Lack of Family Acceptance Wearing on pwBPD

[Think About It...]

It's been a rough weekend for my dBPDw. We've been married now for about 18 months. My D7 said something mean-spirited to my SD14. I disciplined my D7 (apparently not sternly enough to suit my dBPDw, but that's another topic). My dBPDw sees this action as a lack of meshing in with the family by my D7, rather than something that simply happens between siblings. The kids get along fine most of the time, given their differences in age. So, this was enough to get my wife dysregulated enough to paint me black, along with my D7.

By the end of the day, my dBPDw was starting to calm down... Until she checked the mail. There was a wedding invitation in the mail from a relative on my side of the family. This particular relative had attended our wedding. The invitation was addressed to my name + D7's first name + "family." Honestly, most of my side of the family doesn't like being around the drama that my dBPDw seems to create out of thin air because of her BPD. They graciously and politely decline the rare invitations from us for dinner at our house, including for holidays. I, along with my D7, still remain in regular contact by talking to them on the phone regularly and having dinner with them about once a week. So, my family really doesn't want to be around her, but they do support me in my decision to stay with her, and they do not take actions with the specific intent of hurting her. For example, they send Christmas and birthday presents by me to my dBPDw and my SD's. Anyway, the wedding invitation just seemed to throw my dBPDw into the depths of despair. She has raged a few times, and is currently in silent rage mode. She has stayed in bed watching TV, just barely acknowledging my existence.

Now, I am not hurt all that bad about her painting me black along with my family, even though this seems to be over issues that I have no control over. I do see that she is building a lot of serious resentment for me over this... I'm the target for her, and her feelings of resentment on her part are making her feel very ill about me and the future of our marriage. She has said, "I don't think we are going to make it."

What have I been doing about all of this? Well, I've been keeping myself busy around the house... Went to eat dinner by myself and went to the book store to hang out for a while. As for interactions with my wife, I have gone into the bedroom to check on her every few hours. I've been validating her feelings as much as I can... When she said, "I don't think our marriage is going to make it," I responded with, "that must be a terrible feeling. I'm sorry that you feel that way. I'm sorry that things are the way they are, but I am committed to you, and I'm here for you." I'm not going to lie to her about how my family feels about her (they don't hate her, they just don't want to be around her because of the tension she creates). At the sane time, there is no benefit that I can see in rubbing it in her face.

So, I'm just going to do the same things I've been doing so far, and wait until she comes out of it this time, unless anyone on this board has any other ideas. I don't like seeing my wife in pain. Anybody have any ideas on what I can do other than what I have described?

[CodependentHusband]

It's been a rough weekend for my dBPDw. We've been married now for about 18 months. My D7 said something mean-spirited to my SD14. I disciplined my D7 (apparently not sternly enough to suit my dBPDw, but that's another topic). My dBPDw sees this action as a lack of meshing in with the family by my D7, rather than something that simply happens between siblings. The kids get along fine most of the time, given their differences in age. So, this was enough to get my wife dysregulated enough to paint me black, along with my D7.

By the end of the day, my dBPDw was starting to calm down... Until she checked the mail. There was a wedding invitation in the mail from a relative on my side of the family. This particular relative had attended our wedding. The invitation was addressed to my name + D7's first name + "family." Honestly, most of my side of the family doesn't like being around the drama that my dBPDw seems to create out of thin air because of her BPD. They graciously and politely decline the rare invitations from us for dinner at our house, including for holidays. I, along with my D7, still remain in regular contact by talking to them on the phone regularly and having dinner with them about once a week. So, my family really doesn't want to be around her, but they do support me in my decision to stay with her, and they do not take actions with the specific intent of hurting her. For example, they send Christmas and birthday presents by me to my dBPDw and my SD's. Anyway, the wedding invitation just seemed to throw my dBPDw into the depths of despair. She has raged a few times, and is currently in silent rage mode. She has stayed in bed watching TV, just barely acknowledging my existence.

