Setting limits and they feel attacked

[Think About It...]

Hi
  This one is about a friend's friend who is diagnosed with BPD. We all went to a museum together and the pwBP was talking in a loud voice. I felt upset, and found it difficult to concentrate. I told her quietly " I need to ask you to lower your voice, just because of the setting". She told me she was angry about that and felt I was "attacking and judging" her. I needed to "set limits"====we were not at a party, it was a situation where loud talking is not okay.  At an earlier point she said she had gone back and forth (what we know as the "push-pull" behavior) between apartments, and the same thing with jobs, men, etc. She asked my opinion and I tactfully said it sounds like a pattern. She responded by saying I was "judging and attacking" her. The mutual friend objectively said no it did not sound at all like an attack.
  Unfortunately this is someone I have to have occasional contact with. I will not hold back from "setting limits" if for example I am driving and need it to be quieter to avoid an accident, or we are in a museum and she is talking loudly.  I feel upset, because I have the right to enjoy the museum, and though I go with other people, this person is "part of the package" when I see our mutual friend.

  If it's not the loud voice it will be something else thet she will do that soemone will comment on and she will see as an "attack". I am not sure validation would be right for this situation---I think more is needed. Any suggestions in addition to validation when they feel attacked when you try to set liimts?
Thank you
Shatra

[shatra]

Hi
  This one is about a friend's friend who is diagnosed with BPD. We all went to a museum together and the pwBP was talking in a loud voice. I felt upset, and found it difficult to concentrate. I told her quietly " I need to ask you to lower your voice, just because of the setting". She told me she was angry about that and felt I was "attacking and judging" her. I needed to "set limits"====we were not at a party, it was a situation where loud talking is not okay.  At an earlier point she said she had gone back and forth (what we know as the "push-pull" behavior) between apartments, and the same thing with jobs, men, etc. She asked my opinion and I tactfully said it sounds like a pattern. She responded by saying I was "judging and attacking" her. The mutual friend objectively said no it did not sound at all like an attack.
  Unfortunately this is someone I have to have occasional contact with. I will not hold back from "setting limits" if for example I am driving and need it to be quieter to avoid an accident, or we are in a museum and she is talking loudly.  I feel upset, because I have the right to enjoy the museum, and though I go with other people, this person is "part of the package" when I see our mutual friend.

  If it's not the loud voice it will be something else thet she will do that soemone will comment on and she will see as an "attack". I am not sure validation would be right for this situation---I think more is needed. Any suggestions in addition to validation when they feel attacked when you try to set liimts?
Thank you
Shatra

[united for now]

When we are asking for something, it helps to phrase it in a manner they can accept.

SET is a communication tool that is great for this

support
empathy
truth

DEARMAN is another one
describe
express
assert
reinforce
be mindful
appear confident
be willing to negotiate


None of these are guaranteed to work, they do improve the odds that your message will be heard.

[needbpdhelp]

Hi
  This one is about a friend's friend who is diagnosed with BPD. We all went to a museum together and the pwBP was talking in a loud voice. I felt upset, and found it difficult to concentrate. I told her quietly " I need to ask you to lower your voice, just because of the setting". She told me she was angry about that and felt I was "attacking and judging" her. I needed to "set limits"====we were not at a party, it was a situation where loud talking is not okay. Any suggestions in addition to validation when they feel attacked when you try to set liimts?

Thank you
Shatra

You may want to check out this thread - http://BPDfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=169085.0 - for some good links about personal boundaries/limits. skip's thread and the wikipedia link both are good.

Personal limits are about ourselves, our values, limits, and actions we use to protect ourselves from others and them from us. We can't impose these limits on others - we can only use our own behavior to enforce them.

Using your museum experience as an example, if someone is distracting you by being too loud, and responds angrily to a polite request to lower their voice, how could you enforce your limit of needing a quiet atmosphere?

You could discreetly ask a museum employee to please handle it, or you could make an excuse to your friend, and wander to another location in the museum.

Lots of sensitive, insecure people - not just pwBPD - get defensive and feel you are trying to control their behavior - when you ask them to change it - even when your request is warranted.

needBPDhelp

[shatra]

Hi
 Needbp help, good idea about asking an employee to help or my going to another area. What if those are not possible at the time and I still need to ask her to lower her voice?

United wrote
When we are asking for something, it helps to phrase it in a manner they can accept.

SET is a communication tool that is great for this

support
empathy
truth

DEARMAN is another one
describe
express
assert
reinforce
be mindful
appear confident
be willing to negotiate


Thanks, here is what I came up with
Support==== I want us to all enjoy the museum
Empathy----- ?
Truth---In this setting it's important to talk quietly

and Dearman
Describe-----Your voice sounds a bit loud for the museum
Express----I feel uncomfortable and distracted
Assert----Would you be able to talk lower?
Reinforce----We can all enjoy the quiet atmosphere
Mindful----?
Appear confident-----Good posture, clear voice
Negotiate----We can talk louder in other settings

Shatra