Trying to embrace indifference, why isn't it working?

[Think About It...]

I wanted closure too.  I told my ex that I deserved communication after the 2 years we had spent together.  I never got it.  I got a few short emails, but no face to face communication where I could ask questions.  The only thing I can figure now, 7 mos out, is he didn't want communication because he didn't have answers for me.  How can he help me understand when he doesn't even understand himself?  It's so unfair.  Don't beat yourself up over the affair and feel like you deserve all this pain for your part in it.  I did that 6 yrs ago with someone that I also believed in.  The affair was wrong, but I truly loved this man and believed he was a victim in the marriage.  The only victims were his wife and I.  I still feel guilty at times but I think I've served my sentence.  Especially with this last BPDbf.  Keep plugging forward.  And practice forgiveness on yourself.  You were a victim to a selfish man that fed you BS to serve his needs.  You deserve better. 

[dah1029]

I wanted closure too.  I told my ex that I deserved communication after the 2 years we had spent together.  I never got it.  I got a few short emails, but no face to face communication where I could ask questions.  The only thing I can figure now, 7 mos out, is he didn't want communication because he didn't have answers for me.  How can he help me understand when he doesn't even understand himself?  It's so unfair.  Don't beat yourself up over the affair and feel like you deserve all this pain for your part in it.  I did that 6 yrs ago with someone that I also believed in.  The affair was wrong, but I truly loved this man and believed he was a victim in the marriage.  The only victims were his wife and I.  I still feel guilty at times but I think I've served my sentence.  Especially with this last BPDbf.  Keep plugging forward.  And practice forgiveness on yourself.  You were a victim to a selfish man that fed you BS to serve his needs.  You deserve better. 

[tailspin]

"Do I tell him one more time that it's completely over, there is no future, EVER, or do I let it go and keep distancing myself and continue to be aloof?"

Faith, in my experience talking to them again takes you back to square one.  Aloof really isn't the goal in the beginning.  For me the goal was strength in the form of no contact, which you do for yourself so you can heal.  It stops becoming about him at this point because your attentions turn away from him and onto you.  No contact is done without consideration for the way it may, or may not make him feel. 

This will suck and hurt and then suck again.  However, it is the beginning of taking your life back and establishing healthy boundaries, which is why it feels so wrong at first.  We aren't used to healthy boundaries.  It really will feel liberating in time, and as his memory fades, you will be able to look back at that moment and be proud because it was the start of your brand new life.

[dah1029]

I agree about the boundaries.  It's about protecting you, not punishing him.  We've spent so much of our energy engulfed in their needs, their dramas, their supposed victimization by others, that we forgot to keep an eye on our own needs.  It's time to put a barrier around you.  Sometimes I visualize it as a stockade fence.  Other times I picture myself encased in a glass dome.  I can see what's going on, but the poison can't get through the glass. 

No need to talk to him.  There's nothing left for him to say.  Nothing that you want to hear.  It's just all BS that comes out of his mouth. 

[SHolloway]

dah1029, thank you for responding, it's nice to hear from you! 

I appreciate your support of me, I have spent a lot of time feeling horrible about the affair.  His wife and I actually wrote each other letters, hers came to me first, where she actually forgave me and said that their marriage was stronger now than ever, not exactly what he told me! He told me he hoped I'd be there someday if he came knocking on my door with a ring for me.   

I feel so badly about what I did to her (I told her that in my letter to her) and I have felt guilty many times that I know so much more about him than she does; I'm sure I don't know everything but still much more than her.  She doesn't know about the multiple affairs and his promiscuous ways, she only has knowledge of his affair with me, she thinks I was the first.  She also has no knowledge that I know of that he comes prowling around saying the things he still says to me.  I can only hope and pray that he will eventually be honest in his therapy sessions with her and will come clean, or the therapist will be sharp and be able to see his BPD characteristics.  I hope that if she really is wanting to be more loving and caring that he's going to do the right thing for her sake and make himself healthy for her.

Lack of closure seems to be a common characteristic with these people.  I do believe that closure has to come from us, we have to give ourselves that gift. I didn't receive the closure I needed from our conversations, I thought I had at one time but it turned out to be yet another example of him telling me what I needed to hear so he could keep me capitivated and still there for him when he decided he needed me.

