Those of you who left...

[Think About It...]

I stayed with my BPDh for longer than I should have 'for the kids' sake.' Then I read somewhere that kids would rather say they came from a broken home than to live in one.

Absolutely.  All I wanted for Christmas as a kid, was for one of my parents to get out of the house.  What kid prays for their parents to get divorced?  Kids who have a parent that is NPD/BPD, just like me.

My parents finally split when I was 16 and at that point, it came as a bit of a shock to me, because I had already resigned myself to this sort of home life.  It was also distressing for me because my dad left, and I was stuck with my NPD/BPD mom and all of her misplaced rage.  But the two of them staying together did NO ONE any good.

In retrospect, I wish my dad would have left when I was younger like he wanted to.  At least then, maybe he could have gotten himself healthy, found a healthy female role-model for me, and maybe I could have had a step-mom to rely on.  AND I would have had a model for a healthy relationship (which I never saw).  At the very least, it would have given me someplace calm to go to, at least a few times a week.  Instead, I was stuck enduring a chaotic, abusive, crazy-making home life -- and 20 years later, I'm STILL suffering the affects of it.

I've never believed in the concept of "staying for the kids."  Your kids don't want you to stay.  Yes, I cried when my parents told me they were getting divorced.  But that's because change is scary.  Not because someone didn't need to leave.

Just my perspective.   

[G.J.]

I stayed with my BPDh for longer than I should have 'for the kids' sake.' Then I read somewhere that kids would rather say they came from a broken home than to live in one.

Absolutely.  All I wanted for Christmas as a kid, was for one of my parents to get out of the house.  What kid prays for their parents to get divorced?  Kids who have a parent that is NPD/BPD, just like me.

My parents finally split when I was 16 and at that point, it came as a bit of a shock to me, because I had already resigned myself to this sort of home life.  It was also distressing for me because my dad left, and I was stuck with my NPD/BPD mom and all of her misplaced rage.  But the two of them staying together did NO ONE any good.

In retrospect, I wish my dad would have left when I was younger like he wanted to.  At least then, maybe he could have gotten himself healthy, found a healthy female role-model for me, and maybe I could have had a step-mom to rely on.  AND I would have had a model for a healthy relationship (which I never saw).  At the very least, it would have given me someplace calm to go to, at least a few times a week.  Instead, I was stuck enduring a chaotic, abusive, crazy-making home life -- and 20 years later, I'm STILL suffering the affects of it.

I've never believed in the concept of "staying for the kids."  Your kids don't want you to stay.  Yes, I cried when my parents told me they were getting divorced.  But that's because change is scary.  Not because someone didn't need to leave.

Just my perspective.   

[G.J.]

PS - If you don't think exposing your kids to this kind of abuse and chaos has no longterm affects on them, consider this:

Both my sister and I are in our 30's.  We've both been through a tremendous amount of counseling.  Neither of us has ever been married.  And both of us have been in several abusive relationships with NPD/BPD's.  Mind you, other than some "bullying" type behavior, there wasn't very much "physical violence" in our home growing up.

This is my 2nd round on this board (despite my best efforts to avoid a repeat).  My first bf that got me on this board threatened to pour napalm on me and light me on fire if I ever left him.  The most recent guy reduced me to panic attacks, fearing for my safety, and ultimately damaged my career.

My sister -- just this morning -- left her bf, after he punched her repeatedly in the face, gave her a bloody nose, split open her lip, and badly bruised her arm.  Her bf is currently in jail.  This is the SECOND time he has done this to her -- she went back for more, and I suspect is going to again when the dust settles.  I fully expect that the next time I see her, she will be in the ER.

Unconsciously, children tend to repeat what they saw during their childhoods.  If they never saw anything healthy, they won't know what healthy looks like when it comes along.  People ask me why I have tolerated verbally abusive behavior.  My T says it's because my "abusive behavior meter" got pegged as a child, and I don't recognize it until it's WAY out of hand and almost too late.

