need advice

[Think About It...]

Hello...  i just need to know which is the best to do.. i ask because i am not making good choices.. my heart says one thing, everyone else another... and yet... would you abandon a child who is sick with cancer and angry?  no...

My daughter refuses to do anything i want or ask or recommend..it's been this way since she was little..  if mom wants it, she goes the other way.. it was one thing as a teenager when she refused to clean her room because i would insist.. i 'got it' and let it go and let her have her pigsty room...   i thought she grew out of that but i see now the pattern.

Being with me is making her worse.. the more i try to help her, the more she fights, resists and NOW she has decided if i send  her to a shelter, she will kill herself and if i try to force her out, she will call the cops and tell them all our 'secrets'.. which isn't reallly anything but if i am afraid of ONE THING in this world, it is the POLICE, maybe it's past life thing but I am TERRIFIED of having the  police called on me and she WELL knows this...  but it works for her... 

So she said that she was never getting help, EVER, and would, every day from now on, go to the library every day and come here to sleep... until i kick her out, then she will kill herself...    I mentioned the problem with her plan is this ISN't MY house and the other people who live here are getting pretty tire of the BS...   That is when she grabbed my face, and said with a quiet violence.. " you will NEVER see me again"...    then left... without taking her things...   

So, here is what i need to understand...    Of course this isn't the first time she's threatened this.. and always, always, always... after time... i text her or call, email, smoke signal, something... to find out if she's still alive...  and then that always opens the door again for her to be soft and for me to let her back in...

I always call...  Is it a loving thing to just not call... to just hold positive thoughts, to pray, to go on with my 'stuff' and hope i don't have a mental breakdown NOT knowing where she is or how she is or if she's even alive...

i KNOW i have to do something so SOMETHING changes because she is NOT going to change...   I make her worse...  i raised her.. i know the trauma.. i didn't think i did things wrong but in my best intention, i was horrid at validation... "just snap out of it, put on your big girl panties and buck up".. was the motto to any problem. 

So...  in doing something.. would the best way to do 'this' is doing nothing?

i hope i explained this well...  she has ran off, threatened to never see me again...  do i do 'nothing' and wait...  going from there.. or do i do as i have always done and let time pass and then try to find out if she's out there... which always seems to lead to me rescuing her.  I am desperatly trying to stop rescuing here.. i even took her to the shelter and she REFUSED to get out of the car!

thanks
sophie

[sophieb]

Hello...  i just need to know which is the best to do.. i ask because i am not making good choices.. my heart says one thing, everyone else another... and yet... would you abandon a child who is sick with cancer and angry?  no...

My daughter refuses to do anything i want or ask or recommend..it's been this way since she was little..  if mom wants it, she goes the other way.. it was one thing as a teenager when she refused to clean her room because i would insist.. i 'got it' and let it go and let her have her pigsty room...   i thought she grew out of that but i see now the pattern.

Being with me is making her worse.. the more i try to help her, the more she fights, resists and NOW she has decided if i send  her to a shelter, she will kill herself and if i try to force her out, she will call the cops and tell them all our 'secrets'.. which isn't reallly anything but if i am afraid of ONE THING in this world, it is the POLICE, maybe it's past life thing but I am TERRIFIED of having the  police called on me and she WELL knows this...  but it works for her... 

So she said that she was never getting help, EVER, and would, every day from now on, go to the library every day and come here to sleep... until i kick her out, then she will kill herself...    I mentioned the problem with her plan is this ISN't MY house and the other people who live here are getting pretty tire of the BS...   That is when she grabbed my face, and said with a quiet violence.. " you will NEVER see me again"...    then left... without taking her things...   

So, here is what i need to understand...    Of course this isn't the first time she's threatened this.. and always, always, always... after time... i text her or call, email, smoke signal, something... to find out if she's still alive...  and then that always opens the door again for her to be soft and for me to let her back in...

I always call...  Is it a loving thing to just not call... to just hold positive thoughts, to pray, to go on with my 'stuff' and hope i don't have a mental breakdown NOT knowing where she is or how she is or if she's even alive...

i KNOW i have to do something so SOMETHING changes because she is NOT going to change...   I make her worse...  i raised her.. i know the trauma.. i didn't think i did things wrong but in my best intention, i was horrid at validation... "just snap out of it, put on your big girl panties and buck up".. was the motto to any problem. 