Thank you tailspin and dah1029, I totally agree about no more conversations, even if I'm telling him it's truly over.  I actually thought that after I posted.  After I reread I realized how I would be backpeddling, that I'm getting stronger and more distant day by day, why would I want to ruin that.  I think the hardest part of these kinds of relationships is not getting over the feelings so much but getting over the humiliation and rejection.  I actually don't know what I feel for him anymore, but each time I think about this I keep going back to the same questions we all are, why wasn't I enough?  Why did you reject me?  I'm sure we all are feeling the same way. I think I was looking to feel validated by having him know I don't want HIM anymore, then he could feel what I've felt!

Thanks everyone! 

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[upsidedown]

SHolloway, as I read your post I found myself drawing so many parallels to my situation.  I also work with mine, have those same feelings and am trying to cope the same way you are.  I was also the love of his life (like yours, he still tells me I am).  I also have to admit to the hold he has on me.  I was the one to leave the relationship, as I knew it wasn't healthy.  Like you, I know I will never go back, but I struggle on a daily basis, just as you do.  I downloaded a couple of books to my iPod about BPD & Covert-Aggressive Manipulators.  I've read through them a couple of times, and I pick those up when I am feeling weak.  It helps to be reminded that very few people with BPD ever seek help or even admit they have a problem.  I feel your pain and wish I could give you something more to hold onto.  I just keep thinking eventually it'll get easier.  Here's wishing you peace, strength & happiness.

[tailspin]

You are really welcome!  It helps so much to share our stories.  It seems to me that you have been gracious in the way you have handled yourself and you should be proud of that.  Communicating your regret for your part in the affair to his wife took alot of guts and you have done all you can to ease her pain.  The rest of the story is "theirs" to tell; let go of wondering how it will all work out for them.

We spent so much time stuck in their spider web of validation and I know what you mean about seeking it from him; we would all get a great deal of satisfaction if they knew we didn't want them anymore either.  Here's the truth though:  he doesn't care.  Attempts at validation are a waste of our time because the hallmark of this illness is arrested emotional development.  It's like thinking a 6 year old would care if they knew what we think...and they don't.

Forgive yourself for the affair.  I forgive you for the affair; you are human and all humans make mistakes.  It's ok.  You are a good person and you deserve to love a man who will love you in return.  Take care of yourself and let him find you  

[luckystrikes]

hi f2h,

"You said several things that stuck out to me and I will definitely be working on easing up on myself as of now.  The first one being that four months is not that long.  I keep thinking that I have to get through this more quickly and that I should be able to be putting this behind me by now.  I have accepted that it's over and that we will never be together again but I beat myself up that I still miss him, still hope that he will seek me out even though I don't respond the way I'm sure he wishes I would, and I still feel this deep connection, not a healthy one.  I've read that it takes half the time of your relationship (a normal one) to totally heal, I'm sure in our cases it takes much longer.  I think I get bothered that I could still be dealing with this for 8 more months or more but I must allow this process to play out and not rush it."

i think a lot of us feel that pressure to "get over them". but then again, i think its more a matter of "getting over IT" than "them". i think most of us, are usually most of the way, intellectually, in terms of over THEM. but when i say four months isnt, long i dont just mean its "not that long", to me, i think, its really very early. i was completely non functional for three months, maybe four. on top of it, you have to be around him and interact. i wouldnt expect much healing to be done at all when thats the case. i think you should feel fairly decent about where you are. you may want the attention on some level, but youre not really "playing the game". thats obviously a good sign. and yes, not to discourage you, but for the most part, id tell members expect at least a year for recovery. i mentioned im about a a year and a month and a half out now. still think about my ex, and all of this every day. still arent where id like to be, or even close, as far as getting my life back together. but im "over" my ex. i say all this because theres at least three dynamics at play. the connection to a pwBPD, while its not sustainable, necessarily runs very very deep. i think findingmyselfagain used the term "dark soul mate". i think thats pretty apt. then theres the traumatic nature of the relationship itself, and the breakup. and then on top of that, it rips open all kinds of wounds you didnt even know were there or recognize. i liken the whole process to trial, or baptism by fire. i mentioned id likely been with a few borderlines. i always relate the fact that after the third, i continued for six years to have haunting dreams about her, even for the three years i was with my ex. the girl i dreamed about for six years, i was with for only three months. it was quite a mystery to me, since i was long over her. what i didnt realize is i never really addressed the trauma of it all, only numbed myself out for the time. when my ex and i broke up, she replaced the three month girl in the dreams. but then i learned the 'dreams' are a common symptom of all this. after a few months im happy to report the dreams stopped completely so on some level, that should also speak to the usefulness you can get out of this board. the more you learn about the disorder, the more you can depersonalize the actions, and free yourself of a lot of the troubling emotions. just be patient and kind to yourself. there are plenty of members that are on here, having an excruciating time a year later.