Don't stay for your kids.  LEAVE for your kids.   

[GreenMango]

The key is, once you've gotten out, you MUST insulate yourself -- even IF you don't think you have to.  YOU DO HAVE TO.  Change your number or block his numbers.  Change your locks.  Get reinforced locks or a house alarm.  Have neighbors watching your house and people regularly checking in on you.  Do not be afraid to call the police.  In your situation, I would ABSOLUTELY get a TRO.  Heck, you could probably just go that route right now, and get him forcibly removed from your home, and avoid all this drama.

After that, he becomes the Police's problem.  Yes, a TRO is only a piece of paper.  But if you're careful in the first few weeks afterwards (don't leave your house without a friend, even set up Nanny Cams outside your house, get motion sensor lights outside your house -- that sort of stuff) he'll either cool down, or get himself locked up.  Police don't take this stuff lightly.  And neither should you.

Wow GJ-
All this advice and how to secure yourself was very informative.  Really sorry to hear you are going through this...but you seem to very level headed and handling it as well as you possibly can.

Momtario-
What GJ said about the TRO and letting him get himself locked up might be an oppurtune time to file for divorce.  It is possible that having criminal charges brought against him and him serving time might work really well for you in securing a more favorable divorce for yourself, safety for you and the kids, and a pleasant future in your home.

Take Care-
GM

[jessicapuppy]

I stayed with my BPDh for longer than I should have 'for the kids' sake.' Then I read somewhere that kids would rather say they came from a broken home than to live in one.

Absolutely.  All I wanted for Christmas as a kid, was for one of my parents to get out of the house.  What kid prays for their parents to get divorced?  Kids who have a parent that is NPD/BPD, just like me.

My parents finally split when I was 16 and at that point, it came as a bit of a shock to me, because I had already resigned myself to this sort of home life.  It was also distressing for me because my dad left, and I was stuck with my NPD/BPD mom and all of her misplaced rage.  But the two of them staying together did NO ONE any good.

In retrospect, I wish my dad would have left when I was younger like he wanted to.  At least then, maybe he could have gotten himself healthy, found a healthy female role-model for me, and maybe I could have had a step-mom to rely on.  AND I would have had a model for a healthy relationship (which I never saw).  At the very least, it would have given me someplace calm to go to, at least a few times a week.  Instead, I was stuck enduring a chaotic, abusive, crazy-making home life -- and 20 years later, I'm STILL suffering the affects of it.

I've never believed in the concept of "staying for the kids."  Your kids don't want you to stay.  Yes, I cried when my parents told me they were getting divorced.  But that's because change is scary.  Not because someone didn't need to leave.

Just my perspective.   

I used to pray my parents would separate.  At the time I always thought if it happened, I'd stay with my Dad.  Knowing what I know now, neither of them would have been a good option.  I always wanted to be taken into care.  Even now I have an amount of resentment for all of the people (family, neighbours, friends) who turned a blind eye and left me there.

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[G.J.]

I always wanted to be taken into care.  Even now I have an amount of resentment for all of the people (family, neighbours, friends) who turned a blind eye and left me there.

Wow, JP.  I didn't know anyone else felt that way.  Me too.  I've tried to forgive my aunt, grandmother, closest friends' parents, neighbors, etc for turning a blind eye and leaving me there.  Took me 2 years of therapy to get over my resentment towards my father for leaving me there while he was shacked up with his new girlfriend, and couldn't see his way through to taking on a teenager.

My dxBPDex-bf had two kids, and I suspect their mother is NPD.  Both his and her family's are massively screwed up.  So his kids seemed to look to me for their source of stability and their "way out" of this mess.  That's one of the reasons I found it SO difficult to leave this guy.  I identified SO heavily with his kids, and the thought of abandoning them was akin to being one of those people who left me there when I was a kid.  I at LEAST wanted to get him stable and in therapy before I abandoned them.  Never happened.  I now suspect he is also NPD, so all hope is gone.

