Are there more BPDs out there than we think?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

My 2 closest friends are seeing girls and those girls have very similar traits as my exBPD. Push and pull like crazy, avoidant, have multiple guys around, idealize and devalue, very jealous and so on..

Since I've learnt about BPDs after my shocking 'break up' I've reaized the girl I dated prior was BPD as well. She idealized me the first time we met and it was FIRE in bed on the first night. It was clean for about a month going on to the second before she completely shut me off and ran to her best friend (a guy) and they had pics on FB like they were all in love. I wonder if she even gave him any sex really. I wasn't too attached to her so it was okay though a shock.

Are there more BPDs out there than we think? Ones that are undiagnosed? Im starting to the percentage is pretty high, like 2 of every 10 or even more.

[nylonsquid]

My 2 closest friends are seeing girls and those girls have very similar traits as my exBPD. Push and pull like crazy, avoidant, have multiple guys around, idealize and devalue, very jealous and so on..

Since I've learnt about BPDs after my shocking 'break up' I've reaized the girl I dated prior was BPD as well. She idealized me the first time we met and it was FIRE in bed on the first night. It was clean for about a month going on to the second before she completely shut me off and ran to her best friend (a guy) and they had pics on FB like they were all in love. I wonder if she even gave him any sex really. I wasn't too attached to her so it was okay though a shock.

Are there more BPDs out there than we think? Ones that are undiagnosed? Im starting to the percentage is pretty high, like 2 of every 10 or even more.

[GreenMango]

Hey Nylon,
When I finally realized the situation I saw BPD everywhere...my feelers were highly sensitized to the "signs".  And, you are right it may be the stats are too low considering they are built on diagnosed cases, the reluctance of people to seek treatment, etc. 

I'm unsure of what age group your dating pool is, but I can say when I was younger (early twenties) my friends and myself were more open about relationships, not neccesarily looking for long term committed relationships, and the pool is larger. This changes as you age.  I think when you are young there is some common characteristics while dating before the "commitment" stage and some of it is the chase quality of the beginnings of relationship.  But, as relationships progress out of the honeymoon phase naturally, the chase dynamic relaxes.  This is when the security and safety of "real" intimacy comes into the relationship.  On FIRE sex, while is awesome and surprising if it happens the first date, does not equate to real intimacy, hint at a BPD, or hint at soulmates.

It is very difficult, I'd say almost impossible, to diagnosis someone from a single encounter or a single relationship.  Sometimes relationships don't work because the dynamic was mutual disfunction and not neccessarily due to BPD.  BPD is pathological and pervasive, not situational. 

I think this phase will pass...because if it doesn't you may "run" when you might want to just "walk".
-GM

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for analyzing and making the decision to either continue working on your relationship or to leave it. If you have already please advance to "L3 Leaving" or the "L4 Staying" board. All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[Mike76]

My 2 cents.

Yes many more people have BPD then people realize, but...

There are many traits with BPD, I may even have one of them myself. You mentioned the observations you made, and they are probably valid.

At least with my uBPDw, she only hits few of the "sex traits" most of the time.  We waited until we were married. Not sure if I would have seen traits differently if we slept together first.

If you see a few traits in someone they may not have BPD.

I do think a large percent of the the population may have some type of mental illness.

[nylonsquid]

Hey Nylon,
When I finally realized the situation I saw BPD everywhere...my feelers were highly sensitized to the "signs".  And, you are right it may be the stats are too low considering they are built on diagnosed cases, the reluctance of people to seek treatment, etc. 

I'm unsure of what age group your dating pool is, but I can say when I was younger (early twenties) my friends and myself were more open about relationships, not neccesarily looking for long term committed relationships, and the pool is larger. This changes as you age.  I think when you are young there is some common characteristics while dating before the "commitment" stage and some of it is the chase quality of the beginnings of relationship.  But, as relationships progress out of the honeymoon phase naturally, the chase dynamic relaxes.  This is when the security and safety of "real" intimacy comes into the relationship.  On FIRE sex, while is awesome and surprising if it happens the first date, does not equate to real intimacy, hint at a BPD, or hint at soulmates.

It is very difficult, I'd say almost impossible, to diagnosis someone from a single encounter or a single relationship.  Sometimes relationships don't work because the dynamic was mutual disfunction and not neccessarily due to BPD.  BPD is pathological and pervasive, not situational. 