So...  in doing something.. would the best way to do 'this' is doing nothing?

i hope i explained this well...  she has ran off, threatened to never see me again...  do i do 'nothing' and wait...  going from there.. or do i do as i have always done and let time pass and then try to find out if she's out there... which always seems to lead to me rescuing her.  I am desperatly trying to stop rescuing here.. i even took her to the shelter and she REFUSED to get out of the car!

thanks
sophie

[griz]

Sophie this is such a hard question and one we all grapple with.  People will often tell me to let dd suffer the consequences of her behaviors but I often find myself recuing her, making excuses for her.  I don't know that I can do this. My head sometimes tells me something completely different from my heart.  She is and always be my child, that is forever in my heart and not my head

Griz

[mom4jenna]

I really feel for you. It's so hard to know what to do. Things get crazy before you know it. Are you in counseling yourself? I would say start there so you can sort this stuff out. It can make you crazy. Good luck. Keep coming back.

[sophieb]

I really feel for you. It's so hard to know what to do. Things get crazy before you know it. Are you in counseling yourself? I would say start there so you can sort this stuff out. It can make you crazy. Good luck. Keep coming back.

Thanks..  i am in therapy myself... been through DBT...  if it weren't for my daughter, who forced me to get better (because i wanted to be a better mom, a better person)... i might have gone off the deep end years ago...

because she is here, i am a better person...   i just wish i could give that to her..

sophie

[sophieb]

Sophie this is such a hard question and one we all grapple with.  People will often tell me to let dd suffer the consequences of her behaviors but I often find myself recuing her, making excuses for her.  I don't know that I can do this. My head sometimes tells me something completely different from my heart.  She is and always be my child, that is forever in my heart and not my head

Griz

thanks.. i am having a hard time letting her suffer her consequences because they become MY consequences...

I keep thinking if i were to take all i had and get an apartment for her to live in...  it would be so much work for me... all the things i would need to do to move would trigger my issues...  and i can work through them.. but if the past is any indication...  it is NOT going to make her seek help...    and i know in my heart until she starts to work on herself, day by day, step by step... this HORRIBLE merry go round of hell is NOT going to stop...  even if I get off...  i just watched a youtube video about BPD and suicide...  that didn't make me feel any better...

I had several  hours with a friend on a short road trip this afternoon and we laughed and for a short time i forgot my heartache until in one moment something reminded me of her and for a few moments, i almost couldn't breathe, the pain came and threatened to overwhelm.  she will always be in my heart.. i just wish i could do the right and perfect thing so that she would get help.. (i also know the way that sentence plays in our world... i just wish...)
sophie

[Reality]

Sophie,
I have found that I had to learn how to manage the police.  I have had quite a few police visits and it was very difficult and traumatizing.  For me, the key piece has been to phone calmly and to first explain that my son has a serious mental health issue, he has Borderline Personality Disorder and then I add that he is easily traumatized.  I explain that it s very difficult for me to have police visit and that it is very important to have someone come, who understands how to deal compassionately with people with BPD.  If it is not an emergency persay, I explain that clearly.    I always have a notebook with me and I record what happens during the visit.
It is not right for your daughter to touch you in any way.  Our pwBPD are out of control emotionally and need to know that their behavior will not be tolerated, if we feel threatened.  I do not agree with the 'let them suffer the consequences' theory at all; however, I need to feel safe.  Usually, my son calms down significantly after a police visit and gradually he is learning that no matter the level of distress, he can't make me afraid.  
I feel it is critical though to be ready to allow them back in the house, when they are contrite and have seen the errors of their ways.  I think it can be very dangerous to leave them out of the house for an extended period of time, as they can't make good choices by themselves and they need to have our modeling and our help with nutrition, hygiene and decent behavior etc etc etc etc
Thank you for sharing so honestly, as it made me realize how much my fear has been a factor when dealing with my son.  He needs very firm guidelines, consistently enforced.
There are no easy answers, just ideas to share with each other.
Take good care of yourself.
Reality

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[bpdmomma]

Building on what Reality said, I have been taking the free NAMI Family to Family course for families of mentally ill loved ones.  At last weeks class this issue of the police came up.  They said become friends with the police.  Go to them first, let them know the situation, as Reality described, and let them know that they may need to be called in the future and to please handle appropriately so as not to make the situation worse.  I don't know if this is something you could feel comfortable with, but it might be worth thinking about.  All my best to you.  This is NOT easy.

[Battle Weary]

Long ago when I was dealing with my ds, who has neurological problems that sometimes can have a violent edge, I learned from a parent forum that it is absolutely critical when calling the police to to say "I have a psychiatric emergency" before saying anything else.  This alerts the operator to tell the police this is more a medical matter than a criminal one.  Recently I was on NAMI website for my city and learned they have worked with the police to train some of them on how to respond to situations involving people with psychiatric problem.  The site said if calling the police to ask specifically for a mental crisis police specialist (or something like that) to ensure that at least one trained officer can be sent to deal with the situation.