Only when my own life crumbled and I could no longer be of any use to them, did I allow myself to finally leave him.  But I will carry guilt about that for the rest of my life, and will always pray for them.  But it's also given me some insight into why other people may not have gotten involved.  They may have realized that they couldn't have saved me, even if they had tried.

[jessicapuppy]

Hi G.J.

As a young child I used to think horrible thoughts, that I would feel terrible about, afterwards.  I used to hope that they would never come back to the house, due to an accident or alike.  That would have meant I could go into care without causing trauma to the family.  I always wanted to leave, but I had a sister, who was not directly being picked on as an abuse target.  If I'd have told Social Services (and believe me, I seriously considered it many times) it would have meant her being taken into care too.

At the age of 11 I had already started reading ads in the paper for property to rent!  I used to dream of getting my own little flat, and being free from my life as I knew it.

There are certainly people in my life who would have felt that they had their hands tied with respect to getting me out of my situation, but there were also people who could have helped even anonymously, had they cared enough. 
In particular, I am thinking about my next-door neighbours.  Our walls were paper thin, and the amount of abuse they heard through them would have been immense!  We're talking about years of abuse, and they were well aware of both of my parents mental health issues.  I always remember years later, after I'd long been left home, those neighbours had the cheek to catch me one day, and almost acknowledge what I went through.  I don't know how it came up in conversation, but they said something along the lines of knowing what I went through, but that it mustn't have been that bad for me, as I was never a 'wilting rose'!    What those ignorant people didn't know, was that I wasn't ok.  I was far from ok, and the emotional scars would never truly heal.  They assumed that because I was quite confident and outspoken, and not cowering in a corner, I must be fine and they were justified in not helping me.    They didn't have a clue that every day I struggled to put on a smiley front, desperate for people to like me, and therefore was bullied right through school. 

I actually think that the old couple were looking for me to tell them that I didn't suffer, to ease their consciences.

In your situation with your ex's kids, I assume it's not quite as straight forward.  If I've understood correctly, he doesn't physically abuse them?  Even if you told the authorities how concerned for their welfare you are, if an outsider can't prove abuse with evidence such as cuts and bruises, or statements that you've seen him physically abuse them, then any official going to visit the home would only see your ex's charming side, and it would be his word against yours.

I can imagine it must be truly frustrating for you to not be able to help the children, but the guilt is not yours to carry, as you've done nothing wrong.  You could always leave the door open for them to approach you as time goes on.  At least by getting out when you did, you will be in a better emotional place to help them, if one day they do come to you.   

How old are they?

JP
x

[G.J.]

JP,

I'm really sorry for what you went through.  Only my dad has finally acknowledged how badly my mother treated me growing up.  Everyone else in my family likes to just avoid the topic, although they're all well aware.  I think I'd be pretty angry if someone said something like that to me as well.  I guess you have to try to forgive some people for having had the luxury of being weaker than we were able to be.

My sister wasn't nearly the target of abuse that I was either.  She was basically passive through our childhood.  I, like you, was a lot more confident and outspoken as well.  Little did I realize at the time, that made me more of a threat to my mother.

As for my ex's kids, it's D12 and S10.  He was pretty enmeshed with D12 when I met him.  And he alienates S10 quite badly.  There hasn't been any physical abuse that I'm aware of.  And certainly, he would charm anyone if confronted.  His ex-wife knows there's a big problem, but I fear that she's only slightly less disordered than he is.  Besides, I'm not sure what she could do anyway.

I did leave myself open to the kids.  I told them that I'm not abandoning them, and to keep my phone number.  I told them that even if we haven't spoken in 6 months or 10 years -- to please call me if they need me.  I was hoping they'd remember that.

Problem is, my ex-bf is now using that against me.  This morning, he had S10 text me to say hello (because I have my ex's phone number blocked -- and he has his kids this weekend).      It crushed me, but I ignored it.  My ex has emailed me twice this week and has shown up at my house at least twice this week.  I ignored all of that, and I can't afford to teach him that he can use his kids to get to me.