Now, I am not hurt all that bad about her painting me black along with my family, even though this seems to be over issues that I have no control over. I do see that she is building a lot of serious resentment for me over this... I'm the target for her, and her feelings of resentment on her part are making her feel very ill about me and the future of our marriage. She has said, "I don't think we are going to make it."

What have I been doing about all of this? Well, I've been keeping myself busy around the house... Went to eat dinner by myself and went to the book store to hang out for a while. As for interactions with my wife, I have gone into the bedroom to check on her every few hours. I've been validating her feelings as much as I can... When she said, "I don't think our marriage is going to make it," I responded with, "that must be a terrible feeling. I'm sorry that you feel that way. I'm sorry that things are the way they are, but I am committed to you, and I'm here for you." I'm not going to lie to her about how my family feels about her (they don't hate her, they just don't want to be around her because of the tension she creates). At the sane time, there is no benefit that I can see in rubbing it in her face.

So, I'm just going to do the same things I've been doing so far, and wait until she comes out of it this time, unless anyone on this board has any other ideas. I don't like seeing my wife in pain. Anybody have any ideas on what I can do other than what I have described?

[momtario]

 Hi! CoDH

I can sort of understand how she must feel, at being written in as "and family." Generally speaking, the invitation would have read "CoDH, BPDw and family," and the way it was written would likely have hurt most women's feelings, regardless of the circumstances.

I would start by validating any negative feelings she has about that.

[Happiest]

I really feel for you being caught in the middle with this. I do understand her sense of loss and sadness and pain. As a normal person, to have that happen is bad enough, but to have it happen to a person who already struggles with their emotions must be demorilising.

I agree with  Momentario. That invitation was bordering on disrespectful. She is your wife and if your family say they support you staying, then the support can be shown in moments like this.
I think (and its just my opinion), that even though your wife has a mental illness, its not fair to not show respect for her. She might be ill, but she is not stupid. If they dont like being with her then they have a choice to not be in her company i.e. dont invite her, but if they do chose to include her, then she deserves to be respected like everyone else. Did anyone else get an invite that preferred to mention the child and assign the spouse as "the family"? I'm supposing not.

I can tell you, that if I was in her shoes and feeling this way, words of validation wouldn't be enough for me. It would have to be backed up with an action. Why? because it can be backed up with an action. Your action.

Is it possible you can contact your family member and ask them to re-send the invite with the nicer version of the invite that Momentario suggested? It may take some humilty on your family's part to hear that this was not acceptable from your end. In saying that, I can imagine what your wife may feel once that has ben done. Part of her will be proud of you for stepping up and protecting your marriage status and really validating her, and another part you may have to help her with, because she will still feel the rejection sensed from the first invite and have an emotion around them sending a re-invite only because you told them to. And I dont suppose they would appologise for not getting it right in the first place. These things have a habit of blowing up dont they.

In any case, I would consider contacting them and politely ask if they could sort out this oversight of respect for her.

I have always thought that its one thing to improve our relationships with new tools etc, but also sometimes we need to look at some of the triggers outside of our relationship.
My family are a bit fed up with my H's "stuff", but there is no way I would accept an invitation that wasnt addressed to both of us. If I got one, I'd be popping over for a cuppa and a chat.
Which leads to another question - What did they think they were achieving by sending an invitation that put your WIFE on the bottom rung? What did they think would happen when you both read the invite? Are they mature considerate people by any chance, or a couple of young teenagers with no thought of the consequence to your wife's feelings or your consequences living with the "slap in the face"

Sorry its a bit blunt, but I'm actually really feeling for your wife at the moment. And feeling for you too as a matter of fact. 

[needbpdhelp]

I agree with both momtario and Happiest 100%.

