Moving to the 'Leaving' Board

[Think About It...]

Hello  Hi!

I am moving over to this board, now I am feeling stronger and things feel clearer    

Please don't feel obliged to read this post, as it is a long one, and probably more just my way of gaining clarity by telling my story, than anything else.  I also hoped it may show other nonBPD people how situations can develop.

I met my ex 3.5 years ago.  I was low at the time, after a failed r/s, otherwise I probably would have ended my new relationship very soon after meeting him.

I believe my ex has several personality disorders, including BPD (which both he and I think he has) and I think possibly NPD (feel free to give opinions on this as I explain the situation).  He currently has depression, too.  However, I was not even aware of BPD or NPD when I met my ex, let alone suspected he had either/or.

I met this younger man (6 years my junior) when he was 23yrs.  He was very sweet, shy, seemed a little insecure (although I put that down to me being older and more experiences, as this was his first serious relationship) but great fun to be around.  I do wonder in hindsight, whether his condition(s) was/were just starting to appear or was/were milder, when I first met him.  I think very possibly that this is the case.  We were quickly spending every weekend together, and in just a few weeks he was in love with me.  I was not so quick to come to that same conclusion.

The first time I felt something was out of place, was a few days into dating him, when we were chatting online on Messenger.  We were having a fairly normal, light conversation about nothing in particular, when the tone of the conversation changed very rapidly.  It struck me as most odd, because most people are on their very best behaviour with new dates, and trying to make a good impression.  He came across to be suddenly in a bad mood, and pretty irritable, so I ended the conversation.  The next day he apologised, saying he had been feeling unwell and not himself.  This seemed possible, to me, and so as nothing bad had been said, I gave him the benefit of the doubt.  

Over the following weeks, about once per week he began flying off the handle.  It would be about absolutely nothing, and he admitted as much afterwards, and apologised for his behaviour.  However, he didn't have much option but to apologise, as each time it happened I asked/told him to leave my house.  He would usually walk for about 10-15 mins, then come back cold or wet and apologise.  He was always (I assume) genuinely very sorry, and as it was only shouting and nothing more, I would talk to him afterwards and let it go, because he was so sorry.  He could never find anything as a reason for the outburst.

Over the next year the pattern continued at an outburst of once or twice per week.  He was going through a lot of stress in his life, as was I, and so I put it down to that.  However, the rages were really getting bad.  I used to tell him afterwards that when I looked in his eyes when he was yelling at me, I could see a different person, and that it felt as if he was 2 different people.  I got so stressed by never being able to predict these rages.  I always stayed very calm initially, and that seemed to make him worse.  He hated my control.  There was no bringing him back to earth once his switch had been flicked.  No calm talking was going to soothe him at all.  I would end up telling him to sleep on the sofa if it was too late to ask him to leave, and then he'd go downstairs and try to finish arguing by bombarding me with text messages!  I asked many times for him to go to anger management counselling, but he said it was something he could work on himself.  Sometimes he managed to kerb the behaviour, and I do believe he was trying, but it was rarely successful for longer than a couple of weeks at a time.

Up to the point of 2 years into the relationship we had a sex life, but the more bad behaviour he displayed, the less I wanted to be close to him physically.  He regularly hinted that one day he hoped to marry me, and frequently suggested moving in with me, but I was never going to entertain this, whilst his behaviour was that way.  This caused him a great deal of frustration too.  After 2 years I was so low and stressed, I gave him the ultimatum of getting his anger in check, or leaving for good.  

I'm not really sure what happened then, but suddenly his behaviour changed completely.  He was calm, and we barely had any arguments for about 8 months.  During this time we were not really sleeping together, as I was too wary and still resentful of how little respect he had for me, but gradually, a desire to be close was coming back, and I really felt as though we were getting back on track and going to go somewhere.  It was no quick fix to passion though, it was going to take time, but any hope of that was soon killed off, when he started accusing me of deliberately withholding sex as a punishment for his earlier behaviour.  He could not understand that I needed to be emotionally close and trust him in order to sleep with him (and so would most women I think, even without the addition of coming to terms with a rape a couple of years prior to this relationship (which he knew about)).  Often I would be lying beside him in bed when he was sleeping, and despite him being turned away from me, I felt like I knew it was Mr Hyde and not Dr Jekyll I was in bed with some nights.  Those nights I felt almost repulsed (although I think it was more likely to be my suspicion and lack of trust rather than anything else).  However, I still really loved Dr Jekyll, very much.

