Do 'straight' men with BPD engage in gay sex as part of acting out? Help

[Think About It...]

My question is: is this a common thing among straight men who suffer from BPD: engaging in promiscuous activity sometimes with other men as part of their exploration and relentless quest to find out who they are? Is it yet another acting out method to fulfilling the need for dangerous, taboo behavior?  Can anyone here perhaps shed some light on this  conflicted act of homosexuality, which perhaps may be due to the BPD engaging in simply because he's trying to find a panacea for his anger/erratic behavior before he knows what he suffers from. Also I am inclined to believe it comes from trying on different lifestyles for size in a quest to identify with a cause or a group to fulfill that empty void and try to 'belong' to something through someone/thing. My s/o try to experiment with 2 other gay experiences (not fully acted out sexually), not because he ever had romantic feelings towards men  but because of an obsessive/impulsive curiosity as he told me. He always got scared off, turned off, and grossed out as he confided in me - yet 1 year into out relationship I found out in a horrible way and much to my own mental demise, that he tried to give this promiscuous obsession one more shot! When I confronted him he told me that it wasn't because he's into men but he told mee he did it simply to punish himself. When I asked him if it excited him in any way, he said he was as excited as when he planned to commit what turned out to be his failed suicide attempt.  Right after this horrible act he told me that he was completely grossed out by what he had done, to the point that he threw up, and it would never happen again.  That he would kill himself first before ever engaging in that kind of act agin. He has always lived with a lot of self hatred, and thought himself an evil persona unworthy of love, seeking ways to hurt himself. So he would act out in ways to traumatize and cause harm to himself. He told me this was only yet another punishment he sought out for himself that would humiliate him, and arranged for anonymous sex online with another 'straight' man (whatever that means since he was married but had anonymous sex with other men!). I saw his post unfortunately, in which he called for 'non-reciprocation' - but basically just wanted to be treated rather forcefully and sodomized.  He said it turned into a nightmare as the man ended up basically raping him and hitting him. It was painful and traumatic he told me. In the end he was getting his request met, sadly enough. Anyway, because i love/d him so much I worked through that with him, and try to believe from the bottom of my heart what he reassured me over and over again 'I am straight. I only want you. You turn me on. I'm sorry I had to act out in the most disgusting and gay way - I will never recover from that.' Anyway, I do believe he is not gay, but very, very troubled. Am I being completely delusional here? He also had major father issues, so he gravitated towards sought older male friends/acquaintances. He had many girlfriends in the past, and was always attracted to them; often infatuated. He told me he once tried to convince himself he may be gay by pseudo-dating an older man, but he was grossed out at the thought of being with a man and he opted out of it.  He kind of liked the gay community and lifestyle, but couldn't honestly see himself being part of it - as it went against is instinct and attraction to females. He's pursuing therapy now for BPD, and wants to work out our relationship because he believes I am the love of his life and could never be with someone as 'amazing' and accepting of all his (past) flaws like me, having shown him empathy and unconditional love. He told me it's such a gift and relief to be with a partner that knows 'everything' about you - even the darkest side. That that makes us invincible sharing ourselves and knowing everything about each other on profound level. I love him dearly, and want to give him another chance. Am I being naive here?

[flavia]