I think this phase will pass...because if it doesn't you may "run" when you might want to just "walk".
-GM

Well, the on 'fire' sex was with a 21 year old. We had an 'intense' connection and it was new to me. The way I described it to my friend was we connected on an emotional level. Im 31 and ADHD. I read that ADHD comes with some BPD traits so I think the emotions are heightened. When I think back on it though, she still wanted sex from me even when she had a bf. She still contacts me every now and then to 'check up'. She also bruised the poor 'friend's' heart many times and she comes with anxiety issues that she warned me about. Whenever I ask about her supposedly 'best' friend, she'd say 'oh thats nothing!' and brushes it off in a negative way though she always seems like the sweetest most innocent girl. The attitude surprised me.

Recently people have been sharing their crazy gf stories because of my situation: After they describe their gfs to me, I pull up BPD symptoms on my iphone and ask them if they apply on the gfs. They look at me and say that its a match. I can't tell if lots of girls are like this hence why some men say 'girls are crazy' or if this is BPD.

I have been with a sweet exgf for 6 years before we broke up. She was calm, understanding and very giving. She was ultimately a codependant and I that didn't work. But after my experience with uexBPDgf I've been realizing there are more and more girls around me who are just that. I can tell me friends what to expect now. They see me as an expert. my uexBPDgf is 30 years old.

The range I experienced is 20 - 30 I guess

[DeityorDevil]

Many many younger people can exhibit borderline-like traits. A lot of the outward appearances of borderline are- sucking at relationships, not dealing with feelings well, feeling extremes of high and low emotion- Those are pretty common across the board, especially for people in their early 20's. In teenagers, they're pretty much universal.

To be honest, a lot of borderline behavior seems kind of encouraged by media (tv, movies, etc.) How many romantic comedies have a female protagonist crossing someone's boundaries in an extreme way, or triangulating (read definition) with a stranger to get their beloved's intention? How many have a male protagonist stalking "his girl" and acting out in public to finally get her attention? Fewer people learn how to behave from other well-adjusted adults now-a-days, and more and more people seem to be learning how to behave as adults, from movies and television shows, and viewing that as "normal."

[Applehead]

Nylon, I'm with you man!  After I found out about BPD 3 years ago I know for a fact that 2 of my exgf have come clean and told me that they were diagnosed with it but when I bring up the subject to ask questions from time to time and would have nothing to say about it and terminated the call in less than a minute.  I don't see BP under ever rock either, meaning I don't over generalize that all girls have it but I now the signs well and have done extensive reading on it for years and I'm 47 and have been single my whole life.  Looking back I know of at least 7 wBPD I've dated and past crazy r/s have made more sense to me.  I think its even worse dating in your 40's bc most unpersonality disorder women are married and the ratio of wBPD is much higher bc they're the singles ones out there.  That my theory at least.  Several years ago my exBPDgf of 7 years was killed in a freak car accident and I had 3 hot girls I met and were there for me bc I was devastated.  My ex and I were broken up for a year and a half before accident but were still fighting so we were in contact frequently.  All 3 were BPD.  They all idolized me at first and all have turned on me since.  I was perfect bc I wasn't a threat to their fear of abandonment bc I was emotionally disconnect bc of the hurt I was going through and they got to chase me and I at the time wasn't capable of giving them full attention bc of the pain I was in. After a year when I was mostly healed and wanted a r/s the BPD came out in all of them and they turned into different people.  Many of my friends would vent about their gf's and wives and many had BPD symptoms.  You're dead on that there is a whole subculture of BP out there bc of sure of the high divorse rates and the degradation of society of children being raised by alcoholics and such. 

[PDQuick]

You know fellas, there is a difference between a woman with BPD, a woman who shows traits of BPD, a woman that has a low emotional maturity level, and a woman that is just out to have fun, and get her way. The trouble comes about for us, is when we lack the ability to determine the difference between them all, simply because we are already setting up the structure of the relationship we want, prematurely in our heads. We tend to see what we want to see, and connect with them on the levels that line up with our own desires.

I know I was guilty of thinking something like:
"OMG the sex is amazing, I don't ever want to lose her."

I associated sex with love. It's easy to do. I thought I was in love. Could happen.
I associated the feeling I got when she idolized me as love. Hey, it felt good. I'm on top of the world. Im the best, I knew it.

It turned out that my own emotional maturity, or lack thereof, had a hand in all of this. I took a person who made me feel good, on several instances, and wanted to build an entire relationship around it. Then when complications arose, I tried to dismiss it, fight it, do anything about it, to get back to the "me feeling good" part, because really, that's all I really liked.

So guys, what is it about a person suffering from BPD that scares you the most?

[nylonsquid]

You know fellas, there is a difference between a woman with BPD, a woman who shows traits of BPD, a woman that has a low emotional maturity level, and a woman that is just out to have fun, and get her way. The trouble comes about for us, is when we lack the ability to determine the difference between them all, simply because we are already setting up the structure of the relationship we want, prematurely in our heads. We tend to see what we want to see, and connect with them on the levels that line up with our own desires.