[jessicapuppy]

Hi there

Oh I'm fine with things now, thank you.  I have built a relationship with my parents now, but I can only cope with seeing them in very small doses.  I was fifteen when I eventually snapped and walked out.

Perhaps when things have died down a bit, and your ex has found a new partner, you can open up contact with the kids again.  Could you perhaps reply to the text you got today, once you know that the kids will be back with their mother during the week?  I suppose you could just say that you're thinking of them, or something?

It's funny how the abuse can only be targeted at one child, and not other siblings, isn't it?  I never figured that out.

JP
x

[G.J.]

Perhaps when things have died down a bit, and your ex has found a new partner, you can open up contact with the kids again.

I don't feel the need to stay in close contact with them.  Their mother didn't appreciate my existence in their life (extreme jealousy) so I don't think it would serve any useful purpose, other than to just incite to riot.

Could you perhaps reply to the text you got today, once you know that the kids will be back with their mother during the week?  I suppose you could just say that you're thinking of them, or something?

A friend of mine suggested the same thing.  I'm thinking about it.  I suspect it will just get back to him and he'll try again.  Also, there's no telling if it was actually my ex, using S10's phone.  I don't know that there's much I can practically do for them at any rate.  I just didn't want them to feel like I was abandoning them or that I didn't care deeply for them.  And I figured if things got REALLY bad and they felt like they had nowhere to turn (because too many people don't know what goes on in their family, but they know I do and often confided in me), maybe they'd think of me and reach out.  I dunno.

It's funny how the abuse can only be targeted at one child, and not other siblings, isn't it?  I never figured that out.

Yeah, that may be the BPD aspect of it (I personally think NPD and BPD are somewhat one in the same, with distinguished variations making the two seem "separate").  Painting one white and the other black.  Seeing one as a threat where the other is not.  D12 mostly gives my ex positive feedback, which he thrives off of.  When she doesn't, he doesn't have much use for her.  S10 has (reportedly) always had a problem with my ex, which wounds his ego greatly, so he is usually quite harsh with him.  The only time he was GREAT with S10 was when he was angry with me.  When I became black, then both D12 and S10 became white.

What a legacy to leave your children though.  Makes me wish they required Psych Evals for people to be allowed to procreate.   


Sorry for the thread-hijack momtario!       

[jessicapuppy]

Yep, I have often thought the same about the procreating test!

If you don't feel the need to be in close contact with them, then it'll probably be a lot better for you if you don't.  I can totally see how it is making you feel, though. 

Momtario...how are you feeling now?  Is all calm on the H front tonight?  Are you still feeling low?   

[G.J.]

JP -- I've been NC from my mother for 9 years now.  I don't intend on changing that.  I've been NC for 3+ years with my ex-fiance that first brought me to this board several years ago, and that will not change.  And I went NC with my ex-bf a week ago.  Sadly, that can't change either.  He's just not healthy enough to be in my life, in any capacity.  I was hoping that wouldn't be the case, but sadly, it's reality.


momtario -- I'm hoping you're doing ok.  Would love to hear how you're feeling these days.   

[1bravegirl]

Hi Momtario,

Let me start by saying 'What an eye opening thread here!'  man.. So much pertinent information for all of us, those that want to leave and are struggling with not knowing if we can do it, those of us like myself that have left after being in a very very long r/s and marriage of 25 long years and basically like yourself found it very difficult to understand what would be the last straw?

Why did I keep putting up with the verbal and sometimes physical abuse again and again?  I too was basically brow beat and verbally screamed at and just treated so horribly if I didn't give in to his sexual demands, and when I tried to stand up for myself it just got so ugly.
I ended up 'sometimes' just giving in as ugly as it was, just in order to be able to go to sleep.  What horrible memories those are.