My question is: is this a common thing among straight men who suffer from BPD: engaging in promiscuous activity sometimes with other men as part of their exploration and relentless quest to find out who they are? Is it yet another acting out method to fulfilling the need for dangerous, taboo behavior?  Can anyone here perhaps shed some light on this  conflicted act of homosexuality, which perhaps may be due to the BPD engaging in simply because he's trying to find a panacea for his anger/erratic behavior before he knows what he suffers from. Also I am inclined to believe it comes from trying on different lifestyles for size in a quest to identify with a cause or a group to fulfill that empty void and try to 'belong' to something through someone/thing. My s/o try to experiment with 2 other gay experiences (not fully acted out sexually), not because he ever had romantic feelings towards men  but because of an obsessive/impulsive curiosity as he told me. He always got scared off, turned off, and grossed out as he confided in me - yet 1 year into out relationship I found out in a horrible way and much to my own mental demise, that he tried to give this promiscuous obsession one more shot! When I confronted him he told me that it wasn't because he's into men but he told mee he did it simply to punish himself. When I asked him if it excited him in any way, he said he was as excited as when he planned to commit what turned out to be his failed suicide attempt.  Right after this horrible act he told me that he was completely grossed out by what he had done, to the point that he threw up, and it would never happen again.  That he would kill himself first before ever engaging in that kind of act agin. He has always lived with a lot of self hatred, and thought himself an evil persona unworthy of love, seeking ways to hurt himself. So he would act out in ways to traumatize and cause harm to himself. He told me this was only yet another punishment he sought out for himself that would humiliate him, and arranged for anonymous sex online with another 'straight' man (whatever that means since he was married but had anonymous sex with other men!). I saw his post unfortunately, in which he called for 'non-reciprocation' - but basically just wanted to be treated rather forcefully and sodomized.  He said it turned into a nightmare as the man ended up basically raping him and hitting him. It was painful and traumatic he told me. In the end he was getting his request met, sadly enough. Anyway, because i love/d him so much I worked through that with him, and try to believe from the bottom of my heart what he reassured me over and over again 'I am straight. I only want you. You turn me on. I'm sorry I had to act out in the most disgusting and gay way - I will never recover from that.' Anyway, I do believe he is not gay, but very, very troubled. Am I being completely delusional here? He also had major father issues, so he gravitated towards sought older male friends/acquaintances. He had many girlfriends in the past, and was always attracted to them; often infatuated. He told me he once tried to convince himself he may be gay by pseudo-dating an older man, but he was grossed out at the thought of being with a man and he opted out of it.  He kind of liked the gay community and lifestyle, but couldn't honestly see himself being part of it - as it went against is instinct and attraction to females. He's pursuing therapy now for BPD, and wants to work out our relationship because he believes I am the love of his life and could never be with someone as 'amazing' and accepting of all his (past) flaws like me, having shown him empathy and unconditional love. He told me it's such a gift and relief to be with a partner that knows 'everything' about you - even the darkest side. That that makes us invincible sharing ourselves and knowing everything about each other on profound level. I love him dearly, and want to give him another chance. Am I being naive here?

[pallavirajsinghani]

Hello Flavia:

I am so sorry that of the turmoil that you are going through.  I see from your posts that you are trying to understand the rational of and behind a mental disorder.  It is like being convinced that the Chaos theory has an order, a reason, a logic...

One can rationalize...but one cannot find "reason" in what is fundamentally irrational.

I notice that your focus is still on him.  You are still trying to understand him via understanding BPD as a mental disorder.

There has been more research on mentally disordered individuals as compared to research done on its effects on the non-disordered people who love them/live with them.  I really think that a slight shift in your focus will help you understand the entire spectrum of this disorder/your XSO/the dynamics of your relationship and the mourning and the grief that you most probably be going through.

Your reason will tell you that nostalgia is insidious.  One's ego tends to rewrite history in order to accept it, to process it, to internalize it and to incorporate it into itself in some coherent and safe fashion to prevent from ego-annihilation. 

As Yeats said, who can separate the dancer from the dance?  Who can separate the individual from the disorder?  That is what he is, that is who he is.

Now the question is:  You have indeed gone through a tremendously traumatic experience/relationship.  Its effects on you are paramount. 

The path of healing takes different forms for different people.

Your way of healing may be through intellectual understanding.  Even to do so, you may benefit greatly from having a counselor to sound ideas and emotions off of...and at the very least, may benefit greatly from reading the experiences of people on this site (regardless of the specific board they have posted on).

Thank you for sharing your experiences.  It takes courage to do so.  I hope that the collective warmth, wisdom and sheer strength of the posters on this site will touch you with its healing tendrils.

God Bless.
 

[flavia]

Thank you so much friend! Yes, you are indeed very right that the main focus is on him, not me. It's always been that way for me, but I'm grateful you brought it to my attention as it is something I'm trying very hard to change at the moment. Blessings back at you!

[truthwillsetyoufree]

Flavia,
Mine is into porn of all kinds, including gay, and pictures of male body parts. Has been for years. I don't think he would actually do anything with another guy (the gross out thing), but I am pretty sure he has thought about it. I have always found it very disturbing, and I still don't know what to do about it. I do know from experience that you need a counselor or therapist for yourself. Without working on healing, protecting, and developing yourself as an individual, you will be sucked into the mental illness and eventually you'll be crazy too. Then what good are you to yourself or to him?

Love, real actual unconditional love, is a powerful thing. If we really love someone that way, it binds us to them forever, no matter what. But our love can not heal BPD and the other wounds that rule their lives. Love's power is over the lover, not so much the loved one.

No real suggestions here, but the behavior does sound BPD related to me.