I know I was guilty of thinking something like:
"OMG the sex is amazing, I don't ever want to lose her."

I associated sex with love. It's easy to do. I thought I was in love. Could happen.
I associated the feeling I got when she idolized me as love. Hey, it felt good. I'm on top of the world. Im the best, I knew it.

It turned out that my own emotional maturity, or lack thereof, had a hand in all of this. I took a person who made me feel good, on several instances, and wanted to build an entire relationship around it. Then when complications arose, I tried to dismiss it, fight it, do anything about it, to get back to the "me feeling good" part, because really, that's all I really liked.

So guys, what is it about a person suffering from BPD that scares you the most?

I still struggle to find answers for what happened in my relationship. I'd say I have no fear in looking at myself critically and self reflect. I know I also have some BPD traits based on my ADHD. However, I don't act on impulses like my current ex did. Not when things are/were going well. All I knew is that I DID feel good, SHE LOVED the sex and that made me feel good, we had so much in common (arts, intellectually, sports, humour) but we did have differences. Those differences were mostly her insecurities, being overly jealous (pathologically), and manipulative. I just thought this is kind of charming and it's about communicating and working things through, no? I mean, that's how I maintained a relationship for 6 years.

2 months later when things were getting good again she told me she had a problem to deal with because it's interfering with our relationship. Made her tell me and it was about her ex (2 exes ago) from 4 YEARS AGO! Holy molly! I told her to take a week/few days to think things through. She comes back and says she finds out its not about him but us. That it won't work because we are fundementally different. This was insanity to me because all I knew is we got along amazingly and even through that argument we ended up laughing and joking and in bed. I asked her what the hell is going on now because we obviously have a deep connection. We stay a bit distant and she goes on holiday and comes back on NYE only for us to get in bed again. I took it slow but that week or 2 she started feeling crappy again after she wanted me to be close. She was so paranoid asking me why I dont kiss her in front of everyone (while at work!) and claimed its because there are other girls around. She then said I had a guilty face on me. This was very confusing to me. I realized she's projecting and she's seeing someone. She's the one guilty. She told me on the weekend she's seeing someone and it's 'complicated'. She wants us to be friends even though we STILL have a strong attraction and she says 'hmm, so this won't work'. This is sooo dumb. I don't get it. Please tell me if this is a straight up BPD or not? Am I crazy here?

Are some girls just troubled and need a comforting hand? When is a troubled girl troubled enough to be handed a 'disorder' stamp? It's becoming vague to me after my 'it aaaall makes sense now!' moment.

Confused

[GreenMango]

All I knew is that I DID feel good, SHE LOVED the sex and that made me feel good, we had so much in common (arts, intellectually, sports, humour) but we did have differences.

I would ask myself how I measure what mutual love is...there is a difference between shared values and shared interests.  You can have a difference in interests and share values...or a sharing of interests and different values.  The latter can be a recipe for hurt in a relationship if you are looking for a longterm partner.  Knowing my own values and how to discern that helps me measure the "potential" this person has in being an appropriate partner.  I find shared interests are fun, but they only go so far.

Interests:
Arts
Sports
Humor
Sex...

Values:
Honesty
Fidelity
Communication
Intimacy...

-GM

[nylonsquid]

All I knew is that I DID feel good, SHE LOVED the sex and that made me feel good, we had so much in common (arts, intellectually, sports, humour) but we did have differences.

I would ask myself how I measure what mutual love is...there is a difference between shared values and shared interests.  You can have a difference in interests and share values...or a sharing of interests and different values.  The latter can be a recipe for hurt in a relationship if you are looking for a longterm partner.  Knowing my own values and how to discern that helps me measure the "potential" this person has in being an appropriate partner.  I find shared interests are fun, but they only go so far.

Interests:
Arts
Sports
Humor
Sex...

Values:
Honesty
Fidelity
Communication
Intimacy...

-GM

I assumed everyone valued the values you mention. Am I wrong in that? I feel like I have these in addition to the interests we share. This is why it's confusing for me. I know now she doesn't have these values though she always told me she was loyal and loving and blablabla.. her actions didn't show it though. Not really supportive and giving. I know these things I value but at the same time I expect others to see these values in me so they'd also try because I thought everyone wants these values.

[GreenMango]

I assumed everyone valued the values you mention. Am I wrong in that? I feel like I have these in addition to the interests we share. This is why it's confusing for me. I know now she doesn't have these values though she always told me she was loyal and loving and blablabla.. her actions didn't show it though. Not really supportive and giving. I know these things I value but at the same time I expect others to see these values in me so they'd also try because I thought everyone wants these values.