[sophieb]

Thank you, all...  the thing about the police is it just terrifies me...   Honestly i see NO reason to call the police, ever... i don't agree with getting the police involved in family matters.. i suppose i have not been in the position where it was absolutely necessarily..  If my house were broken into, i'd probably not even report it... that is how terrified i am of the  police.. i have never seen anything good come from them... i have had bad past experiences, i suppose.. my Problem with my daughter is she keeps threatening to call the cops because she knows that's a master way to manipulate me...  want mom in total compliance. threaten to call the cops... OMG...

I have to say i feel every bit of growth i did in the last five years has gone out the window.. i am constantly triggered and emotionally dysregulated...   the good news is  i DO have TOOLS to deal with it.. and i am using them.

I am at amazed at how much i am observing...  and i feel for this poor kid of mine...   and i am still so sad that she had to grow up with a BPD Mom...  and yet i can't go back, i can't go back, i can't go back..

and i tell  her over and over.. no amount of ME taking responsibility for MY actions is going to change HER... 

When she was three states way and living with my mom she was working, going to AA and had a car...  now with me 4 months and she's reverted to a CHILD.. a spoiled rotten child with NO sense of responsibility...  and my mom, nor my sister or brother have spoke with either of us for four months because they believe her to be just a spoiled rotten person who they can't understand can't just get over it...  they are no help, nor do i feel they will ever change their position. It's just me and her.

She flat REFUSES to get  help, flat REFUSES to go to a shelter...  just like as a teenager she refused to clean her room, refused to ride the bus...  anything i try to get her to do becomes this THING that she REFUSES to do... 

and i think i can see the writing on the wall... i don't think she will get the help she needs while she is with me...  i think out of sheer stubbornness she will  NOT get help...

and ALL i am hearing from  her is how i don't spend any time with her.. that i choose my roommate and his mom as my family and how i ALWAYS put EVERYONE else before HER.   I have been FRANTICALLY trying to make money to help her but the more i work the more she gets angry at me but if i don't work there is not going to be enough money to pay the bills...  it takes me almost 40 hours a week to make enuf to barely sneak buy myself...   paying for everything with her is draining me physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually and every other way and YET.. I don't do enough for her...

I've been trying to find an NAMI or any other way to go to DBT again or support.. or a therapist..  i feel i am slowly loosing my mind...

i am grateful this board exists, yet i feel so desperate when i write... 

I do like the suggestions of talking to the police before hand AND saying it's a psychiatric emergency...  so, when she threatens to call, i can say 'go for it".. and HOPE that the police remember that i have told them what they will find when they come.. or when she's talking to them, i can shout, loud and hope they hear.. "it's a psychiatric Emergency!"  HAHAHA..  that made me laugh   I think maybe i can try to talk to the local police..  one small step, atleast i can take that threat and manipulation from her.

sophie

[qcarolr]

Sophieb - it is so hard when our BPDkid triggers us. My DD is a huge trigger for me - bipolar. It makes me putty in her hands.

So take the small step to talk to your local police - call their non-emergency number or go to their office and get information about how they handle calls with situations like yours. Think of it as an 'infomation interview' - like you were going to write a report for a magazine or something. Maybe this would take some of the heat out of this for you. And maybe this would help you with the fear that I hear so clearly in your posts here.

Fear paralyzes me with my BPDDD25. How old is you D? And I battle the head vs. heart thing daily. GEEZ - where is that WISE MIND when you need it?

Keep coming back and let us know how this is going. And the other thing to remember - your D knows how to take care of herself. Yes, harm to herself is always a possibility - it is only in her control. And she has ALWAYS COME BACK BEFORE. I set my DD out on the street as I just could not take the trauma of her in my home any more - cried for the first 6 months filled with guilt. But you know what - she survived and learned how to manage herself in a lot of ways. She REFUSES any kind of therapy - says that is what her friends are there for, why would she share her personal stuff with someone who is only in it for their paycheck!

I have had to find ways, one day at a time, to overcome my fears in order to take care of myself and set my limits with DD. NOt perfect at - but things are better.

I hope you can find the support you need - remember you have the skills you need. Take a breath and let them come to the top where you can use them again.

qcr  

[heronbird]

Its so ailen for us to get Police involved isnt it. I ended up having to do it so much in the end, I wouldnt hesitate now if necessary to use them.

I just read the first post on this thread first of all and thought gosh, doesnt it sound like a toddlers behaviour, thretening you when she is dysregulated etc.

In my experience its just talk, and 10 mins later dd would say she didnt say anything like thretening, so dont take it seriously.

I think back off comes to mind, let her be, tell her you are there if she needs you.

Hope things get better, keep strong.
As I have said many times now try to read overcoming BPD book by Valerie Porr, very helpful

[sophieb]

Sophieb - it is so hard when our BPDkid triggers us. My DD is a huge trigger for me - bipolar. It makes me putty in her hands.

