D8 acting narcissistic- normal?

[Think About It...]

 Hi! I am just wondering how much of this is normal, age appropriate behaviour, and how much I should be concerned about.
Background info- stbx has NPD, and is frequently targeting D8. We also have D5, and D-almost3.

D8 is recently behaving toward D5 with the exact same behaviour she gets from her father. Much of this is modelling learned "coping mechanisms" if you can even refer to bullying as a coping mechanism. I do, however, remember myself and my brothers acting similarly toward eachother, and while each of us ended up codependent and in abusive r/s's, only one of us carried even a hint of narcissism into adulthood (oldest).

How much narcissism can you expect from an 8 year old? Should I be concerned, or should I just continue with limits? I have contacted a local free counselling service for children, but haven't heard back, and I heard that unless a child is at high risk of harming others, the waiting list can be long.

She has also started withdrawing from several activities at school, and I am really getting concerned about her. I'm hoping to get her in for therapy before I divorce her father, because given the circumstances, she is likely to blame herself more than normal, and not believe anyone who tells her it isn't her fault.

The main issues are constant rivalry, jealousy, and criticism. She gets time outs from me, but inconsistent "discipline" from her father (occasionally crosses the line into abuse- reason for detaching and eventually leaving).

All thoughts are more than welcome. thanks.

[momtario]

 Hi! I am just wondering how much of this is normal, age appropriate behaviour, and how much I should be concerned about.
Background info- stbx has NPD, and is frequently targeting D8. We also have D5, and D-almost3.

D8 is recently behaving toward D5 with the exact same behaviour she gets from her father. Much of this is modelling learned "coping mechanisms" if you can even refer to bullying as a coping mechanism. I do, however, remember myself and my brothers acting similarly toward eachother, and while each of us ended up codependent and in abusive r/s's, only one of us carried even a hint of narcissism into adulthood (oldest).

How much narcissism can you expect from an 8 year old? Should I be concerned, or should I just continue with limits? I have contacted a local free counselling service for children, but haven't heard back, and I heard that unless a child is at high risk of harming others, the waiting list can be long.

She has also started withdrawing from several activities at school, and I am really getting concerned about her. I'm hoping to get her in for therapy before I divorce her father, because given the circumstances, she is likely to blame herself more than normal, and not believe anyone who tells her it isn't her fault.

The main issues are constant rivalry, jealousy, and criticism. She gets time outs from me, but inconsistent "discipline" from her father (occasionally crosses the line into abuse- reason for detaching and eventually leaving).

All thoughts are more than welcome. thanks.

[Matt]

Are you still living together, or do you have your own place?  How often are the kids with you, and how often with their father?

I think getting her into counseling is a good idea when you can.

[momtario]

We are still living together right now; I am only in the early planning stages of leaving. Counselling is definitely the plan; first for her, as she is the one showing signs of being seriously affected by everything, hopefully I can get her moved to the high priority list; then, as a lesser priority, mostly to help her cope I am going to get D5 in as well, even though she is very happy-go-lucky.

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[tog]

When you say she's displaying narcissism, what do you mean?

It's normal for kids to be self-centered, but not necessarily normal for them to think that they are better than everyone else, entitled to special treatment or automatic compliance with demands, etc. Or to see themselves as on par with adults, that would be a bad.

My FSS12 has a uNPD/BPD mom. I see him flip back and forth between her behaviors and more typical behaviors. For example, he will make excuses and blame others when he makes mistakes or gets in trouble. To some degree, that's normal. But I have seen him completely convinced that someone else was to blame for something that he did and only be able to see that it's his fault when it's proven so.  He lies (often at his mother's request) quite convincingly.

At other times, he seems very caring and thoughtful, has empathy, wants to be helpful, wants to be please and show "character". I think he's kind of at a crossroads...will he go on to develop more PD traits or will he find a different path. 

I think for young kids with one parent modeling unhealthy behavior and one modeling more healthy behavior, it must be very confusing.

[Matt]

Maybe one short-term strategy could be, to spend as much one-on-one time as possible with D8 - not necessarily talking about big stuff, just taking her to the grocery store with you, or whatever.  Get her to help with meals or in the yard, help her with her homework - anything that will put you in the same physical space with each other.

Several reasons I suggest this.  One is, when you are with her she isn't with her dad, and his influence will be a little less.

Also, she will have more opportunities to talk to you, if she wants to.  Or even if she doesn't, she'll still have plenty of access, and that may be comforting to her.  Kids' top need is a feeling of security and she will get that from being together with you.

And doing things side by side together strengthens your bond, which may be tested over the next few months.  The closer you are to her, the harder it will be for your husband to alienate her from you.