But we do have our breaking point and I pray your's doesn't come the way mine did. With my mom dying in a coma a week away from death and me coming home to rest and finding myself on the floor being strangled and having xBPDh telling me 'I should F-ing KiLL YOU!'..

You find out at a certain point that you really have absolutely NO reason to hold onto the r/s anymore.  It all becomes so self defeating really.
And with children, well that is a whole different area of deep complex issues that has been expressed so well here to gleen such great insight from.  Toxicity just like poison will kill everyone in its vicinity. Even just a drop of poison has a way of getting into all your cells and damaging you forever.

I was like Jessica though.. I had already numbed myself from the r/s a few years earlier and said so many times like yourself.. "this is it, I'm done.."  but just didn't have the clarity of mind to see it through.

Until I was basically forced to act.  And I had so much that had happened a few months prior to me getting a TRO that once I filed and asked the Court to make him move out, it passed with flying colors.

I think so many times we do not realize that we have so much more control and power over our situation than we can see.

Just the few things you've shared thus far, and probably just the tip of the iceburg, is PLENTY for you to have him removed and gain sole custody for the timebeing. And eventually with the evidence you have and your own testimony you can turn this in your favor.

Believe me, it's one scary path to travel, but it couldn't be much more scarier than having my then husband strangle me and try to kill me right?
So we do get to a point where either we're gonna die there or possibly die trying to leave.. either way, it was a risk worth taking.  If it meant losing my life in the process...  It was better than not doing anything.

And the fact that he does leave marks on your kids and hurt the animals..  Unexceptable!  I have been there and the pain and anger and lack of control over the situation you feel is unbelievably hard to handle.

Once you decide to move forward and regain your power from a very damaging r/s, you will see things with so much clarity and really understand how brainwashed we were.

It's amazing how much abuse we learn to tolerate and excuse and think we can deal with due to being so controlled and manipulated for so long.
We do get as sick as they are in a different way.  We end up being an extension of their illness. They have all the pent up pain inside of them and we become the instrument to feel it since they cannot feel it for themselves.

As JP brought out, they have to keep blaming us and using us to feel their pain cuz they can't deal with seeing themselves for who they really are.

I left my H 3 yrs ago, stayed away for 2 years and he went to counseling and made so many changes.. blah blah blah.. was home like 3 months and the verbal abuse started again, then things went from bad to worse.

I had a Restraining order in place for 3 yrs and still have it but I allowed him to return since we were together for so long.. like you, I didn't want to feel like a failure or like my life was all for not, and it didn't matter, it still crumbled all around me.  A year to the day I let him back in, I had to move this time and have been dealing with the roughest period in a LONG time..  ON Jan 1st 2012 I moved into another place and now i'm probably moving again soon in order to have my dogs with me and the saga just goes on and on.

The only way to end the madness is to make boundaries for yourself and they WORK!
I had him removed April 2009 (mom died Feb, 2009), he ignored the restraining order and went to jail 4 times. The last time he got 50 days.. well he didn't like that and finally left me alone! So they do get it after a while.. they just need to FEEL some consequences..  or they wont change a thing.

So if I would of just ignored all his rubbish and let him keep putting his money where his mouth was and kept on pressing forward, I would of avoided so much pain! Like 20something years isn't enough right?

You have so much more power than you think to change this scenario.
It is hard not knowing the outcome of certain things, its what kept me frozen in time for the longest.. But what you said about calling the police if and when he does anything violent against you is so important.
Even if he threatens you, or intimidates you and makes you afraid for your safety.  All that counts!

I hope you are journaling all of this and just the rapes alone are so powerful that you can basically turn this around. But you have to call at the time they happen.
All the atrocitie's against YOU count so much! And can be your ticket to freedom and having sole custody of your children!  and the way many BPD fathers are after D and losing their control, they don't end up following through on certain stipulations or being responsible in there end of the deal and you end up getting the things you ask for in the end anyway.  They really do show their true colors given long enough time.

