How do I stop the present rage

[Think About It...]

I'm just starting out here and I am in the process of learning as much as I can. The main reason I am here today is because things between me and my wife have gotten really bad lately. I just walk in the door and she wants to fight. I'm tired of fighting. If I ignore her, then I'm a insensitive and uncaring. If I fight back then I just hear about how terrible of a person I am.

What do I do, today?

I'm getting the book "stop walking on eggshells", but I haven't gotten it yet. I will still have to read it and that will take some time. I need some quick advice. I am at my wits end.

Thanks.

[JoeSchmoe]

I'm just starting out here and I am in the process of learning as much as I can. The main reason I am here today is because things between me and my wife have gotten really bad lately. I just walk in the door and she wants to fight. I'm tired of fighting. If I ignore her, then I'm a insensitive and uncaring. If I fight back then I just hear about how terrible of a person I am.

What do I do, today?

I'm getting the book "stop walking on eggshells", but I haven't gotten it yet. I will still have to read it and that will take some time. I need some quick advice. I am at my wits end.

Thanks.

[CodependentHusband]

JoeSchmoe,
     Read these links. You can start doing this stuff TODAY!

Before You Can Make Things Better, You have To Stop Making Things Worse


You will be AMAZED at how well validation works. The trick is to not be invalidating at the same time! You have to swallow some pride to do this, but trust me on it... give it a try and just watch what happens.
Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it


S.E.T. is going to allow you to start adressing some of your concerns, but be careful with trying to do too much too soon!

TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth


Let me warn you. Using these tools correctly and effectively takes a bit of PRACTICE! You will catch yourself making some mistakes as you go along, and that's okay. Don't be too hard on yourself. You will get better with practice.


One final thought here... Since you have expressed a desire to Stay, I really recommend that you start posting on the Staying board at: Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner



I'm going to recommend to an administrator that this thread be moved to that board, actually. You really want to post there, because you will find the best advice from others that have chosen to stay in these types of relationships. I post there regularly myself, so, I'll see you over there!

[havana]

It is next to impossible if it has already started. In that case you have to remove yourself. Take a good look at what CodependentHusband gave. You can only stop it before it starts.

[CodependentHusband]

Oh... let me warn you about something too, just so you aren't surprised. When you start using these methods you may not expect this, but you will likely see that things will get a little worse temporarily. I don't want to scare you, but I don't want you to be surprised. DO NOT ENGAGE in arguments. Don't be afraid to leave if you have to. Your pwBPD is going to be confused as to why your behavior has changed for a little while. Within a few days, you will likely start to see the benefits in how she is triggered less by you.

Also, one other thing. If your experience is like mine, you will notice that your wife is still triggered by SOMEONE, but you won't be automatically roped into the drama. Step back and try to let her deal with her own problems, as long as they do not immeditely create a negative impact on you. Hard to do if you are codependent, but necessary.

[CodependentHusband]

It is next to impossible if it has already started. In that case you have to remove yourself. Take a good look at what CodependentHusband gave. You can only stop it before it starts.

That is the voice of wisdom there! So true! If she is dysregulated already, give it time to blow over for sure. Do not engage. Try going to another part of the house and do not speak to her until she has calmed down. If she follows you, you may have to leave the house for a while. Tell her that you are coming back in a couple of hours and that you both need to calm down. Think about her FEELINGS (not the facts), and see if you can empathize with what seems to be the root feeling that she has. Validate what you can understand in terms of her feelings. Don't validate when you cannot empathize with... That would be a lie, and you have to maintain your own integrity for this to work long-term. When you come back, VALIDATE, VALIDATE, VALIDATE. Also, don't defend yourself right now. Read up on JADE: http://BPDfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.msg1364213;topicseen
Try to stick with this. It's HARD at first, because you have been wronged... no doubt about it. Give it a try though, and see what happens. You can deal with your own feelings when some of the chaos abates.

[tuum est61]

If I ignore her, then I'm a insensitive and uncaring. If I fight back then I just hear about how terrible of a person I am.

What do I do, today?

CDH has given good advice and good links for you to help yourself.  

At the early stages, when your SO is just generally raging, the best thing you can do is detach from her emotions and set boundaries for yourself. I am not so big on validating - especially when they are angry.  

Realize that you cannot nor should not try to control her anger.  It just is.  Accepting that and not trying to suggest that she is irrational is in fact, fairly validating for her.  I can't tell you how much just NOTtelling my W that she is acting irrationally has helped things.

Trying to be more "assertive" with validation, however, as directed in the links provide by CDH,  has not worked well with my wife. Saying things like "I understand how you would feel that way" just triggers her - despite being borderline, she is highly emotionally intelligent and thinks such talk is "manipulative."  

