BPD parent with your kids? Grandparent issues HELP

[Think About It...]

I feel like if I let my kids be around my mom they won't respect me. She has her way of totally disrespecting me ALL the time. My son is only a toddler (and number 2 is on the way) the older my son gets the more I worry about this. Right now she does things like...trys to give him HUGE portions of sugary snacks(like a whole adult portion of cake!) after I say NO. Then she will argue after I get mad and say things like "geez it's just cake...WHY cant he have it, etc" She acts like I over react and am just being mean...in FRONT of my son! This is just one example..I feel like she does anything and evrything she knows I would'nt want just so she can argue with me like this and try to make me feel stupid. We recently went on a family vacation(NEVER again!) Seeing how she is with my son and nephew makes me feel like I don't want her around at all. She did things like putting inappropiate shows on TV when the kids are in the room so I would have to say something or leave. And would make things a WAY bigger issue than they needed to be when something happened between my son and nephew to make them fight or mad(she constantly tried to pit me and my brother against each other like this) At one point I said something to my son and he replied "are you JEALOUS!" she laughed and I said where did he learn that and she just laughed and walked away. OHHHH I wanted to puke and SCREAM! She constantly said that to me and my brother growing up..she even says things about the dog being jealous when she gives her attention to anyone else..everyone is jealous of her and for her attention   My nephew is 9 now..and I see it getting REALLY bad with him(his father..my brother passed away) She was trying to watch Ghost hunting shows with him and says COMPLETLY inappropiate things to him. I honestly feel like she TRIES to work him up sometimes! I almost feel like she wants to corrupt the grandkids so she can sit back and say what an awful job we are doing raising kids..I just wonder how far she will go to get under my skin! I know she is not physically abusive..and my son loves her and we all love my Dad a lot and want them to have relationships..but there are no boundaries with her and if you try to set one she goes out of her way to cross the line and then make you feel like an idiot for "overreacting" That is her thing with me...she insults me and puts me down but if I get mad or upset she was just "joking" or I am just "sensitive" and I just "overreact" I have seen her say that about my son already too. If he cries about something she will say it's either "put on" or he soooo "sensitive" like his mother(me)! I just want to SCREAM typing this. I basically have no family other than the 2 of them..because she drove them all away when I was young and we were completly isolated from all outside family. I don't want my son to not have grandparents like me growing up...but I just wonder is it worth it? I especially wonder when he is older and will maybe want to stay with her(he is rarely alone with her EVER right now) I know she will play the "come to grandma to get away from evil mommy role" I KNOW she will! And act like I'm just stupid and he shouldnt listen to me! I have even thought of moving out of state just to get away..if my husband can find a job somewhere else we probably will! If we cant though...how do I deal with her and the relationship? I'm already fed up..I just don't know how to handle her anymore. She sucks the energy right out of me! Does anyone have/had these issues? How do u deal? Thanks!

[lm1109]