A few months later he began training for a new job.  It was not what he wanted to do for a career, but due to lack of posts in his then current field, he had to be flexible.  This is the only thing that I can think of that changed at this time, when I noticed a serious change in his behaviour.  Almost every day he seemed angry about something or someone.  He began loosing his temper with me multiple times per week, including a great deal when he was at his own home, and chatting to me on Messenger or on the phone.  He was having public arguments on Facebook, and his behaviour with me became sometimes bullying.  He began twisting words and events, and his rages worsened to the point where his eyes were pure evil and he seemed to be spitting venom, not words!  I became more defensive as a result, and found it very difficult to stay calm during his outbursts.  He became so vile during one rage, I slapped him for the first and only time.  This is the only thing that ever stopped his rage instantaneously!  It was like seeing someone slap a hysterical person in a film, and them suddenly returning to sanity.  
 
It was at this point of slapping him, that I really began to ask myself some serious questions.  I was disgusted at myself for being lowered to such a level.  I was not that person, but i was rapidly becoming 'that' person.

Another major change in his behaviour, was that he stopped apologising and reflecting.  He blamed me for his rages.  One way or another they would always be my fault.  He told me he refused to reflect on himself any longer, because I had made him do that long enough, and I had ruined his self-esteem.  He told me I needed to start taking a long look at my behaviour, and then I needed to address my issues.  He was now refusing any blame for his own behaviour, whatsoever.  When I imposed my boundaries, and refused to flick a switch and play happy families again, immediately after one of his rages, he got even more angry.  I was unable to just make like nothing ever happened, and why should I have?  Why should he not see that he had hurt me, and accepted that there were consequences to his behaviour.  If I was not happy and smiley with him straight after, he would either blackmail me to make me act as though nothing had happened, or he would fly into another rage with me.

So, that took us up to Xmas night, when he took a major rage on me.  That was the final straw.  I couldn't even have Xmas without his anger.  On boxing day I told him we needed a break.  I told him that we would not reconcile unless he sought therapy for his anger.

3 weeks later he ended the relationship.  Initially he blamed the arguments.   Another day he would blame his own behaviour.  Another day I was told it was all my fault for withholding sex and making him fall out of love with me as a partner.  That was a couple of weeks ago.  He had begged me to stay in his life as a friend, because he felt he was in depression, and couldn't cope without me as a friend.  Despite me knowing it would hold my own recovery from the relationship back, I agreed as I couldn't abandon him.

Since then he seems to be drinking frequently, yelling at me frequently and sending me horrible emails/messages.  He has called me needy for standing by him as a support for his depression, and just the other night told me that he had never asked for my support, and that I was just hanging around trying to get back together with him!  I really have no idea what his next accusation/move will be, as I can never predict such things.  Quite frankly, I'm past caring now.  He's on his own.  Suddenly I feel lighter...like a weight has been lifted.  I had not realised just how much this relationship had affected me.  I had let it get to the point where I was questioning things I'd said, wondering if he hadn't twisted things, believing rages had been my fault, and in an attempt to work this out, had started recording conversations.  When it gets to that point, I think I really should have seen the light!  He was/is a very, very intelligent man though, and can be very convincing.

Not all of this relationship was bad, though.  I wouldn't have stayed for so long had that been the case.  We had fantastic fun together.  Dr Jekyll was my best friend.  I miss that kind, sweet man, who loved me more than life itself.  I truly love that man.

He often came out with things I found odd at the time.  He said more than once that he was narcissistic.  I have no idea if this was true, as it was always said seemingly in jest, but 'Many a true word...' and all that!

I'd be very interested if people think that there was more than just BPD here.  My gut feeling is that there was.

Thank you for reading my story  

[jessicapuppy]

Hello  Hi!

