Defining the Male Waif

[Think About It...]

OMG...makes me want to cry because it's so true.  Granted I am only 60 days out of this relationship, but he had all of them, but self-injury.  Everything else was true.  Thank you so much for sharing.

[OneVoice]

OMG...makes me want to cry because it's so true.  Granted I am only 60 days out of this relationship, but he had all of them, but self-injury.  Everything else was true.  Thank you so much for sharing.

[MarshaDole]

Here's why this thread has been helpful to me.

Much information about BPD tends to put more emphasis on women who have this disorder, and my own therapist tells me that the male BPD is far less common. When hospitalized, my exBF was diagnosed as bipolar, with no mention of BPD. He is currently on medication.

Both before and right after he departed from my life, I read a lot about bipolar illness, and some of what I had experienced in this relationship simply didn't fit the descriptions. Somehow I stumbled onto something about BPD through an online link that intrigued me and from there I found this board. When I read the reports from redberry, whitedoe and others, I knew my exBF is most likely BPD with bipolar, which I've learned is a common combination, or maybe he's BPD only and was misdiagnosed, which I've read often occurs with male BPD.

Now, why is it important to me to compare symptoms and realize others on this board have also been dealing with male BPD? The reason is that I would have stayed the course if I were to believe my exBF suffers only from bipolar illness, not that it's any walk in the park in its own right, but I know it is very possible for those with bipolar illness who are medicated to lead fairly normal lives.

Were I to believe today that my exBF primarily suffers from bipolar illness, and that it was bipolar illness that caused much of what went on in our relationship, I would probably be willing to at least consider reconnecting with him if he wanted to come back with me in the future, since he is now on medication. BPD is another story altogether. No matter what my heart might tell me, my brain has made the decision never to reunite with this man. Thanks to redberry, whitedoe and others on this board, I know I was dealing with male BPD, either primarily or jointly with bipolar illness.  In my exBF's case, I'm convinced it was far more BPD than bipolar. This was the corner I needed to turn to move on and I'll be forever grateful to the posters here on this board who have shared their experience with male waif BPDs. The similar characteristics they've listed are too many in number and too detailed in description to be a coincidence.

I've been married just once and had only two other serious relationships in my adult life. I don't think everyone who falls in love with a BPD afflicted person is emotionally immature. This condition is very difficult for anyone other than an intimate significant other to spot, and my own therapist says he never reaches a BPD diagnosis until after a dozen or so sessions. My exBF seemed quite normal in the beginning, just very much in love with me. My friends and family all liked him and saw nothing amiss. And even now, I know people who know him who don't see the illness in him. I haven't told anyone other than my therapist that I believe I was dealing mostly with BPD all along and not bipolar illness. For better or worse, I would still hold out hope to be reunited with my exBF sometime in the future if I believed he is bipolar and staying on meds. Convinced through reading on this board about BPD and male waifs in particular, I will never return to that relationship. He has already put out feelers to me that I know are preludes to recycling. I turned him down each time because, thanks to this board and this thread in particular, plus others like it I found on here months ago, I'm so convinced I'm dealing with male waif BPD rather than bipolar illness.

[united for now]

Somehow I stumbled onto something about BPD through an online link that intrigued me and from there I found this board. When I read the reports from redberry, whitedoe and others, I knew my exBF is most likely BPD with bipolar, which I've learned is a common combination, or maybe he's BPD only and was misdiagnosed, which I've read often occurs with male BPD.

Now, why is it important to me to compare symptoms and realize others on this board have also been dealing with male BPD? The reason is that I would have stayed the course if I were to believe my exBF suffers only from bipolar illness, not that it's any walk in the park in its own right, but I know it is very possible for those with bipolar illness who are medicated to lead fairly normal lives.