[CodependentHusband]

Thanks. Trust me, I feel fer her too, and an invitation like that would have hurt my feelings too... Zero doubt about it! I've told her how very sorry I am about the whole situation... The invitation, the declined invitations to our house, etc. I've also told her that I am not planning on attending the wedding. I honestly think that this particular instance with the wedding invitation was done out of ignorance, because the envelope was sloppily handwritten, and my niece isn't known to be well-versed in proper etiquette. I hurt for my wife... I really do! Just like I can't control her, I can't control my family's actions. The biggest issue I am having is that it seems that I am being resented by my wife over the actions of others. You know, it's hard enough reassuring her with what I DO have control over! Anyway, I think I was able to reassure her tonight that I am committed to her. I told her that I need her and I need my family, and that there is nothing that can happen with them to cause me to leave her.

I appreciate the advice about requesting that the invitation be sent again properly addressed. I fear that ultimately this would only serve as a reminder of the original hurt that was caused. "Mr. And Mrs." in front of my name is all it would have taken. Oh well, I'm just going to try my best... If she resents me over other people's actions, I guess there isn't much that I can do.

[tuum est61]

My W believes that my entire family hates her and has stopped attending any event involving my side of the family. She has functionally gone no contact with d19 and d20. We no longer can have a family dinners at my house or my parents house - we all live in the same city.   My d14 had been staying with friends for a month. My family simply doesn't know how to react to her alienation.

In the meantime, we celebrated her brothers birthday at our house and had breakfast with her Dad and his wife just this week, and I speak regularly with her out of town brother and uncle on the phone. My brother hadn't dared call our house phone for 4 years and if my sister calls - who has not yet been completely alienated - my W uses the caller ID to avoid answering.

My mother still makes SURE that my W and her s17 is included in all invitations, receives gifts and cards for Christmas and birthdays.  So does my sister but the bridge is burned between my W and my brothers family.  I fear all the remaining bridges are on fire.  

I've detached from her feelings about my family, but have to admit if the discussion ever came up, I would have one HELL of a time validating those feelings. I have set a boundary that I will still go to spend time with my family and in fact did Christmas Eve at my parents with my daughters and their boyfriends  and New Years Eve at my parents with my daughters and their boyfriends and my sisters family - while my W stayed at home.   My W does still maintain contact with my sisters s20 - perhaps because he gets along well with her s17 - but rue the day my nephew ever pushes on the issues re her delinquent son.   

None of this seems to bother my W at all.

[CodependentHusband]

I think it's a control thing. Like your wife, my wife has blown off so many family events on my side of the family over the past couple of years, including my parents' 50th wedding anniversary party (which I attended alone), so, yes, my parents' feelings have been hurt by her actions as well. In typical BPD form, it's okay when she's the one doing the wrong thing... But it's a double standard. Still, I can't help but hurt for her. It's a sad situation all around.

[Happiest]

It sounds like there needs to be a clearing of the decks, with everyone taking stock of how this is not working.
SOMEONE (not mentioning who) could have a say over how unhealthy this is.
It seems like a tit-for-tat scenario going on. It must be hard for you to manage both sides. But it wont get better if you dont say something to your family. Its more than just your wife  protecting thier bruised feelings (ego?) Both sides of the fence are having dicey standards, but only one is labelled with BPD.

My Dad calls it clearing of the decks. Get over it and start behaving like grown ups he says . "Chuckle". But then again, none of us are allowed to hide behind "mental illness" in my family dynamics.

Seriously CoH, -

They graciously and politely decline the rare invitations from us for dinner at our house, including for holidays

-
fair enough , thats thier choice and you cant control that. But if your wife has shown to willingly have them over for meals of share holidays, isnt she trying to get her act together over it?


I dont know mate, there seems not to be double standards here. Seems that at least two of your family (the ones that wrote the invite) are sending your wife an emotional message that isnt at all nice. That invite was intended to put her in her place. Are you going to allow that?

[united for now]

I don't manage my partners relationship with others. I stay out of his personal affairs besides validating and being empathetic.

I don't teach manners to others either, unless they are under the age of 10 

Seriously. It's tempting to get involved and try to sweet talk your family into "being nice" to your wife - for your sake. It actually isn't fair to either side - and it isn't honest.... The resentment it generates will wind up making things worse in the long run...