I am moving over to this board, now I am feeling stronger and things feel clearer    

Please don't feel obliged to read this post, as it is a long one, and probably more just my way of gaining clarity by telling my story, than anything else.  I also hoped it may show other nonBPD people how situations can develop.

I met my ex 3.5 years ago.  I was low at the time, after a failed r/s, otherwise I probably would have ended my new relationship very soon after meeting him.

I believe my ex has several personality disorders, including BPD (which both he and I think he has) and I think possibly NPD (feel free to give opinions on this as I explain the situation).  He currently has depression, too.  However, I was not even aware of BPD or NPD when I met my ex, let alone suspected he had either/or.

I met this younger man (6 years my junior) when he was 23yrs.  He was very sweet, shy, seemed a little insecure (although I put that down to me being older and more experiences, as this was his first serious relationship) but great fun to be around.  I do wonder in hindsight, whether his condition(s) was/were just starting to appear or was/were milder, when I first met him.  I think very possibly that this is the case.  We were quickly spending every weekend together, and in just a few weeks he was in love with me.  I was not so quick to come to that same conclusion.

The first time I felt something was out of place, was a few days into dating him, when we were chatting online on Messenger.  We were having a fairly normal, light conversation about nothing in particular, when the tone of the conversation changed very rapidly.  It struck me as most odd, because most people are on their very best behaviour with new dates, and trying to make a good impression.  He came across to be suddenly in a bad mood, and pretty irritable, so I ended the conversation.  The next day he apologised, saying he had been feeling unwell and not himself.  This seemed possible, to me, and so as nothing bad had been said, I gave him the benefit of the doubt.  

Over the following weeks, about once per week he began flying off the handle.  It would be about absolutely nothing, and he admitted as much afterwards, and apologised for his behaviour.  However, he didn't have much option but to apologise, as each time it happened I asked/told him to leave my house.  He would usually walk for about 10-15 mins, then come back cold or wet and apologise.  He was always (I assume) genuinely very sorry, and as it was only shouting and nothing more, I would talk to him afterwards and let it go, because he was so sorry.  He could never find anything as a reason for the outburst.

Over the next year the pattern continued at an outburst of once or twice per week.  He was going through a lot of stress in his life, as was I, and so I put it down to that.  However, the rages were really getting bad.  I used to tell him afterwards that when I looked in his eyes when he was yelling at me, I could see a different person, and that it felt as if he was 2 different people.  I got so stressed by never being able to predict these rages.  I always stayed very calm initially, and that seemed to make him worse.  He hated my control.  There was no bringing him back to earth once his switch had been flicked.  No calm talking was going to soothe him at all.  I would end up telling him to sleep on the sofa if it was too late to ask him to leave, and then he'd go downstairs and try to finish arguing by bombarding me with text messages!  I asked many times for him to go to anger management counselling, but he said it was something he could work on himself.  Sometimes he managed to kerb the behaviour, and I do believe he was trying, but it was rarely successful for longer than a couple of weeks at a time.

Up to the point of 2 years into the relationship we had a sex life, but the more bad behaviour he displayed, the less I wanted to be close to him physically.  He regularly hinted that one day he hoped to marry me, and frequently suggested moving in with me, but I was never going to entertain this, whilst his behaviour was that way.  This caused him a great deal of frustration too.  After 2 years I was so low and stressed, I gave him the ultimatum of getting his anger in check, or leaving for good.  

I'm not really sure what happened then, but suddenly his behaviour changed completely.  He was calm, and we barely had any arguments for about 8 months.  During this time we were not really sleeping together, as I was too wary and still resentful of how little respect he had for me, but gradually, a desire to be close was coming back, and I really felt as though we were getting back on track and going to go somewhere.  It was no quick fix to passion though, it was going to take time, but any hope of that was soon killed off, when he started accusing me of deliberately withholding sex as a punishment for his earlier behaviour.  He could not understand that I needed to be emotionally close and trust him in order to sleep with him (and so would most women I think, even without the addition of coming to terms with a rape a couple of years prior to this relationship (which he knew about)).  Often I would be lying beside him in bed when he was sleeping, and despite him being turned away from me, I felt like I knew it was Mr Hyde and not Dr Jekyll I was in bed with some nights.  Those nights I felt almost repulsed (although I think it was more likely to be my suspicion and lack of trust rather than anything else).  However, I still really loved Dr Jekyll, very much.

