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Author Topic: its insanity  (Read 798 times)
rich5a
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« on: February 21, 2012, 10:44:52 PM »

Its baffling...and still very painful. I can read and read but still the burden doesnt lift. I understand there is no future with her...it is a dead end, the only way to win is not to play. The last time I saw her, we went to dinner. Italian. A very nice cozy restaurant, not too crowded with good food. Not that it mattered to me  I could be anywhere with her when it was good and we were grooving which was typically only hours at best. Anyway the night was clicking and we were laughing and talking and I was truly having a wonderful time. Desert was on the table, rasberry mousse, expresso, cappucinno and things were great... laughing so much, really I love her.  I was facing a large window and I suppose I glanced up and looked out the window which I may have? She pounced. "YOU WANT TO GO HOME" "I SEE YOU LOOKING OUTSIDE BECAUSE YOURE WORRIED ABOUT THE TIME"! on and on she goes, like fingernails on a chalkboard...the fantastic evening is tainted with the absurd...again. "what are you saying babe" I respond? " please stop" I am enjoying myself and want to stay with you...etc. She continues to dysregulate and rage. She Leaves me there. I pay the $140 bill
and walk out alone. The irony..the whole place could feel the love radiate between us before the BPD meter expired and all hell broke loose.
The severity of symptoms must vary amongst pwBPD. There was never more than 12 hours before the inevitable and outrageous accusations hit. After insatiable love making and tears in my eyes proclaiming love...I momentarily saw her vulnerability in her eyes. I would whisper " I LOVE YOU" hold her so tight..I could never get close enough and wanted to crawl inside of her. No matter how I loved her...the result was the same. hours later...more accusation and hate. I dont know..it is so freaking sad.  I know I couldnt continue always on the guard...it only becomes more bizzare...the whole thing is absurd. They are incapable of trust...After i am crying and loving her...she responds..you dont love me...You only want to f--- me for free! You think I am a whore...etc..over and over...Who says that? No matter how you console, confirm, preach,plead,cry,love,spend, give...The result always is the same.                   
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avoidatallcost
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 10:59:18 PM »

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I can't tell you how many times this very incident was replayed during my year with my BP ex.  The most trivial action on my part would also cause the BP meter to run out only for all hell to break lose.  And no matter how much I tried to calm the situation, the rage would only get worse. 

Such a tragic disorder for everyone involved.
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diotima
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 11:17:50 PM »

The best thing you can do when they start that crap is leave the scene. What is done is done though and now it is time for healing. Intimacy is a trigger for them. That wonderful dinner and the intimacy (all intimacy) revs up their abandonment fears. What for us is a moment of delicious closeness is for them utter terror--and there is no reasoning with them because for them the threat is felt as coming from the outside.
Diotima
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avoidatallcost
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 11:49:01 PM »

The best thing you can do when they start that crap is leave the scene. What is done is done though and now it is time for healing. Intimacy is a trigger for them. That wonderful dinner and the intimacy (all intimacy) revs up their abandonment fears. What for us is a moment of delicious closeness is for them utter terror--and there is no reasoning with them because for them the threat is felt as coming from the outside.
Diotima

This is true, and it took several scenes like this before I smartened up and just left at the start of her BPD-like behavior.  The problem with BPD is, just as you learn how to react to one form of craziness, the BP always manages to increase the crazy making in other ways.  They are always two steps ahead of you.  Just when you have learned to deal with one set of insanity, they unleash a whole new load of insanity upon you.  And you just keep taking it, more and more.. you keep thinking "hey I'm getting better at this maybe I'll be able to deal with the next set of crazymaking better."

But you never do.  You just keep taking more of their insanity.. until you think you can't take any more.  But you always do, until the end..

which is when they secure the replacement and get rid of you.  In the most possibly hurtful way that they can of course wink

And so the BPD pattern repeats itself over and over and over again..
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GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?
This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving
All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)
Gus926
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« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2012, 12:03:37 AM »

The best thing you can do when they start that crap is leave the scene.

This is true, and it took several scenes like this before I smartened up and just left at the start of her BPD-like behavior.  
Which further reinforces the thoughts and fears of abandonment. (Not busting your ba**s or anything, just saying...)

