Can't stop thinking about her.

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Jeffrey,
Glad to hear you are taking care of yourself.  The relationships can be pretty overwhelming.  I just wanted to really forewarn about the criminal charges thing.  Unfortunately, these situations can turned up side down and inside out so fast it makes your head spin and it is really easy to be brought up on charges.  The courts don't really care about the emotional mind f-ing you've been through, they look at action, culpability, and b&w judgement.  I see how hard it is for you.  The boards are a good place.

this is the first major breakup we've had.

If she is BPD I can almost guarantee you this will not be the last.  Its the god's honest truth.  Maybe you need better tools for the relationship if she comes back.

i'm a believer of giving something a second chance.

Me too...but second chances are earned through authentic apologies, acknowledging responsiblity, act of contrition (making changes that need to made)...without this you might be getting the same again.  Are you okay with that?

she caused the problems and broke up with me for the problems she caused .. that makes me laugh at times but other times it upsets me..

Kind of sounds a little like projection...this is kind of typical BPD thing. 

prior to this i had many opportunities to be in relationships but i walked away from the chances based on other peoples experiences in them and maybe to protect myself from scenarios like this. so i trod cautiously this time round but in return fell for the trap. its a near impossible thing to not take what the person that supposedly shows interest love and affection for you as a pinch of salt and not be affected by it.

Love is special and it feels wonderful...and a lot of us have walked away from better potential partners because of the BPD relationship.  What if the next one comes into your life tomorrow and you miss your chance to have something meaningful and real because you were waiting for the last one to get her sh!t together?

This is just my two cents.  And I'm not judging you, I understand the pull.
-GM

[GreenMango]

Jeffrey,
Glad to hear you are taking care of yourself.  The relationships can be pretty overwhelming.  I just wanted to really forewarn about the criminal charges thing.  Unfortunately, these situations can turned up side down and inside out so fast it makes your head spin and it is really easy to be brought up on charges.  The courts don't really care about the emotional mind f-ing you've been through, they look at action, culpability, and b&w judgement.  I see how hard it is for you.  The boards are a good place.

this is the first major breakup we've had.

If she is BPD I can almost guarantee you this will not be the last.  Its the god's honest truth.  Maybe you need better tools for the relationship if she comes back.

i'm a believer of giving something a second chance.

Me too...but second chances are earned through authentic apologies, acknowledging responsiblity, act of contrition (making changes that need to made)...without this you might be getting the same again.  Are you okay with that?

she caused the problems and broke up with me for the problems she caused .. that makes me laugh at times but other times it upsets me..

Kind of sounds a little like projection...this is kind of typical BPD thing. 

prior to this i had many opportunities to be in relationships but i walked away from the chances based on other peoples experiences in them and maybe to protect myself from scenarios like this. so i trod cautiously this time round but in return fell for the trap. its a near impossible thing to not take what the person that supposedly shows interest love and affection for you as a pinch of salt and not be affected by it.

Love is special and it feels wonderful...and a lot of us have walked away from better potential partners because of the BPD relationship.  What if the next one comes into your life tomorrow and you miss your chance to have something meaningful and real because you were waiting for the last one to get her sh!t together?

This is just my two cents.  And I'm not judging you, I understand the pull.
-GM

[OnceConfused]

Jeff:

I am not sure how much your xgf needed to do any more to make you aware that she was no longer interested in you. She has given you plenty of clues, many were gentle and many were very direct. Even then, you have tried to reconnect with flowers on Valentine's, only to be received very coldly and akwardly by her. From an outsider's perspective her reactions were very clear - that was she has a new beau now.

I really don't know whatelse this POOR woman has to say or do to you so that you can leave her alone.

If you TRULY love her, my friend, then you should leave her alone and let her be. If she does not  come back, she was never yours.

Have you seen a therapist yet about your attachment to her?

[yianks69]

OnceConfused, you are right.

Sometimes we have to be a real man about a situation, not over intellectualize it and realize that it’s not the end of the world if we don’t have this particular woman.

Yes we love them, yes we tried our best…but enough is enough otherwise we end up being pathetic…to ourselves!

[jeffrey12]

To love and to feel loved is the greatest gift to mankind. What are you getting in exchange for the sacrifice you are making in not being able to experience this?

correct me if i'm wrong please. but BPD express their love in ways that are harmful to themselves and their partners..?

your right i wasn't really getting much in exchange and i at times i thought i was the party doing the wrong even though i wasn't. i just didn't expect this final outcome. i was made to believe i was above or better than her exs which i believed since it clarified my male ego.