A few months later he began training for a new job.  It was not what he wanted to do for a career, but due to lack of posts in his then current field, he had to be flexible.  This is the only thing that I can think of that changed at this time, when I noticed a serious change in his behaviour.  Almost every day he seemed angry about something or someone.  He began loosing his temper with me multiple times per week, including a great deal when he was at his own home, and chatting to me on Messenger or on the phone.  He was having public arguments on Facebook, and his behaviour with me became sometimes bullying.  He began twisting words and events, and his rages worsened to the point where his eyes were pure evil and he seemed to be spitting venom, not words!  I became more defensive as a result, and found it very difficult to stay calm during his outbursts.  He became so vile during one rage, I slapped him for the first and only time.  This is the only thing that ever stopped his rage instantaneously!  It was like seeing someone slap a hysterical person in a film, and them suddenly returning to sanity.  
 
It was at this point of slapping him, that I really began to ask myself some serious questions.  I was disgusted at myself for being lowered to such a level.  I was not that person, but i was rapidly becoming 'that' person.

Another major change in his behaviour, was that he stopped apologising and reflecting.  He blamed me for his rages.  One way or another they would always be my fault.  He told me he refused to reflect on himself any longer, because I had made him do that long enough, and I had ruined his self-esteem.  He told me I needed to start taking a long look at my behaviour, and then I needed to address my issues.  He was now refusing any blame for his own behaviour, whatsoever.  When I imposed my boundaries, and refused to flick a switch and play happy families again, immediately after one of his rages, he got even more angry.  I was unable to just make like nothing ever happened, and why should I have?  Why should he not see that he had hurt me, and accepted that there were consequences to his behaviour.  If I was not happy and smiley with him straight after, he would either blackmail me to make me act as though nothing had happened, or he would fly into another rage with me.

So, that took us up to Xmas night, when he took a major rage on me.  That was the final straw.  I couldn't even have Xmas without his anger.  On boxing day I told him we needed a break.  I told him that we would not reconcile unless he sought therapy for his anger.

3 weeks later he ended the relationship.  Initially he blamed the arguments.   Another day he would blame his own behaviour.  Another day I was told it was all my fault for withholding sex and making him fall out of love with me as a partner.  That was a couple of weeks ago.  He had begged me to stay in his life as a friend, because he felt he was in depression, and couldn't cope without me as a friend.  Despite me knowing it would hold my own recovery from the relationship back, I agreed as I couldn't abandon him.

Since then he seems to be drinking frequently, yelling at me frequently and sending me horrible emails/messages.  He has called me needy for standing by him as a support for his depression, and just the other night told me that he had never asked for my support, and that I was just hanging around trying to get back together with him!  I really have no idea what his next accusation/move will be, as I can never predict such things.  Quite frankly, I'm past caring now.  He's on his own.  Suddenly I feel lighter...like a weight has been lifted.  I had not realised just how much this relationship had affected me.  I had let it get to the point where I was questioning things I'd said, wondering if he hadn't twisted things, believing rages had been my fault, and in an attempt to work this out, had started recording conversations.  When it gets to that point, I think I really should have seen the light!  He was/is a very, very intelligent man though, and can be very convincing.

Not all of this relationship was bad, though.  I wouldn't have stayed for so long had that been the case.  We had fantastic fun together.  Dr Jekyll was my best friend.  I miss that kind, sweet man, who loved me more than life itself.  I truly love that man.

He often came out with things I found odd at the time.  He said more than once that he was narcissistic.  I have no idea if this was true, as it was always said seemingly in jest, but 'Many a true word...' and all that!

I'd be very interested if people think that there was more than just BPD here.  My gut feeling is that there was.

Thank you for reading my story  

[HowPredictable]

I met my ex 3.5 years ago.  I was low at the time, after a failed r/s, otherwise I probably would have ended my new relationship very soon after meeting him.