It is a game though and with BPD we have to be very skilled at learning how to play and not be in it with our emotions. That's the hardest part, not feeling sorry for them or getting sucked back in.  As an earlier poster said, it can be really hard to see them in pain, but just remember your own pain and how YOU are the most important person here and your children and without a life long commitment from them getting help and giving it a looooong time to see the fruitage of their work, forget it.  It's so not worth it.. OMG>.  so not worth the pain and disappointment in our hearts.

When I filed for the R/O the most important thing the Judge needed to see was 1) the verbal and physical abuse and the years of that pattern and why I was afraid to leave but finally had had enough!
2) how much I was in fear of him and my personal safety, the safety of my animals, my job, my place of worship, family.
3) what the abuse was doing to me psychologically and the threats against my life he had made.

If you have documentation or emails or anything from him to support your claims, please hold onto them.
Also if you don't do something sooner than later, it can come back to haunt you.

When I finally called the police and told them he had pushed me and was being abusive.. they found out how long we'd been together and one cop said..  "So why are you just now doing something about it?"
what an idiot! like its that cut and dry.

But that's all my H needed to hear cuz then he ran with it and had them believing that I call the police all the time to manipulate them and how I refuse T and how he begs me to go..
the cop ended up saying."She's not going to Manipulate US!"
At that point I realized that he could turn this whole thing around on me so easily and i'd be in trouble.

I had him removed the next week.

So please, remember time is not on your side here and neither is his off and on pattern of abuse.
You can change this very carefully and with much shrewdness and insight.
Stay safe and be careful.. but please.. keep progressing to the other side of this mess.  There is a bettter way to live.  Dont allow it to take anymore years from you and your children. not like this...  
My prayers are with you..  1bg

[momtario]

Thank you everyone, for so much insight. GJ and 1bravegirl, when we shared time on other boards, I always felt your stories were so similar to mine.

Today, I feel numb. He's been FOGging me a lot, and last night was hellish. Not just him, but I didn't get any more than an hour or 2 of sleep. The kids don't sleep well lately.

I did, however, have most of my day yesterday without him, which was peaceful, even if I did have not only my own Ds, but my friends D8 and D6 as well.

All in all, I think he felt he was helping by leaving, and he was probably right.

[1bravegirl]

Hey momtario,  

Yes I remember our stories were similar and I really thought my story would be the one to change the dynamics of the statistics here and be the poster girl for hope... but it was not to be...and boy was I disappointed. It stings so badly really... I must say..

What I'm finding out is, the main reason I had so much power to leave him the first time was... drum roll..."Money!" yep..  that makes a HUGE difference. When your sitting on 50 grand and a new truck and think that you will be just fine, you get a false sense of security and start to think that the money will last forever or something.

Especially since I never had 90K before at one time. Well I ended up living off of it for almost 2 yrs.. as sad as that is.. and once it was gone, he was conveniently back.

So moral of the story... I'm finally having to face my own demons and realize just how co-dependent I am and how damn hard it is to live ON YOUR OWN without any big savings or parents to fall back on.

I can see why so many women stay.. for security..  we end up buying out a so called piece of life for ourselves somewhere in the midst of the abuse and madness and turn the other cheek in order to not have to deal with the 'unknown' or whatever horrible change lies around the corner.. and a good majority of it isn't horrible at all! But we wont find that out until we just jump in the water! 
And yes, there is that really difficult side of financial ruin and possibly poverty as i'm finding out.

It is not a very good exchange and being there with him sometimes seems like an easy way out but we know its not.  It is only pain and more of the same.

The only thing we / or I can do now is keep growing up and learn to stand on my two feet like I should of done a loooong time ago.  48 is a heck of old age to be wakin up to the real world here.

so please keep growing and posting and believing in yourself.  We really can do ANYTHING if we just 'Believe'..  I'm a living testimony to that. let me tell ya..  surprises me still what i've been able to get thru.

So you can DO IT!  love and strength sent your way.. 1bg  

and get some sleep.. nap maybe?

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