I feel like if I let my kids be around my mom they won't respect me. She has her way of totally disrespecting me ALL the time. My son is only a toddler (and number 2 is on the way) the older my son gets the more I worry about this. Right now she does things like...trys to give him HUGE portions of sugary snacks(like a whole adult portion of cake!) after I say NO. Then she will argue after I get mad and say things like "geez it's just cake...WHY cant he have it, etc" She acts like I over react and am just being mean...in FRONT of my son! This is just one example..I feel like she does anything and evrything she knows I would'nt want just so she can argue with me like this and try to make me feel stupid. We recently went on a family vacation(NEVER again!) Seeing how she is with my son and nephew makes me feel like I don't want her around at all. She did things like putting inappropiate shows on TV when the kids are in the room so I would have to say something or leave. And would make things a WAY bigger issue than they needed to be when something happened between my son and nephew to make them fight or mad(she constantly tried to pit me and my brother against each other like this) At one point I said something to my son and he replied "are you JEALOUS!" she laughed and I said where did he learn that and she just laughed and walked away. OHHHH I wanted to puke and SCREAM! She constantly said that to me and my brother growing up..she even says things about the dog being jealous when she gives her attention to anyone else..everyone is jealous of her and for her attention   My nephew is 9 now..and I see it getting REALLY bad with him(his father..my brother passed away) She was trying to watch Ghost hunting shows with him and says COMPLETLY inappropiate things to him. I honestly feel like she TRIES to work him up sometimes! I almost feel like she wants to corrupt the grandkids so she can sit back and say what an awful job we are doing raising kids..I just wonder how far she will go to get under my skin! I know she is not physically abusive..and my son loves her and we all love my Dad a lot and want them to have relationships..but there are no boundaries with her and if you try to set one she goes out of her way to cross the line and then make you feel like an idiot for "overreacting" That is her thing with me...she insults me and puts me down but if I get mad or upset she was just "joking" or I am just "sensitive" and I just "overreact" I have seen her say that about my son already too. If he cries about something she will say it's either "put on" or he soooo "sensitive" like his mother(me)! I just want to SCREAM typing this. I basically have no family other than the 2 of them..because she drove them all away when I was young and we were completly isolated from all outside family. I don't want my son to not have grandparents like me growing up...but I just wonder is it worth it? I especially wonder when he is older and will maybe want to stay with her(he is rarely alone with her EVER right now) I know she will play the "come to grandma to get away from evil mommy role" I KNOW she will! And act like I'm just stupid and he shouldnt listen to me! I have even thought of moving out of state just to get away..if my husband can find a job somewhere else we probably will! If we cant though...how do I deal with her and the relationship? I'm already fed up..I just don't know how to handle her anymore. She sucks the energy right out of me! Does anyone have/had these issues? How do u deal? Thanks!

[tiredmommy2]

Boy does this ever sound familiar!  I was in the FOG for a long time, and didn't see things clearly enough to know just how toxic this was to my kids.  My PD mother did many of the same things - I could have written more than half of your post myself. I came to my senses about 7 months ago, and went NC.  It was 100% the best decision I could have made for myself and for my kids. 

That "Come to grandma to get away from evil mommy" game that you mentioned - my mother did it, and my kids lost a lot of respect for me. I'm still undoing damage with my youngest  because of all of the crap that PD mother put her through, and my oldest was diagnosed with BPD last year.  Was this worth it just so they could have a grandmother?  NO! If I could turn back the hands of time, I would never have allowed this woman anywhere near my kids.

Let me put it this way: You know how you were raised, and what you struggle with now as a result. What do you see as an outcome if your kids are routinely exposed to this?  We, as adults, can hardly handle PD behavior, so what chance does a child have?

[AppleChippy]

Appologies x-posted

Oh boy, Im1109, I recognize everything you're talking about (except maybe the jealousy since I'm an only).

The stuff you're describing is bad.  It's parental interference designed to make you look like the bad guy and for her to "win" your son.

One thing that worked pretty well with my mother when she was doing inappropriate things with my sons would be I would not discuss anything further than telling her whatever was unacceptable and removing my son from the activity.  Whenver she would accuse me of blowing things out of proportion I just wouldn't engage and usually left the room.  She was trying to pick an argument that I could never "win" so I just didn't argue.

IMHO your son is old enough to start having simple values conversations with him to help him understand appropriate and prosocial behaviors and to counteract ideas she's putting into his head.

Of the top of my head here are some possible phrases to stock up on and teach your son:
1. Too much sugar can make me sick
2. Too much sugar is bad for my health
3. I only eat healthy amounts of sweets
4. Jealousy is bad for frriendships
5. I want to be friends with my cousin, we don't need to compare ourselves
6. TV that's too old for me is bad for my brain/development

But seriously, giving my sons some stock ideas and repeating them often can do wonders.  I've heard my older son whip a few out at my mother, especially regarding TV.  When I was 2 or 3 my mother let me watch way too adult TV and I can still clearly remember a scene that traumatised me where a man was attacking a woman and pulled her to the floor behind a counter.  I remember crying to my mother confused and scared and wanting to know why he was dong that.  And you know what she said? "he wants to take her clothes off" as if that was some kind of sanitized answer appropriate for a toddler.  I don't let my children watch any TV besides pbskids and sometimes the shows can be too scary for them (if someone is getting in trouble usually) so they get turned off right away.  Young children should be protected from seeing any kind of violence, there's all kinds of research on this topic that says witnessing violence has a dramtic effect on their brains.

