Validation is hard work Does it get easier?

[Think About It...]

How long does it take for this validation stuff to become second nature?

Had to do lots of validating today with dd19.  Right after she gets up she wants to see me to tell me how upset she was last night.  According to her she spent all day doing things for other people while she was trying to get ready for a party with all her high school friends (she finished last June).  But her BF, who went to a different high school, didn't want to go and they had a fight.  As became apparent as she spoke, BF was crucial to her attending the party because everyone thought she was a loser--they all knew she didn't graduate and wasn't in college.  So in her mind if she showed up with upstanding BF people wouldn't think she was a loser after all.  Since BF wouldn't go, she didn't either and was very upset--never again in her life would she ever have the chance to see her high school friends together.

I went into high validation alert, made lots of sympathetic noises, told her how sorry I was, how disappointed she must feel, etc.  But it was really hard--I truly was not completely into the moment in full validation mode.  Instead I alternated mentally between two other modes that I had to struggle really hard to fight off:

1) My credo of following the French expression "Tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"--To understand all is to forgive all. I find this really useful for working out why people do things.  And so my temptation throughout this session with DD was to offer reasons for why BF might be acting a certain way or saying certain things.  But I know from experience with dd this would be enormously invalidating--in her view I'd once again be making excuses or taking BF's side.  So I swallowed all impulses in this direction.

2) Offering advice on how to keep this from happening again.  So I couldn't ask if she told BF in really concrete terms how important this was to her, etc. nor could I say anything like people really wouldn't think she was a loser, etc.  This is a natural reaction for me--I manage people and when they come to me with a problem we work on finding out what went wrong, how to resolve the problem, and how we can keep something similar from happening again. All very non-validating for a pwBPD.

I did ok job on the validation thing--one iffy moment when it could have turned ugly with her angrily giving me the you aren't a real mother, a real mother wouldn't say that blah, blah, blah.  But it was really hard stifling my more natural impulses.  I feel I made rather a has of it actually--I did well enough to keep her from a rage but not well enough for her not to conclude that she didn't want to have any friends anymore, she didn't want to see anyone ever, and she'd spend the rest of her life in her room.  Of course when I got back home from chores she was on the phone with BF and now they are at a movie...

[Battle Weary]

How long does it take for this validation stuff to become second nature?

Had to do lots of validating today with dd19.  Right after she gets up she wants to see me to tell me how upset she was last night.  According to her she spent all day doing things for other people while she was trying to get ready for a party with all her high school friends (she finished last June).  But her BF, who went to a different high school, didn't want to go and they had a fight.  As became apparent as she spoke, BF was crucial to her attending the party because everyone thought she was a loser--they all knew she didn't graduate and wasn't in college.  So in her mind if she showed up with upstanding BF people wouldn't think she was a loser after all.  Since BF wouldn't go, she didn't either and was very upset--never again in her life would she ever have the chance to see her high school friends together.

I went into high validation alert, made lots of sympathetic noises, told her how sorry I was, how disappointed she must feel, etc.  But it was really hard--I truly was not completely into the moment in full validation mode.  Instead I alternated mentally between two other modes that I had to struggle really hard to fight off:

1) My credo of following the French expression "Tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"--To understand all is to forgive all. I find this really useful for working out why people do things.  And so my temptation throughout this session with DD was to offer reasons for why BF might be acting a certain way or saying certain things.  But I know from experience with dd this would be enormously invalidating--in her view I'd once again be making excuses or taking BF's side.  So I swallowed all impulses in this direction.

2) Offering advice on how to keep this from happening again.  So I couldn't ask if she told BF in really concrete terms how important this was to her, etc. nor could I say anything like people really wouldn't think she was a loser, etc.  This is a natural reaction for me--I manage people and when they come to me with a problem we work on finding out what went wrong, how to resolve the problem, and how we can keep something similar from happening again. All very non-validating for a pwBPD.

I did ok job on the validation thing--one iffy moment when it could have turned ugly with her angrily giving me the you aren't a real mother, a real mother wouldn't say that blah, blah, blah.  But it was really hard stifling my more natural impulses.  I feel I made rather a has of it actually--I did well enough to keep her from a rage but not well enough for her not to conclude that she didn't want to have any friends anymore, she didn't want to see anyone ever, and she'd spend the rest of her life in her room.  Of course when I got back home from chores she was on the phone with BF and now they are at a movie...