I believe my ex has several personality disorders, including BPD (which both he and I think he has) and I think possibly NPD (feel free to give opinions on this as I explain the situation).  He currently has depression, too.  However, I was not even aware of BPD or NPD when I met my ex, let alone suspected he had either/or.

I met this younger man (6 years my junior) when he was 23yrs.  He was very sweet, shy, seemed a little insecure (although I put that down to me being older and more experiences, as this was his first serious relationship) but great fun to be around.  I do wonder in hindsight, whether his condition(s) was/were just starting to appear or was/were milder, when I first met him.  I think very possibly that this is the case.  We were quickly spending every weekend together, and in just a few weeks he was in love with me.  I was not so quick to come to that same conclusion.
Thank you for reading my story  

JessicaPuppy, not only did I read your story, I could have written pretty much every word.  This paragraph describes my Ex to an uncanny degree, right down to the duration of the relationship, the age gap, depression, and co-morbid NPD.

Sadly, the rest of your story is might familiar, too.  The rages, the increasingly bizarre behavior, the weird job situation (he lost his job, and some unseen "switch" must have flipped deep inside him, because his dysfunctional behvior really ramped  up after that).

But the important thing to know, is that there hundreds (if not thousands) of stories just like ours.  Small changes to the details, but the plot really doesn't deviate too far from a very predictalble, very destructive pattern.  There is no other way for us, but out.

As for your question about NPD, it's hard to tell.  I also know a lot about that PD (lucky me!) due to a prior relationship, as well as this past one.  The key trait for NPDs is that they rage when their sense of specialness has been injured -- a "narcissistic injury".  It sounds like your Ex was merely raging in the way that BPDs do, because of their overall inabilty to regulate their emotions.  Try to recall whether his rages were predicated by some event, insult, or harmless-seeming slight that might fit that definition.

Congratulations on joining the "leaving" board.  You will find lots of good advice and tremendous support here.  And be sure to stay No Contact, because -- if your Ex is like mine (and he assuredly is) -- he will be back to test the waters and maybe draw you back in with more apologies.  But you can't fix him, JessicaPuppy, and he doesn't really want you to, because his behaviour is what protects him from deep core pain.  So all you can do, is leave him to it.

Welcome aboard.  You are in good company here.

[jessicapuppy]

[quote JessicaPuppy, not only did I read your story, I could have written pretty much every word.  This paragraph describes my Ex to an uncanny degree, right down to the duration of the relationship, the age gap, depression, and co-morbid NPD. Sadly, the rest of your story is might familiar, too.  The rages, the increasingly bizarre behavior, the weird job situation (he lost his job, and some unseen "switch" must have flipped deep inside him, because his dysfunctional behvior really ramped  up after that). But the important thing to know, is that there hundreds (if not thousands) of stories just like ours.  Small changes to the details, but the plot really doesn't deviate too far from a very predictalble, very destructive pattern.  There is no other way for us, but out. Congratulations on joining the "leaving" board.  You will find lots of good advice and tremendous support here.  And be sure to stay No Contact, because -- if your Ex is like mine (and he assuredly is) -- he will be back to test the waters and maybe draw you back in with more apologies.  But you can't fix him, JessicaPuppy, and he doesn't really want you to, because his behaviour is what protects him from deep core pain.  So all you can do, is leave him to it. Welcome aboard.  You are in good company here. [/quote]

Hi there HowPredictable  Hi!

Thank you very much for taking the time to read my story.  I am amazed that you have found so much similarity, as I thought my story was different to most.  Most people talk about more recycling and set stages, which I felt were not clearly definable in my situation.  Although he raged at least once per week from the very beginning, I felt as though on the whole, the 'honeymoon' period many talk about, seemed to last the majority of the relationship, with the only threats of break-up and actual break-up happening around 3 years into the story.  I had wondered if this had been so delayed, because he never felt he properly had the hooks in, because I refused to marry or live with him.

It is nice (although sad at the same time) to hear that I am not so unusual.  