Many BPD sufferers are extremely attuned to emotional signals and body language, though they often misinterpret the reasons, they do tend to pick up and detect when people aren't being honest, such as people being fake friendly and fake nice and fake polite. This "fakeness" confuses them, since the words they are hearing aren't matching the signals they are detecting. And like most of us, when there is a mismatch between verbal and nonverbal, we pay attention to the nonverbal.

Think back to all the times your BPDso blew up at a family/friend gathering. Is it possible that your BPDso was getting mixed signals from people who really didn't have their best interests at heart? That family/friends may have been faking being nice - for your sake - and that your partner picked up on some of that? That their dysregulation was due to being overwhelmed by the confusion?


Also, your family/friends resent having to play this game too, so when your BPDso acts out, they are quick to view this as confirmation that your BPDso is crazy. Being nice is seen as doing you a favor, and if it doesn't work, then you get the blame for asking them to do this favor in the first place. It places you in the middle of having to choose sides in the conflict - your family/friends or your partner.

I know Miss Manners would completely disagree with me. And that's OK  The dynamics of mental illness goes a little deeper than how an envelope is addressed...


Me? I would be validating the heck out of my bf...and doing the broken record.

[Happiest]

Many BPD sufferers are extremely attuned to emotional signals and body language, though they often misinterpret the reasons, they do tend to pick up and detect when people aren't being honest, such as people being fake friendly and fake nice and fake polite. This "fakeness" confuses them, since the words they are hearing aren't matching the signals they are detecting. And like most of us, when there is a mismatch between verbal and nonverbal, we pay attention to the nonverbal.

Think back to all the times your BPDso blew up at a family/friend gathering. Is it possible that your BPDso was getting mixed signals from people who really didn't have their best interests at heart? That family/friends may have been faking being nice - for your sake - and that your partner picked up on some of that? That their dysregulation was due to being overwhelmed by the confusion?

so agree with the quoted above. But to clarify United...whos best interests? I agree its a messy convoluted situation. and its sad.

I agree that validating the hurt feelings to the hilt would be a good way to go.

I also think "someone" should draw the line on hurtfull messages.. Nothing to do with manners. Its just another boundary. Only this time not with the labelled BPD person.

Love always Miss Manners
 

[united for now]

I also think "someone" should draw the line on hurtfull messages.. Nothing to do with manners. Its just another boundary. Only this time not with the labelled BPD person.

Love always Miss Manners
 

Could you help me understand how this could be used as a boundary?

[CodependentHusband]

Thanks for the different perspectives to consider. It seems that my validation and reassurance I gave my wife last night has her feeling much better for now. If I didn't know my niece better, I really would think that the invitation was done on purpose, but she is so typically clueless... My niece lives several hours away and I truly cannot be certain that she did this out of malice. There is not a "tit for tat" scenario going on here, I am merely making observations in an attempt to understand everyone's feelings. I see and understand the different perspectives here. Right now I'm thinking that the polite, classy way to respond is by declining with the RSVP card by signing it "Mr. And Mrs. [my name], [D7], [SD12], and [SD14]." My wife agrees that we should send a gift. It will be signed the same way. I may not be able to hold my tongue when my mother asks me if I am attending the wedding. I am thinking about simply having the invitation with me on my next visit to my parent's house so they can see it and draw their own conclusions. No explanations... Like I just "forgot it when I left" kind of thing (minus the RSVP card). While I don't think my mother had anything to do with this, I'd like for her to see how their actions serve to hurt ME, not just my dBPDw.

[Happiest]

Thanks for the different perspectives to consider. It seems that my validation and reassurance I gave my wife last night has her feeling much better for now. If I didn't know my niece better, I really would think that the invitation was done on purpose, but she is so typically clueless... My niece lives several hours away and I truly cannot be certain that she did this out of malice. There is not a "tit for tat" scenario going on here, I am merely making observations in an attempt to understand everyone's feelings.

I appologise if that was too judgemental CoH. And I believe your perspective is dead on.

I see and understand the different perspectives here. Right now I'm thinking that the polite, classy way to respond is by declining with the RSVP card by signing it "Mr. And Mrs. [my name], [D7], [SD12], and [SD14]."

