Feelings and Facts

[Think About It...]

True maturity isn't that you "feel" like doing something; it is doing the action even when you don't "feel it."

FEELINGS are not FACTS - let me say that again; feelings are not facts.  Making a decision based on feelings...if I recall, don't we blame the pwBPD in our lives for doing that? 

These are both quotes I pulled from Seeking Balance in response to a post I made on Leaving. While I found the comparison a harsh assessment of what I have been doing, I suppose in a way, it's both accurate (in that what I am doing makes no sense) and possibly carefully engineered to spurn me into action- because I definitely do not want to look like I am acting like a pwBPD by allowing my feelings to cloud my judgement.

So... a few things I need to think about are (outside of the crisis planning)
-What are the facts?
-What are my feelings?
-How are my feelings getting in the way of my acting on the facts?
-lastly, how do I proceed with ignoring my feelings and acting solely on facts?

[momtario]

True maturity isn't that you "feel" like doing something; it is doing the action even when you don't "feel it."

FEELINGS are not FACTS - let me say that again; feelings are not facts.  Making a decision based on feelings...if I recall, don't we blame the pwBPD in our lives for doing that? 

These are both quotes I pulled from Seeking Balance in response to a post I made on Leaving. While I found the comparison a harsh assessment of what I have been doing, I suppose in a way, it's both accurate (in that what I am doing makes no sense) and possibly carefully engineered to spurn me into action- because I definitely do not want to look like I am acting like a pwBPD by allowing my feelings to cloud my judgement.

So... a few things I need to think about are (outside of the crisis planning)
-What are the facts?
-What are my feelings?
-How are my feelings getting in the way of my acting on the facts?
-lastly, how do I proceed with ignoring my feelings and acting solely on facts?

[momtario]

Let's start with some facts.
-My NPDh is abusive, under all categories other than ritual/religious abuse.
-I have no resources of my own.
-I need a new birth certificate for D2 before leaving unless I want to be charged with kidnapping (as per dv people)
-I have a really big family and 2 good friends who I know would do anything to help me- if I asked.
-The cycle of abuse will repeat again and again until I make it stop. The good days only play a small part in this cycle, and should be treated as such.
-pushing and pulling are all part of the game. Strong pulling does not mean "I'm sorry" even if the words are used.
-The cycle of abuse will repeat again and again until I make it stop. The good days only play a small part in this cycle, and should be treated as such. (it bears repeating)
and, one more time, for good measure

-The cycle of abuse will repeat again and again until I make it stop. The good days only play a small part in this cycle and should be treated as such.

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for analyzing and making the decision to either continue working on your relationship or to leave it. If you have already please advance to "L3 Leaving" or the "L4 Staying" board. All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[momtario]

And, the feelings which is where I get muddled. I have a difficult time sometimes labelling my feelings, and tend to bottle them a lot, as opposed to examining them the way I maybe should.

There is definitely a lot of fear. Occasionally terror. Fear of staying- fear of leaving. Fear of the unknown. Fear of having to do all of this on my own. There's the fear of what might happen with my kids when they are visiting their father after I leave. The fear of losing the family I have come to love a great deal (my in-laws). Fear of retaliation. Fear of the fact that this might mean taking my children out of their school and away from their friends. Fear of having to tell my family why I am leaving, and what I put up with for so long.

I wish I was better at feeling anger. I tend to view anger with disgust and shove it aside or under the rug as soon as I see it creeping into me, and that is really my biggest problem. Hiding anger under a carpet of undeserved love. I wish I could yell and scream and rage. I don't even know how to get angry. There have been 2 times in the last bit where i have been angry- disproportionately angry, and not really directed at anyone or anything, and I was amazed by it, because I don't get angry. I had nothing to be angry about at those times, but I felt it. Why can't I feel anger when I should?

And then there is the loss I will feel, when I lose my sister, my nephew, my MIL and the husband I like to pretend I have. His cousins and aunts have become good friends.

I have invested a third of my life into this relationship. My entire adult life. Failure is something that I grew up believing was the enemy. Admitting defeat was a problem to avoid at all costs. I am thinking though, that staying is more an admission of defeat than leaving; but there is always going to be that lingering, nagging question of what if I gave him another chance, and he took it? What if this was the time he would have actuallly changed?