Jeffrey12,

I agree with you. In my case, I was not getting anything of value back for all the love I gave out and hardship I had to endure. As long as I was dishing out love, things were okay. The minute I questioned her, that was when sht hit the fan, so to speak. With BPD, you are going to lose, no matter what.

I still don't understand why I am still thinking about her constantly, 6 months after she broke off with me. And I still feeling sad, at times. I think, we nons must be very much defective from birth. How else can you explain this craziness!

i don't think its got much to do with us, maybe slightly. i think it would be normal for someone to feel the way some of us are since we received excessive love for 'x' amount of time and then within an instant it became non existent. i think that would send most people into a frenzy

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[jeffrey12]

greenmango:

well in my spare times i've been reading up on BPD and coping mechanism so if the situation was to occur i think i would be better equipped. even though in hindsight i did not much wrong to be argued at the only thing that i kind of regret is my reaction to her ways at times. it was counter productive in a BPD relationship but in 'normal' relationships it would have been sufficient enough..

onceconfused:

in between the gentle and direct actions of hers she would show excessive interest in me. yes i am painted black but i believe the relationship was painted black more so because of the arguing and stress she caused on herself.

your under the assumption that i'm harassing her.. i don't speak to her, nor do i txt, email or visit her.. yes after the break up for a week or two i tried to see what the hell was going on and might have been a tad bit intrusive at most would be and then bought her flowers on valentines day seen as i still have feelings for her.. your making me come across as someone who calls her 24/7 and stalks her which i do neither of. just because i'm on a forum messaging that i miss her etc doesn't mean i'm acting on my thoughts. it's a form of venting for me.

there's nothing like true love or selfless love in my eyes. there's a selfish action behind every kind gesture..

and this POOR woman that your talking about is the one that for 22 months argued with me for my time, affection, presence, love and over night just randomly decided to allow her false self made hatred towards me based on zero facts to hatred towards me.

where my problem lies is not with my obsessiveness attachment issue because that my friend i have control over but it's why she's projected her worst nightmares she had that i might do to her onto me for no apparent reason.. in life you can't go round confusing people by painting someone black and then white without explanation.. 

[jeffrey12]

OnceConfused, you are right.

Sometimes we have to be a real man about a situation, not over intellectualize it and realize that it’s not the end of the world if we don’t have this particular woman.

Yes we love them, yes we tried our best…but enough is enough otherwise we end up being pathetic…to ourselves!

it's not the end of the world but being upset over something so sudden based on fictions they make up in their heads that leads to a break up is not wrong and seeking out answers from someone who projected their worst nightmares on you is also not wrong. what is wrong is what and how they done.. the way us nons react after a break up with them is all due to their actions and seen as we are all humans and not robots it's perfectly plausible to act in ways that we do sometimes in the name of so called 'love'.

after what they've done to us i think it's very minuscule that we seek out our closure from them or answers after taking months of their mental and physical attacks.. how i'm acting is within the law the way she was acting was verbal abuse and the physical attacks could of come down as GBH or ABH.

anyhow, i forgive her for all she done and yes if we were to get back together there would have to be effort made on both sides for things to work.

[dah1029]

Jeffrey--  it's an awful thing to go through.  I sometimes wonder if my ex is truly a BPD (and I do think he is)  or am I just looking for a diagnosis so I can blame something other than that "he just wasn't that into me"?  Mine has never been diagnosed, but he fits so many of the traits.  And it is difficult to take on someone so needy, clingy, suffocating--  come to terms with these traits--  find some peace and balance in managing their overwhelming needs in your life-- and then to get dumped after all your accomadating of their needs.  It's hurtful, but it's also offensive.  I especially love when they project actions or thoughts onto us as if we performed those actions or spoke those thoughts.  I have often heard myself quoted as if he came up with that thought himself.  It's very odd.  And then to be told that he could never "TRUST" me again.  Trust?  I'm not the one that was lying, using, manipulating, hiding a drinking problem for 2 years, refuses to go to a doc or counselor about depression, and then abruptly withdraws from the lives of myself and my children.  I don't get how the distrust became a poor character trait of mine.  I go to work everyday full time, work overtime a few shifts a month,  run home to get kids where they need to be, make dinner, laundry, maybe some yardwork, and fall into bed.  That's my day.  Where did I get all the time to do anything that might betray him?  He's the one that was sitting at bars every evening after he left my house.  Claiming he was going home to walk the dog and go to bed. 

