Does anyone have an adult son in jail? Safety issues?

[Think About It...]

cfh - what is the sentence if probation is violated? I live in CO and have had some contact through 2 sil's and my BPDDD with the courts and jails here. As long as he checks in with his probation and avoids police contact he may make it through. They usually work with violations for a bit before them getting back to jail. My SIL had 2-6 year prison sentence for felony menacing and 3rd degree assault. He had 2 years probation. He checked into program that was partnership between probation dept and county mental health. In our county it is called PACE program. Does your son have any drug/alcohol monitoring conditions on his probation? if so, this is all managed by this program.

The harsh reality is that my SIL really did not participate in the program - he used this lie to get to stay at my house. He did have to serve 12 months in county jail then 2 years probation to avoid state prison. He bolted and left the state after we kicked him out of our house. So this did not work for him --- he was not ready to make it work for him. No amount of support from me or my DD could make him ready to do this work.

It is so very sad but true that our young adult kids have to find the courage and strength to put themselves into their own recovery. You can put opportunities before him, which you have clearly done over and over and over. It is hard, and I am struggling to find my own path to doing this with my DD (facing jail time for DUI last week) - but it going to be up to her to find the ways to survive the consequences of her choices and yes, sometimes of 'fate' -

Know that my thoughts and prayers are with you and you son. Keep finding the opportunites to put before him, maybe he will find what he needs to create a better outcome for himself.

qcr

Gamegirl - you posted while I was typing my reply. Our county jail offers some mental health care - very limited - and the inmate has to be aware enought to fill out the form to ask for it. He also has to be able to ask for this HIMSELF from his PO.  My experience is they will not listen to anyone but the parolee as an adult. If he cannot advocate for himself, it is hard to get what he needs. Hope he can get into a partnership PO program with the mental health piece built in.  Still - it is up to him to participate in whatever program is offered - he will have to find his own means of survival.

Nope.  Family members can call the PO.  It all depends on which one you get.  And this is Probation, not parole - an entirely different animal.  If he is living with the family, they can talk to the PO.    A good PO assumes the person is lying and often relies on the family for the real story.  They want all the info they can get.  If Mom gives this guys history and tells her fears to PO and hints that she might put him out of the house if his mental health problems become out of control he will have a stipulation to FACT the next day for no other reason than FACT takes a lot of this stuff out of the PO's hands and that makes life easier for the PO.

You can also go right up the ladder with the county if the PO thing doesn't work.  This gets results.   When the person posted about NAMI going in to the prison, this is what happened.  The NAMI person knew someone at the county who lit a fire at the prison and did an FACT referral.   Even if your kid does not want an ACT/FACT referall, you can still make one.  they have a way of engaging with people who don't want them around.  That is what they are trained to do.  Usually if they can get in the door one time with a client, they can pull them in.  None of the clients want treatment prior to referall.  That is how they got so sick.  I am honestly kind of shocked that your DDs caseworker is still futzing around with her and has not referred her to an ACT team.  Clearly what is happening is not working.  She is not engaging.  She needs to be actively pursued and engaged because her judgement is so bad she does not recognize the need for help.  That is why teams like ACT exist.  Have you thought about calling up higher in the county mental health system and asking for a referall?

And...if Mom presents son to PO with all the criteria for FACT 1) drug abuse 2) mulitple hospitalizations 3) trouble with the law 4) risk of homelesness 5) failure of traditional treatments - the PO must consider stipulation or he is negligent.  That is if there is a FACT team in the county.  You can find out by googling or ask your local mental health center where the nearest team is.  They can cross county lines if no services exist where the client is.

[GameGirl]

cfh - what is the sentence if probation is violated? I live in CO and have had some contact through 2 sil's and my BPDDD with the courts and jails here. As long as he checks in with his probation and avoids police contact he may make it through. They usually work with violations for a bit before them getting back to jail. My SIL had 2-6 year prison sentence for felony menacing and 3rd degree assault. He had 2 years probation. He checked into program that was partnership between probation dept and county mental health. In our county it is called PACE program. Does your son have any drug/alcohol monitoring conditions on his probation? if so, this is all managed by this program.

The harsh reality is that my SIL really did not participate in the program - he used this lie to get to stay at my house. He did have to serve 12 months in county jail then 2 years probation to avoid state prison. He bolted and left the state after we kicked him out of our house. So this did not work for him --- he was not ready to make it work for him. No amount of support from me or my DD could make him ready to do this work.