If my W rages or in fact "silent rages" (gives me the silent treatment), I don't spend much time validating - I just leave.  Sometimes I say things like "I wont stay and argue," or "I won't stay and have you ignore me."  In that way it becomes "active ignoring," and can't really be identified as throwing silent treatment (back) at her.  And its all about your choices, not hers.  By the way, Don't negotiate, and say, "I will stay if you stop raging" or in the case of silent treatment "talk to me".  Ya hafta leave (for a while) and come back - whether that is to the next room or the next county.  Get out of her space and into some of your own.

Being BPD, her anger subsides more quickly when she is on its own - nothwithstanding you WOULD think it would trigger abandonment.   My presence just triggers her further, even if I DON't say anything - which is hard to do, so its better that I just go do something entirely for me...  

So my advice for "what you should do today" when your wife rages is make like a tree and leave.  

[beyondbelief]

Validation is a huge tool.  It is also often misunderstood.  Among my many mistakes was believing it meant agreeing, believing, fixing, or several other things.  So many times my attempts to validate were actually quite invalidating.  I now believe the soundbite is "Make the other person feel felt (heard)".

http://BPDfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=81442.0;all

One phrase that can be triggering is "I understand".  To be honest you really don't understand how anyone else feels.  About as close as you can get is understanding how you think you would feel in their situation.  Those are two very different things.  You may find using something different works a lot better.  You may want to give "I think" a shot and keep trying until you find things that work better.

[SmileAnyway]

   hi jc
Your situation is similar to mine.  The relationship is only abusive for now.  Therefore validation is something for the future when things hopefully cool.  For now boundary setting is your only really effective route.
As CDH states you will experience from her 'extinction burst' which is her disbelief that you are not responding as normal.  It may get worse before it gets better.
Since you can only control you... Why not look at these refocusing ideas...

Rekindle r/s with family and friends
Keep good diet exercise routine
Be creative, develope a skill, look into that hobby
If spiritually inclined, feed the inclination
Love her, dodge the bullets the condition creates

 Hi!

[tuum est61]

Validation is a huge tool.  It is also often misunderstood.  Among my many mistakes was believing it meant agreeing, believing, fixing, or several other things.  So many times my attempts to validate were actually quite invalidating.  I now believe the soundbite is "Make the other person feel felt (heard)".

http://BPDfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=81442.0;all

One phrase that can be triggering is "I understand".  To be honest you really don't understand how anyone else feels.  About as close as you can get is understanding how you think you would feel in their situation.  Those are two very different things.  You may find using something different works a lot better.  You may want to give "I think" a shot and keep trying until you find things that work better.

I agree with the problem of using the word "understand"  But most verbs are an issue, as is the use of I statements, which, if they weren't BPD, would work.
Just drop the "I" and "you" part part of this all together as well as the attendent verbs.  (Being amongst "nons" I will toss around my thoughts and feelings with "I" statements ad nauseum   )  

Untold anger ensues from my BPD when I suggest she has a feeling or thought, or in fact offer my feelings or thoughts. She doesnt give a damn about what I think about her stuff and there's no way I can possibly guess how she feels about it.  "You've NEVER had to deal with the stuff I have!"  That has been and still is the hardest part about BPD for me - trying to be the shoulder for them to lean on, but they just haul off and punch it instead.  

If you are going to try assertively validating, go to the neutral and say things like "That really sucks"  or "Ouch!" or "Damn" or "That's gotta hurt" "Noone deserves that" or  anything that mirrors how you think they are feeling without you verbalizing how you think they are feeling.  BPDs like mirroring.  They like you to automatically get them, not analyze anything.  

I still think the best validation is just not to question their feelings/thoughts.  Goes  a LONG way.  And just get out of the way when they rage/silent rage.  It will go away and then you come back.  

Its what I am doing right now.  Been subject to "silent rage" going on 36 hours now.  I was typing on FtF and she swooped into the room to "catch" me. I was prepared and had logged off just before she got to the screen.  Since she pressed me, I did told her I was entering stuff about us into my diary and that triggered her. But I have set a boundary around my diary with her.   I have a right to my privacy, including a diary.  I don't want to tell her about FtF because that compromises what I could/would say here, although I have told her I have been getting support from a an online support group.  I am not going to validate how she feels about me keeping a diary.  Some things are just boundaries.    

[beyondbelief]

I would say both boundaries and validation are important and when you combine the 2 the power is squared not doubled.  Of the two skills boundaries are easier to understand and to do initially.  Validation is an acquired skill that takes a lot of practice for most people.  You can keep your boundaries and validate at the same time in fact you should.  Saying anything more here would risk hijacking the thread.

[CodependentHusband]

JoeSchmoe,
    OMG! You are in GOOD hands here! Just seeing which members are responding to your post on this thread, and noticing what advice they are giving you makes me certain of that! I really do feel like they have shown me the "man behind the curtain" so to speak.

