What should we do with the camper

[Think About It...]

We bought a camper last summer.  H really wanted a camper and kept bugging me to go look at them.  I agreed that if we sold the boat, we could get a camper.  We looked at them one day and he threw a fit, because we couldn't agree on one, etc, as always.  Came home shouting forget about it! and the usual stuff every time he doesn't get his way right away.  Later that day I found a camper just like the one he liked best online for 3 or 4,000 less, and we wound up ordering it.  We used it about 4 times.  He totally guilt tripped me on selling the boat, saying I sold our memories, he wanted to keep it too, etc.  He complains to everyone that we "never use the camper" and has been bugging me to park it somewhere permanently.  I have explained to him that I moreso like the idea of traveling to different places with it when we can, rather than just being in one spot, which might get boring.  I also wasn't a huge fan of the camper idea from the beginning, thought of it more as something we might do later in life after the kids were older or maybe moved out.  I'd rather just take trips, but H is anti-flying and his drinking prohibits long driving trips.  Anyhow, he has been bugging me again recently, most recently this weekend about where we will put the camper.  He said someone has a plot of land for sale for like $130K and it has subplots we could rent out to other campers and make our money back.  I said that would take a while, and it's not guaranteed.  And I said I keep telling you that I don't want more debt, and you keep asking me to incur more debt.  He then actually said that he knows I really stress out about that stuff, and that he's not asking me to go buy it tomorrow, but to consider it.  Then he called a counsing who said we could put it on his 7 acres for free.  I said, ok, we could try that.  But then he started changing his mind, saying he's not that excited about it, because there isn't really anyting to do around there but a playground.   I said we could try it.  And we planned to go Sat. morning  to check it out.  Then like two hours ago he texted me saying he has been checking aroundand the camper would sell for so much.  I haven't replied, because I don't know what to say.  In a way I would love to sell the camper.  but then he is going to guilt me about that the same way, and very likely to say that now that we got rid of that, we should buy a piece of land with a cabin or some other new thing.  How should I reply to this test?  I was thinking "Should we sell it?"

[nowheretogo]

We bought a camper last summer.  H really wanted a camper and kept bugging me to go look at them.  I agreed that if we sold the boat, we could get a camper.  We looked at them one day and he threw a fit, because we couldn't agree on one, etc, as always.  Came home shouting forget about it! and the usual stuff every time he doesn't get his way right away.  Later that day I found a camper just like the one he liked best online for 3 or 4,000 less, and we wound up ordering it.  We used it about 4 times.  He totally guilt tripped me on selling the boat, saying I sold our memories, he wanted to keep it too, etc.  He complains to everyone that we "never use the camper" and has been bugging me to park it somewhere permanently.  I have explained to him that I moreso like the idea of traveling to different places with it when we can, rather than just being in one spot, which might get boring.  I also wasn't a huge fan of the camper idea from the beginning, thought of it more as something we might do later in life after the kids were older or maybe moved out.  I'd rather just take trips, but H is anti-flying and his drinking prohibits long driving trips.  Anyhow, he has been bugging me again recently, most recently this weekend about where we will put the camper.  He said someone has a plot of land for sale for like $130K and it has subplots we could rent out to other campers and make our money back.  I said that would take a while, and it's not guaranteed.  And I said I keep telling you that I don't want more debt, and you keep asking me to incur more debt.  He then actually said that he knows I really stress out about that stuff, and that he's not asking me to go buy it tomorrow, but to consider it.  Then he called a counsing who said we could put it on his 7 acres for free.  I said, ok, we could try that.  But then he started changing his mind, saying he's not that excited about it, because there isn't really anyting to do around there but a playground.   I said we could try it.  And we planned to go Sat. morning  to check it out.  Then like two hours ago he texted me saying he has been checking aroundand the camper would sell for so much.  I haven't replied, because I don't know what to say.  In a way I would love to sell the camper.  but then he is going to guilt me about that the same way, and very likely to say that now that we got rid of that, we should buy a piece of land with a cabin or some other new thing.  How should I reply to this test?  I was thinking "Should we sell it?"

[LoveNotWar]

Here's what I've been told about campers and boats...the two happiest days are the day you buy em and the day you sell em. 

We use our boat 2-3 times a week  in the warm months. Makes it worth it to me.

When I had a camper (pre-marriage) I didn't even use it once a month and maybe a couple weeks in the summer. The maintenance was a pain and I dumped it when I realized it was causing me more stress than joy.

Bottom line, is that camper giving you joy? 