[momtario]

So, I am thinking he mgiht be catching on that things aren't right. I am going out of my way not to say "I love you" and not to purposefully have even innocuous physical contact. After the last few days, even the thought makes me cringe.

[OnceConfused]

May I offer the way of the buddha that is taking the MIDDLE ROAD. It means lead a balance life.
Now I see that your life is quite unbalanced. FOr example, in the previous post you mentioned so many time the word FEAR. You fear this or that ... and then because of that fear, you are paralyzed. The only way out of the woods is to walk out of it, my friend.

Fear is good because fear will keep us from harming ourselves, but too much fear will turn you into a obsessive compulsive disorder. Buddha, before his death, saw in his mind that MIRA (the temptress) appears again to seduce him, in the past he simply turned her away, but now years later, he told his disciples that he opened his door and invited her in for a cup of tea. He then asked Mira, why are you here?. The net of the story is that we need to invite our fear in our heart for a cup of tea and ask Fear, why are you here?. Then you will find your Satori, the moment of enlightenment.

Why do you fear of the unknown? In reality do you know what tomorrow will bring? No. Do you have the promise from God that you will be alive tomorrow ? No. So why fear of the unknown? You came from nothing and you will leave with nothing. So why afraid of fear?

Why do you fear you will lose your inlaws? If they truly are your friends then they will be with you without conditions.

Why do you fear your children will be away from their friends? Is that separation will make them less of a human being? Nope. So many kids have moved around and still become a great person. Will you be the only divorce on this earth with children away from their school friends? Nope.

Why do you fear of telling your family your tribulation? Your family will accept you for whatever you are.

See, all your fears are based on your mind and its creation. These fears are like symptoms of an inner conflict or pain or an unfinished business you have deep inside your soul. It is not your fears but really your past wound or past experiences.

Take your time and sit quietly, ask the questions why. Why am I feeling this way or that way? and you will begin to peel back the layers of soul, and you will go where you hide these hurts. SOlve these and you will solve of your current problems.

James ALlen said it well, 'circumstance does not make a man, it REVEALS him'. Here your circumstance does not make you but it reveals who you are deep inside.

 

[colourguy]

Could possibly spending a little time getting in touch with your anger help crystalise more of a decision on leaving?

I understand healthy anger is a signpost to something that is wrong and needs attention...

Just a thought.

[momtario]

Thank you for your replies, Once Confused and colourguy. You have actually led me into the next bit of what I am doing here. Now that I have sorted out my feelings enough to identify and label a few of them (the ones that I feel are barring me from acting, and the ones that may help me to act) I can work through them, analyze them, and then set them aside, as opposed to stuffing them into a bottle that is really overflowing.

The fear of leaving vs the fear of staying- they both fall under my fear of the unknown. Both have practical elements regarding safety, and less practical elements regarding my seeming unwillingness to give up after trying for so long to make things work.

What I need is to get to the point where the fear of leaving no longer exceeds the fear of staying, hopefully by lessening my fear of leaving, as opposed to a sudden worsening of my fear to stay. I think I will take some time over the next few weeks to determine what it will take to leave- both the practical aspects (the divorce process) and the emotional aspects (grieving the relationship, telling the kids, telling him, etc).
I find the greatest bar to my action, in all areas of life is not knowing what to expect, so if I think about what to expect, and spend time visualising a life without abuse, the fear of leaving, and many of the other fears associated with this one, will hopefully dissipate. This will leave only the fear to stay, and that will help in my plan to leave.

By the way, I am mostly just babbling to myself here, trying to convince myself, and if any of you are reading it, I commend you for it- I doubt I am making any sense, so thank you .
Any and all comments and advice are certainly welcome- all the people here are what has helped me to get to this point, instead of completely stuck, where I was a few months ago when I joined.

[colourguy]

By the way, I am mostly just babbling to myself here, trying to convince myself, and if any of you are reading it, I commend you for it- I doubt I am making any sense, so thank you .

Your babbling makes sense to me 

[momtario]

Must be because you are... also Canadian, I am guessing, from the familiar spelling of your name?