It is so very sad but true that our young adult kids have to find the courage and strength to put themselves into their own recovery. You can put opportunities before him, which you have clearly done over and over and over. It is hard, and I am struggling to find my own path to doing this with my DD (facing jail time for DUI last week) - but it going to be up to her to find the ways to survive the consequences of her choices and yes, sometimes of 'fate' -

Know that my thoughts and prayers are with you and you son. Keep finding the opportunites to put before him, maybe he will find what he needs to create a better outcome for himself.

qcr

Gamegirl - you posted while I was typing my reply. Our county jail offers some mental health care - very limited - and the inmate has to be aware enought to fill out the form to ask for it. He also has to be able to ask for this HIMSELF from his PO.  My experience is they will not listen to anyone but the parolee as an adult. If he cannot advocate for himself, it is hard to get what he needs. Hope he can get into a partnership PO program with the mental health piece built in.  Still - it is up to him to participate in whatever program is offered - he will have to find his own means of survival.

Nope.  Family members can call the PO.  It all depends on which one you get.  And this is Probation, not parole - an entirely different animal.  If he is living with the family, they can talk to the PO.    A good PO assumes the person is lying and often relies on the family for the real story.  They want all the info they can get.  If Mom gives this guys history and tells her fears to PO and hints that she might put him out of the house if his mental health problems become out of control he will have a stipulation to FACT the next day for no other reason than FACT takes a lot of this stuff out of the PO's hands and that makes life easier for the PO.

You can also go right up the ladder with the county if the PO thing doesn't work.  This gets results.   When the person posted about NAMI going in to the prison, this is what happened.  The NAMI person knew someone at the county who lit a fire at the prison and did an FACT referral.   Even if your kid does not want an ACT/FACT referall, you can still make one.  they have a way of engaging with people who don't want them around.  That is what they are trained to do.  Usually if they can get in the door one time with a client, they can pull them in.  None of the clients want treatment prior to referall.  That is how they got so sick.  I am honestly kind of shocked that your DDs caseworker is still futzing around with her and has not referred her to an ACT team.  Clearly what is happening is not working.  She is not engaging.  She needs to be actively pursued and engaged because her judgement is so bad she does not recognize the need for help.  That is why teams like ACT exist.  Have you thought about calling up higher in the county mental health system and asking for a referall?

And...if Mom presents son to PO with all the criteria for FACT 1) drug abuse 2) mulitple hospitalizations 3) trouble with the law 4) risk of homelesness 5) failure of traditional treatments - the PO must consider stipulation or he is negligent.  That is if there is a FACT team in the county.  You can find out by googling or ask your local mental health center where the nearest team is.  They can cross county lines if no services exist where the client is.

[qcarolr]

When I google FACT Team I get Florida only. Services and funding vary so much by state and by county. I know there is an adjacent county that has lots of support, including residential. To get into those programs you have to live in that county or be incarcerated in that county. I have checked. Otherwise you have to self-pay for services. The county we live in uses their funds solely for out-patient services. The do have a team called PACE in our county. So it is important to check what is available locally.

cfh - I hope you can find some services for your son that he is willing to participate in to manage his probation. If he ends up in jail, it won't be pleasant yet he most likely will survive and there is a lot of supportive services available inside prison. My SIL's strategy when things got overwhelming for his anxiety disorder was to get in a fight and be put in isolation - he very consciously worked to make this happen. He still refuses to participate in any of the many rehab programs offered as part of his parole. He is in CA. He is back in jail after about 2 weeks out on parole. I have lost count of how many times he has been released and then violates. I think he feels safer in jail.

Will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

qcr

[GameGirl]

When I google FACT Team I get Florida only. Services and funding vary so much by state and by county. I know there is an adjacent county that has lots of support, including residential. To get into those programs you have to live in that county or be incarcerated in that county. I have checked. Otherwise you have to self-pay for services. The county we live in uses their funds solely for out-patient services. The do have a team called PACE in our county. So it is important to check what is available locally.

cfh - I hope you can find some services for your son that he is willing to participate in to manage his probation. If he ends up in jail, it won't be pleasant yet he most likely will survive and there is a lot of supportive services available inside prison. My SIL's strategy when things got overwhelming for his anxiety disorder was to get in a fight and be put in isolation - he very consciously worked to make this happen. He still refuses to participate in any of the many rehab programs offered as part of his parole. He is in CA. He is back in jail after about 2 weeks out on parole. I have lost count of how many times he has been released and then violates. I think he feels safer in jail.

Will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

qcr

If you want to PM me your county, I might be able to help. 