"I have heard several times now from your post and others that he wasn't lying, that people with this disorder truly do mean what they say in the moment, that feelings are fact to them, that brings some peace even though I know they can't hold onto those emotions.  It makes it a little less humiliating that I wasn't a total fool in this, that he really did mean it then, he just doesn't feel it like he once did anymore."

i liken it to brainwashing. like i said, the more you learn, the more you can depersonalize. youll see a lot of varying opinions on whether or not pwBPD feel love, agonizing over what was "real" and what wasn't "real", etc. what it comes down to to me, is whatever they felt, whatever they meant, was not sustainable. its not just us. its how they think and feel about themselves, too. they just cant maintain a 'sense' of things. i think over time, youll sort it all out for yourself, and come to peace/terms. some people say "none of it was real" to which i say well wait a minute, what about all the heart to heart close conversations and things shared? what wasnt real about that? they wanted it as badly if not more than us. its not that they didnt want it anymore. they couldnt maintain it. they couldnt have it. i would almost say, as opposed to "he just doesnt feel like he once did anymore", that hes not the same person anymore, either. he was attached to you, and presumably took on a lot of your identity. thats gone. therefore, again, presumably, his sense of self is totally unstable at best. mind boggling as it might be, thats a less painful way to see it in my opinion. you didnt 'lose' to him, you both lost to the disorder.

"The red flags are what scare me maybe most of all.  Twice now in my life I've had strong gut feelings that these relationships were wrong for me! I remember walking down the isle to my ex-husband and thinking, what the hell am I doing? I had the same gut feeling prior to this relationship beginning.  I knew his history, I had known him for ten years and yet I still allowed myself to get involved knowingly.  I did see the red flags in both cases. That concerns me for the future, however I will say that I've never been more aware in my entire life, it's like I've woken up from a fog, I'm no longer mutt ling my way through anymore.  I would rather live alone the rest of my life than to ever settle again!"

ah, the gut feeling. its amazing, when it comes to these relationships, our guts become psychics. when my ex and i broke up, i almost immediately had a gut feeling there was another guy waiting in the wings, even though there was absolutely no evidence. she threw him in my face a couple days later. i think weve gotta fix whatever keeps our guts from registering with our heads and hearts i dont want to scare you, but you SHOULD be concerned for the future. i am making, more or less, precisely the same mistake, as we speak. you mention preferring to live alone than settle again. i like to think of us as learning to be "on our own" as opposed to alone. were learning, finally, to spend time with ourselves, occupy and entertain ourselves, like and love ourselves, support ourselves, and build ourselves back up. breaking the patterns wont come easily, and it does have to be practiced. i want to reiterate, i think being with a person with a PD once greatly increases your odds of another. youve had two. pattern started. and again, i would not be at all surprised if you meet more, most of us are attracted to those types, and vice versa. they seem to come out of the wood work. the problem for me is that i could draw you a blueprint of normal and healthy, as far as life style choices, and relationships, but ive never been able to maintain my own standards. i assume you can relate. the way that it was put to me really sunk in. essentially, a lot of the work in changing that, is to heal, to love yourself, to do things for yourself, things that make you feel love, not just "good". to some extent, reteach yourself what "love" is, even intellectually you know. our brains identify unhealthy things as "love". when you get in the practice of this, it will strengthen your boundaries. you will not be willing to tolerate any kind of abuse. you will make better choices. you will know consciously and unconsciously that you deserve better, and precisely what it is you deserve. to put it simply, if you put yourself 'up there', then the mind will communicate "why would i want to go 'down there'"? we made a lot of willing sacrifices to feel/be loved. we told ourselves unconsciously we didnt deserve better. that this was how love worked. time to appreciate ourselves, and find someone who can reciprocate.

"Thank you for not judging me, that is something I'm having a hard time forgiving myself for.  I will get there, it's part of the process."

i assure you, we pretty much all did things were ashamed of, that we feel "wasnt us". we certainly all compromised our values. we got sucked into a tornado. although we should have known better than to walk right up to it and expect not to. fortunately we survived, and now we can know and hold ourselves to that standard. since complete, full, mature adult love is, in my opinion impossible for a pwBPD to dispense, there is an element, perhaps, to winning the "unattainable get", as someone put it to me.