[colourguy]

Let's start with some facts.
-My NPDh is abusive, under all categories other than ritual/religious abuse.
-I have no resources of my own.
-I need a new birth certificate for D2 before leaving unless I want to be charged with kidnapping (as per dv people)
-I have a really big family and 2 good friends who I know would do anything to help me- if I asked.
-The cycle of abuse will repeat again and again until I make it stop. The good days only play a small part in this cycle, and should be treated as such.
-pushing and pulling are all part of the game. Strong pulling does not mean "I'm sorry" even if the words are used.
-The cycle of abuse will repeat again and again until I make it stop. The good days only play a small part in this cycle, and should be treated as such. (it bears repeating)
and, one more time, for good measure

-The cycle of abuse will repeat again and again until I make it stop. The good days only play a small part in this cycle and should be treated as such.

Just want to pick you up on this momtario. Here i think is your biggest resource...you say they would do anything for you - if i was in your position i would call them all together and ask. Sounds like they are great friends so i'm sure they will be able to to help you with lots of things from keeping your confidence to helping you formulate a plan and practically carrying that out if thats what you choose. You can't do this on your own and need lots of help and support.
I'm a pretty practical guy and get things done but iv'e had to come to terms with asking for support and help from my friends - this stuff does your head in and if nothing else you need them to keep bouncing it all off.

 

[colourguy]

Must be because you are... also Canadian, I am guessing, from the familiar spelling of your name?

No...the beautiful country of Australia  Hi!

[momtario]

thanks, colourguy, and I thought we were the only ones in the world with the words colour, flavour, favour, behaviour, neighbour, etc. 

There are many Aussies on this board...

[argyle]

One thing about healthy boundaries...

Healthy boundaries don't include asking for help with the toils of normal life. 
But they do include asking for help with burdens that are too much to bear.
Being married to a BPD, particularly with 3 kids, is too much to bear.
It would be normal and healthy to ask for help from your friends and family.

Lists are a good first start.
1. Get a lawyer.
2. Get a list from that lawyer.
3. Get a DV counselor.
4. Get a list from that DV counselor
5. Contact friends and family.
6. Ask for the things you don't have already. (Emotional aid, some babysitting, ...)

You might want to be careful about giving your husband warnings.

--Argyle

[momtario]

A possible upcoming financial crisis that I had been viewing as something else to bar me from leaving, for goodness knows how long, may actually be a window of opportunity for me to leave.
There is a huge possibility that his company will go on strike or be locked out starting next week, and we have come to an agreement that the only way we could avoid bankruptcy would be to "stage" a separation, and have me move in with my parents, and apply for mother's allowance.
Wow. And, hmmmm...

[argyle]

Perfect.  Go for it.   Crossed fingers.

--Argyle

[Rise]

...because I definitely do not want to look like I am acting like a pwBPD by allowing my feelings to cloud my judgement.

Allowing your feelings to cloud your judgment isn't a BPD thing. It's a human thing. We all do it at some point. Emotions and emotional needs are some of the most powerful driving forces in our lives. It's particularly hard when we spend so long in a situation that is emotionally unstable. We adjust to it. We become used to it. We start to justify it. And it's natural. To a certain extent, it's the only way we can survive the emotional roller-coaster that we seem to be stuck on.

You've taken the first, and in someways hardest step. You've realized this isn't your roller-coaster. It's his, and you do have the ability to get off it if you choose. That's the difference between us as the pwBPD in our lives. We don't have to be ruled by our emotions. We can make the choice not to be. They don't. Whether or not you choose to leave, the most important part is knowing that you have the choice. Because nothing changes without action, and you can't take action until you know you have the ability to do so.

There is definitely a lot of fear. Occasionally terror. Fear of staying- fear of leaving. Fear of the unknown. Fear of having to do all of this on my own. There's the fear of what might happen with my kids when they are visiting their father after I leave. The fear of losing the family I have come to love a great deal (my in-laws). Fear of retaliation. Fear of the fact that this might mean taking my children out of their school and away from their friends. Fear of having to tell my family why I am leaving, and what I put up with for so long.

All these are natural fears as well. Everyone (okay, maybe not everyone, but certainly most everyone) fears the unknown. Fear is not a bad thing. It's healthy. It's your body/mind telling you to be cautious. It can keep you safe. But at the end of the day, it's just an emotion. And we as healthy, stable adults, cannot allow emotions to rule our lives. That's what our BPD loved ones do, not us.

You can't control what your husband will do when he has your kids. All you can do is provide them with the safest, most stable environment you can when they are with you. If his actions while he has them are dangerous, then you have to fight to keep them away from him. Not easy, but I promise, worth the fight. You also don't know that his actions will be negative when he is with them. This may turn out to be a healthier situation for everyone involved. You just don't (and can't) know.