So take the small step to talk to your local police - call their non-emergency number or go to their office and get information about how they handle calls with situations like yours. Think of it as an 'infomation interview' - like you were going to write a report for a magazine or something. Maybe this would take some of the heat out of this for you. And maybe this would help you with the fear that I hear so clearly in your posts here.

Fear paralyzes me with my BPDDD25. How old is you D? And I battle the head vs. heart thing daily. GEEZ - where is that WISE MIND when you need it?

Keep coming back and let us know how this is going. And the other thing to remember - your D knows how to take care of herself. Yes, harm to herself is always a possibility - it is only in her control. And she has ALWAYS COME BACK BEFORE. I set my DD out on the street as I just could not take the trauma of her in my home any more - cried for the first 6 months filled with guilt. But you know what - she survived and learned how to manage herself in a lot of ways. She REFUSES any kind of therapy - says that is what her friends are there for, why would she share her personal stuff with someone who is only in it for their paycheck!

I have had to find ways, one day at a time, to overcome my fears in order to take care of myself and set my limits with DD. NOt perfect at - but things are better.

I hope you can find the support you need - remember you have the skills you need. Take a breath and let them come to the top where you can use them again.

qcr  

Thank you so much...  My DD is 27 and she's been able to push my buttons for 27 years..  i must have HUGE RED ones just for her...   

i am going to stick here until it's time for us to leave...( i posted on another post about HER asking ME to take her to a shelter)   and i am going to do my best not to melt, to fray, to become dysregulated..   I spent the day yesterday getting resources, talking to the very places she is going... finding out for myself.. ( i did NOT talk to the police but the THOUGHT seems easier) yes.. all she has to do is admit, talk, take shelter, ask... all hard things...  but at some point, every one of us humans has to do this... and i am to the point if death is her path then grieving and getting past that will be mine but i WILL USE THIS TO GROW... to have compassion... to help others... once i am able to breathe...  I am doing everything i can and my therapists told me yesterday that she knows i am ok because i am asking for help and reaching out myself..  as she reminds me.. this is an authentically sh*tty situation and anyone would be having a tad hard time... be gentle with myself... love one another... 

i actually sent an SOS text out to my friends.. the ones who i know are there for me but because of my life, i have gone 'dark'... i said.. "make me LAUGH"... send me a hug.. come get me for coffee...  "..       

i see this as a sign of my mental health OR i've slipped FAR, FAR FAR down the rabbit hole

sophie

[sophieb]

Its so ailen for us to get Police involved isnt it. I ended up having to do it so much in the end, I wouldnt hesitate now if necessary to use them.

I just read the first post on this thread first of all and thought gosh, doesnt it sound like a toddlers behaviour, thretening you when she is dysregulated etc.

In my experience its just talk, and 10 mins later dd would say she didnt say anything like thretening, so dont take it seriously.

I think back off comes to mind, let her be, tell her you are there if she needs you.

Hope things get better, keep strong.
As I have said many times now try to read overcoming BPD book by Valerie Porr, very helpful

Heronbird.. i am starting to really 'get it', that so much of this is all talk... all talk to get her to a place she feels better in her own mind.. this threatening to kill herself, all the anger, all the rage... THIS IS her COPING skills... as she has learned them in the 27 years she's been alive...   (of course my guilt about my raising her, doing the best i could, still... bah)... she has learned these things and now needs to learn NEW skills... 

Something had to change and like so often in life.. It has to be ME...  Ok God.. now what

sophie

[qcarolr]

Something had to change and like so often in life.. It has to be ME...  Ok God.. now what

sophie

Gotta remember that one - the ME is all we have any ability to change. YOU CAN DO THIS --- and so can your DD.
qcr

[heronbird]

How hard it is to listen and just let everything go over my head.

I have always been the type of person who if I say yes I mean yes. If I say I am going on holiday, I do it. If I say I am having a new kitchen I will and soon. I dont fantasize Id say.

So when my dd says something I think she means it, Im still in training, maybe one day it will regester all the time.

One worse thing for me was about a year ago after dd had about 8 suicide attempts, hated me, lived on streets etc, she told me her bf and his family were taking her to Florida for a holiday, (we live in UK), she was 16, how can this be allowed I was also annoyed he didnt even ask me first, I mean how silly.
But I panicked and got all worried, then a few days later dd gets a call from him saying he is booking it now, like Im thinking, whats going to happen if she attempts suicide in Florida, or runs off and does  something and needs me or my help, you know what I mean.

He never booked it, and two days later they had split up and she hated his guts, made her feel sick to even think about him. Haha

[sophieb]

Something had to change and like so often in life.. It has to be ME...  Ok God.. now what

sophie

Gotta remember that one - the ME is all we have any ability to change. YOU CAN DO THIS --- and so can your DD.
qcr

im sorry i missed this earlier... you are correct! we are the only 'me' we can change... and some times the only thing we can change is our perspective!

sophie