When do I stand up for myself and when do I let it go?

[Think About It...]

I find the behavior of my wife to be very abusive and I think it is inherently wrong. So when she criticizes me do I defend myself? Do I just let it go? Up to now I have just let it go to keep peace in the house, unless it is really grievous. But that seems to have emboldened her and made things worse. She sees me as passive and hates it. Yet she can't stand when I stand up for myself and say that I won't take her abuse anymore. The more I stand up for myself the hard she fights to keep me down.

I don't know where to draw the line.

[JoeSchmoe]

I find the behavior of my wife to be very abusive and I think it is inherently wrong. So when she criticizes me do I defend myself? Do I just let it go? Up to now I have just let it go to keep peace in the house, unless it is really grievous. But that seems to have emboldened her and made things worse. She sees me as passive and hates it. Yet she can't stand when I stand up for myself and say that I won't take her abuse anymore. The more I stand up for myself the hard she fights to keep me down.

I don't know where to draw the line.

[Wanda]

 HEllo,
 there is alot to learn on here, and boundaries is one of them. Boundaries are for you not them.
 THings will get worse for a short while at first when you start to stand up for yourself, but instead of staying and listening don't let her say those things don't defend nothing just walk away go for a short walk drive what ever and don't talk to her on the cell phone either after you leave. take that time out a much needed one, and let her deal with what ever she needs to .
 let her know you don't like her tone and until things calm down you are going for a walk or drive. and simple as that very calmly tell her you will be back in a short while...

[LoveNotWar]

If the conversation is calm and normal you validate every chance you get.

If the conversation becomes abusive, heated, argumentative it's time for a time out. I say "this conversation is too tense for me, I need a break". Then after I leave I text and say I hope we can finish our conversation when I feel calmer. I own the need for a break. Also I sprinkle a couple of I love yous in there and keep my voice as calm and soft as I can under the circumstances. I never used to leave in time but I'm learning. I actually feel guilty for walking away but I know avoiding those awful scenes is good for both of us and the r/s.

When you take a break you might find a safe place in your home or you might have to leave for a couple hours. Lots of folks  do the park, Starbucks, the office, a walk, a run, dinner, etc.

And you never JADE which means justify, attack, defend, explain.

It's hard living w/a person w/BPD. I made a choice to stay w/my husband and that means I need to learn how to not make things worse. I keep my eye on the prize...peace! For me it's not about who's to blame or being right. It's about avoiding abuse and making the situation better.

[CodependentHusband]

When you start to realize that in her reality, her feelings = facts, that helps. Your way of defending yourself most effectively is to not be there for her to abuse. It's hard, but when you do all of the things recommended to you, the results will speak for themselves. Learn to leave the situation when she is being abusive, validate like crazy when she is calm, accept her for who she is. It's hard, and takes practice, but you can get there if you stick with it.

Learn how to detach with love, if at all possible. THAT is as hard as radical acceptance to most... It was for me, at least. If you resent her while you are doing this at first, don't give up! It's normal. Remind yourself that she cannot help this. Replace your resentment with compassion. It's the only thing that worked for me.

[JoeSchmoe]

Thanks for the info. I know it is good advice. But how do you continually take the high road when you are constantly being bombarded with criticism. The last time she blew up at me was in the car. There was nowhere to go. The trip was 90 minutes long and it had just started.

I know I have a lot to learn and I'm trying to learn as fast as I can. There are some important things that need to be discussed, but we can't ever have a "normal" discussion about anything unless I agree with her on every point. If I don't, she starts getting defensive and then argumentative.

[CodependentHusband]

JoeSchmoe,
     When you have replaced resentment with compassion you will know that you have made it to "the other side."

Call it Zen... call it a "Jedi Mind Trick" You WILL know when you are there, and it is a journey that you will take yourself. I wish so bad that I could find exactly the right thing to tell you how to find the peace that many of us now have with our imperfect lives with our pwBPD, but the reality is that this takes time, effort, patience, and compassion. The fact that you are here on this site in the first place indicates to me that you probably already have all of these qualities.

I don't mean to sound cryptic about this, and I 100% understand where your mind is right now, as I've been there! You WILL get most of your issues addressed, but you will find that the way you go about it is going to be different than what you expect right now. Even finding out how to "take care of yourself" is a big challenge. You WILL continue to face some challenges as long as you have a BPD in your life. The trick is getting off of the rollercoaster, and the methods you are learning, when used together, are greater than the sum of all parts. Have some patience with yourself throughout this process. It IS hard to accept some of this stuff! I won't lie to you about that. With effort, I hope you can get there.

[JoeSchmoe]

Thanks a lot. I respect and believe what you are saying. I am just in a real rough spot right now. The stress had taken its toll on me; physically, emotionally. My job is suffering. I'm at a low point and I need to find a way back up.