It's difficult moving your children away from everything they know. It's never a pleasant experience having to leave your school, or your friends, but they'll survive. Kids move everyday, and while it's not fun, they get over it eventually. Particularly when they are young as yours are.

If you really do decide to leave, don't be afraid to tell your family why you are leaving. Don't be afraid to tell them why you stayed. You stayed because you were not ready to leave before. It doesn't matter why that is. This is fear based in shame. And you do not have anything to be ashamed of. You tried your hardest to make a difficult situation work the best you could. You need to be proud that you're doing something to change things for the better now. It's an incredibly difficult thing to do, and something many people never even attempt.

...And then there is the loss I will feel, when I lose my sister, my nephew, my MIL and the husband I like to pretend I have. His cousins and aunts have become good friends.

Just because you don't want to continue your relationship with your husband doesn't mean you can't have one with your in-laws. I know when I finally took my children and left, my bond with my ex's family grew stronger. They understood that there was something wrong with her. They may not have known what it was, or how deep the damage went, but they had been dealing with her all her life and knew the difficulties in it. They understood my decision was one based on what I felt was best for myself and my children, not trying to hurt her or take something from her. They understood that I still cared about her, and I would do anything I could to make her better. It was just not possible to do so in the environment I was in. Little bit of a warning though. Just don't look for them to shun their son/brother/uncle/etc. because you've chosen to end things. And remember, it's not about choosing sides. There are no sides in this. It's simply about trying to do what's best for you and your family.

I have invested a third of my life into this relationship. My entire adult life. Failure is something that I grew up believing was the enemy. Admitting defeat was a problem to avoid at all costs. I am thinking though, that staying is more an admission of defeat than leaving; but there is always going to be that lingering, nagging question of what if I gave him another chance, and he took it? What if this was the time he would have actuallly changed?

It's not failure. It's not defeat. This is not something that you can change on your own. It requires your husband change as well, and if he's not willing to do that, there's nothing else you can do. Failing at an impossible task is not failure. Retreat is not the same thing as surrender. You are simply removing yourself from a situation that you can not possible be successful in.

Just remember:  If you are only ever willing remain where you are, that's the only place you will ever be.

[momtario]

Thank you, Rise for your very validating post.

I've been waiting so long for the roller coaster to stop so I can exit safely, but I think it's going to come to a duck-and-roll and hoping for the best.

I did take one major step today, and I told my real life friend (who is married to my other real life friend) that I am thinking of moving out and why. Her first response was that she didn't think he would let me leave. I told her I knew he wouldn't just let me leave, but that I was prepared for it.

I also told her it wasn't set in stone, but it is looking like one of the options on an ever-shrinking list.

I also told her what happened last week with D8 and the dog.

Even with the many, many things I have told you guys and have not told her, she did agree that maybe a break sounded reasonable, after I told her he slapped D8.

I mostly told her so that I would have to look someone in the actual face, on a regular basis, knowing they know, and hopefully that, as much as anything, will give me the strength to move forward. Because this is going to take a lot of strength that I don't lways feel like I have- after all, the whole point of a lot of things he has done, has been to point out how weak and vulnerable I am, and I suppose it's my fault that I bought into it and believed him.

[argyle]

Not your fault.
Repeated criticism is a great tool for breaking people - and works on practically anyone who isn't used to fighting back. Not knowing how to fight back - well - different environments give different strengths and weaknesses.
Reaching out is hard.  But - it really, really helps.

--Argyle

[Cardinals in Flight]

Hey Mom 
I don't have much advice, but I've been reading you and am rooting for you!
Here is a quote I really like, it helps me when I'm afraid or stuck...

Change happens when the pain of holding on becomes greater than the fear of letting go’.

Keep writing here, it will give you strength!
CiF

[momtario]

Thanks Argyle and NR.

On the topic of fighting back- I can't seem to help it lately; I have been... I think I am finally getting in touch with my anger.

I think it might be helping my situation as well. At least today. Admittedly, last week it didn't help anyone, so there are flaws, but today, I got some results. Not an apology, and I did get called a pain in the @$$, but apparently using the word "impasse" while "discussing" birth control, and how I feel we need it and he still feels we don't, had a positive effect.

I'm trying not to let the success go to my head, and change my mind again.