I have been trying to recall what began his rages, but I'm pretty sure it was nothing, as I was usually dumbfounded as to where they came from.  He did seem to swing between very low self esteem, to being very vain, highly opinionated of himself and acting as though he had a right to better things.  I do wonder if because he could be two such different people, if there was a split personality situation.  I knew straight away which of the two I was dealing with, just by his eyes.

Thank you, again  

[HowPredictable]

Hi JessicaPuppy,

I guess the timing and frequency of the rages -- and the lack of break-ups/recycles -- has more to do with YOUR level of patience, rather than the severity of his disorder.  Like yours, mine had little rages at first (though at the time, not knowing and better, I called them "Pouts") and they happened right from the start.  If I was in a different headspace myself, I would have left the relationship after the very first one.  But (like you) I had just left another relationship and was feeling less than amazing about myself.  So I put up with it ... and months turned to 3.5 years and the rages got worse and more frequent as his disorder manifested itself more.

I also caught myself nodding, while reading your paragraph about how you loved Mr. Jekyll.   Mine was sweet, loving and -- yes -- loved me more than life itself.  It's a very intoxicating place, to be so adored.  And its so hard to stay firm in the resolve to stay NC, when they come sniffing back with promises, and you have your memories of the good times.

But I remind myself that the man I loved was never real. 

As for your question:  I strongly suspect mine has some NPD, and he is diagosed with BiPolar and ADHD.  But I also have family members with NPD and briefly dated one guy who was hard-core toxic.  So it's a dubious honor, but I do have some first-hand experience.

Sending you good vibes ~~~~

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[Cardinals in Flight]

Hi Jessicapuppy  Hi!

I read your entire story, and I can relate to a whole lot of what you wrote.
Welcome here to the 'leaving board', I truly hope there is insight, wisdom and support that you need right now.  I know I found it
Keep writing, it really really helps!
CiF

[HowPredictable]

He did seem to swing between very low self esteem, to being very vain, highly opinionated of himself and acting as though he had a right to better things. 

Oh -- and this was my Ex too.  It was so puzzling, one moment he was going on about how much money he wanted to earn in the future, what (expensive) cars he was going to drive, and how he was going to be some high-flying Big Shot in his career.  The next moment -- without warning -- he would be saying the most self-deprecating, pitiable things about himself, about how he hasn't accomplished anything in his life, and how undeserving of happiness he was.

It was sad to watch.  Must be even sadder to live through.

[jessicapuppy]

Hi there How Predictable

Yes, that's exactly it!  One moment the World was his right to conquer, and the next he didn't consider himself fit to breathe the same air as us!  I feel very much for what that must be like for him.

Something else I noticed in the last few weeks, that I have not noticed before...

..especially after he'd had a drink, he seemed to display a very cruel side.  He was chatting to me online on Messenger, and being loving and even flirting with me for twenty minutes, and then did a full 360 and begin telling me that my 'plan' to win him back almost worked, but 'Na...I don't think so', and then he'd turn really abusive!  It's like he thought of it as some sort of game.  He knows I'm not a game player, and he knows how much he's hurt me!  This is what made me think that it may be narcissism.

When my ex was in his nice frame of mind (Dr Jekyll) he was almost childlike-innocent.  At first I used to joke that his tantrums were like a teenage boy, and the thing is...we could both laugh about them.  He was so light-hearted when he was Jekyll.  I could lovingly tease him about his stroppyness, and it brought us closer!

Who finished your relationship, and did you take your ex back at all?  Have you had more than the one split?

[jessicapuppy]

Hi Jessicapuppy  Hi!

I read your entire story, and I can relate to a whole lot of what you wrote.
Welcome here to the 'leaving board', I truly hope there is insight, wisdom and support that you need right now.  I know I found it
Keep writing, it really really helps!
NR

Hi Cardinals in Flight  Hi!

Thank you so much for reading my long story!

I am amazed that people can relate to my story, because, as I said further up the thread, I had thought mine wasn't the normal pattern of things.  I am feeling relieved to know that my story does fit the pattern, as it helps me know that I am not alone.

Thank you for making me welcome here, both of you 

[HowPredictable]

Who finished your relationship, and did you take your ex back at all?  Have you had more than the one split?