These people are exhausting.  Nothing is ever enough for them.

[darkstar]

anyhow, i forgive her for all she done and yes if we were to get back together there would have to be effort made on both sides for things to work.

This! Forgiving need time and deep understanding of the disease and what kind of role we played in their "game" in my opinion. If shes really BPD this work on each other will never happen! You can´t do anything right because its already too damaged. I would not want it, cause of the things she did, she can´t because of the disease. Thats so sad but I had to accept this.


I did during my break up make up cyclesssss exact the same things, don´t wanted to believe it. Wrote her not a lot but very long mails to explain myself. Stand my ground, set boundaries.. It was wrong to her... I set no boundaries, just listend her "swallowed" my emotions. Wrong either. I never heard about validating a BPD before with their emotions. Their emotions is all they have. How foolish I was to think I could fix and change her. Just by showing her my normality. She lived in a complete other reality, the one she learned in childhood to survive.

How often I had to tell her that I am a human with feelings also and not a robot or toy. I told her, explained her very calm. She understand the words but she never got what this means.

I think validation works when you are in a relationship with a low functioning BPD, with a high function its very complicated if not almost impossible. They twist your head.. and *** your mind. YOu can´t win. My ex for example even she is very not religious, explained me GOD in person send her me to teach her a lesson in life, that I was kind of a angel to her. I mean seriously? How you want argue with such a person, when she lives 300000miles above you on the moon?

[push pull]

it's perfectly plausible to act in ways that we do sometimes in the name of so called 'love'.

Yeh, Jeffrey, but you shouldn't have to do anything that will cause you to humiliate yourself just to get a few breadcrumbs from someone. It just feeds her narcissism ten fold when you do this, and the higher the pedestal you put her on, the more above you she feels. When you stop giving your power away to her, you starve her, and she'll probably come to you in a month or two to leech of your life force again.

Borderlines seem to return to the ones who put them on such a high pedestal because they were the ones who fed them with the most narcissistic energy, and when you take it away, they have major withdrawal symptoms because they feel so empty not having an energy source to leech off. That's mainly why they go to frantic efforts to re-engage you after they've dumped you, and if they can't get you back, they conduct smear campaigns against you, or anything else to pay you back for taking that feel good factor away from them (even though they caused it).

You often hear about 'the one that got away' -- the one who the borderline is forever p!ssed off with, because these people are the ones who invested so much time and energy into making the borderline feel on top of the world. The borderline enjoys this feeling, but the fact of the matter is, they are terrified of that person leaving them and causing them to fall off that pedestal. That's why they have to take themselves off it before they are dropped off it, and that's why they have to keep punishing you to see if you're strong enough to keep loving and supporting them. But as you know, the testing phase never ends, and inevitably, they drive everyone away.

[dah1029]

Thanks Push Pull for the insights. I truly don't think a relationship should have to be so difficult.  MY greatest daily dilemma with my partner should be discussing what we want to eat for dinner.  I don't want any of this crazy drama.  I want peace-- even if someone else thinks that's boring.  I just wanta  male partner that's as good to me and as dependable as one of my girlfriends.  The weird thing is is that I thought I had it with my BPDex.  Until he  lost his mind.  I loved talking to him.  Discussed silly things, dilemmas we were having with others, sought his counsel, truly enjoyed conversations with him.  I thought we had a pretty good relationship.  He did some things that annoyed me, but I handled it.  No one's perfect and I can handle compromise.  I guess he can't.

I now know that if a relationship is alot of work, it isn't meant to be.  At least not for me. 

[push pull]

Thanks Push Pull for the insights. I truly don't think a relationship should have to be so difficult.  MY greatest daily dilemma with my partner should be discussing what we want to eat for dinner.  I don't want any of this crazy drama.  I want peace-- even if someone else thinks that's boring.  I just wanta  male partner that's as good to me and as dependable as one of my girlfriends.  The weird thing is is that I thought I had it with my BPDex.  Until he  lost his mind.  I loved talking to him.  Discussed silly things, dilemmas we were having with others, sought his counsel, truly enjoyed conversations with him.  I thought we had a pretty good relationship.  He did some things that annoyed me, but I handled it.  No one's perfect and I can handle compromise.  I guess he can't.

