the X and Y do not represent her at all.  She isn't even in the equation and doesn't want to be.  She is off on her own adventure selfishly and at your expense.

As a loving, caring person who sounds like you don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, that should be a big Red Flag  .   She is already acting single getting ready for another relationship that she is apparently started.  The fact that she hides conversations from her says it is wrong.  Why else would she hide it?  She knows exactly what she is doing.  You need to prepare yourself to leave and go NC.  You deserve better and with her in your life you won't get better.  Just more abuse, neglect and constant worrying.
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Vatz
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« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2012, 11:45:42 AM »

You know...I wonder what it would be like to just disappear out of her life. No confrontations, no calls, no talking it out and setting boundaries. Just *poof*...gone.

Change phone numbers, emails, so forth.

I just can't believe I'm facing the possibility of having to walk. I spent so much time and love her so much. Sometimes I wonder if any of this is even happening. Am I making all this up? Maybe I'm just too paranoid...

Then comes that fear of being without the person. It's not just fear of being alone... it's fear of losing THAT particular person. No one is truly replaceable. The things they did, they expressions they had, their quirks and the way they looked is truly unique and you can search the planet and you will NEVER find a perfect replica. No such thing. This is why deaths are so damn awful, a human being (even if cloned) can't be replicated. So once she's gone, she's gone for good. I still am in love (and I feel cheesy when I say it.) If she's gone I will never experience certain things ever again, things I cherished and held dear.

But...what she is doing could spell out the same fate for her. But to her it isn't as troubling. Like my quirks, my way of doing things, the things I say, the experiences she has with me...knowingly taking a path that can lead to losing all of that is not a bother to her.  I guess it brings me back to "Y < X"
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« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2012, 11:54:10 AM »

Her opinion of you, no matter what it is, does not define your worthiness.

What happens if you leave and you find someone with some of her good traits and a whole lot of traits you haven't even considered to be good?  Like someone who loves you as deeply as you do 100% of the time.  Someone who will allow you to grow and respect your dreams and goals.  Someone you have such amazing CHEMISTRY that people comment on it.

You have to reduce the toxicity of your relationship to realize that you can't be all bad.  You seem down and that is human.  Just don't stay there.  There is so much more in the world than this girl.  So muchmore to enjoy. 

Disappearing may make you feel better.  I'm sure you don't want to hear anymore about the other guy and by confronting her, the chance of that is there.  It isn't the best way to do things but if you are doing it to avoid pain, it may not have the outcome you think it will.

Take care of YOU.   Empathy
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« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2012, 11:59:55 AM »

If she's gone I will never experience certain things ever again, things I cherished and held dear.

But also you have missed out on things that you would hold dear as well. Respect is one thing that comes to mind.

When I reclaimed my freedom after 23 long years, my T gave me a great analogy. I am at the edge of a table that contains a vast banquet, but I have been feeding on grains of rice only. I have learned to be satisfied with it and really have forgotten how to enjoy a full banquet.

You are clutching onto an experience that you believe that cannot be replaced. In the minutest of detail, maybe not.  But something even better can lie ahead, but you have to take some brave steps to claim it.
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« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2012, 12:16:13 PM »

@Lost
So, you're saying that although I might feel bad in short term, CONFRONTING her would be better in the long term?

@Walrus
Yeah, but others are making those brave steps too.  What if the stuff I like in the banquet is gone? I'm still competing after all. But I guess I understand the analogy.

@Anyone/everyone.

So in general, everyone can agree that what I'm looking at is real? That seeing her behavior as disrespectful and rude isn't just the result of an oversensitive ego or paranoia? That basically I'm dealing with someone that isn't really as concerned about my feelings?
If I confront and she decides to let it go, says"If it means that much to you, I'll stop. I'm sorry and I want to work on getting your trust back." What the hell do I do THEN? (I sorta can't see it happening but...what if? Ya know?)
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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2012, 12:28:28 PM »

@Anyone/everyone.
So in general, everyone can agree that what I'm looking at is real? That seeing her behavior as disrespectful and rude isn't just the result of an oversensitive ego or paranoia? That basically I'm dealing with someone that isn't really as concerned about my feelings?  You are dealing with INSANITY.  INSANITY will not care anything about you, but what they can get from you only.
If I confront and she decides to let it go, says "If it means that much to you, I'll stop. I'm sorry and I want to work on getting your trust back." What the hell do I do THEN? (I sorta can't see it happening but...what if? Ya know?) If she tells you this, IT WILL BE A LIE!
    Vatz, I read a post of a guy, whose Wife triangulated with other men, leaving repeatedly to stay with then several times over several months for a few weeks at a time with each guy.  She finally brought her LOVER home to sleep with her in their bed, and her Husband had to sleep on the couch, and weight on them, and had to watch them making love.  He posted looking for help for what to do.  Are you going to be that Husband asking what to do?  You are very close to doing that right now.  Think about this!

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