I ended it.  (And judging by the board posts, this is not the usual way these things end).  It was more than a year ago.

However, I'm not sure you can really call it an "ending", because BPDs don't like finality and they certainly don't like to be left behind.   For the past year, mine has lingered around, cluttering up my life in every way imaginable.  Relentlessly texting, calling, stalking, driving past my home or popping in unannounced.  For half of this time, I had a new boyfriend (who was understanding, fortunately, although we've since split for unrelated reasons).

And I'm not sure you can say I "took him back" over this past year because -- as he puts it -- in his mind I'm still his girlfriend and we haven't really broken up.  I think it's only recently that he's come to terms (if you can call it that) with the fact that I've really moved on.

I have changed my cell phone number, and have blocked him on my e-mail and home phone, de-activated by Facebook account entirely, and have pretended not to be home when he shows up.   He still has access to one email account that I cannot change, and he has written me something or the other -- even if only a single "hello" every single day for a whole year.

So if you call that an "ending"...yes.  It was my doing. 

[jessicapuppy]

I ended it.  (And judging by the board posts, this is not the usual way these things end).  It was more than a year ago.

However, I'm not sure you can really call it an "ending", because BPDs don't like finality and they certainly don't like to be left behind.   For the past year, mine has lingered around, cluttering up my life in every way imaginable.  Relentlessly texting, calling, stalking, driving past my home or popping in unannounced.  For half of this time, I had a new boyfriend (who was understanding, fortunately, although we've since split for unrelated reasons).

And I'm not sure you can say I "took him back" over this past year because -- as he puts it -- in his mind I'm still his girlfriend and we haven't really broken up.  I think it's only recently that he's come to terms (if you can call it that) with the fact that I've really moved on.

I have changed my cell phone number, and have blocked him on my e-mail and home phone, de-activated by Facebook account entirely, and have pretended not to be home when he shows up.   He still has access to one email account that I cannot change, and he has written me something or the other -- even if only a single "hello" every single day for a whole year.

So if you call that an "ending"...yes.  It was my doing.  
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Hi HowPredictable

It sounds as though for you it was the one break-up, followed by a long process of cutting the ties.  I was wondering if you had been through the recycling process and actually officially got back together properly.  I had heard that recycling is very common.

My ex has shown no interest in getting back together, but does seem to do an awful lot of telling me that we won't be getting back together (by the way), despite me telling him I don't want him back as I'd never feel secure in the relationship, waiting for him to up and leave another time.  Besides, he's done nothing to seek therapy, which was my initial boundary that caused the split, so nothing would have changed to help the relationship work for a second attempt.  Also, I have seen such an ugly side to him since splitting, I don't think I could respect him again.  He's doing a pretty good job of ruining any loving thoughts I had about him.

I wonder then if I can expect not to have a clean break from my ex.  He is yet to collect his belongings from my house, despite my offers to drop them off for him.  I find that weird.

Had he not broken up with me, and had shown a commitment to therapy, I would have stood by him.

[HowPredictable]

Had he not broken up with me, and had shown a commitment to therapy, I would have stood by him.

I hope you don't mind me saying this, JessicaPuppy, but one of the "silver linings" of having gone through the ordeal of this relationship was that I finally had to evaluate why a strong, smart, successful woman like me would stick it out through more than three years of ridiculous rages, boundary-pushing, and puzzling, sometimes-disrespectful conduct.  As I said, if I were in a better place in my own life, I would have left after the very first rage or inappropriate emotional episode.

The fact that you would have stood by him if he was in therapy, while very commendable, to my (untrained) thinking suggests that there may be opportunity to examine why you'd think it would be worthwhile to stick by someone with so many problems.  Even if he committed to therapy, it is a long and gruelling process, and -- even assuming that it's eventually successful, which is not for sure -- certainly you deserve better than a life of disrespect and erratic behaviour and unexpected rages while he tries to get better?

I had not realised just how much this relationship had affected me.  I had let it get to the point where I was questioning things I'd said, wondering if he hadn't twisted things, believing rages had been my fault, and in an attempt to work this out, had started recording conversations.  When it gets to that point, I think I really should have seen the light!