[qcarolr]

I did ok job on the validation thing--one iffy moment when it could have turned ugly with her angrily giving me the you aren't a real mother, a real mother wouldn't say that blah, blah, blah.  But it was really hard stifling my more natural impulses.  I feel I made rather a has of it actually--I did well enough to keep her from a rage but not well enough for her not to conclude that she didn't want to have any friends anymore, she didn't want to see anyone ever, and she'd spend the rest of her life in her room.  Of course when I got back home from chores she was on the phone with BF and now they are at a movie...

Sometimes, as a loving parent we are just too hard on ourselves. Sounds like you did do a great job with keeping your focus on staying out of the solution and supporting her feelings. And yes, this is very very hard to do. I hold onto the pain of these exchanges so much longer than DD seems to. Perhaps when we are able to validate how they are feeling, it gives some space for regaining self-control internally. Then the pwBPD can put away the strong feelings and move on. I think the feelings may still be hidden somewhere, to pop up again at some unexpected moments.

My dd is becoming better able to actually tell me to back off, that she is trying really hard to manage keeping her 'panic' under control. And that this panic feeling is ALWAYS there, under the surface. I feel so sad for her, and so so so want to 'fix' this. My suggestions always include accepting the painful process of doing some kind of therapy - which just pushes her panic closer to the surface. I often just have to walk away to keep my own composure intact.

You did a great job here. Give yourself a  . 

qcr

[Battle Weary]

qcr,
Thanks for the validation!  Hope i get better over time.  Honestly--validation is much harder than it sounds--not that one can't say the right things, it's keeping oneself from saying the wrong things, which in other contexts, particularly one that doesn't involve a ppwBPD, would be the right things.  This makes for a very challenging re-orientation. 

[FriedaB]

It  sounds  like  you  handled  that one  quite  effectively...I  like  the  point  qcarolr  made  about  giving  them  space  to  re-regulate  on  their  own.  How  wonderful,  qc   your  daughter  is  making  progress   on  expressing  herself  in  a  more healthful  manner.   Kudos   =)

[qcarolr]

She needs to live in our house right now, and knows I will evict her if she doesn't manage her feelings. The other side is I am trying to be more direct with her - ie. overcome my own fears - in what I expect from her yet do it in a more validating way. Doesn't always work - so I walk away. The other part is that I am coming back later the same day or next day when we are  both more calm and addressing the issue. And I am trying trying to bring up only one topic a day.

My own mind wants to project out to a goal and analyze all the steps to get there. THis is just so overwhelming for DD to do. I really really have to focus on the next right thing to do in my dealings with her. When we recently set up some new boudnaries and consequences with her I did it piece by piece over a 24 hours period. Then I had to back off - and she reminded me that I was giving her too much by getting louder and angry. I am trying to also be more aware of her feelings in each moment, finding a way to let go of what I am trying to accomplish and remembering we have time to work on this.

THese are all old patterns in our relationship that take focus and strength to change. I do think I am better able to get back to the skills of validation and setting boudnaries more quickly now than ever before. I just have to give myself some quiet space, do something else with my goals for DD simmering in the background, and trust that the answers will come as needed.

To change an old pattern is not to tell it to just 'go away!". It is to drive it out with a new,healthier pattern. This is what reading and practicing new ways on others around me, that are not BPD, do for me. It is alwasy hardest to relax and let the skills do their work with DD when she is angry.

And I try to remember that when she is angry there are other strong emotions driving this anger.

qcr  

[Battle Weary]

qcr,

What you say here is very important (how does one do the quote thing anyway?):

"And I am trying trying to bring up only one topic a day.

My own mind wants to project out to a goal and analyze all the steps to get there."

Looking back on all my previous, abysmally non-validating discussion with DD, I didn't follow either of these.  When I could finally corner her into a discussion, I'd want to cover everything on the laundry list because I didn't know when I'd get another opportunity to bring things up.  Of course this meant dd would make sure the opportunities were fewer and fewer.  And I would have goals for her to meet and would lay out the steps to accomplish that, all of which I was more than willing to help her with.  I couldn't understand why she'd push away such a logical plan!

I really am trying to raise only one uncomfortable topic at a time and not throw in the kitchen sink.  Trying to get DH there too but difficult--am trying to convince him we need to get her mental health care on an even keel before we can raise the goals we both want for her--get a GED then college or a job.  Hew wants to make getting GED the top priority and doesn't see why it would be wiser to give her new DBT therapy some time and wait for her new psych evaluation.  In the past I would serve as a messenger for conveying his wishes for her.  But no longer--have taken a firm stand she just won't listen and can't process these demands right now and only grief will come if we press.

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[Reality]

Battle Weary
Isn't the firm stand with dhs exhausting too?  My eyes are so sore from looking out for the wrong turns with dh and myself.  Phew!
Reality