I now know that if a relationship is alot of work, it isn't meant to be.  At least not for me. 

Dah, upon reading Jeffrey's posts, I came to the semi-conclusion that his ex may have been like mine, whereby they both exhibited BPD-like traits, but left both me and Jeffrey unsure if they were BPD because they hadn't been clinically diagnosed with the disorder.

Now, after my r/s was over I did a great deal of study on the female psyche and what they really want from a man. Over and over i kept reading about how sexy beautiful women always seek out a challenge in a man. I realized that the material I'd been reading referred to a specific kind of female: the alpha female.

Alpha females are generally very feisty and always on the lookout for drama, excitement and a challenge. They don't do much romance, as they see love as a foreign emotion, and they generally want their senses excited and challenged instead. A beta male would be chewed up and spat out by an alpha female, that's why she seeks someone who is a challenge - her counterpart: the alpha male.

This is where most of the confusion comes from after an r/s with an alpha female has ended, and it's because there's been a mismatch between both partners and recognizing the kind of personalities they are. For instance, beta male dates an alpha female; he is into love and romance, she is into challenge and excitement; alpha female becomes bored, starts punishing him and dumps him, then he screams out BPD!

Does this mean to say that beta male/females are inferior to alphas? No, it just means that they're best dating people who are like themselves -- someone who is on the peace, calm, love and romance spectrum.

My ex came across as really sweet, warm and loving on facebook and phone conversations before i met her in person, so I was understandably confused as she turns out to be an out and out alpha female, and even described herself as a 'ladette'. Consequently i'd been heavily preconditioned to believe she wanted one thing, so it was confusing when it turned out that she didn't want that, rather she preferred constant drama, challenge and excitement. This is what led me into believing she was BPD -- especially because she kept creating arguments, dumping me, then recycling me. But it may have just been that i was dating an alpha female, who needed an alpha male to 'put her in her place', so to speak. The fact that her and the guy after me have lasted a whole 13 months may be indicative of this IDK. But one thing is for sure, I walked into that war completely unprepared and emerged injured and traumatized. But at least I'm now much wiser.





 



 

[dah1029]

That was interesting.  I've never read up on male/ female relationships.  I don't want a  wimp, but I certainly don't want a macho man that won't help with dinner, grocery shopping, laundry.  I enjoy a partner that works with me to create and maintain a home and life.  No drama.  Just steady, dependable fun.

[push pull]

Dah, but is the term 'alpha female' really just a cover term for borderline? And is 'alpha male' a cover term for narcissist? They certainly seem to share many of the same traits, lets put it that way.

[jeffrey12]

Jeffrey--  it's an awful thing to go through.  I sometimes wonder if my ex is truly a BPD (and I do think he is)  or am I just looking for a diagnosis so I can blame something other than that "he just wasn't that into me"?  Mine has never been diagnosed, but he fits so many of the traits.  And it is difficult to take on someone so needy, clingy, suffocating--  come to terms with these traits--  find some peace and balance in managing their overwhelming needs in your life-- and then to get dumped after all your accomadating of their needs.  It's hurtful, but it's also offensive.  I especially love when they project actions or thoughts onto us as if we performed those actions or spoke those thoughts.  I have often heard myself quoted as if he came up with that thought himself.  It's very odd.  And then to be told that he could never "TRUST" me again.  Trust?  I'm not the one that was lying, using, manipulating, hiding a drinking problem for 2 years, refuses to go to a doc or counselor about depression, and then abruptly withdraws from the lives of myself and my children.  I don't get how the distrust became a poor character trait of mine.  I go to work everyday full time, work overtime a few shifts a month,  run home to get kids where they need to be, make dinner, laundry, maybe some yardwork, and fall into bed.  That's my day.  Where did I get all the time to do anything that might betray him?  He's the one that was sitting at bars every evening after he left my house.  Claiming he was going home to walk the dog and go to bed. 