Hopefully this is all just theoretical, but as I said, I gained lots of insight into my own "issues", and I was the same as you in terms of some of the precursors to this relationship.

[jessicapuppy]

Hi there HowPredictable

I suppose that once I was in love with him, because what he's suffering from is a newly discovered illness for him, I would have given him chance to work with therapy and improve his behaviour.  The good times were really very good, and I wouldn't ditch someone I loved dearly, purely because he is ill.  I wouldn't hang around indefinitely, but if he was doing all he could to make the relationship better (therapy for example), I would try equally as hard as him.  

I try to treat other people as I would want to be treated.  If it were me with the mental illness, I would hope to receive the same devotion from a SO, at least until I'd been given a chance to change.  

I think if he and I had tried therapy and possibly meds, and therefore knew the situation was unlikely to change, that would be my natural point to give up and walk away.

Of course, if it were a new relationship and I had been in a better place emotionally, I'd have walked away before I fell in love...the minute I knew he, at the very least, had an anger issue.

JP
 

[123Phoebe]

Hi jessicapuppy, glad you're feeling stronger and you sound like a very positive person; this will get you places

Hopefully this is all just theoretical, but as I said, I gained lots of insight into my own "issues", and I was the same as you in terms of some of the precursors to this relationship.

Thanks for bringing this up HowPredictable; as I started delving into what my issues are, I realized that I've played from this same script from Day1 within my FOO.  I'd get involved with people, be it friends/lovers and put my needs last.  I didn't realize I had any needs, or didn't deserve them as much as other people did.  It felt comfy being in that role, until it didn't anymore!  There were often times that my authentic self would try to emerge, but I'd push it down as not to be so selfish. Who do I think I am?  Blah, okay Mother...

Crazy, kooky stuff.  But I'm so glad to have this awareness, as it's helped tremendously in recognizing disordered behavior a mile away...  And in turn, walk away from it.  Not my problem! 

[HowPredictable]

I suppose that once I was in love with him, because what he's suffering from is a newly discovered illness for him, I would have given him chance to work with therapy and improve his behaviour.

I guess the point that needs to be underlined, is that BPD and NPD are highly, HIGHLY resistant to therapy.  Google "BPD recovery" and you'll not find too much that's promising.   These disorders develop due to core trauma that was severe, happened long ago, and complately ravaged their ability to properly develop, emotionally.

So even if your Ex is willing to undergo intensive, difficult therapy (which he is clearly not), then the prospect of improvement is mighty, mighty slim.  It's like getting him to exercise 6 hours a day, so that he can get taller.  

When we are freshly out of relationships like this, the gloss of love, care, sympathy, commitment, loyalty will all camouflage the fact that there are some people in life you just have to walk away from.  You have done it, and as the people on this board will tell you, it's the only course.

Again, please take no offence at my comments.  I just want to save you -- if I can -- from holding out hope that he can get better, and sticking around for more mistreatment on the slim chance that he does.

[HowPredictable]

Thanks for bringing this up HowPredictable; as I started delving into what my issues are, I realized that I've played from this same script from Day1 within my FOO.  

Hi 123Phoebe.  

I have about 5 books in my peresonal self-help library that untangle this very thing.  Working my way through my own FOO issues has been revelatory, but also tough slogging and very hard work.  Worth it, though.  All the puzzle pieces of who I am and why I have been attracting these disordered folk in my life have suddenly fit into place.

Good luck on your own journey!

[jessicapuppy]

Hi there

I'm just thinking about recovery in therapy of BPD.  I am trying to workout where I saw the statistics, but I had read that 80% of people in therapy for 10 years, no longer have enough symptoms to be classed as having BPD.

I don't know anything about treatment or recovery statistics of NPD.

What does FOO stand for, please?

Thanks
JP
x

[123Phoebe]

Hi Jessicapuppy, FOO stands for Family of Origin = the family we grew up in.  We tend to carry a lot of baggage with us from our childhood into adult relationships.  I know I did, and still do, which are my 's. 

[jessicapuppy]

Ah I see.  Thank you