Thats resonates with me (not that it has too mind, but for what its worth it does)

  My wife agrees that we should send a gift
[color blue]How sweet is that, through this turmoil she is trying to be gracious.[color blue]

It will be signed the same way. I may not be able to hold my tongue when my mother asks me if I am attending the wedding.

[color blue]You'll find the right thing to say when the time comes because your a lovely man trying to do the best for everyone[color blue]

 I am thinking about simply having the invitation with me on my next visit to my parent's house so they can see it and draw their own conclusions. No explanations... Like I just "forgot it when I left" kind of thing (minus the RSVP card). While I don't think my mother had anything to do with this, I'd like for her to see how their actions serve to hurt ME, not just my dBPDw.

Actually I'm in awe of how youve decided to back up validating your wife with actions. She would be feeling pretty honoured by you right now. Well I would if it were me in her shoes.

So I humbly back off thinking your neice was out to hurt and lean to the too young to know better. Or something like that. I get that. Makes it all slightly different.


United,
In answer to your question.
I've learnt here and with my T that boundaries are for what we allow or dont allow in our lives. Thats not just for our BPDso's, its for all aspects of our lives and all people we are involved with. Work collegues, extended family, neighbours etc. My take on this, CoH has found a terrific way of articulating a boundary with his family about what he will and wont allow in his marriage, just by his planned action and these words " and that there is nothing that can happen with them to cause me to leave her."

Good on him. 
You know I have an aversion to messy things being left to fester in families. Forcing people to be "friendly" or nice isn't the issue here. Being "respectful" is. The niece who knew no better maybe needs some coaching. Otherwise, what is she learning here.

Anyway I've answered the question, and time I should get off my soap box.
 

[Auspicious]

You can't control how your family sends invitations.

You can't control how your wife receives invitations.

As much as each might like you to "manage" the other, it's in your best interest to bow out of that impossible position ;p

[oceanheart]

It seems that my validation and reassurance I gave my wife last night has her feeling much better for now.

I have a bit of a problem with this. While I appreciate your attempt to validate (you're right, it's very important to feel understood for us folk with BPD), a significant part of recovery is learning to manage one's own feelings. This is almost like an external brake vs. an internal brake and the goal of recovery is to finally be able to respond, not react when our feelings get intense. But perhaps your wife is not in therapy yet? Does she know anything about DBT skills like mindfulness? Forgive me if I'm being too personal...

[tuum est61]

You can't control how your family sends invitations.

You can't control how your wife receives invitations.

As much as each might like you to "manage" the other, it's in your best interest to bow out of that impossible position ;p

Thanks Auspicious and Oceanheart,

I did not like where CodependentHusband (CDH) was being directed here.   This isn't about making his W feel better.  Its about validation, and while not mutually exclusive from "making her feel better", making CDH "feel better" is the goal with validation.  Co-dependents like me trip over themselves to make their BPDs
"feel better" as a rule.  

CDH - I appreciate that you felt you  needed to "negotiate" with your W as to handle the invitation - I still do it myself - negotiation is something we co-dependents have mastered over the life of our r/s with our BPD.  

We should, however, be working to detach from the emotional responses of our BPDs re feeling slighted by others - and "let" the BPD deal with the consequences of those emotional responses.  I sure wouldn't be dumping that responsibility on the members of my family as some sort of "she's BPD, you deal with her or you can't be with me" approach. I have somewhat done that with my family and am working hard NOT to.  I am left out of too many family events.

I am afraid I don't have a good idea about exactly what alternative could happen here.  I am NOT suggesting you reverse the negotiation.  But perhaps if you wanted to go to the wedding because you love your niece/family - you should have stated you wanted to go -with or without BPDw?  Maybe next time.  Believe me, I get how hard this is...

Validation in this case would be to acknowledge that the BPDw was feeling slighted -without agreeing with the sentiment or defending or rationalizing what may have been the reason.   An  "Yeah I can see how that would make you feel badly."  and answering questions about why it happened with "I don't know what my niece was thinking"  would probably be as far as I would have gone and then not discussed it any further, other than "But I would still like to go" if I wanted to go.  