[flavia]

Hi Servantgirl! (name cracks me up!) 
Thank you so much for sharing that! Ironically, I just took a sigh of relief. Whew! Are there any normal people left in the world I wonder?   I would love to get other women's feedback on that. It's such bizarre behavior. It's almost as if it defines explanation. There is nothing you can label it as. Those afflicted with BPD cannot fit into a category...nor be labeled. Is the straight, gay, bi? Hmmm...none of the above. Just BPD I guess. It's sooooooooooo frustrating! I've obsessed about it, tried to apply reason, tried to apply psychology, I've done research, spoken to a couple of people, and yet there are no answers. He doesn't even know the answer. I've talked to him openly about all this. He's really cognisant of his issues and how they've affected me. When  I've asked him at times why he's done what he's done he'll either say 'i don't have an answer for you...i wish I did' or he'll just say 'because i'm a piece of sht..that's obvious..you shouldn't be with someone like me...you deserve better'. I've told him, if you think you're bi-curious go out there and explore buddy, but not while in a relationship with me. I'll still be your friend but go do what you need to do. But he's said no, he knows 100% that's not he wants or who he is. Maybe he's afraid to want that? Who knows? Here I am going in circles again. It's consumed me beyond belief... How about you Servangirl? Do you doubt him really wanting you when you're intimate? Are you secretly jealous of good looking male actors because you think he'll find them hot? I always felt so weird when he would comment on 'how cool' Eric from True Blood was!  He's a hottie don't get me wrong, but I don't want my man being turned on by him. Ughhhhh!

[SeekingInnerPeace]

Hi Flavia,

Thank you for having the tremendous courage to post so honestly about what has gone on with your H.

Though I believe what you have described is less common as far as how it manifests, I can’t help but wonder if perhaps your H’s past behavior was related to either identity disturbance, impulsivity, or both.  I do not believe my H has acted out in the same way as your H, but since he’s a confirmed sex addict, I have to remember that anything is possible.  His risky behaviors of all types continue to change, depending upon what he thinks he can get away with in any given moment.  Once he gets caught by me doing one thing and subsequently confronted by me in an effort to get the truth, he stops doing that risky behavior, only to start up with another.  His sex addiction was the first thing to come to light, and I was very supportive and understanding at first.  My anger only surfaced after much time went by and I discovered that even though he was in “recovery” for this, he continued on with it behind my back anyway.

You are very fortunate that your H has been so transparent with you.  Though such truths can be difficult to hear, at least the truth gives us something to work with, whereas dishonesty and lies do not.  I realize both how difficult it must have been for your H to tell you what he did, and how difficult it must have been for you to hear his words.  I believe it is only through such honesty that unconditional love for someone who is not our blood relative is possible.

Though the storyline is a bit different than what has played out in your own life, the HBO movie, “Normal” with Jessica Lange may help you come to terms even more with what has happened.  The movie depicts a couple married for 25 years.  They had children together.  The H suddenly announces that he is a woman trapped in a man’s body and wants to have a sex change operation.  On one hand, I felt the personal empowerment the H gave himself, as he freed himself from his own chains by finally pursuing becoming himself on the deepest core level.  On the other, I was shocked and appalled and felt deeply for his wife as she suffered so many different emotions, including grief over the loss of who she thought her H was and feelings of deep betrayal tied into a lifetime of an illusion of a marriage.  In the end, her unconditional love for her H wins out.  I am glad that your H does not believe his past tendency is really a part of who he is and that it was just a passing phase.  It is normal for you to question this despite what he tells you, given his history.

I think that for many pwBPD, one of the more common manifestations of acting out relates to sex in one form or another, which can range from viewing porn, to traditional cheating/infidelity, and anything in between.  I wanted to let you know that though I do not have concrete proof nor an honest admission from my own H, there is much circumstantial evidence to support my belief that my H has at least in the past had tendencies that indicate he has been a crossdresser.  Though he is prone to other impulsive, risky behaviors that involve not only a sex addiction but also several other things, I believe his crossdressing is more tied into his issues with identity disturbance vs. impulsivity, but who really knows?  Even if I were to confront him in a gentle way about my belief, he would never, ever in a million years admit the truth to me about this.  He cannot admit the truth to me about far lesser things.

My H lies in general and keeps much hidden from me, even innocuous things about himself.  He is deeply untrusting of people in general, including me, besides having low self-esteem and low self-worth.  He does not reveal much at all about himself to me, and most of what I do know about him, I have discovered on my own, both by playing detective (out of desperation), and having information literally fall into my lap unsolicited, quite by accident.  The accidental information that came my way was my first real proof that there was much more to him than he let on, even though I had already begun to have the sense this was the case.

Whether or not my H truly is a crossdresser is no longer relevant to me, b/c I have already made the decision to get out of my marriage.  It is all the ongoing lies and deception that have led to my decision.  This gives me absolutely nothing at all to work with.  I cannot handle it any longer.