[cfh]

Thanks for all your input.  My son has switched his probation from NY to Boulder CO and I researched and found that they do have an outpatient program called PACE through Mental Health Partners for persons on probation, with mental illness, substance abuse and criminal behavior.
A glimmer of hope!

[lovesjazz]

 Gamegirl; I wasn't implying they were connected. But NAMI got us in the right direction by contacting the jail diversion. Didn't think I was stepping on toes. We go in every direction until we get the help we need. NAMI has been great for us.

[cfh]

One more thing.  A few of you have mentioned NAMI.  I have volunteered at NAMI and it's a great resource for anyone dealing with the mental health of a loved one and for the consumer.

[INFORMATION ABOUT THE 'SUPPORTING A CHILD' BOARD]

INFORMATION ABOUT THE 'SUPPORTING A CHILD' BOARD Our objective is to learn how to support our loved ones and to find peace and understanding in our own lives. There is real help and real hope available for families. For information and guidelines please click here :

[GameGirl]

Gamegirl; I wasn't implying they were connected. But NAMI got us in the right direction by contacting the jail diversion. Didn't think I was stepping on toes. We go in every direction until we get the help we need. NAMI has been great for us.

NAMI is definately a great place to go for help and advocacy.  The  nice thing about the chapters is that they usually have well connected members  who know how to open doors to mental health services.  I know that they are an invaluable part of my community for mental health consumers and their families.

[GameGirl]

Thanks for all your input.  My son has switched his probation from NY to Boulder CO and I researched and found that they do have an outpatient program called PACE through Mental Health Partners for persons on probation, with mental illness, substance abuse and criminal behavior.
A glimmer of hope!

That is great.  PACE is like an ACT team, but they can't officially call themselves one because they do not adhere exactly to the act model.  I believe that they are an Active Community Engagement Team, which is very similiar.

But they do have an ACT team as well in Boulder.

Check out this link if you get a chance.

http://www.mhpcolorado.org/Services/Community-Integration-and-Rehabilitation.aspx

[qcarolr]

gamegirl - this is a great link for Boulder county info.  I am doing the 'let go and let god' process around my DD25's recent DUI charge and hope her new community justice case worker can get her sentenced to one of these programs. And then for DD to accept it.

I have more on my own thread about DD/community justice bond supervision/ medical mj and no public defender until after the preliminary hearing in April. She wants to know how to get a waiver to allow her to use medical mj while on substance abuse monitoring.

qcr

[Reality]

cfh
How is your son doing?  How are you and your dh doing?  For some reason, I think of your son often and I am pulling for the right support and direction for all of you.  Young men with borderline suffer inwardly.  My son is doing just the DBT Skills training and DBT therapy the last 6 weeks and I am seeing a turning.  (The wait list for the real DBT is yet another year.)  Now, he did give the finger to the research people behind the glass at the teaching and research hospital when the instructor was turned away, as he hadn't agreed to that piece and everyone else in the group did, but having voiced his opposition, he attends the sessions.  Even though he disagrees with a lot of the ideas, somehow something is making a bit of sense for him.  I think it is the Radical Acceptance.  He can speak his mind and still stay in the group and therapy.  When he was doing the checklist he filled it out in one day for the whole week and I guess that is cool too.  He heartily disagrees with being effective over being right, as he says he is almost always right.  And he actually is, except when it comes to self-mastery.  The trickster tricked!
As you may have read, this is a young man, who has been systematically destroying himself and us for years.  Last year, he was given maybe a year or so of life.  I have been chiseling away at his destructive behaviors bit by bit and have been trying to keep him alive.  Protein shakes have helped a lot and working out in his basement den, good food...
You sound very knowledgeable about BPD, so I don't know why I am rambling on, but I have a strong sense that your son is one of those remarkable human beings, just off the beaten track for now.
Reality
Pass my post onto your son, if you like.

[Battle Weary]

Reality,
Can you clarify?  You say your DS is doing just the DBT skills training and DBT therapy, but the wait list for the real DBT is a year.  I thought DBT group therapy plus individual therapy with a DBT savvy therapist was real DBT.  Would like to understand the difference--thanks.