  On validating: I find it to be very helpful myself; however, as Maligned pointed out, sometimes it is not received the way you intended. My wife is also very intelligent, and sometimes when I am genuinely trying to validate her feelings that I do understand, she feels like I am patronizing her or talking down to her. Maligned is right in that not being INvalidating will get you a lot of mileage in and of itself. You're going to have to find out through trial and error exactly what will work with your r/s, and with yourself. A BIG part of this is learning how to do all of these figurative back flips without feeling unappreciated and/or resentful. So, do look at yourself... not because anything is wrong with you. You didn't cause this to happen, but you do play a part in this. Radical acceptance is your friend. It is HARD! I didn't think that I would EVER be able to do it, but my life has been SOOO much better since radical acceptance. I also found out that I love my wife unconditionally... opened my eyes.

What does Radical Appeptance Look Like?

[JoeSchmoe]

Thanks for all the info. Unfortunately, I am new here and am still trying to navigate the waters. When she rages at me I usually end up removing myself from the situation until she cools down. I don't normally fight with her or argue. However there are certain times when I feel that I must address her criticism and behavior. For example when she tries to emasculate me in front of my sons. I will not tolerate that and I will address it right then and there. I will defend myself and fight if I have to. Or when she is abusive to the children and my son looks at me like "daddy why aren't you helping me". I will step in and intervene. This only enrages her more because I am "taking the kids side" and not hers. I don't really care about my feelings. She can try to cut me down all she wants. I know where it is coming from, but I can not just give here free reign to do and say whatever she wants without consequence.

This whole validation thing is going to be hard for me to learn. It seems a lot like enabling to me, but I'll try to figure it out.

Anything I say can and will be used against me when the opportunity presents itself, so any change in my behavior will be noticed and looked upon as cynical.

I have so much to say and so little time and opportunity. So much of what I read on here is so similar to what I am experiencing. I just don't know where to begin sometimes.

I am very confused right now and my biggest problem is learning when to stand up for what is right and when to just let her rage on. She obviously uses me as a punching bag for all of her problems. She hates her father and I am his stand in. She hates my father and has vowed not to let me turn out like him (even thought he is not that bad). And that is just the tip of the ice burg. I just want to scream right now.

[beyondbelief]

On validating: I find it to be very helpful myself; however, as Maligned pointed out, sometimes it is not received the way you intended.

Maligned is right in that not being INvalidating will get you a lot of mileage in and of itself. You're going to have to find out through trial and error exactly what will work with your r/s, and with yourself.

Very well put.  Validation is an acquired skill because most people (certainly me) thought they were validating when in fact were invalidating.  When you actually validate things will usually improve though it may take some time.  When you invalidate someone no matter what your intent was things will ALWAYS get worse. 

Almost everyone goes through a learning curve to get it "right" more often than wrong.  You can short cut the learning curve by reading the lessons here etc (or creating a post asking about it).   Start with the definition as even that is a surprise to many (yeah me again).

[JoeSchmoe]

So if I have questions, is it best to ask each one in a separate thread? I have a million questions and I'm sure it wouldn't be good to just keep opening new threads.

[beyondbelief]

So if I have questions, is it best to ask each one in a separate thread? I have a million questions and I'm sure it wouldn't be good to just keep opening new threads.

Usually you want to avoid starting a new topic in the middle of an other thread.  If people weren't following the original one then they will never see the new one in the middle and that can really limit the number of responses.

You may have a million questions, does that mean you need an answer to all of them right now?  One thing that works well is to start a new thread with your most important question and sit back for awhile.  The responses to that one may answer some of your other questions, perhaps you will also ask some related Q's in the original thread. 

Then post a different Q as a new thread.  One person having a couple of active threads going at a time is pretty common.  If you have 10 going you may find you will not get too many responses on many of them.  You are in a marathon not a sprint!

[CodependentHusband]

Yes. Try a couple of threads at a time. Responses are quick to come here. Also, read all of the lessons and workshops... That content has been created and selected by wise, experienced people. It's normal to want to dive in like this. Taking an interest like this will have you up to speed quickly. Patience, Grasshopper, patience!  

[tuum est61]

JS, When it comes to kids, it's a whole diffeent ball game.  In my view setting boundaries is even more necessary. I played the "not taking sides" for 5 years. But the bottom line is that my uBPDw has abused my daughters while I stood by. 

It's tough, but you have to very mindfully establish boundaries re your W and the children - mainly meaning removing them from harms way.  My two older daughters had to leave my home early due to my W. My d14 is currently staying with friends due to my W's hostility towards her. Mine was a blended family.  Unless my W gets therapy, it will always be a was.