As was mentioned within this thread, either the niece is "clueless' or was in fact probably responding a bit to the negative interactions she has had with CDH's BPDw.  She, however, doesn't need to be taught anything.  

My family has started drawing back from my BPDw as she continues to alienate.  I have no intention in helping them "learn" anything, other than to set boundaries that protect themselves from the ravages of BPD - and set my own so I can still have a r/s with them.

   ?  

[CodependentHusband]

I have a bit of a problem with this. While I appreciate your attempt to validate (you're right, it's very important to feel understood for us folk with BPD), a significant part of recovery is learning to manage one's own feelings. This is almost like an external brake vs. an internal brake and the goal of recovery is to finally be able to respond, not react when our feelings get intense. But perhaps your wife is not in therapy yet? Does she know anything about DBT skills like mindfulness? Forgive me if I'm being too personal...

You're not getting too personal. I'm sharing here, and I appreciate you all sharing with me. This IS a tricky situation to me, where there is no cut and dried right answer. My wife started some informal therapy a couple of months ago, and I was hoping that she would continue. Unfortunately, she missed an appointment and has not rescheduled. I have radically accepted her choices on treatment, so, I will not be doing anything to encourage her into therapy or any type of treatment. It is a trigger for her in that it serves to make her feel inferior to me. It may well be that she is too scared to face therapy... whatever the reasons, they are hers, and my choice is to stay or leave. Of course, I have chosen to stay for now. She knows that I support her treatment decisions, and that I am more than willing to help her in any way possible.

As for my current situation with the invitation... She is so very worried about losing me due to my family's negative view of her (magnified in her mind to a large extent, I am convinced). It is a VERY real fear to her, and as her husband I need for her to know that I am here for her. I can't control my family... I can't control my dBPDw, but I can control how I respond to each and every one of them. It's not my job to stand up for my wife, but I do feel compelled to do something about how I respond. I don't want to be misunderstood by anyone, my wife or my FOO.

[CodependentHusband]

And I dont suppose they would appologise for not getting it right in the first place. These things have a habit of blowing up dont they.
...
Sorry its a bit blunt, but I'm actually really feeling for your wife at the moment. And feeling for you too as a matter of fact. 

Happiest,
    Thanks for all of your input on this thread. I really appreciate your perspective! No need to apologize for anything you wrote! I think that EVERYONE should feel bad for my wife in this situation. Like so many things that set  someone with BPD off, these are real things that would hurt anyone. It's their lack of ability to work through their emotions and think rationally when emotions are high that causes the real problems.

As a non, these things that happen in the gray areas (my niece's ignorance of ettiquette, as opposed to acting with malice) are among the hardest to deal with. Even with the level of acceptance that I have for the way things are in my r/s, it IS hard to accept being blamed for actions that clearly I have no influence over. Ahh, but alas, by last night, she was happy yet again! And I didn't ride the rollercoaster with her this time, but, instead, just checked in on her until she got calm enough and wanted to talk about things. So, she's good until her next crisis. 

[iluminati]

I think you're handling it right.  My family has the same issue with my wife, not just because of BPD rage, but because she tends to take out stuff on my fam she can't do with hers.  The key is to just let it drop.  She knows she screwed up.  Let her take the loss.

[tuum est61]

She knows she screwed up.  Let her take the loss.

Illuminati - Do you honestly think CDH's W knows she screwed up and took a loss or did she just begin the reverse swing in the BPD emotional pendulum?  

CDH and Happiest -  I am going to say it again - we need to detach from the emotions of our pwBPD - for our own good, and not necessarily for theirs.  And I am saying this knowing full well that I am "accomodating" my W's BPD behaviour relative to my d14.  Perhaps check my thread entitled "Hole in my Soul".  There isn't  much "feeling for my wife"  re alienation of my d14 by my BPDw in the comments.  

And forgive my brashness as I battle for understanding of what to do next... ?