"I have another question for you.  I feel certain that he thinks he can still woo me back someday if necessary.  I have told him it's over between us, but his actions, coming around and trying to be near me and talk to me about things familiar, tell me that he believes he can put his player ways into action yet again and that I'll always be available.  Do I tell him one more time that it's completely over, there is no future, EVER, or do I let it go and keep distancing myself and continue to be aloof?  I'd love to hear what you think about this and anyone who would like to comment.  These are the issues that are so hard to know how to gauge."

its possible that youre demonstrating this to him. when i say possible, im not saying for certain, i wouldnt have any idea. from what you portray, i dont see you demonstrating it. its hard to put my finger on, but i think theres an element of tolerating his behavior, still, which, if im right, is understandable. but i think a person who didnt behave as we do, was in your situation, would pretty much cut him off, save for completely professional, short and polite correspondence when there must be. im putting myself in your shoes, and over the years ive gotten very used to (and fairly good at) the push/pull game. theres the element, to some extent, of behaving coldly toward them, and not only hoping for, but in order to keep their attempts up. again, thats understandable as well. the person is like a drug. you may learn to not take the drugs, but if youre stuck in the same room as them...

so basically, it may not even be possible for you to behave differently. or you may change your behavior, but still hope for his attention. thats likely, in my opinion, not breakable, until youre able to move and get away from him. thats why people push NC so hard. any exposure is toxic and keeps us stuck. its pretty difficult for healing to take place. as far as your specific question goes, from what youve said, youve already told him that theres no chance. he does not seem to believe you. theres no reason to tell him again, unless the situation really called for it. but if you work together, for him to discuss this with you is generally unprofessional to begin with. thats why i stress nothing but short, polite, professional.

again, just dont beat yourself up, when it comes to the choice you made, being with him at all, not being "further along", or still wanting his attention. the bond is intense, and it completely overrides our logic, and even our survival instinct. thats powerful stuff.

[SHolloway]

Welcome upsidedown!  Hi! I'm glad that you are here with us.  I would really like to have the names of the books you are reading, I too like to have things to refer to, I'm trying to learn as much as possible.  I truly believe that knowledge is power and that we will come out of these experiences healthier people at the end of all of this pain.  Like you, I struggle so much with this hold he has on me.  I guess it is because he's still there everyday, it will have to get easier when I no longer see him.  A few days ago he was coming around me a lot again, striking up conversations, etc., now it seems we're back in an avoidance phase.  He does this on a regular basis, weekly, I'll have one or two days where I turn around and there he is, then we will go two or three days where he avoids me like the plague.  I hate that it still bothers me and gets to me, like I've said before I'm not sure what I feel for him anymore, the pain clouds my feelings now, but I think the rejection and humiliation from these relationships are what plays the biggest number on us.  The manipulation and the pull they have on us is mind boggling! I hope that you will continue posting here with us, I'd like to hear more of your story if you'd like to share.  I too wish you peace and happiness.   

tailspin, you are just so wonderful! I look forward to what you will say next, you have such a good head on your shoulders.  Thank you for your forgiveness, you are truly a compassionate person.  I agree with you that he doesn't care what I do next.  He just wants to fill his need for looking like the man who still has "it" when he makes contact with me. Most likely other women are also on his radar, that has been his past script, the bottom line is people rarely change and his behaviors would suggest that's true.  I believe there is a good man out there for me and the first step to a healthier life is acknowledging the lessons to be learned, accepting that I'm a co-dependent personality and that there are   to be aware of from this moment on.  I definitely will no longer allow myself to believe that a man who is ultra charming and too good to be true will have much to offer me, this has been a pattern that hasn't worked for me.  I believe they are out there for all of us and we deserve their love! Thank you my friend, I'm so glad you are here! 

luckystrikes, thank you so much for your thoughtful insights.  I appreciate that you spend time sharing your experiences and thoughts with me, I truly am grateful.  I hope that you find peace in your life as well and that you look deep within about your current gf.  I read your story on another topic, you deserve to be happy too!  Be careful my friend.   