BPDFamily is a fact based sight.  And to stay in that line, I have to share with you that the broad things listed in this thread could be anything from simple immaturity, depression, to anxiety, to personality disorders to Aspergers syndrome.   Loosing mailbox keys, disorganized sock drawers, and nail biting are not specific to a personality disorder - nor is it a way to tell bipolar from BPD - you could diagnosis 40% of all men based on these criteria 

my own therapist says he never reaches a BPD diagnosis until after a dozen or so sessions.

Exactly.  If you are truly making a life changing decision based on "clinical BPD or not" this thread isn't going to answer that question and we don't want to suggest to others to use this approach either.   I, personally, might be more concerned that he has gone back to a prior relationship/girlfriend twice - but that is another discussion. ;p

Maybe we can go a different direction.   Can you (or anyone reading) try this simple test and share the scores?   

• Intimacy  0  1  2  3  4
• Empathy 0  1  2  3  4
• Self Direction 0  1  2  3  4
• Self Identity 0  1  2  3  4

http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=468   [see table at bottom of page]

[HowPredictable]

United for Now, I endorse your approach and -- while recognizing that I am  not a mental health professional -- can offer the scores of my Ex as follows:

Intimacy - 2
Empathy - 3
Self-Direction - 3
Self-Identity -2

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[MarshaDole]

Identity: 3   He was obsessed with the issue of autonomy, and spoke constantly of children and teenagers trying to break away from their parents' control (keep in mind this is a man long, long past legal adulthood status) , yet told me after he went back with previous GF that although he would rather be on his own, he "can't fend for himself."

Could go from elation to despair and back again within minutes. The slightest obstacle to him became an insurmountable hurdle. When this happened, he could be heard calling himself vile names in the shower when he didn't think I could hear him.

Self-direction: 3 at best.

Frequently said he sees his life as meaningless. Told me he never really knew who he was or what he wanted. Has changed his stated religious beliefs, business ethics, and politicial/socio viewpoints depending on who he's with. Can't set a goal and accomplish it in realistic steps although he's incredibly intelligent and talented. Would set a lofty, unreachable goal and then fall short and abruptly quit. Took up a new interest with incredible passion only to drop it and say "it's all mundane to me now." And there would be a huge disconnect at times between what he saw as facts one day versus what he saw as facts the next.

Out of room, so I will post the other two dimension assessments shortly.

[MarshaDole]

Empathy: I would say a 2. He has a very hard time seeing anyone suffer. At times it seemed like he wanted to take on everyone else's pain and problems. But the moment he was stressed, which toward the end seemed most of the time, everything was all about him. He would have temper tantrums I would describe as rage, during which he would say really hurtful things, things that truly undermined the core of the relationship. Example: "I wasn't in love with you when I got involved with you. I just needed to get away from xxxx because I wanted to get even with her."  Then within hours he would say he didn't know why he had said those things.

Intimacy: 2 again, although some elements of 3 sound appropriate to me as well in describing my exBF. I'm convinced he went back to the previous woman because she doesn't require him to work, is willing to put up with his tantrums and moods, and, most importantly, foots all the bills because she is quite affluent. She is also very controlling, which he complained to me about in considerable detail, calling her a "classic control freak." He told me that when he left her to be with me, he felt "liberated." When I met him, I thought of him as a henpecked husband in a way (although they weren't legallly married and still aren't). But clearly he has some desire to put up with this "control freak," because despite finding "liberation" with me, he has returned to her. I believe from what I've read on this site that it's a case of a "BPD/N dance."

[OneVoice]

Mine has 25 out of the 27, he's definitely cut from the waif cloth. I'd like to add one more and that is...

Cried on que
My expbdbf could cry at any given moment so that you would think he was feeling deep emotional sincerity about something. It could be a single tear slowly rolling down his cheek (very dramatic) to full blown balling "uncontrollably". (on the contrary it was VERY controlled)   

OMG...mine would cry all the time.  I was like, you are crying again?  Coarse i never said that.  He texted me recently and was like, "I will always be your ball baby."  Um no, please don't.  I want to have a child of my own someday, I don't want to be dating a child.