[Reality]

Hi Battle Weary
Marsha Linehan's model is very clear.  DBt includes the Skills Training Sessions weekly for one year alongside a weekly meeting with a DBT therapist.   First of all, my son is only able to access a 20 week Skills Training Session, so right there is a deviation.
Plus, Marsha Linehan specifies that the client has 24- 7 telephone access to a DBT therapist to contact when distress spikes.  The therapist listens and also dialectically serves as a springboard for the use of  strategies that the person might find helpful.  This aids the therapy process significantly, as the pwBPD can work through specific issues on a personal level at the time of distress.  Because issues are resolved after a time, the frequency of the telephone calls diminishes.  Another key piece is a weekly meeting of the therapists involved to help each other strategize and to serve as a reality check on each other, a true team approach.  I think this speaks to the complexity aspect of our kids.  I believe most of them are abstract random thinkers, way out of the box and brilliantly so.  We all know our kids are definitely not the cookie-cutter type.
(If you know in your gut, that something is not true, it is hard to go along with mis-steps.  I think our kids are creating an enormous truth-template, which many ' normal ' people would never consider in such a nuanced way.  However, they live in a rather dumbed-down lock-step world and it kills their integrity, so why not flee to a better world of your own making.)
I hope this helps to clarify. 
Reality

[Reality]

Addendum
When you think about it, the team meeting and consultative piece ensures that the therapists are psychologically, emotionally and intellectually supported.  It serves as a giant container, in Jungian terms, for the therapists, who do have a difficult job, we all know.  I think our message board serves the same purpose.  It contains us all, a lovely safe place where everyone can just say what they mean, without having to follow some weird societal protocol.
Plus, this model attracts the kind of people to DBT, who have the psychological confidence to welcome change and insight into their own behavior.  As I have said previously, I am struck by the authentic compassion of DBT therapists.  They are a different breed.  They have to be willing to see their own blindspots.  Just like we, in the family, must remove the major logs in our own eyes, if we ever want to see a splinter somewhere else, which we do less often, of course, because the log is very heavy and well-lodged.
Reality
Reality

[Battle Weary]

Reality,
Thanks--that was super helpful.  At long last I got my daughter to a DBT therapist yesterday--the chemistry looks very promising.  DD doesn't want a group and so I found this place that was willing to see her one on one.  The therapist did tell us how great she thought the group was and would work with DD to try to get her comfortable to try it.  I just checked their website and now see the place has what they call an adherent program but it also offers group DBT skills training.  While I am thankful DD is agreeing to any therapy at all, I will now go back to them with the information you have provided and see what obstacles there could be (apart from her fear of groups) to her going into an adherent program vs. a skills training group.  I am much obliged for your clarification.

[Reality]

Battle Weary
The purists stick to the comprehensive model devised by Linehan; however, a DBT therapist has the skills and perspective aligned with this tested model of treatment for pwBPD.  I am so impressed with the clinicians and social workers who practise DBT.  Highly professional, very kind and well-trained, whilst being highly personable.  What is your impression so far?
It will be interesting to see how my son progresses with the pared-down approach.  So far, so good.
Reality
Apologies to cfh for high jacking.  I just haven't figured out how to jump to a new thread.

[heronbird]

Yes sorry going off topic a bit here, just wonder how that actually works, how can a DBT therapist be on call 24/7 is that realistic

[Reality]

I think the therapists do shifts at night and they keep in touch with each other during the weekly meeting for the team.
Reality

[cfh]

Reality
I'm too depleted to go into a long response but thank you so much for your words of understanding and encouragement.  My son is amazing but so troubled and has been since birth.  We adopted him in the early 80's and were told that his birth mother did drugs, heavy drinking and made a suicide attempt while she was pregnant with him.  It's different now but back then we were so naive that we believed lots of love and a stable home would overcome everything.
I don't want to outlive him.  I wish I had a stronger faith since I know it got my parents through rough times.  But I don't.
I work really hard at hanging onto hope. 

[Reality]

Dear cfh,
Again, I am very drawn by your situation.  I wish your son could come and live with us for a while to give you a break.  Not that things aren't crazy here at our house...
I am wishing for you a sign of hope.  Your son is one of a kind and he deserves a chance.  I will be pulling for him every time I wake each day.  Tell him to go very easy on himself and to know he has a huge battle, but there will be a break for him.  What does he enjoy doing?  What are his interests?  Does he have anyone who connects with him on his level?
Your son, being so intelligent, needs to work out his own direction and frankly our present society doesn't have any space for the disenfranchised.  On some level, it makes sense for your son to be medicating with pharmaceuticals.  What are his options?
I hope you find some relief.
Reality

[qcarolr]

cfh - have you ever tried an Al Anon FAmily Group meeting? Their philosophy is very uplifting for me, and so very supportive of 'detachment with love'.  They support spiritual connection to each other and whatever greater than ourselves fits us. Not religious. Just an idea.

qcr