These people are exhausting.  Nothing is ever enough for them.

dah1029:

in my case during the early days of my relationship i put down the issues to attention seeking, insecurities and jealousies. as the relationship progressed the traits multiplied in intensity and it was my exs mother that pulled me to the side one day and told me about BPD. i read up on it slightly but didn't really go into depth about it which was wrong but my youth made me naive.. yes, you are correct about it being time consuming mentally and physically but you take it as a compliment for good or for bad and work towards trying to stabilise the relationship as long as they stick through it with you. so you and i work our socks off into trying to better the relationship by helping them whilst they plan new ways of attacks and bam they are gone leaving us thinking 'what the f*ck, from that to this' in the space of the click of a finger and then the more you read it says 'they done this when they loved us most as a defence mechanism on themselves'.. yes they lose feelings or attraction for us but not in normal healthy ways but its kind of like they force it on themselves. other posters might tell me now that i'm making myself believe this in order to feel good about myself but if thats the case correct me..?

what is a scary thought also is that they argue with us over thoughts made up in their head or situations that occurred to them in their past.? with my ex in her past relationship her ex used to leave the phone in his trouser pockets on silent. he cheated on her. so on one occasion i came back from work with my phone on silent in my pocket she finds out and instantly accuses me of cheating. there was no questioning not speaking about it just a pure rage and things getting flung across the room as if the same deeds as Tiger Woods..

if i took away the BPD rages from my relationship i would argue and say that we would of probably only had maybe a handful of mediocre arguments and would of got a long like a house on fire. shame she couldn't see that because i could..

darkstar:

on my side i reacted to her outbursts in certain wrong ways by arguing back and trying to defend myself. i didn't educate myself in any coping methods i just thought that the truth was fairly obvious so in time she would realise.. clearly the opposite happened.. i'm an optimist so i always see time and effort as being a good thing.. the only way she could improve is if she genuinely decides herself to take some therapy classes and hopefully the people around her are guiding her in towards that avenue. i just think that everyone around her is not really understanding the severity of the BPD and thats what is hurtful.. for all the wrong she has done to me i overlook it and try and not to take it personal. it isn't a nice feeling to know that without help my ex is going to have a life of ruined relationships and hurt constantly around her without me being able to care and provide for her.. that was her choice to push me away but it still upsets me..

i done the same thing by trying to tell her i was human and had feelings as well. i as a person never really needed attention and affection from anyone in order to get by day to day but with my ex she in the first few months would spoil me with her feelings and ways towards me. i liked it as any human would, i was like she must really love me and like me but then the arguing would happen so this would get a tad bit less as the relationship progressed. but i always gave her the same treatment throughout i was never over romantic but i did show her a soft side to me which she said she liked because it proved to her that i wasn't this chauvinistic pig.

i probably spent 3 hours minimum a day on reassuring her which was really really hard but ill be honest with you an element of me thought it was worth it because i'd get this beautiful smile from her that was worth a million bucks..

push pull:

your right in what your saying. for me it was done in the exact opposite way though. i reassured her in ways to make her feel over the moon it made me feel good to see her happy and smile. problem was that the next time she wanted reassurance i would have to offer more. got to the point where in the beginning of the relationship it would take me a few minutes to reassure her on something but towards the end on some occasion it would take me sometimes days. if i applied the effort i put into the relationship into any career i would probably be the CEO of a big worldwide corporation.

a lot of the BPD traits contradict themselves though. you have object constancy but then you also have the abandonment feeling..? in my case from what i've been told by her whether its true or not thats a different story is that she has moved on. so clearly with that in mind and the lack of object constancy i am not even a distant memory which is upsetting because i do think about her regularly.

my one most definitely had BPD and its not me saying it to make me feel better. her whole family has my back on that diagnosis and everyone on my side saw something fishy too even though they only noticed 0.1% of what was going on. mine was seeking excessive romance sometimes fairy tale like and very OTT. romeo himself would have cringed. i would do the usual on occasions and buy her flowers, chocolates, milkshakes etc and say i love her a few times during the day. she would throw the words marriage to me on a constant basis, want to talk about babies names, mention how our house would be decorated etc. so from that to 'you are the weakest link goodbye' in the space of a day is still and will always be a shock.

[ODGreen]

Jeff,

I also almost totally agree with push pull...my girl even told me I had a sad spirit, needed get stronf for myself...I pursued her very hard after three breakups...her after each time telling me now contact...of any kind. Me, the dumbass, pursuing. The first breakup, she changed her phone number, then called me on it. Always told me she loved me, but her actions didn't show it...listen to her actions. Second breakup she came back for a couple of weeks, then no contact and again my dumbass pursued her for everything I was worth. Then back together for a week, then back to no contact...and three times was it. She filed a restraining order on my dumbass...she didn't come to the courthouse to follow through and the case was dismissed, but that document is forever in the legal system. And me, that could have easily cost me my job. However, after that, I didn't contact her.