[OneVoice]

When I first met my now xBPDbf, we out to eat for the first time and he ordered everything I ordered at Quizno's of all places.  I thought it was really odd.  I invited him out, introduced him to all my friends and the slowly he would bad mouth them all the time or tell me they talked bad about me to him, so I stopped hanging out with some of them and now he is best of friends with all of them.  Really hurts.  I can't believe I fell for all this soap opera high school bulls&^&.  I am in my 30's for gods sake. 

2. He had a sobriety birthday in August, so I contacted all of his friends from LA, he had just moved up to where i live.  So I contacted all of his previous friends because I made him a scrapbook and I wanted them to share a favorite memory about him.  Not one person from "recovery" responded, which had me very concerned and wierded out.  Only his previous employer co-workers responded.  And that was a place he was demoted in, for what he said, "they were all so spiritually sick."  I then wondered if he really had 24 years of sobriety, that he claimed.

3. Someone wrote, "Out of sight, out of mind" for people with BPD...I think that is true for me too.  When I met him, he was like "you are the one and I have never told anyone they are the one and you are my soulmate."  I thought I was, there seem to be all these coincidences.  But I always had this gut feeling that i couldn't trust him, and I didn't know why.  I just continued to ignore my gut.
It was something I could never put my finger on, but something I felt.

4. He raged at me often and if I walked away, he would follow me, while he yelled at me.  The scariest time for me was once when our other roommate was home, he yelled, "I am going to kill myself."  So I said loud enough for the other person to hear, "SO you are going to kill yourself?" Then he said, "I can't believe you just said that.  I would never do that."  I knew then I was dealing with someone very ill.  He told all my of my "Friends" that I threatened suicide.  Thank GOD i have a witness in my house, the 3rd roommate who heard him say, he wanted to kill himself.  I hate he said/she said stuff, what are we in middle school?  Ugh, but I been out for 3 months, he moved out and I have freedom.

5. Also he paid rent and utilities, but he never bought any food. 
And he made way more money than me, until he was fired from his job.

6. Another concern I always had was all of his ex girlfriends either had money or came from money, which was alarming and they all from his version had mental health issues.  Either bi-polar, drinking problems, drug problems, etc.

7.  I hated our arguments, because all of my feelings or anything I said to set boundaries he would say were his same feelings too and same thoughts and same everything.  So the arguments would just go in circles.  I would usually end up apologizing and he would NEVER apologize.  The only time he apologized was when I caught him cheating and then he said I am so sorry I did that to you.  It didn't feel sincere though.

Can anyone recommend any good movies that depict the BPD male?

[MarshaDole]

OneVoice, there aren't too many films depicted the BPD waif, but I do know about one. Dee if you can find The Talented Mr. Ripley. In this film, Matt Damon plays the role of a BPD male who takes on the lifestyle of an NPD male played by Jude Law. As the movie progresses, you can watch the person who at first seems a victim of circumstances evolve (or rather, devolve) into someone much darker.

I watched this film again just a few nights ago through Amazon.com streaming video. I rented it to watch online and it cost less than three dollars for the 24-hour rental.

[HowPredictable]

Can anyone recommend any good movies that depict the BPD male?

There's a list (with descriptions) of films about BPD males and females here:

[OneTrickPony]

Most of this could apply to female waifs as well. Especially mine.

Ditto to that! It's like reading about my ex gf. I think it's all the same crap when it comes to waif  BPDs. Same sh*t different body parts.

Absolutely true. All of this describes my udPDex almost to the last detail.

I don't think these criteria are gender-specific.

[dah1029]

When we first met, my ex always ordered the same meal that I ordered.  Always.  It was weird and annoying.  So I started making him order first.  I would say I was undecided.  I just thought he was very codependent and trying to enmesh himself in my personality.  I wish the problem had been as simple as codependency.  I'd be curious to see if his meal choices have changed with the new gf.

[seeking balance]

This topic has reached the page limit and the thread is now locked.  Feel free to start a new thread.

Thanks!