[dah1029]

Make sure you always look good.  And then ignore him.  He doesn't deserve your attention.  And act happy-- even if you have to fake it around him.  Laugh, talk about activities going on, talk about a new man you just met at a  coffee shop that asked to meet up with you sometime, blah blah blah.  Give him the bite me attitude.  And if he wants to "talk", you're just too busy.  So much going on.  So many committments.  Maybe we can catch up another time ok?  And make sure you wear a pretty perfume that lingers after you walk away.

[SHolloway]

dah1029, you said exactly what my best friend always tells me!  "Smile, act happy, make him regret this."  He always absolutely loved my perfume, he would tell me he could smell me in the halls and he would be in a fog thinking about me all day then.  I can tell you that it's probably not nice but I love walking by him, ignoring him but letting him take a whiff of me.  I am working hard at the being detached in my conversations with him too.  The other day he stopped me in the hall and told me about something he and his son did the other day which involved me in the topic.  I smiled, said "that's nice" and kept moving.  Also, a few days ago he came to find me and told me that I looked beautiful, mentioned twice I was wearing his favorite shirt and that I still make his heart flutter when he sees me.  I said thank you very shortly, acted distracted like I was very busy and too important for a delay in my schedule and ended the conversation. That's why now we're in the "avoidance" phase again, he didn't get the reactions he wanted from me so now he thinks he's punishing me.  It's crazy the lengths we have to go to in order to start feeling worthy again, but it's absolutely necessary to getting sanity back, at least that's the way I feel about it.  Thanks dah! 

[upsidedown]

Faith you are a wonderful, wise, strong woman. I get the contact avoidance dance too and admit it is unnerving to turn around and see him standing there. A bit about what lead me here. He pursued me relentlessly and I resisted because of a gut-level hunch that something about him wasn't right. He was divorced a few months into the pursuit and I caved a few months later. We moved into a new apartment together a month or two later. That's when the rages started over the most innocuous things. By this time I was deeply in love and he was so sweet, fun and loving most of the time that I ignored the red flags. It got worse, to the point that I couldn't have even the most non-threatening conversation without him losing it and talking me around in circles so I left. Then he started recycling me. I finally bit when he proposed a few months later. Everything was wonderful for the first month or so except that I noticed he was emotionally blackmailing his young adult children. When I expressed my disapproval over this he told me it was none of my business. I disagree--if he could do that to them what would he eventually do to me? Not to mention it's just downright wrong! I began to suspect a mental illness so I started reading articles online and trying the tactics they recommended. The less assertive I was the more he tried to "Gaslight" me. I was morbidly fascinated by this and admit to some manipulation of him, of which I'm now ashamed, having learned that he has the emotional maturity of a child.  Oh well, we've all done things we're not proud of and if we learn from them and grow enough not to repeat them we're doing better than most. So I left in mid-February and am trying to heal and struggling with permanent detachment. No way will I ever go back, but I feel weak more often than I feel strong. It's disheartening to read that I could be 3/4 the length of the relationship (a year and a half) just getting over it. One day at a time, one foot in front of the other. So, back to you:  the first book I read was "In Sheeps Clothing" and describes personalities falling on the continuum between Narcissist and Psychopath. This was a tough read because it makes you feel as if 'Something Evil This Way Comes'. But, it was what convinced me I needed to leave and for that alone it was valuable. The other is "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and is about BPD. It humanized my exBPDbf again which helped me understand enough to start healing. I was talking with a friend the other day and beating myself up for not being educated about people this late in life and she told me no one educates themselves about any disease or disorder until it strikes them or someone close to them. I was able to stop beating myself up for letting this man take advantage of me and channel my energy toward more constructive healing. Thank you for your story. It helps me so much to read your insights and those of the people that respond, as it's my situation to a T. I envy you your strength and poise. I will think of you next time I turn and he is there. May you find someone truly worthy of the wonderful person you are.

[SHolloway]

upsidedown, thank you for your nice words.  I think that we truly do have many parallels to our stories, you sound a lot like me in the way you deal with situations.  I'm so happy you are here and we can post back and forth and share our stories.   