[JoeSchmoe]

I am pretty sure I have reached the "detachment" stage, but I was never really sure that was a good thing to do, so I would try to get things back to where they were (reattach, if you will) but they never stayed there. I was always under the impression that detachment was a bad thing and when I felt myself getting there I would try to change course and do something to bring us closer together but it always backfired and I just kept trying. I'm pretty sure she also viewed the detachment as not loving her, but sometimes it was the only way I could keep my sanity.

[CodependentHusband]

Thanks a lot. I respect and believe what you are saying. I am just in a real rough spot right now. The stress had taken its toll on me; physically, emotionally. My job is suffering. I'm at a low point and I need to find a way back up.

I understand how you feel. I'm sorry it is like this right now. It is rough! When I first came here in November, I felt as bad as you do right now. It's hard to go through this, but you have hope now, and seeing a way out will hopefully comfort you just a little right now.

[CodependentHusband]

I am pretty sure I have reached the "detachment" stage, but I was never really sure that was a good thing to do, so I would try to get things back to where they were (reattach, if you will) but they never stayed there. I was always under the impression that detachment was a bad thing and when I felt myself getting there I would try to change course and do something to bring us closer together but it always backfired and I just kept trying. I'm pretty sure she also viewed the detachment as not loving her, but sometimes it was the only way I could keep my sanity.

The trick is detaching with love. Anyone can detach with bitterness, resentment, disgust, etc. The only way I was able to do this is to keep reminding myself that my wife is VERY sick. When you start to feel resentment, try reminding yourself of that. Don't tell her, of course. It's tempting to want to have an open dialogue with her. Resist the urge.

[Wanda]

The last time she blew up at me was in the car. There was nowhere to go. The trip was 90 minutes long and it had just started.


 Boundaries are all part of this as well, raging in a car with a bPD is so draining but many on here go through it and that is when you need to say ok enough is enough my husband use to road rage i would just get out of the car and walk, or i make him get out. i use to drive to a police station HE would then calm down i would set a boundary you road rage i won't drive with you for one week i made the boundary something i could go through with because if  you make a boundary and you don't it becomes a threat.
 IN a car on a road trip can be even be  worse if you were close to home i would turn around and go back, i would make sure i was driving, and i would pull over, if to far again going for a walk till things calm down. There are all kinds of things you can do. but to do them you have to be strong , and that is hard because you just want peace b ut to get there sometimes you just have to set boundaries and go through with them.
 I have been married 14 years things are so much better now but took many years to get there things take time,  and you have to take care of you first...
 
I had to learn to take care of me i went to counseling read many books because to be strong you have to take care of you.

[CodependentHusband]

What I have done is told her that I refuse to argue with her, and I do not say anything back other than "we both need to calm down." I would continue driving and remain silent. Eventually she will quit yelling at you. She can feel tense, but you don't have to! Of course, you will feel tense the first few times you try this, and there will be times in the future that it will happen again; however, with practice, you will find yourself realizing that SHE is the only one feeling tense during these times... as for you, you're just driving. 

You can do this! I know you will get there. Determination and practice with boundaries and detaching with love will get you there. It took me a few months to get to where I KNEW I had made it through, but it did get better every day within a few days of starting to use the S.E.T., validation, and other tools.

[moonunit]

Good topic.
I have a question, i have had a few incidents of my SO raging at me while i was driving, and i have told her that i do not want to get into it with her while i am driving. I usually listen to her freak out and don't respond, as it is not safe. She has said, fine, let me out and will open the car door while we are moving.
I would now pull over and try to have a discussion with her if possible and try to figure out what is triggering the outburst.

But,  if she still insists on getting out, what do i do ?

Sometimes it has been close to her house, other times it has been in the middle of nowwhere. I usually try to prevent her from getting out because it isn't safe for her to left in those area's and i don't want her to be in harms way.

[CodependentHusband]

It is a tough one... I let my wife out in a bad part of town last November at night. I didn't know what else to do. My D7 was I'm the car at the time. She called me to pick her up about 30 mins later. It IS scary stuff. I wish I had a better answer for you. You just have to make the best decisions you can in the heat of the moment. During this incident, my wife was so dysregulated that I feared she would actually jump from a moving car.

[CodependentHusband]

Another thing... Your heart has to be in this. You can't fake your way through this. Do NOT validate something that you do not really understand. People with BPD are far too attuned ("hypervigilent") to not notice when someone isn't being genuine. Body language counts a lot too.

If it feels like I am telling you to stand on a balance beam while hoolahooping and balancing a stack of plates in your right hand, snapping your fingers with your left hand, all while reciting as many tongue twisters as you know, then you get the idea. This is overwhelming to do all at once... Concentrate on one thing at a time and build on it. I'm not using all of the methods I would like to right now, but I am trying to get there. Break it down into pieces to keep from feeling overwhelmed.