You know that old saying about assuming right?  A person can say a lot of things when they want something.  I have found the true test of this is to see if their words and actions match.  Words and actions matching speaks of a person's character and integrity...or at least to some of their motivations.  I made the mistake for a long time that people knew my values and I failed to articulate them clearly.  I also made the mistake of assuming shared values. 

-GM

[nylonsquid]

I assumed everyone valued the values you mention. Am I wrong in that? I feel like I have these in addition to the interests we share. This is why it's confusing for me. I know now she doesn't have these values though she always told me she was loyal and loving and blablabla.. her actions didn't show it though. Not really supportive and giving. I know these things I value but at the same time I expect others to see these values in me so they'd also try because I thought everyone wants these values.

-GM

You're right. I guess I felt after the break up that I had to speak up about my values and about a future. I think I did a great job of that to which she responds jokingly 'I'll keep that in mind'. I was almost insulted. Since then it was on in Jan then off. I think I saw her only 2 or 3 times in February. Isn't that a terrible sign? That she has no strong desire to contact me? It's pathetic on my end to be stuck on her really.
You know that old saying about assuming right?  A person can say a lot of things when they want something.  I have found the true test of this is to see if their words and actions match.  Words and actions matching speaks of a person's character and integrity...or at least to some of their motivations.  I made the mistake for a long time that people knew my values and I failed to articulate them clearly.  I also made the mistake of assuming shared values. 

[PDQuick]

It's a good lesson for sure, Words Vs. Actions. I was way guilty of believing her words, and then scratching my head wondering why she told me she would do one thing, and then going and doing another. I men, I do what I say I'm gonna do, so I ASSUMED she would too.

In my wise old age of 41, I have some things that I now take for gospel. I will share them with you.

Value compatibility is a must. But, I don't listen, I watch.

If you talk bad about your ex's, I am just going to take it to heart that one day you will be talking bad about me.
If I catch you lying to a friend, then I am a friend of yours, and you will eventually lie to me as well.
If I see you mistreat, or con someone you are close to, then I know it will head my way one day.
If you constantly complain about everyone in your life to me, and then are nice to them to their face, I know I am being complained about.

These are really simple, and the list can go on for hours. But I'm sure you all get the drift. All of these, by the way, I observed while with my ex, and it actually makes me laugh to look back and wonder why I was surprised when those very things happened to me too.

Interests, like Green Mango said are cool, if you share them, but I need my space, and she needs her space. I used to be a smothering type that wanted to be with my girlfriend every minute, but now, I see that I did that because I didn't trust her, and wanted to be there, in a manipulative fashion, to try to make sure she didn't do anything that I didn't want her to do. Now I know that I can't really trust someone until I give them the space to prove themselves trustworthy. It's backwards from everything I have always thought. Also, I have discovered that I'm a pretty good guy, and I deserve some me time.

I have learned to let down my own self, so that I can take in what is in front of me. Instead of me putting her in the role I want her to be in, she will have to show me that she wants to be there. I used to try to put them in there, and hope they fit. WRONGO!

Are some girls just troubled and need a comforting hand? When is a troubled girl troubled enough to be handed a 'disorder' stamp? It's becoming vague to me after my 'it aaaall makes sense now!' moment.

I used to want to know where the line was that "troubled" ended, and a disorder started. But, then it hit me. Why would I want a troubled girl?

It's like a boat. Where does the boat become so broken, and in a state of disrepair, that it is deemed unseaworthy? If I want a boat to enjoy boating, and fishing, and all of the things a boat brings, why would I want to get one that I have to try to fix, and hope that it holds water? I'm no boat builder!

What I am concerned with now is, does she understand me, and conducts herself accordingly? Does she communicate, rather than play games? Do our desires of life work well with each other? Does she fit the space, and need I am looking for, without me pressuring her to do so?

Think about it. We know what we want. The question becomes, how much of ourselves are we willing to give up, and sacrifice, to get it? My answer then, was everything. My answer now is very little, because I have spent a long time, finding out who I am, and building myself.

[GreenMango]

Value compatibility is a must. But, I don't listen, I watch...

If you talk bad about your ex's, I am just going to take it to heart that one day you will be talking bad about me...
 
These are really simple, and the list can go on for hours.

I've made these same mistakes about mismatched values before too. 

I'd like to add that finding out if your values match and about their character can take some time.  A person may show you on the first date, or they may show you after the "honeymoon" period at the beginning of the relationship...either way they are showing you.  The redflags that speak to character or a mismatch in values can often be overlooked by being "sex drunk", our own unhealthy needs, or infatuation.  This is why the beginnings of a relationship, the first year, is critical.  I like to slow down now because it helps me to make a more informed choice.
 
-GM