I commend your H and you for having such an honest approach to working on yourselves as individuals, as well as to working on your marriage.

Even though I have already made the decision to leave my marriage once I have found a job again, like you, I continue to search for answers about my H’s BPD behaviors, in my quest for understanding and insights.  What can I say?  I am a very analytical person who has a keen interest in psychology and what makes people tick!  I also do a lot of research on myself and my own issues, though currently, I do more research on him and his issues.  It’s the only way I feel I can stay at least one step ahead of him, which is what becomes necessary when you are dealing with a liar on a daily basis.

I wish your H and you inner peace, as you both work on healing yourselves and your marriage.  I don’t know if I could do what you are doing.  Perhaps with my H’s transparency, I could.

Sincerely,
SIP

[Steph]

 Its possible that he is also conflicted...he has sexual attractions to men, but his own personal value system tells him its not ok, and it then turns gross in his mind, as an act of defense, etc. So, this may be a struggle for him. He may be gay or bisexual and having a miserable time with his own attractions.  BPD would make it even tougher to deal with.

  So..what about you? How are you managing this stuff?

Steph

[Easydoesitnow]

Hi Flavia,

I don't have any answers for you but I can say that this is a very familiar story to me...what your bf has done, what he has said about it...could be my xbf...

[tryingtohelp]

Hello Flavia


I don't know your SO , and am unable to guess at his sexual orientation but speaking for myself as a heterosexual male, there are NO circumstances which would induce me to feel attracted sexually to another male!    Being 'conflicted' or any of those terms are irrelevant.

[flavia]

Hello Flavia


I don't know your SO , and am unable to guess at his sexual orientation but speaking for myself as a heterosexual male, there are NO circumstances which would induce me to feel attracted sexually to another male!    Being 'conflicted' or any of those terms are irrelevant.

I know what you're saying, but you're answering from the perspective of a non-BPD. I'm wondering if the things which conflict them are way out there on a planet far far away, defying any kind of rational explanation. Would love to get some input from a BPD male here. Where can I find me one? 

[o2bz14u]

Well this thread sure is timely...I previously posted about my current uBPDbf keeping my undies and nightgowns around his place to have as a comfort object like a Teddy Bear. See here: http://BPDfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=169239.msg11997793#msg11997793

I just found out yesterday that he is wearing my stuff. And he is using them for sexual gratification. He says it was only that "one time" and he doesn't know why he did it but now I think I have been naive. If he is trying to come out to me as a transvestite that would not bother me. Transvestites are heterosexual and like to wear womens clothing. Not a big deal for me.  If he is wrestling with being a transsexual ie; "women trapped in a man's body" and "saving up for surgery" I don't think I can handle that in a romantic relationship. In fact I tend to steer clear of transexuals in general and can't become good friends with any of them for whatever reason I don't know.

I still think he is using the undies as a fetish -  an object for his gratification, much like he treats me most of the time. Although, one of his best friends, who happens to be a long time close aquaintance of mine too, is an open transvestite who came out a few years ago an now dresses drag in public all the time. In fact we were just over to the guys house over the holidays. Maybe my BF was testing me and seeing how I react to a guy wearing a dress and make-up? Since I obviously did not give a hoot about it he might be wishing to share this aspect of his life with me?


He shared some other things with me this last week and I do not want to go all TMI here on this board, but I really don't mind if BF does housework  wearing a frilly organza vintage apron and nothing else. At least he got the floors clean and sparkling.

[Steph]

Hello Flavia


I don't know your SO , and am unable to guess at his sexual orientation but speaking for myself as a heterosexual male, there are NO circumstances which would induce me to feel attracted sexually to another male!    Being 'conflicted' or any of those terms are irrelevant.

I know what you're saying, but you're answering from the perspective of a non-BPD. I'm wondering if the things which conflict them are way out there on a planet far far away, defying any kind of rational explanation. Would love to get some input from a BPD male here. Where can I find me one?  

 Sexual preference confusion can be part of BPD. Not always, but sometimes. I still have to wonder if he is bisexual, tho, and unable to cope. Thats the most logical and typical explanation. No..no other planet out there

 

Steph

[cyndiloowho]

Mine is into porn of all kinds, including gay, and pictures of male body parts. Has been for years.

Same with my ex. I have been quite baffled by his on/off interest in sex w other men. Bizarre. Here is my post on the topic. I felt the replies were spot on... lots of shame involved with his behavior.
http://BPDfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=162020.msg1552746#msg1552746