BTW, my dumbass is seeing a psychologist now. I thought I was going insane...blaming myself for everything and causing the relationship to end. But mostly because I have been sooooo depressed from losing her, knowing that it was over.

Guess what, she contacted me about 5 days ago...and my dumbass wants her back  . HOWEVER, i had NO CLUE about BPD until  after the last break up when some guy who worked in the field for several years told me that he thought she had BPD and I was a co-dependant. Ever since he told me about that, I have been researching and stufying my dumbass off...preparing for a possible return by her. Here's my chance..right now we are just sort of friendly, and it may not progress beyond that, but it is hope in my eyes. I am however not putting all my eggs in her basket and have told her as much.

I have gotten stronger for me and I think that is attractive to her as well...we'll see. However, I'm not going to kid myself or you, I believe she came back because for the moment, no one else is interested in her, so I was/am available.

Anway, I suggest leaving her alone...as HARD as that is. Work on yourself (I thought of her EVERY day, for the better part of the day). However, by working on myself and with the help of my psychologist, i'm making progress for me...and if I'm strong, then it will also be good for her if she / we re-kindle our relationship. If we do, while I'm better prepared than I was, I still don't know if I could ever be really prepared. Lots of struggles here by so many. Some so sad that you have to laugh at them so u don't become depressed about them.

Good luck my friend.

[Easydoesitnow]

That's an interesting point about alpha/beta.  I am definitely alpha, but if you met me you would think the opposite.

Exbf was continually telling me that he was 'not the Mr Romantic I wanted'...I really had no words in response because yes, he wad correct that hd was not that guy but he was totally incorrect in his assumption that that was what I wanted.

He was always claiming that he wanted someone quiet and aloof, more like his exgf, and I am not like that at all.  He is very alpha, but like me, masquerades as beta.

[34broken]

Sorry for the HIJACK but Man, reading this whole thread has been depressing.

BECAUSE, I totally relate to the whole push/pull dynamic. That happened in the last week of my r/s. And then the flip flopping between texts and emails w/ my ex-gBPD. 
She breaks up with me via text and I'm like WTH. We talk for 30 mins on phone. Then we meet later on that night for 'closure'. She wanted a hug so I limply gave it. She asks if I will ever talk to her again. I said probably not. She cries. I get a email from her two days later to cancel dinner w/ my mom. (She asked my mom to dinner the day before b/u !)

I send her an email the next day, see what happens in 6 mos we'll catch up. She responds 'no false hope'. She then contacts me two later asking if I am alright. I am like leave me alone already. She texts me the next day and asks if I am alright and I stupidly left her have it by phone. She admits she had feelings for another guy and has been seeing him. She then texts me the next day about her newest bulimic episode. I am like.. go tell your new beau. I can't deal with you anymore.

 She sends me a pic of her 'cutting' herself 19xs with a razorblade on the side of her abdomen. This chick is batchit. "I wanted to show you how much I thought I hurt You". We texted the next day .. what purpose do I serve in your life ?  She stated she understands 'suffering'      and could we be friends. ... I am like yeahhhhh.

She then texts me 2 days later .. again asking if I am alright... I replied with ' I am getting the help i need , no contact is best for now" She replies back " ok. I promise that these are the last words I write to you..I am a ghost"  Shaking my head at this point, I sent an email later that said no contact for now and if I can reach the point in a few mos down the road where we can 'be friends then so be it, but I gotta heal'.  She responds with " We both need to get on with our lives ,it was nice while it lasted and I am taking you off FB. keep it real."

That was 2 weeks ago. I hope this is the end. I hope I never hear from her again... because I am extremely weak and I hope I can refuse to stop feeding into the madness. 

Jeff-- I'd say cut your losses. Believe me , after reading all the posts on this thread today, I have to let her go. I have cried for 26 straight days. I am taking klonapin to ease the obsessive thoughts. She effed my head up... I was having fun for 2 mos.. and she really swept me off my feet during the 3rd month... I let my guard down believed everything she was telling me... then BAM !  Problems started .. 2 weeks later .. she became the apparition that she said she is.  She was my first relationship at 34. I felt very much for her.. I want to say 'love' but maybe I don't know what love really is either. While she is out getting her hump on and posting pics and all of her BF on FB ... it's absurd in a way that I could have ever even 'loved' this woman. 