I did this very thing a few times.  When I saw things spiraling out of control,  I would just remove myself from the equation, step back, reevaluate and figure out what happened, and then try to reengage and fix it.  All "normal" behavior to me and, I would think, most adults.

However, to her, it was "You just left...".  I didn't know it at that time, but looking back at those times and remembering the emotion and, if I may, fear in her voice when she would say "You just left...", well...it just breaks my heart that I wasn't able to fix it.  It's a no-win.  By staying it feeds the problem and by leaving it feeds the fear.

Frustrating.
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diotima
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« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012, 09:30:05 AM »

I know what you mean about how heartbreaking it is not to be able to "fix it." No, we can't. The BPD is running on a script and will not examine that script and where it is coming from, and the BPD will keep on doing that as long as no outside help is sought.
Diotima
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avoidatallcost
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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2012, 09:58:31 AM »

I doubt even outside help can make much of a change.  My BP ex was in therapy and on some pretty good medication, but the disorder still always won.  Despite all the help she sought and received, living with her and her disorder was a nightmare and like living in hell on earth for me.  I can only imagine what she was like and what her previous boyfriends had to put up with before she was in therapy or on medication.
 
I've also read posts by members here who have mentioned their BP SO's being in therapy and on drugs for 5 or 10 or even more years without things improving much.  I have read that one or two people on the staying board have mentioned that their SO's improved, but I'm not sure whether this is just the calm before the inevitable storm, or whether they have just grown accustomed to taking more and more abuse, or whether the BP's behavior has in fact improved.  Or who knows maybe they just didn't have a "severe" form of the disorder.  Whatever it is, your guess is as good as mine.

This combined with everything I have read from PhD's on this topic and what therapists have written/told me, gives me the impression that there is very very little chance that even therapy or drugs can make much of a difference.  My own therapist told me I was lucky to get out alive.  A surgeon friend of mine, who's father is a therapist and treats borderlines from time to time, told me that her dad hates treating borderlines because they're so difficult and manipulative.  

« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 10:04:07 AM by avoidatallcost » Logged
diotima
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« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2012, 02:37:28 PM »

Avoid: I think you are correct. I do know of a *few* success stories, but they are VERY few and far between. For the most part it is a lost cause. The father of a friend of mine, who is a psychoanalyst, claimed they were untreatable. My T said she no longer wants to deal with them--that she has done her share. A friend of mine, also a T, has gradually limited her practice and excluded them although she does have a couple of them--and one that is a real success after a number of years and much abuse on the part of the BPD. More of her clients are people trying to recover from having been with a BPD. Not  lol That said: my ex falls into the "hopeless" category.
Diotima
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avoidatallcost
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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2012, 02:46:39 PM »

A friend of mine, also a T, has gradually limited her practice and excluded them although she does have a couple of them--and one that is a real success after a number of years and much abuse on the part of the BPD.

Diotima, does this friend of yours go into any detail about what she thinks of the whole BPD issue?  Does she limit her treatment of them because they are too difficult, or because she can't hear anymore about how much they hurt the people in their lives?   
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Rayw
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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2012, 03:07:33 PM »


"The severity of symptoms must vary amongst pwBPD. There was never more than 12 hours before the inevitable and outrageous accusations hit. After insatiable love making and tears in my eyes proclaiming love...I momentarily saw her vulnerability in her eyes. I would whisper " I LOVE YOU" hold her so tight..I could never get close enough and wanted to crawl inside of her. No matter how I loved her...the result was the same. hours later...more accusation and hate. I dont know..it is so freaking sad.  I know I couldnt continue always on the guard...it only becomes more bizzare...the whole thing is absurd. They are incapable of trust...After i am crying and loving her...she responds..you dont love me...You only want to f--- me for free! You think I am a whore...etc..over and over...Who says that? No matter how you console, confirm, preach,plead,cry,love,spend, give...The result always is the same."                   
[/quote]