Protect your kids.  You know what she's capable of because you know how she treated you and your brother as kids.  You're seeing her behavior now with the eyes of a parent.  You even know what she's trying to do.  

What do you think you could do to protect your kids from her negative influence?

[educator]

Wow...as others, I can relate to everything that you have said.      to you!

I especially wonder when he is older and will maybe want to stay with her(he is rarely alone with her EVER right now) I know she will play the "come to grandma to get away from evil mommy role" I KNOW she will! And act like I'm just stupid and he shouldnt listen to me!

This is alarming.  And...she probably will do this.  My uBPD MIL told DD6 that she could tell her anything and that she would not tell mommy or daddy.  That sent DH and I over the edge and we not longer allowed unsupervised visits, so MIL decided to go NC with us.

I honestly feel like she TRIES to work him up sometimes!

MIL thought it was so funny when her DH would tease DD6.  She's laughingly tell him to stop, but he never really would.  There were so many times that DD6 would come home and tell me that grandpa wouldn't stop teasing her.  And...it was all for their sick amusement, at DD6's expense.  So...she probably does get him going to amuse herself.

I wouldn't allow your oldest around her ever unsupervised.  If I could turn back time, I would have never allowed DD6 to have sleepovers.  MIL, whether purposefully or inadvertantly was trying to turn DD6 against us.  MIL wanted this private r/s with DD6...this special bond.  Claimed that they had it.  Seems like you already know that things are off. 

Hopefully you can set up some boundaries with her.  I felt the same way with DD6...I wanted her to have grandparents, but for us, it was more important for DD6 to have healthy people in her life and MIL is toxic.  It's  a shame, but sometimes NC is just what has to happen to protect our kids.  If their too toxic for us, they are way too toxic for a child.

[gypsychild]

I really needed to read this. It just reassures me why I am NC with my unBPDm. My DD is still so young I really wanted to stop these kinds of things before they start.
Thanks for sharing your experience, you are doing what is right for your Kiddo's  

[mommasa]

Good for you for worrying about the welfare of your kids!  I too have a BPDmom who was not a safe grandparent.  She spoiled the heck out of my older son, was always trying to one-up me and DH on presents, activities.  She had my son call her "mammy" and my dad "pa".  She completely ignored my decisions re: health care, food, etc and did whatever she thought was best when she had my son (which was 4-5 days a week b/c she watched him for my while I worked  )  She treated me like I was an idiot incapable of making my own decisions for my kids.  It is clear to me now that her primary desire was to supplant me and be my son's sole care provider, comforter, confidante.  (Weirdly, when my 2nd son was born, she still obsessed only over my older son).  At the time, I chalked it up to grandparent "spoiling" - but it is much more dangerous than that.  It sounds like your mom really is going to have detrimental impact on your relationship with your kids if you don't get some boundaries in place and are willing to follow up with action if she cannot respect your boundaries.  Some options: 1) she is not permitted alone with the kids, 2) she is not permitted to disagree with you or dispute your decisions in front of the children; 3) if she wants to spend time with the kids, she has to follow your rules for them re: food, tv, etc.  You need to decide what boundaries are most important to you and what steps you are willing to take if she refuses to abide by the boundaries you set.

[educator]

(Weirdly, when my 2nd son was born, she still obsessed only over my older son).

The same exact thing happened when DD1 was born.  MIL continued to favor DD6 and ignore DD1.  At first we chalked it up to her maybe not being comfortable around babies.  Then DD1 turned a year and was no longer a little baby and it continued.  I mentioned to MIL once how her DH seemed to favor DD1 and she laughed and said, "Well...it works out then!  I get DD6 and he gets DD1."    right there!

Our T had a really interesting point...said that as DD6 got older and outgrew MIL's maturity level, MIL would change and start to favor DD1.  This favoring would be very detrimental to both children.