I am actually thinking of leaving this BPD board soon because I think its a trigger for me and really.. why should I keep on reading up and be an amateur BPD scholar when my ex is gone.. almost been a month now. She is an intelligent, manipulative, bulimic,self mutilating, hot mess w/BPD. I can't do this anymore. And neither should you Jeff. Peace.   

[GreenMango]

I am actually thinking of leaving this BPD board soon because I think its a trigger for me and really.. why should I keep on reading up and be an amateur BPD scholar when my ex is gone.. almost been a month now. She is an intelligent, manipulative, bulimic,self mutilating, hot mess w/BPD. I can't do this anymore. And neither should you Jeff. Peace.   

Dear 34, Jeff, P/P, and any other numerous respondents on this thread-

34 that last paragraph was priceless.  I looked at this board 3 years ago, eyeball deep in the throws of my relationship, and again over this last year breaking up.  I just started posting about a month ago.  And, about 5 minutes ago I almost wrote word for word the same statement you wrote above "be an amateur BPD scholar" on the Taking personal inventory thread.  What a coincidence you might ask, well basically understanding and analyzing my ex wasn't helping me feel better anymore it was bringing up all kinds of tar I thought I had cleaned off.  But, if you have ever had tar on you, you know it may look like it's gone but the sticky feeling is still there. Maybe join me on the Ugly Truths... thread I'm doing my own personal inventory on my own bad habits that got me into this mess in the first place that I can work on in a positive way.  Seriously, I feel better and comforted by it, because I plan on not making this mistake again. 

As for the rest of the thread, and all respect to you Push/Pull.  We shared a nice message chat.  I agree with parts of what you are saying about the alpha/beta dynamic...but a lot of that dynamic is predicated on somewhat "normal" male/female relations, and some evolutionary biology.  I think I've read some posts on another psych board about this book and if it works.  There was a lot of talk on this thread and I'm responding because it keeps coming up on my replies to post link. 

It's really not for me to say if it works, I haven't read it but I have heard of it.  Here's a thought, the alpha/beta personality and what women really want is not really applicable to BPD.  It is based on the idea, that either alpha or beta know what they want, know who they are, and have reasonably consistent behavior.  A person with BPD does not, they are a study in contradictions if nothing else.  That means they might want someone alpha one minute and beta the next.  Assuming women, BPD or otherwise, always want or need an alpha, because they are protectors and if they don't want an alpha they must be alpha themself, is not recommended and probably not the rule. 

In a normal healthy relationship your woman, or man, will tell what they want/need in most cases and mean it.  They will not test or trick you incessantly.  Why not listen to what your woman says she wants and needs instead of giving them what you think they need?  Now how do you know what they are telling you is actually what they want...their words and actions match = integrity, good character development, communication, etc.  Here in lies the problem with applying this rule to BPD relationships, words and actions don't match, fluctuating identity, fluctuating moods, fears of abadonment, fears of intimacy, b&w thinking, blah, blah, blah.  I'm not trying to be a jerk, but applying the alpha/beta thing to these relationships will not fix it.

I don't know if I can put the link up, but on Psychforums under personality disorders if you search the posters name "TatteredKnight" you will get his play by play relationship dynamic and history.  He went from being co-dependent with a BPD/histrionic wife (serial infidelity, attention seeking, high-functioning), to working in ind. therapy for both and couples counseling, to applying the alpha man rules, setting boundaries, etc.  In addition, the poster "Wisdom" a researcher assisting with all the latest rundown in professional journal articles and the classic psych for people to read, ponder and utilize.  And low and behold after all TatteredKnight's work on himself, his wife pulled the same sh!t again, and he left her.  And by this time he was an alpha man and no longer codependent.  This guy put in years, he got better, and she didn't.  Tattered Knight said the alpha thing worked for awhile, but mainly because he had purged his codependent behavior.  He got so well, he could finally say I won't do this anymore and didn't.  He was fighting a losing battle.

So, whether they come back or don't, whether you utilize the alpha philosophy or don't there are no guarantees...we can't change them and analyzing them won't heal us.