Wow rich ! this is so close to home !happens every 2 weeks for me - rage followed by love - i am banished and sent marching then requested to return as my s/o never wants to feel alone again like that an missed me !
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diotima
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« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2012, 06:19:50 PM »

avoid: my friend has started limiting her practice because of her burn out. Doing T with a BPD takes a lot out of person because the BPD will do all the crap to the T that they do in any other r/s. btw, my friend is one of the few BPD survivors I know of. She had a more benign version of it, had about 20 years of T, was committed to dealing with it and has been in a long marriage. She has some success with the BPDs she has treated. My own T doesn't want them anymore either because of the toll they take. My T does custody evaluations on the side and she says just about all of them involve a BPD and that's enough contact with them for her. I am not sure what details you might want to know about--ask questions and maybe I can answer. Basically, BPDs have no object constancy and so can't do r/s's.
Diotima
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jacksondog
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« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2012, 06:45:08 PM »

I feel for you RIch5, my story is very similar. It is so disheartening in my case to let my guard down, show her how much she really meant to me, and to show her I would never do anything to hurt her. And come away with crazy episodes of them sabotaging all the love you have for them. It was like they were always testing your love for them. I even wrote about this in one of avoidatallcost the topic was I think What was the craziest thing with your BPD.
and I wrote how frustrating it was to tell your gf how you love her, treat her good, show he how much you care, and  then sabotage the relationship with craziness. For me this is why I feel  sad. If they were normal It could have  been a great ending to the rest of our lives together.
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avoidatallcost
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« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2012, 07:27:00 PM »

Hey Jacksondog I remember that post it was from my thread called "What was the most Frustrating Thing About BPD for you" and here is what you said:

I think for me the most frustrating aspect is, when in the beginning  of the relationship it appears that both of us are so much in love.What we both seem to be missing in our lives we gave to each other. Then I guess you might put this in the push and pull category, she would some how make it seem as though I was doing things on to hurt her, or make her feel bad. I guess acting as a Victim. It was strange, you have this lady that your madly in love with and I wouldn't do a thing to make her feel bad at least on a degree of somebody hating you for it.And the next thing you know your defending yourself trying to explain that you would never do anything to hurt them . Its like they are constantly testing your love for them . This question is hard to dissect . I felt I was in a tornado for a lot of the relationship.

I think Stonehead echoed your sentiments here and summed up BPD insanity quite well when he wrote

Avoidatallcost, these people are crazy. How else can you explain away their crazy actions? These pwBPDs are extremely dangerous in that they appear normal in every other way. To the outside world, her ordinary friends and coworkers, she may appear very intelligent, sweet and considerate. It is only with those who are very close to her that she will show her real and ugly face.
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avoidatallcost
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« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2012, 07:29:47 PM »

Basically, BPDs have no object constancy and so can't do r/s's.
Diotima

I thought they couldn't have relationships because of their extreme fear of intimacy.. are their relationship problems really due to the object constancy?  How so?
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jacksondog
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« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2012, 09:28:05 PM »

Thank you  avoidatallcost for finding that quote pertaining to what was the most frustrating thing with your BPD. To me it brings sadness that you have a unique love for some one who wont be able to cherish it.
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avoidatallcost
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« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2012, 09:36:34 PM »

Thank you  avoidatallcost for finding that quote pertaining to what was the most frustrating thing with your BPD. To me it brings sadness that you have a unique love for some one who wont be able to cherish it.

The worst part is, you would do all these nice things for them and they wouldn't even care.  I would ask her how she could treat me so badly after all the nice things I did for her.  She looked at me like I was evil incarnate, like I was Satan using her for sex and trying to cover it all up with little meaningless tokens of affection.

I made soup for this woman when she was sick.  I picked her up in the middle of the night and drove her home to make sure she was safe.  I held her when she cried.  I was always there for her when no one else was.  And how did she repay me?  By having sex with other men literally the day after spending a weekend with me and telling me she loved me.  After all my experience in dating women, I still don't know why I allowed her disorder to cloud my judgment of her actions and allowed me to forgive so many truly unforgivable behaviors and actions.

And I still don't understand this almost sociopathic lack of caring and empathy.. it's like they knew you loved them and would do anything for them, but it still wasn't enough.  They knew how much we loved them, and they'd still sleep around and criticize you and blame you for everything that was wrong in the relationship.  And they know so well how to make you feel bad about not being able to get them to completely trust you.   And the entire time I'm thinking, "why isn't she trusting me what am I doing wrong here?"  

Little did I know that this lack of trust had nothing really to do with me.  It was because of the abuse she had suffered growing up.  I wasted so much time blaming myself!
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 09:41:54 PM by avoidatallcost » Logged
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