So...you said that baby #2 was on the way.  These are all things you might need to look out for.  I never would have thought I'd have to deal with favortism on the level that MIL displayed. 

[kittykat63]

none of this surprises me at all- i can very well believe it as ive experienced all of this myself.
yes you are right- most of it is probably a deliberate work up- to work you up. so she can get close to your kids - because they are beautiful and you are flawed.
its all a little game to fill up her empty, vacuous head.
boundarys are not in their nature- so if you ask your mum to stop doing something- she will do it all the more.

the only thing you can do is to insist on some changes- and acually accuse her of undermining you. and say that it cant happen anymore- unless you make a big deal out of it- she will carry on walking all over you.

i have always been quite sympathetic towards my mums crippling mental health condition but now i look back and have realised that by not saying anything ive only enabled her to act like in a selfish way without boundarys.

i know about the innapropiate things too- my sisters kids wont meet their grandmother in a cafe because of the innappropiate things she comes out with.

my mum knows she is flying in the face of social rules- but she doesnt care- she will say whatever she wants to say even though its really not a good and appropiate thing to say.

[kittykat63]

can I also add, i believe that your relationship with your children cant be corrupted if its a good one. my mum has told my son all manner of things- she confides in him and tells him that he can always come to her if he needs help. she says she feels dreadfully sorry for him that he isnt being looked after properly, that he has a flakey mum. so when my son was young i banned him from spending time alone with her- as i couldnt trust her. however- my son and I are rock solid and it would take nothing but a huge great tsunami to shake this. he can also see- through watching the bizarre things she comes out and being on the receiving end of her sickness that she is also just completely batty- that helps.
if things get too bad you can always play your trump card- "granny unfortunately has a personality disorder" but i didnt play this card until my son had figured it out for himself and it wasnt news to him. i have no desire to meddle with anyone elses relationships or to burst a childs bubble.

[Meremom]

Moms and Dads of the board, raise your hand if you identify with this in a BIG way.  (Hundreds of hands go up)

 Hi!   Hi!   Hi!   Hi!   Hi!   Hi!   Hi!   Hi!   Hi!

Grandparent issues are one of the most infuriating parts of dealing with a BPDparent.  The good news is that it is one of the easiest parts to handle.

You no respect my boundaries?  You no see my kids.   

Here is a response that I found helpful when my mother would start with the "You're over-reacting" stuff...

"You don't have to agree with me but you do have to observe my rules for my child." 

Do not get engaged in a further discussion about the reasonableness of your rules!  Just repeat that idea over and over like a broken record.

"It's okay if you disagree with me.  But you have to observe my rules for my child."

I feel like I can predict with confidence that, ultimately, it won't work.  Your mother will never become a mentally balanced grandmother.  I think it is better for a child to have no grandparents than f** up ones.

Best wishes and good luck to you.  Congratulations on your newest baby!   

[tine2]

 Hi!  Hi!  Hi!

I've posted on here numerous times about my parents and my dd. We live across the country from them (for a reason!) and they only see my dd a couple times a year but those times are very very difficult. I have to be hyper-vigilant at all times. My uBPD mom babies, spoils, and smothers my dd. She's her BEST friend in the world! She acts like a 5-year-old with her and undermines my rules, all the while making sure she points out (in front of my dd) every single time she does something according to the rules - like "We only had one cookie. I know how you feel about sugar. And it only had mini chocolate chips in it because I know you don't like dd to have chocolate." She one-ups us (and Santa!) on presents. She turns my dh and I into "monsters" whenever we come near, as in, "Run! Hide! Here come those monsters!" She encourages my dd to keep secrets from us. And my dd's personality changes around my mom. When I'm in the same room with them, my usually sweet and loving 5 yo dd tells me to leave and "stop bothering" them. Bothering, that's one of my mother's words. She also plants guilt. I've heard her say things like "I'm surprised to hear you say you love me. I never get to see you."

I'm trying to cut down our 2x a year visits. Or lessen the duration of the visits. It's hard because my dd LOVES my mom.

I feel for you and for all of us. Just know that all of your concerns are right on.