-GM

[darkstar]

In a normal healthy relationship your woman, or man, will tell what they want/need in most cases and mean it.  They will not test or trick you incessantly.  Why not listen to what your woman says she wants and needs instead of giving them what you think they need?  Now how do you know what they are telling you is actually what they want...their words and actions match = integrity, good character development, communication, etc.  Here in lies the problem with applying this rule to BPD relationships, words and actions don't match, fluctuating identity, fluctuating moods, fears of abadonment, fears of intimacy, b&w thinking, blah, blah, blah.  I'm not trying to be a jerk, but applying the alpha/beta thing to these relationships will not fix it.

I think this is a very good point and I agree. During the 4 years with my ex, I was the alpha covered as beta and BPD people sense that I think. I told her like every girlfriend before, that I need space, that I am independent and that I don´t wanna marry. I told her often that I need a strong girlfriend, who really know what she wants, with a own life. She never knew it but she tried her best to "copy" it. I explained her that I am not the angel, she saw in me all the time, well I had my history but learned.
Because of her I changed, I do change quite often, cause I like to try new things, and it was confusing her like hell. Those people need a constant "road" in life.. Someone who can go ways straight never leave the road. I was leaving the road often, my friends call me a butterfly , and she was not able to follow me. Simply she never knew what she wanted and was not able to articulate this in a mature way. In our case the long distance and the different culture played a big role too. Without any compromises this relationship to her was a failure already from day one. But the word compromise was not in her dictionary. Too bad.

Words and actions don´t match Oh how I can relate to this. And I truly will never understand this. I think its right this alpha/beta thing really can work but just with two mature adults. Not with one who is emotional 3 years old, however Intelligent they might look like, at least not for me.

[push pull]

Thanks for feedback, mango.

Recalling the r/s in it's entirety has been difficult. Just when I feel that I've got an answer, I recall another memory from the r/s and see that it throws a spanner in the works again. For instance, I asserted my dominance at first, then she criticized me for coming off as intimidating, and she said i remind her of some gangster guy she knew. Me 'gangsta'?   She also said that I don't reciprocate the affection she gives me. So i took her feedback on board, and decided to tone my attitude down (not that I had one, I was just behaving like a guy does). So, as soon as i do that, she starts walking all over me, calls me a pu55y and says that my affection towards her is a turn off. I was seriously confused by all this. So i start reverting back to my own self, she sees me as a challenge, and is into me for a while, then starts trying to change me into affectionate nice guy again. I tried to get balance, but this girl would flit between loving me and hating me, so in the end, I had no choice but to remain in alpha mode because I needed to assert my dominance in order to put her in her place, so that I'd get no more psychological onslaughts.

And to cut a long story short here, the fact that things have so far lasted between her and the guy after me, has totally befuddled me. Sure I can understand incompatibility issues as a reason for the r/s failing, but why that girl wouldn't leave me alone each time she dumped me, just doesn't make any obvious sense at all. The constant 'I love yous', 'please don't leave mes', 'you're the man of my dreams', 'the only man who has ever loved mes' 'You're too good for mes', etc, etc, all seems so fitting with borderline pathology, and those were only a couple of things I've mentioned which led me to believing she was borderline. But because things have lasted with the guy after me, it has thrown that belief into doubt. However, I read on here about how people have had an r/s with a borderline that has lasted years to decades, even, yet the quantity of time didn't equal quality time in those r/s'.

It could be that she is borderline, yet she's sticking with the new guy because he has a considerable amount of cash, whereas she's jobless and can't hold down a job. So maybe she's just gaming him for his money and just fooling him into believing she's into him. And perhaps he is being psychologically tortured too. I'd be very surprised if someone like her could just suddenly change, especially considering how many men she's tortured in the past. Her long term ex who she had two kids to got the whole BPD treatment; as a consequence, he ended up on anti-depressants, suicidal, hearing voices to kill his kids, and then becoming a religious zealot.

Anyway, mango, sorry for the lazy reply here, but I'm still pretty tired. I hope you can see where i'm coming from, though. The r/s just really messed me up and I guess it seems that I'm a mass of contradictions in my posts. That's because I'm left at a crossroads of confusion and have no definite answers as to what happened. I think I'll refrain from posting as of this point because I don't want to confuse anyone anymore with my paradoxical statements. I think the best thing for me to do is realize that I'll never work out this puzzle, and to simply stop trying and get on with my life.