I too am a reader, when I don't understand something I start going online and investigating things to death to find the answers to solve.  I too began online searching, I'm not sure why it took me so long, I think I lived in the denial phase for a long time.  It was after a number of events with him where I would feel we were finally in a good place after our break-up and then he would proceed to throw me to the curb right after that I finally faced the fact that perhaps there was more to this then just a selfish man.  Mental illness runs in his family, I've mentioned a few times on here that his grown son is severely bipolar. I guess I was ready to absorb it all when I was ready.  So I began investigating, just like you did and just like you also I was torn between being fascinated by this concept and being shocked and overwhelmed that this odd behavior finally had a name.  I had done a little research back a year ago in regards to my ex-husband; he had done many cruel things to my kids and I and I wanted to understand what it might be.  Turns out, my ex-husband most certainly is BPD/narcissistic, so I think that with my most recent relationship I was afraid to face the facts because then what would that mean about me.  It means I'm co-dependent and that's where I'm at in my own therapy and healing process, working on why I've made these choices and why I am who I am...my own mother who most likely is BPD as well.  My therapist believes I'm choosing men that are my mother because I have unresolved issues that I'm subconsciously trying to resolve through the men I choose.  I'm like you, all of this fascinates me to a degree even though it's also an incredible burden.

I'm further amazed how similar our love stories are.  I too tried hard to resist my ex for many years.  We knew each other ten years before I finally caved and made it official.  He said to me when we were finally together, I chased you for years, why finally now?  That's the million dollar question, why did I finally give in when I had been so strong for so long?  I knew what he was like, he's a womanizer and yet I just couldn't resist it any longer.  He said all the right things (players always do), was sweet, loving toward me, we had fun and laughed all the time, he was my best friend, we had an incredible emotional and physical connection, etc.  But like you I too ignored the red flags that kept popping up.  I've always had a strong intuition and yet many times in my life I've ignored that, especially with men and most especially this relationship more than any other.  I think that in my case and you can tell me if you did this as well, I kept lowering my standards as the relationship progressed.  I would say things to myself like, "oh he's so busy, that's why he had to hang up so quickly even though we only talked 10 minutes today", or, "he only stayed an hour today, but that's ok, it's better than nothing, he really does love me."  As time went on I did this more and more because I can only speculate that I too was afraid of losing him, I guess I feared abandonment myself.  It makes me angry to think that I'd be that weak because in every other area of my life I've always been confident and strong and I truly am happy on my own, or I was before this relationship.  There is a great line from one of my favorite movies, "Something's Gotta Give".  Diane Keaton plays the lead and she says to Jack Nicholson (who is definitely a carbon copy of my ex in this movie), "the life I had before you, I knew how to do that.  I could do that forever, I don't know how to do this."  She has just gone out to dinner after spending a week with him and falling in love and she sees him out with another woman.  She's devastated of course because she thought he was in love with her as well.  Sound familiar?

I'm going to get those books you mentioned, I've heard of both of them, "Walking on Eggshells" is mentioned on this site I believe also.  Thank you for recommending them, we both must keep reading!    I hope you keep posting, I really see how much we have in common, you too have incredible strength, don't forget that!  We both deserve to have a wonderful man and I believe that's out there for us! 

[daybreak]

Faith; regarding the affair thing...I did that too...beat myself up and still do at times. I though I was deeply spiritual and such would have been virtually impossible for me...and to top it off, I'm a counselor.  Mine was my ex high school girl friend from many years ago...that was part of the "draw," but I've come to accept that the power of a BPD love affair is so overwhelming that anyone, and I mean anyone can be caught in the snare.

I'm two years out and even using all the techniques I'm familiar with...recovering has been one of the most major challenges of my life...and yes I get better and better, some days, some hours are not so good, but overall I am moving past it...perhaps will never completely get over it.  Yesterday was a tough day and night because I opened photos on my new computer from three years ago (she had emailed me) that the old computer would not open.  It was of a party she was at...she looked smashing...and to top it off there was the guy there, always in close proximity to her, that I'm fairly confident she has been in another affair with.  When she related who all was there (just a small group) she left him out...always the direct lies or those of omission.

The photos sent me into a depressed tailspin...and I even emailed her.  The difference in the past and now is that I can work through the "lows" in a day or so...and return to the healing track I'm on.  I now return to these boards when I'm really needing a dose of reality, or just feeling a bit down.  When you read the stories and enlightened comments of so many caring people, it helps to put the whole experience into perspective.  This thread has some wonderful, insightful comments and has helped me today too.  Good luck my friend!