[nowheretogo]

not really.  going places with H isn't really fun.  He is always barking orders, stressed about something, yelling at the kids, telling them no, yelling at me...it's easy for him to move on from that stuff and have fun fishing or drinking or whatever, but they ruin the trip for me.

[Steph]

 Wow, 

I dont remember reading about him drinking alot, tho maybe I just dont remember.

So, what about that? Alcoholic?

[LoveNotWar]

The trouble with traveling with a BPD spouse in a car, a camper even a plane is you can't take a time out, you are stuck. Sure can suck the joy out of what should be a great time!

[nowheretogo]

Yes, LoveNotWar, I have been stuck in a vehicle on trips before and it is AWFUL.  I one time wondered if we would all be alive when it was over.  Baby was like 4 mos, H screaming and banging his fist, windows up, not going anywhere...

Anyhow, I asked him about his text yesterday.  He said we can sell it.  WE can't agree on what to do with it and it's hard going places with D1.  Part of this may have been tactical to get a different reaction out of me, but I'm going to run with it.  It's more of a headache than anything else.  S6 likes it and will probably be a little upset if we do sell...he liked the boat, too.  And H likes to have leverage against me (see, Mommy did this sort of stuff).  Whatever.  Will keep you posted.

[jessicapuppy]

Hi there nowheretogo

Impulsiveness is a big part of BPD, and it sounds to me as if this is featuring with your other-half quite prominently.

How are you finding you implement boundaries, when this sort of behaviour is happening?

JP
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[nowheretogo]

I implement them very poorly.  Well, I am getting better at it.  At saying no.  Was especially bad at it in the beginning, but things have changed, and I don't feel the same obligations.  But I still struggle with saying no, or feeling like I"m not doing enough for him, etc.

[jessicapuppy]

Yes, I can totally understand how difficult it is to love someone and want them to be happy, but to stand by our boundaries and keep ourselves happier.  The thing is, you know that by giving up your boundaries it will affect you long-term, but by him getting his own way, it will only give him happiness short-term, and then he'll want something else.  The other thing worth noting, is that when he wants his own way, he is thinking nothing of you and how you are feeling, so bearing that in mind, why should you always bend to him?  
Often, boundary setting is good for him as well as you.  If you can agree, for example, that when he gets an impulse or urge to buy something expensive, that you both have to adhere to a period of time to reflect on it, rather than rushing out and buying it, then he may move onto something else when the urge passes.  If you show you are willing to stick to that rule, too, then he really has no way of blaming you.
I think the hardest part of this, is that he has to know that if he crosses those boundaries, then there will be consequences.  

As I can see you have a number of posts on here, I'm assuming you have read the links on this site regarding boundaries (please correct me if I'm wrong), so I thought you might like to have a read of this page, too.  There are some links on there that you might also find useful:

http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/the-broken-windows-theory-applied-to-boundaries-self-esteem-time-to-fix-your-windows/

JP
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[yeeter]

Here is my $.02.

I think you should put ALL decisions regarding mutual property on hold indefinitely.  Campers, business startups, paying off loans, etc etc.

Just let the money all pile up in your checking account (quit checking it, quit thinking about it)

And the same for any other decision (such as child care), unless its a forced decision (meaning you have no choice but to do something).

Just suspend it all, because right now its only going to continue to cause stress and grief for both of you.

Until you can figure out if you want to continue to work on this relationship or not.  And put in place some type of agreement between you on the ground rules for this continuation.

It should start with 'Stop making things worse'.  And maybe from there focus on finding some small ways/times for the two of you to build positive experience of interacting with each other.  Very simple, very small ways.

Until you can do this none of the rest is going to matter.

Do this for 6 months and then re-assess.  By then you will know if you like the guy or not, in the most basic of ways.  You are going to have to decide if you dislike 'him' - at his core as a person - or if you just dont like some of his recent behaviors.  Its not clear to me (and I empathize with you if you are stuck in a situation of having to face the reality, that you just dont like him as a person).

[nowheretogo]

Yeeter,

That is the most sensible thing I've heard yet.  This is kind of what I had tried to say in MC before, when H was coming.  That why fix these things, when the r/s is broken?  It almost feels like to H, these things (money issues) are the r/s.  That he has nothing if doesn't have these things or access to the money.  I am not a money freak.  I would be perfectly fine going make to my modest resident salary of just over two years ago and for all times before that.  I don't need or even really want "stuff".  I want happiness in the form of a loving family.  Really, that's all I ever wanted.