[JoeSchmoe]

OK, my heart is in it (as much as it can be). Right now I feel wounded. I will get over this as well, just like I have all the other times. I just need some time. I am getting the "walking on eggshells" book today and I'll start reading it an put whatever I learn from it into practice.

What is the first thing I should try to master? What is the best place to start?

Also what does D7 mean? (7 year old daughter?)

[CodependentHusband]

OK, my heart is in it (as much as it can be). Right now I feel wounded. I will get over this as well, just like I have all the other times. I just need some time. I am getting the "walking on eggshells" book today and I'll start reading it an put whatever I learn from it into practice.

What is the first thing I should try to master? What is the best place to start?

Also what does D7 mean?

We use a lot of abbreviations here. D7 = daughter, 7 years old. A few more you will see are dBPDw (diagnosed BPD wife), or dx = diagnosed. SD = stepdaughter, SS = step-son, etc.

What do all these abbreviations mean?


The FIRST thing I woudl try is validation: Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it


Also, S.E.T. Communication tools (SET, PUVAS, DEARMAN)


S.E.T. is going to feel weird at first, because you may feel that you are intentionally being manipulative. It takes practice. Watch for her reactions when you try this... if you see her starting to get upset, validate, validate, validate! Try to concentrate on what she seems to be FEELING more than the facts. Empathize with the feelings she has, even if logic clearly says that she shouldn't be feeling the way that she does. Her feelings ARE her reality. Her feelings ARE how she is experiencing this world. This is true every bit as much as your reality is one of disbelief that she would be so upset about insignificant things. Try these TODAY.

Watch out for something with validation here... it is tricky when she will say negative things... You want to validate her negative feelings too, if and when appropriate. If she says, "It's a crappy world," Don't say, "No it's not... we have a great house, great kids, etc." That is INvalidating, and it will tend to trigger her most likely. For things that she says that make absolutely no sense to you, try to acknowledge that you hear what she is saying, but don't comment on them if you can't relate to where she is coming from. A validating response to "It's a crappy world" might be, "Yes. there is a lot of suffering in the world, and life can be really stressful."


Hope this helps.

[moonunit]

CodependentHusband, i have been there too, she actually had the car door open and was about to step out at 20 miles/hr. It really defies all logic.
In the past i have left her 2x , once about 3 blocks from her house as she was getting out of a moving car, the other one, i left her over the boarder, we were at a casino, she had been drinking lots, wanted/demanded i take more money out of my bank account ( basically draining all remaining funds ), i refused, she had a meltdown and ran away from me in the casino. I searched for her for about 45 mins, did not find her and then left and drove home ( 2hrs away ). She ended up calling her mother in a panic, then had her brother come and pick her up, they were all pretty mad at me at the time, i explained what had happened but fell on deaf ears. It can be quite frustrating at times ! 

[CodependentHusband]

Moonunit,
    Ouch! That IS a bad experience! A bad experience for everyone involved, no doubt. So many times we are placed in impossible positions. Are you still withyour pwBPD? If so, I hope that things are better now. It's hard seeing someone you love behave in such a reckless manner.

[JoeSchmoe]

I'm really not trying to be negative here and I want to learn as much as I can, but right now a lot of this does not make sense to me. I have to constantly view things with my kids perspective in mind because right now, my mission in life is to protect them from their mother's madness.

So let's take your example. We are sitting around the table eating dinner and my wife says "its a crappy world." and I respond with "yes, there is a lot of suffering in the world...".

Firstly my older kids would say, "daddy, that is not what you teach us, why would you say that?" And I would totally agree. I can't lie to appease my wife's incorrect view of the world. They will see right through it.

Secondly I don't want to lie and pretend to be something I'm not or say something I don't mean. I don't want the kids to see me act one way with my wife and a different way with them. That is very confusing to them. They are young and impressionable.

Lets' use a more realistic example so I can get a better understanding of how I should handle it.

Say we are sitting around the table and my child (S4) asks me for more milk. I say "yes, you can have more." and then my wife chimes in and says "no, you have had enough milk, you can only have water". (She does this often to challenge me for authority. If I give my child milk anyway, she rages against me. If I don't, then my child learns that my word means nothing and that mommy is in charge, no matter how irrational the reason for not giving them milk may be.) So now my child starts crying because they were told they can't have more milk and my wife starts to mock them; pretending to cry like they do, making fun of them for crying (a 4 yr. old).

How would you handle that? I give them the milk and my wife criticizes me and doesn't speak to me for the rest of the day. I don't say anything to her about the mocking and I feel bad for not standing up for the child. They learn that daddy is not there to protect them.