[SHolloway]

daybreak, your message couldn't have come at a better time.  Today is not a good day for me.  I'm very emotional and wishing like anything I could get beyond the unhealthy connections I feel in my head for him.  I mentioned over and over that I'm not even sure what I feel anymore, I don't want to ever be back in a relationship with him but the manipulation has played a huge number on me.  I'm a fairly positive and normal person in all other aspects of my life but his mind games are driving me mad!  I can't stand that we're in a phase now where he's avoiding me, after coming out of a phase where he was chasing and adoring me, it makes me sick to my stomach that it bothers me, you would think after all he's put me through I'd be thankful when he avoids me but the sickness of these relationships makes it impossible at times to make a clean break.  I also hold a lot of guilt that I know so much about his past not only with me but with countless other women he's been with and his wife believes in him and doesn't know about all that.  I know I'm not responsible for her journey, believe me she has her own issues, but it's hard thinking about the pain and humiliation he's caused both of us and she only knows the half of it.  I too am a deeply spiritual person, God is my reason for getting through this and I believe He's led me here to find answers and to support my healing.  It's so comforting to know that there are others who understand and truly care.  I'm really thankful that you decided to return for awhile, you are very kind. Thanks, you sound like a good person.    

[dah1029]

We'll all get there together.  I'm going out tonight with some friends.  I decided to join match.com the other night.  I'm suppose to meet someone tomorrow.  He sounds fun on the phone and we have some common friends but don't know eachother.  It's been 7 mos since my split and I feel like I need to move forward.  I want to make plans with someone.  Have fun on wkds with dates.  I also have all my platonic male and female friends.  But I'm throwing myself back in the pond.  Gonna try to  move forward. 

Oh, here's the best, this guy I'm suppose to meet, he thinks his exgf was a BPD !  I cracked up at his stories.  He said he had no idea what the problem was but started investigating Bipolar Disorder.  Then traveled to the BPD info sites.  Then she looked at the history in the computer to see what he was looking at and went off on him.  Stole passwords, intruded into his privacy, stalked him, locked up his facebook site with a password so now he can't use it and can't get access to his pics on there.  I just had to laugh. 

[SHolloway]

Hi dah, good for you going out!  I hope you have lots of fun!  That's funny about his exgf, at least you will have lots to talk about right?  I want to feel ready for that again, not there yet. I think when I move this summer I'll definitely be ready.  I'm moving back to where I grew up and for some reason I keep thinking about my high school sweetheart a lot these days.  He was good to me and very cute too, hmmm, you never know... 

Today my exBPDbf's aunt called to talk to me, she is like a mother to him and she and I actually became very close.  His wife doesn't know that we are close friends now.  Yet another secret.  She kept talking about what a gift we had been to each other and without going into detail because she doesn't know about this disorder or how he's treated me throughout all of this, I said very kindly that it's been a long, hurtful process and that I wasn't treated as kindly as I deserved during this.  I told her I was doing great, moving on, that we would never be together nor was it ever meant to be between us (she wanted us to be together very badly because she knew what their marriage had been like), I wanted so badly to tell her what an ***hole he is but I kept my dignity.  I truly didn't know how to handle the call and she caught me on a bad day, I'm very emotional today.  How should I have handled it?  I don't want to be disloyal to their relationship, like I said he's like a son to her but I'm not about to lie for him either and pretend that I still view him as a blessing and a gift!    Anyone have thoughts on this or had a similar experience?

dah, have fun, you deserve it!  Look drop dead gorgeous, maybe you will run into your ex! 

[tailspin]

Hey everyone!

This is such a liberating thread    and I wanted to share one more lesson with everyone.  Indifference comes with freedom and freedom comes with forgiveness.  This is why indifference is so coveted; it is the holy grail of these relationships because it takes tremendous courage to forgive.

You don't have to forgive everything.  I forgave him from making me feel like I didn't matter; because I did that to myself.  I forgave him for having feelings that he couldn't control; because he is mentally ill.  And I forgave him for wanting me to love him because...honestly, who wouldn't want me to love them?  

dah1029 I hope you have a fabulous date; he is a lucky man.

Faith...please believe and know that God has other plans for you.  Trust that he knows what is in your heart because He does.  Give your troubles to Him and have faith...because He forgives and loves you as do we all.

[SHolloway]

Hi tailspin,  I think your message is the perfect ending to this post.  Forgiveness is the answer to everything, it's difficult to get there, but I know that it truly means freedom.  I believe as you do that God has different plans for all of us, as long as we have faith in Him.  It's one of the reasons I chose the name faith, my faith is what brings me the most peace.  Thank you to all of you for your inspiring and loving posts on this topic; I have found so much on this site in the way of support, knowledge and understanding.  I will keep checking in on other topics and hope that I will see all of you.  Love to all of you! faith